Electric Ireland/ESB Networks

corriefan

Hi everyone, just looking for some feedback, and if anyone has any definite legal advice that would be great!

We built our home and moved in Aug 2008. We have a digital meter for our electricity. In Jun of this year, we were hit with a bill of approx €6400 :eek:. We got no notification or bill for this, was online banking and found a direct debit waiting for this amount (I didnt have this money in my account thank god as if i had it would have been gone).

Of course I got onto electric ireland straight away who told me my bill was right, I should have received a bill by post a mere two weeks before this direct debit (which i am 100% definite we did not, its not something i would've have overlooked obviously). I told them it was just not possible, and after much toing and froing we were told that our meter has been read wrong for the PAST FOUR YEARS by esb networks who are separate now to electric ireland. The last figure on our meter was being counted as a decimal point

we have been offered a discount of €350 approx on this bill, and they are waiting to here back from us. I feel this discount is a joke, and that we shouldnt have to pay for something that was not our fault. they have offered to stretch the repayments over the same time period of four years. however on working this out, i figure it would add €233 onto our bill every two months. things are very tight for us at the moment, my husband is a self employed builder, and we cannot afford this.

before I start negotiations with them again, I would just like to get some third party opinions on this. thank you in advance.

goldenhoarde

first off be careful what you accept. As you could be held to it

Second i would try and dig out as many bills as possible that have an actual meter reading on it, not estimated. If you can get the one from when the meter was read first you could use that as a marker as it would show they have been consistently reading it wrong.

Other thing is what was the usual bill amount like? As if this was very low they would say you should have notified them as you should have know it was probably not right..

If you can consistiently show the readings were read wrong ask for a final letter outlining their position and open a complaint with the energy regulator

Melendez

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January

We can't give legal advice here. I'd suggest getting onto an actual solicitor for that.

goldenhoarde

January wrote: »

We can't give legal advice here. I'd suggest getting onto an actual solicitor for that.

mine is not legal advice I hope! Its just where i would start

Cabaal

OP, I'm curious what were you bills when you did get them, for how much?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

A) How much were your previous bills.

You used the product

C) The discount is quite fair

D) the CER will probably go for something like paying the arrears over 4 years.

corriefan

Thanks for replies. January i phrased my query wrong, I wasnt looking for legal advice as such, just if anyone had any definite information regarding my consumer rights. I posted this in the first place as we just want a fair resolution and not go down the road of having to get an 'actual solicitor'.

As for the other replies, our bill was usually around the €100 mark, which did not ring alarm bells for the following reasons:
- we live in a bungalow
- we put a lot of money into insulation, A energy rated appliances, etc to cut down on such future costs
- The lady who reads our meter has been doing it for years, in fact as long as i am living here (we built near my homeplace) so assumed everything was ok with the readings.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

€100? That is very little. My bungalow is also well insulated, has not only energy efficient appliances and lights but also 2 adults who are very energy conscious;yet our 2 monthly bill is at least €190. My colleagues average about €260. hat said 6400 seems high for a 4 year under-reading but the meter reading does not lie (if it is now properly read). €100 would have rung alarm bells for me and anybody I know.

corriefan

Thanks for your reply. I know from two neighbours, one in an old house that their bills average about €150. I dont know of anyone in a similar house that would have a bill for €260, that seems to be quite high.

Maybe its the worry of the prospect of having to pay such a lot of money has me deluded into assuming that the meter reader should have read our meter right all along, especially a local lady who has been doing it for as long as I remember my homeplace being read. We received and paid all our bills in good faith; I dont believe the onus was on us to make sure our bills were properly calculated in case we were being undercharged. In what other service industry would that happen?

Melendez

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Melendez

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Cabaal

Thing to remember here are the following:
- ESB Networks and Electric Ireland (formally ESB Customer Supply) operate separately and have done for many years now.
- ESB Networks do all the readings for all suppliers but the only guarantee three readings a year (afaik).
- Outside of the readings bills are estimated but customer's are always encouraged to submit meter readings themselves.
- Sure you can argue that you could have paid less to another supplier over the 4 year period, but they can also argue that prior to this undercharge being identified Electric Ireland never stopped you changing suppliers and availing from slightly cheaper charges...so this isn't really a good argument to go in with.,

In my view they are well within their rights to look for usage to be paid for and imho if I got a bill of around 100e on each bill I certainly would have been concerned as it seems very very low.

Your best bet at this stage is given the currency climate and how money can be tight is to come to some sort of repayment scheme, if that means they get their money back over say many many years (say 8 years) then so be it as you I suppose you can certainly argue that you acted in good faith.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Obviously you will have to pay back the bill but given that it has been four years of incompetence on behalf of ESB Networks I think you can negotiate something better than they are offering.

But more important than what you can negotiate in terms of benefits is paying attention to what you are being charged for and what you were charged at over the last years.

First of all if you have been only charged 1/10 of electricity usage over the last four years check all your bills to see if you have been hit by under usage charges at all sure they only came in in the last year but if you had to pay any of them then you should get a full refund.

Also you should pay attention to what price per unit they are billing you at. Are they asking for four years electricity at todays per unit prices or past per unit prices. Its around 18 cent per unit at the moment and around 15 cent per unit in 2008. Quiet a difference so find out what they are charging you.

Best of luck

corriefan

They told us that the last digit on our reading was not counted, but there is no way we got 90% of our electricity for free over the past four years, that would mean our bills would have averaged approx €1000

I also do not expect to have to pay nothing at all, I just dont think €350 from €6400 is fair. In this climate to be facing a bill of €6000 is daunting no matter what the repayment schedule is. I am a bit surprised by some of the reactions; would anyone expect to have to pay another service provider eg a builder extra because they didnt price a job right? I dont think so, they would at the loss of it. If I had been undercharged bank fees for four years, would people have the same reaction?

Electric Ireland is a huge company, they have made and admitted a big mistake to us. They never sent a bill or notification of such a huge once off demand for payment, we have a direct debit and this bill was presented for payment and I did not have it in my account. If the money had been there, it would be gone now. I really dont think that is acceptable to expect anyone to pay over €6000 just like that.

This is also not an isolated case, if anyone would like to check the 'talk to' thread. thanks for your replies

gerryk

corriefan wrote: »

They told us that the last digit on our reading was not counted, but there is no way we got 90% of our electricity for free over the past four years, that would mean our bills would have averaged approx €1000

Which, over 4 years, would be more like 24k, not the 6 odd thousand you are being billed. Something doesn't add up.

How did this go for you OP?

corriefan

Hi gerryk,

Thanks for the post which is timely because we have just been told by the CER that we have to go back to Electric Ireland and complete the complaints process before they can take it any further. This is fair enough only we were told by Electric Ireland to go to the CER as we could not resolve this between us????? :eek: So we are back to square one after six months of toing and froing.

It would be a bad joke only for the fact that it is hanging over us and is getting stressful. We cannot be billed separately apparently since this started and havent been able to pay any of our ESB in the meantime which is going to leave us with a large bill in the future...when this eventually gets sorted.