Huge negative equity on apartments.

Kidchameleon

What about people who baught during the boom with the intention of trading up? Like myself, im perfectly able to pay the loan but to sell and move to a better house is impossible... Is there anything the gov / banks will do to help?

enricoh

if it was me - stop paying, throw in keys n get a new phone no. if its tight now and interest rates are so low imagine what its gonna be like when rates go up.

sod them, u've bad credit rating - so what, u'll be able to have a life. a mate of mine age 40 recently had a heart attack - pure stressed out over cash, mortgage etc

cloptrop

Kidchameleon wrote: »

What about people who baught during the boom with the intention of trading up? Like myself, im perfectly able to pay the loan but to sell and move to a better house is impossible... Is there anything the gov / banks will do to help?

No . You made the gamble and failed really dude .

ncmc

Kidchameleon wrote: »

What about people who baught during the boom with the intention of trading up? Like myself, im perfectly able to pay the loan but to sell and move to a better house is impossible... Is there anything the gov / banks will do to help?

Wasn't there some talk a while back about banks doing mortgages allowing people on negative equity to trade up to a larger home and take some of their negative equity with them? It sounds like a recipe for disaster though and I presume it would depend on how much negative equity you are in.

I do feel sorry for people stuck in inadequate apartments whose situation has changed, I know a couple who are in a one bed apartment and have just had their second child. They didn't buy to sell quickly and make a fast buck, but they did think they'd be able to trade up when the time came.

Snowie

Maybe in the future these people who go spending 400,000 on an apartment may have some for sight and re think paying that for them apartment.
I've no sympathy for any one that pays that much for an apartment utter stupidity.... All because of the age old irish attitude get your self some property...

Boombastic

Rigol wrote: »

im with the op on this one. hand in the keys, declare bankruptcy, head abroad.
Let the state and bank do its worst...whatever that is it can't be much worse than sweating your life away for an apartment at 1/4 value.

But what if 25 years the property is worth twice what they paid. This short term thinking is a lot of the problem

ncmc wrote: »

........
I do feel sorry for people stuck in inadequate apartments whose situation has changed, I know a couple who are in a one bed apartment and have just had their second child. They didn't buy to sell quickly and make a fast buck, but they did think they'd be able to trade up when the time came.

Sorry that's their own problem, they knew they're living situation, they made the decision to have more children

Brain Stroking

Rigol wrote: »

im with the op on this one. hand in the keys, declare bankruptcy, head abroad.
Let the state and bank do its worst...whatever that is it can't be much worse than sweating your life away for an apartment at 1/4 value.

Yup and then complain about the politicians screwing the country :rolleyes:

Grayson

Actually, the only people I feel sorry for are families at the bottom of the property ladder. People who bought a small apt thinking they could possibly move up in 5-10 years. They still bought into the whole bubble mentality but not as bad as the single 20 somethings who purchased huge apartments because they didn't want to feel left out or because it was a status thing.

2rkehij30qtza5

Grayson wrote: »

Actually, the only people I feel sorry for are families at the bottom of the property ladder. People who bought a small apt thinking they could possibly move up in 5-10 years. They still bought into the whole bubble mentality but not as bad as the single 20 somethings who purchased huge apartments because they didn't want to feel left out or because it was a status thing.

This is exactly where we are.
Family with two small kids. Living in a rented house and renting out the apartment we paid €450k for but is worth €150k at most. Easy to say hand back keys but longterm that leaves us in a worse position...still owing money and stopping ourselves from ever being able to get a mortgage for a family home in the future.
We bought the apartment thinking it will be fine for now (start of 2006) and when we have kids we will sell it and upgrade. With the recession we have had to move to another city but rent out the apartment now, which comes with its own headaches.
It's soul destroying...don't know how we will ever pay off the debt and be able to buy a family home and give stability to our kids...ie not have to move from house to house every few years. I get very upset thinking about it. We have to pay €1000 a month on top of the rental income to meet the mortgage and we have just enough to buy clothes, food etc. then. No luxuries whatsoever...and we have good jobs thank God. But our standard of living would be good..we would be able to take an annual holiday etc if we didn't have to fork out on the apartment.

Guy:Incognito

Gauss wrote: »

I agree, I'm not in negative equity. But if I found myself in such a scenario wher the negative equity is huge I wouldn't pay it back. I know it's wrong just like if I found a million euro it woul be wrong to keep it, but I still would.

Are you looking to sell? What difference does negative equity make if your not?

If it makes you feel better, I'll tell you the house your going to live in for the rest of your life is worth €1m. Shazam, no more negative equity. Not that it matters what the book value of your house is if your just living in it anyway,

gara

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

Living in a rented house and renting out the apartment we paid €450k for but is worth €150k at most. We bought the apartment thinking it will be fine for now (start of 2006) and when we have kids we will sell it and upgrade.
It's soul destroying...don't know how we will ever pay off the debt and be able to buy a family home. I get very upset thinking about it. We have to pay €1000 a month on top of the rental income .we would be able to take an annual holiday etc if we didn't have to fork out on the apartment.

You didn't have to fork out for a half a million flat in 06 either. You could have (God forbid) rented. Nobody put a gun to your head and honestly, unless a flat was dry-lined with gold how it could ever be worth half a million?

2rkehij30qtza5

gara wrote: »

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

Living in a rented house and renting out the apartment we paid €450k for but is worth €150k at most. We bought the apartment thinking it will be fine for now (start of 2006) and when we have kids we will sell it and upgrade.
It's soul destroying...don't know how we will ever pay off the debt and be able to buy a family home. I get very upset thinking about it. We have to pay €1000 a month on top of the rental income .we would be able to take an annual holiday etc if we didn't have to fork out on the apartment.

You didn't have to fork out for a half a million flat in 06 either. You could have (God forbid) rented. Nobody put a gun to your head and honestly, unless a flat was dry-lined with gold how it could ever be worth half a million?

We got married and bought the cheapest accommodation in the area at the time. We were living in Sth Dublin and it was the cheapest accom at the time. As far as we could see, property would only get more expensive (we were clearly wrong in hindsight) and we thought if we don't buy now we might not be able to afford in a year or two. Clearly we were wrong but it's what we thought.

Brain Stroking

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

We got married and bought the cheapest accommodation in the area at the time. We were living in Sth Dublin and it was the cheapest accom at the time. As far as we could see, property would only get more expensive (we were clearly wrong in hindsight) and we thought if we don't buy now we might not be able to afford in a year or two. Clearly we were wrong but it's what we thought.

Cheapest accomodation available was for €500,000? Is that what you're saying?

JimiTime

P.C. wrote: »

No thanks.
I do not want to share your debt.

You already do. We all do. The deal however doesn't include those who are in the debt getting out of it. So you'll be happy to know, that while we're all sharing all this debt, those who are in debt are sufferring. That'll show them. Maybe we should stop them at the borders and gas them if they try to leave too.

2rkehij30qtza5

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

We got married and bought the cheapest accommodation in the area at the time. We were living in Sth Dublin and it was the cheapest accom at the time. As far as we could see, property would only get more expensive (we were clearly wrong in hindsight) and we thought if we don't buy now we might not be able to afford in a year or two. Clearly we were wrong but it's what we thought.

Cheapest accomodation available was for €500,000? Is that what you're saying?

No. I am saying, which I think is PRETTY CLEAR from my post, that the cheapest accommodation available in the area WE WERE LOOKING IN was €450,000. Perhaps we could have bought a bedsit for cheaper but we were looking for a 2-bed apt in a non-council estate (maybe they would have been cheaper there too, I didn't look) and YES it was the cheapest at the time. We naively thought property would go up in price and thought we were getting a foot on the ladder.

who_me

Bought in August '07 (almost exactly the time when things went 'pop') for 350K, it's probably around 180-200 now.

Can't really have any complaints, if the place had appreciated I wouldn't want to share that with anyone, so why should anyone have to share my debt? In fairness, the mortgage payments have come down by about €600 per month since then, which makes things much less painful.

I'm just thankful I bought a 'home' (even if it is an apartment) rather than the 'first step on the ladder' crap that some people were advising me to do. I considered buying some tiny, cheaper apartments, and the thought of being stuck in them for the rest of my life gives me a shudder.

gara

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

No. I am saying, which I think is PRETTY CLEAR from my post, that the cheapest accommodation available in the area WE WERE LOOKING IN was €450,000. Perhaps we could have bought a bedsit for cheaper but we were looking for a 2-bed apt in a non-council estate (maybe they would have been cheaper there too, I didn't look) We naively thought property would go up in price

Says a lot about your financial acumen if you thought a half a million flat was actually going to increase in value and that bedsits and council estates are the only alternative purchases.

I guess snobbery is expensive!

2rkehij30qtza5

gara wrote: »

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

No. I am saying, which I think is PRETTY CLEAR from my post, that the cheapest accommodation available in the area WE WERE LOOKING IN was €450,000. Perhaps we could have bought a bedsit for cheaper but we were looking for a 2-bed apt in a non-council estate (maybe they would have been cheaper there too, I didn't look) We naively thought property would go up in price

Says a lot about your financial acumen if you thought a half a million flat was actually going to increase in value and that bedsits and council estates are the only alternative purchases.

I guess snobbery is expensive!

Really not interested in havin a conversation with someone like you or anyone else who is purely commenting to be nasty. I take it you are not in the same boat as me (lucky you) or you wouldn't have felt the need to deride me in such a fashion.
I'm not commenting or even looking at this thread anymore (so any snide replies will not be seen by me) as I have no interest in being a punch bag for those who are simply out to be mean and nasty.

Gauss

gara wrote: »

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

No. I am saying, which I think is PRETTY CLEAR from my post, that the cheapest accommodation available in the area WE WERE LOOKING IN was €450,000. Perhaps we could have bought a bedsit for cheaper but we were looking for a 2-bed apt in a non-council estate (maybe they would have been cheaper there too, I didn't look) We naively thought property would go up in price

Says a lot about your financial acumen if you thought a half a million flat was actually going to increase in value and that bedsits and council estates are the only alternative purchases.

I guess snobbery is expensive!

No need to kick someone when their down.

gara

Gauss wrote: »

No need to kick someone when their down.

Not my intention at all but I'm wholeheartedly sick of the attitude that those of us who spent responsibly during the boom are somehow supposed to empathise with reckless spenders that ruined our country.

Yes, people make mistakes but these are mistakes that were fuelled by financial stupidity and personal greed that the rest us are all paying for and that is simply not ok -a modicum of reality and personal responsibility here please!

EDIT:This same poster is making enquiries about Botox in another thread so she's clearly not too broke!

4zn76tysfajdxp

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

It's soul destroying...don't know how we will ever pay off the debt and be able to buy a family home and give stability to our kids...ie not have to move from house to house every few years. I get very upset thinking about it.

Why? I'm not being nasty here but if the family is safe and healthy then what kind of stability do you really need that you can only have from living in the same three bedroomed house for thirty years? Lots of stable families move around from time to time.

But our standard of living would be good..we would be able to take an annual holiday etc if we didn't have to fork out on the apartment.

In fairness, if missing out on an annual holiday is the worst hardship you're enduring, you're extremely lucky.

VINCWM

-_-'

Brain Stroking

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

No. I am saying, which I think is PRETTY CLEAR from my post, that the cheapest accommodation available in the area WE WERE LOOKING IN was €450,000.

Ah right. So there was cheaper property going and you chose your own path. See where i might be going with this?

One thing that strikes me about Irish people nowadays is that we always think that an exception should be made in our own situation. Why should anyone except you be made to pay for your mortgage? I understand the argument re bondholders and some of the burden should be shared etc but the question remains: you signed up to pay the money back so why is that suddenly so hard to get the head around?

2rkehij30qtza5

gara wrote: »

Gauss wrote: »

No need to kick someone when their down.

Not my intention at all but I'm wholeheartedly sick of the attitude that those of us who spent responsibly during the boom are somehow supposed to empathise with reckless spenders that ruined our country.

Yes, people make mistakes but these are mistakes that were fuelled by financial stupidity and personal greed that the rest us are all paying for and that is simply not ok -a modicum of reality and personal responsibility here please!

EDIT:This same poster is making enquiries about Botox in another thread so she's clearly not too broke!

Wow. Quite a nasty poster we have here!

Where did I say I am 'broke' anywhere???!!! I said I have to pay €1k a month on my apt and said I can't go on family holidays due to this, which is true!!! If I spend the odd €100 here or there on something frivolous (haven't had Botox by the way!) it's none of YOUR business.
This poster is trying to start a row. Please leave me alone.

Brain Stroking

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

Wow. Quite a nasty poster we have here!

In fairness (and i have no intention of being nasty for the sake of it) this thread is not a forum simply to complain against "those big bad banks" and lick wounds in the company of like minded souls. You might not like hearing what you are hearing but it is 100% fair comment.

Sykk

Where to people get this notion that "Now it's worth less so I shouldn't have to pay it back".

If it went up in price you'd be licking Berties little pile infected arse while signing up for your 3rd apartment.

Greed, greed and more greed

BostonB

P.C. wrote: »

No thanks.
I do not want to share your debt.

You are anyway, you're paying for the banks reckless lending, and the Govt sitting on their hands not cooling the market when it could.

Pushing people into foreign bankruptcy, or with no spending power isn't going to fix your tax bill it will just make it worse. TBH once people start feeling there's no point paying their way out of debt, or paying massive taxes to get nowhere it will just lead to more emigration. Which will push your tax bill yet higher. You have to balance peoples willingness (and ability) to pay. TBH though this all goes back to who lent this money to the banks in the first place. German and other banks etc . If they insist on being paid back, then everything else is stalled at that point. Of course they can't sell to Europe if its too heavily in debt to buy their goods. Which ultimately will backfire as falling exports etc. Considering all evidence points your only as good as the deal you can to today, most of peoples history will be forgotten when they come back with a bit of money in a few years for a deal.

No one will be rewarded for being a financial martyr.

2rkehij30qtza5

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

No. I am saying, which I think is PRETTY CLEAR from my post, that the cheapest accommodation available in the area WE WERE LOOKING IN was €450,000.

Ah right. So there was cheaper property going and you chose your own path. See where i might be going with this?

One thing that strikes me about Irish people nowadays is that we always think that an exception should be made in our own situation. Why should anyone except you be made to pay for your mortgage? I understand the argument re bondholders and some of the burden should be shared etc but the question remains: you signed up to pay the money back so why is that suddenly so hard to get the head around?

I'm not expecting anyone to bail me out. I continue to pay my mortgage which is in massive negative equity. Yes it's horrible but I will never hand back the keys or bail out on my repayments. The only person I have damaged is myself here...I have not inflicted my negative equity on the banks or anyone else.
It's not hard to get my head around anything.....why are you saying that??? I understand I messed up as has been said numerous times.

Brain Stroking

Sykk wrote: »

Where to people get this notion that "Now it's worth less so I shouldn't have to pay it back".

If it went up in price you'd be licking Berties little pile infected arse while signing up for your 3rd apartment.

Imagine the uproar during the boom if the Banks decided to ignore the written contracts/mortgages in place, re-appraise the value of each property and apply a new instalment figure! Thats what some people have suggested here in reverse!

shopaholic01

I bought in '04, mortgage is nowhere near €500,000. The legal implications and obligations were fully explained by my solicitor. I'm now in negative equity, but it's my home.


The idea that we should now be able to walk away from our debts is disillusional. If that were the case why would anyone bother repaying any loan?


Even new insolvency legislation is pretty restricted. You will require approval from lending institutions and it will be based purely on inability to pay. All personal assets will be seized, so it's by no means an easy way out.


We have to accept personal responsibility for our choices, unsecured bondholders, politicians etc. have no influence on our personal debts. I pay my mortgage, I don't want to pay anyone elses.

Brain Stroking

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

I'm not expecting anyone to bail me out. I continue to pay my mortgage which is in massive negative equity. Yes it's horrible but I will never hand back the keys or bail out on my repayments. The only person I have damaged is myself here...I have not inflicted my negative equity on the banks or anyone else.
It's not hard to get my head around anything.....why are you saying that??? I understand I messed up as has been said numerous times.

Sorry, my second paragraph was more generally directed than solely at you

Gauss

Sykk wrote: »

Where to people get this notion that "Now it's worth less so I shouldn't have to pay it back".

If it went up in price you'd be licking Berties little pile infected arse while signing up for your 3rd apartment.

Greed, greed and more greed

I completely agree, but I'd be gone and wouldn't be paying back half a million mortgage for a shoebox apartment if I somehow found myself in that situation.

You only get one life, why would you waste it being miserable if you could do something about it even if it was your own stupidity to put yourself in that situation.

Boombastic

Tyson Great Sawdust wrote: »

Why? I'm not being nasty here but if the family is safe and healthy then what kind of stability do you really need that you can only have from living in the same three bedroomed house for thirty years? Lots of stable families move around from time to time.



In fairness, if missing out on an annual holiday is the worst hardship you're enduring, you're extremely lucky.

Also, we had to listen to them in the boom about how great they were:rolleyes:

Kidchameleon

cloptrop wrote: »

No . You made the gamble and failed really dude .

Yes but I, like may others are well able to afford the mortgage, I just cant move because my apt will not sell for enough. I'm not looking for a hand out, not one cent, just to be able to move. I had an offer on the apt a couple of years ago, bank would not let me sell, it has come down another 30 grand since then If they had let me sell and carry the negative equity, I would have been fine.

Boombastic

The victim mentality is alive and well

snubbleste

We never had apartments before the boom, they were flats.
OP are you sure you're not Alison O'Riordan?

Sergeant

While their conclusions and beliefs may be correct, some people really lack any hint of tact and empathy when posting on the Internet.

gara

Ivan Mealy Index wrote: »

If I spend the odd €100 here or there on something(haven't had Botox by the way!) it's none of YOUR business.
This poster is trying to start a row. Please leave me alone.

I'm expressing a different opinion to yours on a public forum. Stop being so hysterical -the world isn't obliged to agree with you

shopaholic01

Gauss wrote: »

I completely agree, but I'd be gone and wouldn't be paying back half a million mortgage for a shoebox apartment if I somehow found myself in that situation.

You only get one life, why would you waste it being miserable if you could do something about it even if it was your own stupidity to put yourself in that situation.

You can't just walk away from a legally-binding agreement. Every mortgagee is liable for their debt, be it a single or joint mortgage. Lending institutions don't want your property, they want you to repay the loan drawn down of your own free will.

If you get a car loan you have to pay it back even though the car depreciates in value, it's the same principle with any secured loan.

2rkehij30qtza5

Boombastic wrote: »

Tyson Great Sawdust wrote: »

Why? I'm not being nasty here but if the family is safe and healthy then what kind of stability do you really need that you can only have from living in the same three bedroomed house for thirty years? Lots of stable families move around from time to time.



In fairness, if missing out on an annual holiday is the worst hardship you're enduring, you're extremely lucky.

Also, we had to listen to them in the boom
about how great they were:rolleyes:

Never said I wasn't lucky. If you read back I said we have good jobs.
This thread is about negative equity apartments etc and I just told MY story. Never said I wouldn't pay it back and admitted I messed up.
It's unfortunate that some people twist things to make it look like i am playing the victim. And unfortunate that others decide to be nasty. I only told my story. That's all.
I'm not impinging on anyone with my debt other than myself. Of course I could be a million times worse off.
I'm not having a pity party. I'm pi$$ed off that I owe hundreds of thousands of money in neg equity. WHO WOULDN'T BE???
It's easy for those who are not in the situation to 'throw stones'.
I will pay back every cent I owe and not inflict my debt on anyone else. So I don't see why some people on here feel the need to slate me.

Brain Stroking

Sergeant wrote: »

While their conclusions and beliefs may be correct, some people really lack any hint of tact and empathy when posting on the Internet.

Why would anyone have any genuine empathy with someone who will not accept personal responsibility? The horse has bolted, the contract signed and now they want to change the rules?

2rkehij30qtza5

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Sergeant wrote: »

While their conclusions and beliefs may be correct, some people really lack any hint of tact and empathy when posting on the Internet.

Why would anyone have any genuine empathy with someone who will not accept personal responsibility? The horse has bolted, the contract signed and now they want to change the rules?

I agree. Anyone who thinks they can or should just walk away is adding further to the dire state our nation is in. People should take responsibility for their past mistakes or whatever they want to call them. If you have a loan you should pay it back. It's your responsibility and if it's hard to pay back, talk to the bank about restructuring the loan.

BostonB

Wait till they've all bolted and your left holding the baby. Those left might need a bit of empathy then..

kflynn

cloptrop wrote: »

You kinda have nobody else to blame but you.

And the qualified professionals who work with mortgages every day and advised you. And the people they hired to value the property.

All in all though, everyone should and has to pay their debts.

Sergeant

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Why would anyone have any genuine empathy with someone who will not accept personal responsibility? The horse has bolted, the contract signed and now they want to change the rules?

Where did I say they shouldn't accept personal responsibility? It's possible to put across a point fundamentally disagreeing with this position, without coming across as a holier-than-thou keyboard warrior.

It's entirely reasonable to be of the opinion that people do honour the commitments they have made. It doesn't have to involve belittling them for having made a mistake when they invested in property in the first place. Lots of lovely people who just wanted to make a better life for themselves made a fundamental error of judgement. They have to live with this. They could probably do without the pious gesturing from anonymous posters who would almost certainly not have the gumption to be so crass if they met the person face to face, or felt the worry of wondering if they can ever repay the debt.

Hurlers on the ditch.

Sergeant

BostonB wrote: »

Wait till they've all bolted and your left holding the baby. Those left might need a bit of empathy then..

Any links or examples of this massive flight of people from the country who have decided to renege on paying their mortgages?

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Akrasia wrote: »

Hey, that apartment probably had LEDs in the bath that Changed Colour!!

totally worth the money

My bath does that

MadsL

In 2000 it was all the rage to be throwing a portion of your income at the company share scheme, as well as boasting about your "stock options" and the fact you worked for a dot com.

I just found part of my share documentation from 2000 - shares were worth $31. Two years later they were bought back by the company for $0.35 a piece.

Is there a form I can fill out to get my money back?

:rolleyes:

bodhrandude

minidazzler wrote: »

You signed a legally binding agreement to pay them back. They will bring you to court and you will be told to do so.

Okay, why not just bomb the bank or burn it down then, which will rid the evidence that you owe them.

shopaholic01

bodhrandude wrote: »

Okay, why not just bomb the bank or burn it down then, which will rid the evidence that you owe them.

Yeah, because it's unlikey they have any details on the database in head office etc:rolleyes:.