Your opinion on UFC?

ascanbe

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

In a boxing match he'd beat any mma fighter. In an mma fight he'd be on his back and tapping in under a minute. No question about it

I know nothing about mma, so have to ask the question.
Is there something in mma rules that would prevent Mayweather from utilising his skills as he would in a boxing match?
If not then there's a serious 'question about it'.
The mma fighter would have to get close to Mayweather in order to put him 'on his back' and have him 'tapping'.
With Mayweather's speed of movement/hand speed/skill he'd take the head off anyone who got close to him and was ill-equipped to deal with it.
Don't really see what Mayweather would have to fear from an mma fighter.

Arawn

ascanbe wrote: »

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

In a boxing match he'd beat any mma fighter. In an mma fight he'd be on his back and tapping in under a minute. No question about it

I know nothing about mma, so have to ask the question.
Is there something in mma rules that would prevent Mayweather from utilising his skills as he would in a boxing match?
If not then there's a serious 'question about it'.
The mma fighter would have to get close to Mayweather in order to put him 'on his back' and have him 'tapping'.
With Mayweather's speed of movement/hand speed/skill he'd take the head of anyone who got close to him and was ill-equipped to deal with it.
Don't really see what Mayweather would have to fear from an mma fighter.

Thats because you dont understand the mma game tbh

To me UFC is pretty boring by-and-large. I enjoy the older stuff and Pride but UFC is too grapply for my liking now. I can appreciate the skill and all involved but it just doesn't interest me that much. Same goes for an awful lot of top-level boxing to be honest.

ascanbe

ascanbe wrote: »

I know nothing about mma, so have to ask the question.
Is there something in mma rules that would prevent Mayweather from utilising his skills as he would in a boxing match?
If not then there's a serious 'question about it'.
The mma fighter would have to get close to Mayweather in order to put him 'on his back' and have him 'tapping'.
With Mayweather's speed of movement/hand speed/skill he'd take the head off anyone who got close to him and was ill-equipped to deal with it.
Don't really see what Mayweather would have to fear from an mma fighter.

A top-level MMA fighter would dodge a couple of Mayweather's punches far more than he'd be hit. Let's not compare with some lad you'll see in a hotel down the road. As well as that there'd be top-level lads who'd kick him straight out or with half a dozen kicks leave him barely able to stand.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Brook Lesner was a joke, the only reason he got big fights was due to his name and he was shown for the joke that he is in just about every fight. He made his money out of UFC and quit because he couldn't hack it, he was lucky in the fights he won.

One of the best ever? Certainly not. However he gets a far harder rap because of his past than he should. He had amazing physicality and a fantastic background in amateur. He was properly ill for a good while between a couple of fights with something that he was unlikely to ever be able to recover from fully given the sport he was in.

ascanbe

Arawn wrote: »

Thats because you dont understand the mma game tbh

I freely admit that.
But the person i responded to opined that an mma fighter, if in a ring under mma rules, would make short work of Mayweather.
I'm simply trying to understand how this would be.
Would he all of a sudden not have to worry about dealing with an all-time great boxer with frightening hand and foot speed?

ascanbe

ascanbe wrote: »

I freely admit that.
But the person i responded to opined that an mma fighter, if in a ring under mma rules, would make short work of Mayweather.
I'm simply trying to understand how this would be.
Would he all of a sudden not have to worry about dealing with an all-time great boxer with frightening hand and foot speed?

Do you really not get it? It's the same reason a top-level tennis player will beat a top-level golf player at tennis but the golfer will beat the tennis player at golf. It's not that complicated.

ascanbe

Deleted User wrote: »

A top-level MMA fighter would dodge a couple of Mayweather's punches far more than he'd be hit. Let's not compare with some lad you'll see in a hotel down the road. As well as that there'd be top-level lads who'd kick him straight out or with half a dozen kicks leave him barely able to stand.

Really?
He'd get in close and simply 'dodge' Mayweather's punches in a way that world-class boxers fail to?
And presumably Mayweather would just stand there and wait for the mma fighter to deliver his blows?
I'm not comparing anyone to 'a lad you'll see in a hotel down the road'.
I simply think that you and others here are underestimating just what a proposition a world-class boxer is and what kind of trouble anyone ill-equipped to deal with their skills would be in at close quarters.

Arawn

ascanbe wrote: »

Arawn wrote: »

Thats because you dont understand the mma game tbh

I freely admit that.
But the person i responded to opined that an mma fighter, if in a ring under mma rules, would make short work of Mayweather.
I'm simply trying to understand how this would be.
Would he all of a sudden not have to worry about dealing with an all-time great boxer with frightening hand and foot speed?

Mayweather is a boxer and a boxer alone, trained to deal with boxers. Not take downs,kicks,knees etc.

Dave!

Rigol wrote: »

OP posted

"He also says that no UFC fighter could compete with the science of a Floyd Mayweather"


lets hear some thoughts on that.

I say even in a mma ring mayweather could still tear some a.ss.
They'd have a heck of a time getting past his hands.

No, even the sh*ttest of MMA fighters would have no trouble getting past a boxer's hands. They'd just shoot in and take him down easily. Boxers don't need to know how to prevent a takedown, because it's a standup sport. Shooting and sprawling are among the first things an MMA fighter will learn.

Anyone who has fast and powerful hands is in with a puncher's chance in a one-off MMA fight, but if they fought consistently they would be found out very quickly. No way you can compete with BJJ fighters who would take you down and tap you out easily, or NCAA wrestling champions who would toss them around the ring like a rag doll, or Muay Thai fighters who would chop their legs off with shin kicks and keep them at too much of a distance to use their hands.

Not a chance he'd do well in MMA unless he trained in another discipline.

Arawn

ascanbe wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

A top-level MMA fighter would dodge a couple of Mayweather's punches far more than he'd be hit. Let's not compare with some lad you'll see in a hotel down the road. As well as that there'd be top-level lads who'd kick him straight out or with half a dozen kicks leave him barely able to stand.

Really?
He'd get in close and simply 'dodge' Mayweather's punches in a way that world-class boxers fail to?
And presumably Mayweather would just stand there and wait for the mma fighter to deliver his blows?
I'm not comparing anyone to 'a lad you'll see in a hotel down the road'.
I simply think that you and others here are underestimating just what a proposition a world-class boxer is and what kind of trouble anyone ill-equipped to deal with their skills would be in at close quarters.

......Why would they stand there. All they gotta do is take him down and go home with his arm

bernardamaac.

Lol at the rubbish being talked in here.:D I like boxing and ufc.What idiot said brock lesnar was a great fighter in the ufc?Sure mayweather could beat a few lightweights in the ufc but i couldnt imagine him lasting against the best fighter in the ufc anderson silva.How long before may would be on his ass with leg sweep's.Still would love to see mayweather,pacman,alvarez and my favourite miguel cotto fight some ufc fighter's like GSP,silva akayama and michael bisping.Be just like undisputed!

ascanbe

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really not get it? It's the same reason a top-level tennis player will beat a top-level golf player at tennis but the golfer will beat the tennis player at golf. It's not that complicated.

It's not the same at all.
They are two entirely separate/different sports, whereas the skill-set Mayweather possesses, translates seamlessly to mma, unless i'm missing something and there is something in the rules that would prevent this.
I'm not trying to denigrate mma, by the way.
I was simply responding to someone who was of the opinion that an mma fighter would make short work of Mayweather.
Am simply stating that i don't see how this would be so and am yet to be convinced otherwise.

Arawn

bernardamaac. wrote: »

Lol at the rubbish being talked in here.:D I like boxing and ufc.What idiot said brock lesnar was a great fighter in the ufc?Sure mayweather could beat a few lightweights in the ufc but i couldnt imagine him lasting against the best fighter in the ufc anderson silva.How long before may would be on his ass with leg sweep's.Still would love to see mayweather,pacman,alvarez and my favourite miguel cotto fight some ufc fighter's like GSP,silva akayama and michael bisping.Be just like undisputed!

Lol at you sayin rubbish here then say hr wouldnt last against silva whos 6'3 and walks at bout 220lbs.....

Arawn

ascanbe wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really not get it? It's the same reason a top-level tennis player will beat a top-level golf player at tennis but the golfer will beat the tennis player at golf. It's not that complicated.

It's not the same at all.
They are two entirely separate/different sports, whereas the skill-set Mayweather possesses, translates seamlessly to mma, unless i'm missing something and there is something in the rules that would prevent this.
I'm not trying to denigrate mma, by the way.
I was simply responding to someone who was of the opinion that an mma fighter would make short work of Mayweather.
Am simply stating that i don't see how this would be so and am yet to be convinced .


You have to be trying to get a rise here. Its been clearly explained to you

ascanbe

ascanbe wrote: »

Really?
He'd get in close and simply 'dodge' Mayweather's punches in a way that world-class boxers fail to?

He'll have more options, he can leg-kick, head-kick, rush him etc.

And presumably Mayweather would just stand there and wait for the mma fighter to deliver his blows?

Would the MMA fighter just let him hit away?

I'm not comparing anyone to 'a lad you'll see in a hotel down the road'.
I simply think that you and others here are underestimating just what a proposition a world-class boxer is and what kind of trouble anyone ill-equipped to deal with their skills would be in at close quarters.

And I think you're greatly underestimating MMA fighters. I'm bigger and stronger than most professional golfers but I'll bet I couldn't drive further than any of those with current tour cards since I have a single physical advantage. If Mayweather was up against a decent kicker he'd never get close enough to land a punch. As well as everything else, if an MMA fighter went for a take-down how many punches do you think Mayweather would get in in the half-second it took? Would they be instantly knocked out? Would Mayweather while worrying about having his legs kicked, legs hooked, being tackled, face getting kicked be as quick to react as he his he knows the other lad can only punch?

flynnlives

Boxing ftw

Tyson, in his day, would put any mma fighter down.

ascanbe

Arawn wrote: »

Mayweather is a boxer and a boxer alone, trained to deal with boxers. Not take downs,kicks,knees etc.

Mayweather knows how to move out of the way of things and can do so at great speed.
They guy who went for the knee/kick, would then have to deal with being in the situation of being off balance with an all-time great boxer about to tee-off on him.

ascanbe

ascanbe wrote: »

It's not the same at all.
They are two entirely separate/different sports, whereas the skill-set Mayweather possesses, translates seamlessly to mma, unless i'm missing something and there is something in the rules that would prevent this.
I'm not trying to denigrate mma, by the way.
I was simply responding to someone who was of the opinion that an mma fighter would make short work of Mayweather.
Am simply stating that i don't see how this would be so and am yet to be convinced otherwise.

He has a single, very focused skill that yes, would translate to MMA. However he'd be against someone with 4-5 other simple tactics that he's never had to deal with before and the MMA lads aren't going to be knocked out much if any easier than a boxer. How quick will Mayweather be when he has to defend against legkicks, leg-hooks, headkicks, takedowns, punches, etc., when he's spent his life only worry about punches? Well, punches and nagging women.

flynnlives

your forgeting the power of Mayweathers or Manny Pacquiaos punch

one chance, and they will get one chance, in a fight and the mma fighter is going down.

Arawn

ascanbe wrote: »

Arawn wrote: »

Mayweather is a boxer and a boxer alone, trained to deal with boxers. Not take downs,kicks,knees etc.

Mayweather knows how to move out of the way of things and can do so at great speed.
They guy who went for the knee/kick, would then have to deal with being in the situation of being off balance with an all-time great boxer about to tee-off on him.

......Seriously im giving up. Mayweather is the better at a sport hes not trained for than people who jave trained all their life for it. Sher michael jordan is lucky floyd never did basketball

Arawn

Arawn wrote: »

......Seriously im giving up. Mayweather is the better at a sport hes not trained for than people who jave trained all their life for it. Sher michael jordan is lucky floyd never did basketball

Yeah I think I'm done as well.

flynnlives

anyways whatever your into but imo mma is savagery.

Boxing is a thinking mans game.

Randy Anders

UFC is an unbelievable sport

The champion of each weight category is officially the best fighter in the world in his weight division. As in, nobody on earth, if put in a ring or cage can beat these guys in a 1 on 1 fight

If you put Pacquiao or Mayweather in a ring with the any of these ufc fighters and told them to fight till the death, they would get their arses handed to them

enfant terrible

ascanbe wrote: »

I know nothing about mma, so have to ask the question.
Is there something in mma rules that would prevent Mayweather from utilising his skills as he would in a boxing match?
If not then there's a serious 'question about it'.
The mma fighter would have to get close to Mayweather in order to put him 'on his back' and have him 'tapping'.
With Mayweather's speed of movement/hand speed/skill he'd take the head off anyone who got close to him and was ill-equipped to deal with it.
Don't really see what Mayweather would have to fear from an mma fighter.

No offence but you don't have a clue.

How easy do you think it is to knock someone out when they charge at your waist?

Boxers have spoken out on this already and all admit thay would have little chance against an MMA fighter in a cage.

Fights against wrestlers would likely go like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kz0EXLwK0g

and James Toney was a great boxer.

Fights against kickboxers would likely go like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBG9PeImA10

Dave!

flynnlives wrote: »

your forgeting the power of Mayweathers or Manny Pacquiaos punch

one chance, and they will get one chance, in a fight and the mma fighter is going down.

You think an MMA fighter who had a previous career getting shin-kicked in the head in K1 in Japan is going to drop after a dig from a boxer? I don't. There's a whole range of different backgrounds and disciplines that fighters come into MMA with, so you can't make general comments like that. The same does not apply to boxing though; they all train to use a limited set of attacks, and they all train to defend against specific ones too. Attributes like speed, power, agility, etc., will stand to them, but there are specific techniques as well as a whole range of extra offensive moves that the boxer would be exposed to, and you can't just punch your way out of them. They're standard in MMA.

darlett

I like the idea of watching UFC with beers and snacks and mates. Its got more aggression than many boxing bouts. But they really need to lose the skimpiness of the lyrca outfits-when they get in a hold sometimes its just a bit too...gay.

Randy Anders

flynnlives wrote: »

anyways whatever your into but imo mma is savagery.

Boxing is a thinking mans game.

Boxing is just as savage as UFC. Boxers take infinitely more punches to the head during their career in comparison to an mma fighter and I'd wager that boxing is reponsible for a lot more neurological problems such as Parkinsons

ascanbe

Arawn wrote: »

......Seriously im giving up. Mayweather is the better at a sport hes not trained for than people who jave trained all their life for it. Sher michael jordan is lucky floyd never did basketball

Michael Jordan is probably my favourite athlete ever as it happens, but i digress..
I know you're joking and i understand it's stupid to compare across sports and i understand why an mma fan could get annoyed by this.
And i freely admit i know next to nothing about mma.
But boxing and mma do share a certain similarity and i was simply responding to someone who was of the opinion that an mma fighter would make short work of Mayweather.
I was simply proposing a counter-point/arguing why this might not be so.
In no way do i mean to denigratre mma or its exponents/fans.
But i think fans of mma shouldn't do the same to boxing/ underestimate boxers, in trying to big-up their own favourite sport.

enfant terrible

Randy Anders wrote: »

Boxing is just as savage as UFC. Boxers take infinitely more punches to the head during their career in comparison to an mma fighter and I'd wager that boxing is reponsible for a lot more long term illnesses like Parkinsons

Ya they let them get hit till thay fall down, let them recover for a little bit then let them fight until they get knocked down again, let them recover for a little bit then let them fight until they get knocked down again.

Perfect design for brain damage.

moneyman

I'm a bigger boxing fan than I am UFC, but the latter is still a great sport with a huge amount of skill and technique to it. People saying otherwise simply don't know any better.

And yes, Floyd would get destroyed by any decent UFC fighter in an MMA fight. He doesn't even have one punch KO power anymore (and he's never been a huge hitter anyway). People who dislike MMA may like to believe that boxers would beat most MMA fighters, but it's just not true. Obviously the boxers are better boxers, but they wouldn't be able to defend a take-down or avoid leg kicks. And once they're on the ground the fight would be over within minutes, if not seconds.

Canis Lupus

You can put Mayweather into a ring with an mma fighter and he can dance like Micheal Jackson and do all that silly shoulder rolling until he gets picked up and dropped on his head.

It's not to say with training a boxer can't do any good or that a boxer could get lucky with a knockout punch but as a general rule a boxer will not have the skill set to prevent a takedown and submission. If you think he would then you've neither watched UFC or have any understanding of the sport.

(having said the above whilst I'm not a boxing fan I'm not adverse to it as a sport, to each their own etc).

enfant terrible

ascanbe wrote: »

Michael Jordan is probably my favourite athlete ever as it happens, but i digress..
I know you're joking and i understand it's stupid to compare across sports and i understand why an mma fan could get annoyed by this.
And i freely admit i know next to nothing about mma.
But boxing and mma do share a certain similarity and i was simply responding to someone who was of the opinion that an mma fighter would make short work of Mayweather.
I was simply proposing a counter-point/arguing why this might not be so.
In no way do i mean to denigratre mma or its exponents/fans.
But i think fans of mma shouldn't do the same to boxing/ underestimate boxers, in trying to big-up their own favourite sport.

I know its hard to believe, I was the same when I was young, though Mike Tyson could beat up anyone in the world in a real fight when he was in his prime but the truth is he was never the baddest man on the planet.

ascanbe

ascanbe wrote: »

And i freely admit i know next to nothing about mma.
But boxing and mma do share a certain similarity and i was simply responding to someone who was of the opinion that an mma fighter would make short work of Mayweather.
I was simply proposing a counter-point/arguing why this might not be so.
In no way do i mean to denigratre mma or its exponents/fans.
But i think fans of mma shouldn't do the same to boxing/ underestimate boxers, in trying to big-up their own favourite sport.

In a boxing match I can't think of a similar-weight high-level UFC fighter who would have better than a 1-in-50 lucky punch chance against Mayweather in a boxing match. In an MMA fight Mayweather would simply have no chance unless the MMA fight went in high for a takedown and Mayweather landed one punch to the temple. Without the gloves it's harder to stun someone unless it's a really accurate punch and a lot of boxers would likely smash their hands to **** within a couple of punches. As well as that, as excellent as Mayweather is at dodging punches, when he has to worry about 3 different heighted-kicks on either side, high/low takedowns etc. his slip to the side and stay close enough to counter-punch would have him either on his back or thrown across the ring within a second. He has a remarkably specific set of skills that would be worked around by any MMA fighter worth his salt. I really don't think you appreciate just how fast MMA at the top level is. If you jumped in and started watching UFC now I could forgive someone for finding the pace somewhat pedestrian but if you look at the lower levels where speed differences (which is the easiest thing to perceive) are greater then look at the UFC lads who are miles ahead of those guys just think how quick they are. Mayweather is fast at one or two things, UFC lads are fast at 6-10 things that Mayweather has never had to deal with.

ascanbe

enfant terrible wrote: »

I know its hard to believe, I was the same when I was young, though Mike Tyson could beat up anyone in the world in a real fight when he was in his prime but the truth is he was never the baddest man on the planet.

Don't get me wrong.
I'm haven't been convinced i'm 'wrong' regarding the Mayweather/mma debate; i'm not 'tapping out', if you will.
Just saying i realise it's a pointless debate and, again, i was responding to someone who was underestimating just what a world-class boxer brings to the table.

Dave!

ascanbe wrote: »

Don't get me wrong.
I'm haven't been convinced i'm 'wrong' regarding the Mayweather/mma debate; i'm not 'tapping out', if you will.
Just saying i realise it's a pointless debate and, again, i was responding to someone who was underestimating just what a world-class boxer brings to the table.

What reservations do you still have? There have been a few posts now describing the range of new attacks that the boxer would have to deal with, ones which you cannot simply punch your way out of. As well as that there are lots of MMA fighters who come from kickboxing backgrounds, so a boxer's sheer power is not particularly intimidating.

rossie1977

ScumLord wrote: »

Brook Lesner was a joke, the only reason he got big fights was due to his name and he was shown for the joke that he is in just about every fight. He made his money out of UFC and quit because he couldn't hack it, he was lucky in the fights he won.

if you want to call an ncaa division 1 champion with a 106-5 record a joke be my guest, explain to me how he was lucky beating herring, couture and mir?? before his illness (and half his stomach was removed) lesnar was ufc champion, after his illness he was a shadow of the fighter he had been

brock lesnar made money in ufc sure, he also made ufc a ton of money back, ufc have had 7 shows do a 1 million or more buys and lesnars headlined 4 of those, i never said he was the best fighter but he sure was the biggest star

enfant terrible

ascanbe wrote: »

Don't get me wrong.
I'm haven't been convinced i'm 'wrong' regarding the Mayweather/mma debate; i'm not 'tapping out', if you will.
Just saying i realise it's a pointless debate and, again, i was responding to someone who was underestimating just what a world-class boxer brings to the table.

Did you read my earlier post, any thoughts?

ascanbe

Deleted User wrote: »

In a boxing match I can't think of a similar-weight high-level UFC fighter who would have better than a 1-in-50 lucky punch chance against Mayweather in a boxing match. In an MMA fight Mayweather would simply have no chance unless the MMA fight went in high for a takedown and Mayweather landed one punch to the temple. Without the gloves it's harder to stun someone unless it's a really accurate punch and a lot of boxers would likely smash their hands to **** within a couple of punches. As well as that, as excellent as Mayweather is at dodging punches, when he has to worry about 3 different heighted-kicks on either side, high/low takedowns etc. his slip to the side and stay close enough to counter-punch would have him either on his back or thrown across the ring within a second. He has a remarkably specific set of skills that would be worked around by any MMA fighter worth his salt. I really don't think you appreciate just how fast MMA at the top level is. If you jumped in and started watching UFC now I could forgive someone for finding the pace somewhat pedestrian but if you look at the lower levels where speed differences (which is the easiest thing to perceive) are greater then look at the UFC lads who are miles ahead of those guys just think how quick they are. Mayweather is fast at one or two things, UFC lads are fast at 6-10 things that Mayweather has never had to deal with.

You make some good points there.
And you may be right.
It's up for debate/we'll never know.
Mayweather has a skill-set he's honed to the very highest level that would translate to mma but would that mean he'd overcome the, in fighting terms, 'jack of all-trades, master of none' he'd be faced with or vice versa?
I'm of the opinion he may very well and was responding to someone who was of the opinion that he wouldn't have a chance.

enfant terrible

ascanbe wrote: »

You make some good points there.
And you may be right.
It's up for debate/we'll never know.
Mayweather has a skill-set he's honed to the very highest level that would translate to mma but would that mean he'd overcome the, in fighting terms, 'jack of all-trades, master of none' he'd be faced with or vice versa?
I'm of the opinion he may very well and was responding to someone who was of the opinion that he wouldn't have a chance.

This might settle it for you

World Boxing Association heavyweight champion David Haye has been called out by James Toney. Toney, who fights Randy Couture in an Ultimate Fighting Championship match on Aug. 28 in Boston, has said he plans to knock out Couture and then to go after Haye.

But Haye, who is a big UFC fan and has trained in mixed martial arts, laughs off Toney’s threats. He doesn’t believe Toney’s going to be able to fight him after he gets pummeled by Couture, though he has mad respect for Toney’s boxing skill and record.

“James Toney is the purest of the pure at boxing,” Haye said. “He is so brilliant at boxing and his skills are so ingrained in him that he’s been an elite level fighter, in shape or not in shape, his skills alone put him on another level as a boxer.

Couture is a former UFC heavyweight and light heavyweight champion who is a decorated wrestler. Haye believes Couture will take Toney down quickly and easily and pummel him on the ground.

“Six months of training isn’t going to be enough,” Haye said. “As a UFC fan, I know two or three years wouldn’t be enough. How many times has Toney sprawled in his life? 500? How many leg kicks has he taken in his life? 300? How many Kimura attempts has he defended? 140? Even if he’s done double that amount, he wouldn’t have nearly the experience needed to win a UFC fight.”

“I know from training in MMA myself that the wrestling aspect ruins your punching power,” Haye said. “After a minute of grappling, your arms, back and shoulders fill with blood and even if you then find space to throw punches, your power is suddenly crap.

“And I hit a lot harder and I’m so much faster than James, and I couldn’t land a punch on fighters when all they wanted to do was take me down to the ground. James is a much more static fighter than I am, and is going to get thrown on his back immediately by Randy. I admire Toney’s spirit and boxing skills. But he’s delusional here.”

Dangerous Man

enfant terrible wrote: »

This might settle it for you

World Boxing Association heavyweight champion David Haye has been called out by James Toney. Toney, who fights Randy Couture in an Ultimate Fighting Championship match on Aug. 28 in Boston, has said he plans to knock out Couture and then to go after Haye.

But Haye, who is a big UFC fan and has trained in mixed martial arts, laughs off Toney’s threats. He doesn’t believe Toney’s going to be able to fight him after he gets pummeled by Couture, though he has mad respect for Toney’s boxing skill and record.

“James Toney is the purest of the pure at boxing,” Haye said. “He is so brilliant at boxing and his skills are so ingrained in him that he’s been an elite level fighter, in shape or not in shape, his skills alone put him on another level as a boxer.

Couture is a former UFC heavyweight and light heavyweight champion who is a decorated wrestler. Haye believes Couture will take Toney down quickly and easily and pummel him on the ground.

“Six months of training isn’t going to be enough,” Haye said. “As a UFC fan, I know two or three years wouldn’t be enough. How many times has Toney sprawled in his life? 500? How many leg kicks has he taken in his life? 300? How many Kimura attempts has he defended? 140? Even if he’s done double that amount, he wouldn’t have nearly the experience needed to win a UFC fight.”

“I know from training in MMA myself that the wrestling aspect ruins your punching power,” Haye said. “After a minute of grappling, your arms, back and shoulders fill with blood and even if you then find space to throw punches, your power is suddenly crap.

“And I hit a lot harder and I’m so much faster than James, and I couldn’t land a punch on fighters when all they wanted to do was take me down to the ground. James is a much more static fighter than I am, and is going to get thrown on his back immediately by Randy. I admire Toney’s spirit and boxing skills. But he’s delusional here.”

Which... is exactly what happened. I think that puts the argument to bed nicely.

Toney was more entertaining talking shit prior to the fight than he was in the Octagon. You should see some of his videos - both incomprehensible and hilarious at the same time.

ascanbe

Dave! wrote: »

What reservations do you still have? There have been a few posts now describing the range of new attacks that the boxer would have to deal with, ones which you cannot simply punch your way out of. As well as that there are lots of MMA fighters who come from kickboxing backgrounds, so a boxer's sheer power is not particularly intimidating.

Two guys in a fight.
One may have 'one' deadly weapon he's damn near perfected the art of using.
The other may have a ton of weapons in his armory he's quite proficient at using.
If the guy with varied weapons gets taken off balance and leaves himself open to attack from the guy who's mastered the use of his 'one' deadly weapon, it matters not a damn what he could theoretically could do with all those weapons at his disposal.

mickydoomsux

This thread is hilarious.

Every single boxer vs. mixed martial artist fight would end with the MMA guy winning.

A boxer has only one technique to use. He will either get leg/head-kicked from outside his range by a guy with strong Muay Thai/kickboxing skills or get taken down and subbed by a guy with strong wrestling/BJJ skills. They literally have one single opportunity to throw a lucky punch and win the fight before they get their asses handed to them.

Boxers are only able to fight and beat other boxers because they only know one aspect of fighting. The Toney vs. Couture fight was a prime example. Toney was looking for the knockout punch, he couldn't get it so he got taken down and mauled because all he had was his hands so he had no business going up against someone who can actually fight.

ascanbe

enfant terrible wrote: »

This might settle it for you

World Boxing Association heavyweight champion David Haye has been called out by James Toney. Toney, who fights Randy Couture in an Ultimate Fighting Championship match on Aug. 28 in Boston, has said he plans to knock out Couture and then to go after Haye.

But Haye, who is a big UFC fan and has trained in mixed martial arts, laughs off Toney’s threats. He doesn’t believe Toney’s going to be able to fight him after he gets pummeled by Couture, though he has mad respect for Toney’s boxing skill and record.

“James Toney is the purest of the pure at boxing,” Haye said. “He is so brilliant at boxing and his skills are so ingrained in him that he’s been an elite level fighter, in shape or not in shape, his skills alone put him on another level as a boxer.

Couture is a former UFC heavyweight and light heavyweight champion who is a decorated wrestler. Haye believes Couture will take Toney down quickly and easily and pummel him on the ground.

“Six months of training isn’t going to be enough,” Haye said. “As a UFC fan, I know two or three years wouldn’t be enough. How many times has Toney sprawled in his life? 500? How many leg kicks has he taken in his life? 300? How many Kimura attempts has he defended? 140? Even if he’s done double that amount, he wouldn’t have nearly the experience needed to win a UFC fight.”

“I know from training in MMA myself that the wrestling aspect ruins your punching power,” Haye said. “After a minute of grappling, your arms, back and shoulders fill with blood and even if you then find space to throw punches, your power is suddenly crap.

“And I hit a lot harder and I’m so much faster than James, and I couldn’t land a punch on fighters when all they wanted to do was take me down to the ground. James is a much more static fighter than I am, and is going to get thrown on his back immediately by Randy. I admire Toney’s spirit and boxing skills. But he’s delusional here.”

James Toney is a past-it boxer, though was very talented fighter, in his mid-forties.
It's understandable that he'd be involved in irrelevant side-shows that mean nothing.
Has no bearing on this argument. such as it is, tbh.

enfant terrible

ascanbe wrote: »

James Toney is a past-it boxer, though was very talented fighter, in his mid-forties.
It's understandable that he'd be involved in irrelevant side-shows that mean nothing.
Has no bearing on this argument. such as it is, tbh.

Randy Coute is five years older than James Toney

If you knew who Randy Couture was you'd know he is a past-it mma fighter, though was very talented fighter, in his mid-forties.

That's why they were paired up.

Anyway I believe no amount of evidence will change your mind that boxers have such amazing hand speed and footwork they can knock out an opponent charging at them.

What does David Haye know anyway he's just one of the best boxers on the planet and a follower of MMA.

Did you actually read what he said? do you agree or disagree with him?

leggo

For me, the only fair way to compare the merits of following either sport is what I'd rather watch if it was two unknowns. And MMA wins that, hands down, every time.

Pro-boxing is the same story every time, for me. It's the same end goal both men are looking to achieve, just a case of who can do so first. I've no particular interest in the technique because there isn't many ways you can deviate the technique to achieve a different goal: you're either just racking up points or trying to knock someone out. So I can only take a couple of fights a year at this rate. And the thoughts of watching a full card bores me to tears.

Never mind that the sports' credibility has been shot to **** with controversies, faux controversies, fixed fights, inability to put together big money matches due to money alone, building up so-called 'stars' only to have them killed when they face their first real challenge, etc.

Amateur boxing is a slightly different story. I'd have more time for that and would happily head along to a local club to watch a live event.

But with MMA I could watch 6, 7, 8 hours of it quite happily. Every fight has a different dynamic and story, there are so many weapons at each fighter's disposal and the sport has evolved to a stage where fighters have to be versed in multiple areas to succeed, it can end at any moment and by a variety of means, and the results are merciless in their unpredictability. Anyone can legitimately beat anyone on a given night.

MMA wins, hands down. It's not even close anymore. Pro-boxing died when Tyson got battered by Kevin McBride. Its zombified corpse was last seen pissing on what's left of its legacy with the Pacquiao/Bradley decision.

ascanbe

enfant terrible wrote: »

Randy Coute is five years older than James Toney

If you knew who Randy Couture was you'd know he is a past-it mma fighter, though was very talented fighter, in his mid-forties.

That's why they were paired up.

Anyway I believe no amount of evidence will change your mind that boxers have such amazing hand speed and footwork they can knock out an opponent charging at them.

What does David Haye know anyway he's just one of the best boxers on the planet and a follower of MMA.

Did you actually read what he said? do you agree or disagree with him?

So they're both past-it and involved in a side-show.
And Couture actually keeps himself in shape, unlike Toney.
What i'm saying is that that example is obviously irrelevant.
I read what Haye said, yes, and that's his opinion, i suppose, though i think he was only commenting regarding that match-up.
He's defintely a world-heavyweight champion in talking sh*te anyway, so probably isn't the best example to use, though as you said, he has proven himself a top-level boxer, whatever one thinks about him, so his opinion should be taken with some weight.
Look, i'm not trying to denigrate mma fighters, as i've said.
I've no doubt how great the top ones are at their discipline and that they are great athletes.
And i'm not saying i'm necessarily 'right' regarding the somewhat absurd debate we're now involved with.
My only problem was with those on this thread who were trying to denigrate the very top-level boxers like Mayweather in order to big up their own sport of choice.

mackg

ascanbe wrote: »

So they're both past-it and involved in a side-show.
And Couture actually keeps himself in shape, unlike Toney.
What i'm saying is that that example is obviously irrelevant.
I read what Haye said, yes, and that's his opinion, i suppose, though i think he was only commenting regarding that match-up.
He's defintely a world-heavyweight champion in talking sh*te anyway, so probably isn't the best example to use, though as you said, he has proven himself a top-level boxer, whatever one thinks about him, so his opinion should be taken with some weight.
Look, i'm not trying to denigrate mma fighters, as i've said.
I've no doubt how great the top ones are at their discipline and that they are great athletes.
And i'm not saying i'm necessarily 'right' regarding the somewhat absurd debate we're now involved with.
My only problem was with those on this thread who were trying to denigrate the very top-level boxers like Mayweather in order to big up their own sport of choice.

People aren't denigrating top level boxers by saying that they wouldn't have a chance in a different sport. You are denigrating MMA fighters by saying that someone from a different sport could just waltz in and compete in theirs.

You've admitted you know literally nothing about MMA but still seem to think you can provide some insight into how a boxer would fare in it.

Nodin

....have we got to 'Who Would Win - Tyson Or Godzilla' yet?

rockbeast

UFC is to boxing as Nascar is to Formula1...10 points in my SAT though!...