Clubs and Socs giving more of their funding to ULSU

Stephen_Byrne

What do people think of this

http://www.thomondstudenttimes.com/index.php/news/217-bailouttwo

Polar Ice

Thanks for making the short news piece. There has been a very lackluster discussion on this so far.

freyners

first Ive heard of this in detail, thanks TST.

Id be cautious about this until I hear more

Jester252

They still have to vote for it so it not set in stone
The ULSU a spoiled child that asks for a toy every time it walks by the shop but will the C&S be the fed up parent that buys it for him/her every time?

spacemunter

looks like clubs and socs will be paying for paddy rocketts taxis this year. I suppose that's one way for the SU to save money

wnolan1992

spacemunter wrote: »

looks like clubs and socs will be paying for paddy rocketts taxis this year. I suppose that's one way for the SU to save money

Good one dood! :rolleyes:

Jester252

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Good one dood! :rolleyes:

Well as I see it C&S do more for student then the SU

wnolan1992

Jester252 wrote: »

Well as I see it C&S do more for student then the SU

Didn't dispute that, was merely scoffing at spacemunter's comment.

Jester252

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Didn't dispute that, was merely scoffing at spacemunter's comment.

While his comment might be wrong it does have some weight behind it

reunion

TST are a real student new source. An focal is costing students 10k a year and dispite the editor being the C&S council chair, no news exists about the SU requiring another bailout.

I'm debating putting a motion into the SU AGM in two weeks to scrap an focal, such a waste of money.

Anyway back on topic, the SU are basically asking for 87k as rent instead of the 3.8% of capitation (17k) it has been for a few years. What I have a problem with is any income they generate (they get a % of shop turnover or profit (I can't remember which one)) they keep. This should be split 1/3rd to the SU and 2/3rd to C&S.

The SU has gotten itself in this mess by spending and hiring more than it actually can. While I'd rather not see firings, the only change has been getting rid of 2 sabbats.

Here are the links to the files circulated to C&S.

ULSU budget presentation
SU proposal on funding re capitation
ULSU budget 2012/2013
C&S agreement with the SU


Note: The SU budget does not include the €174K. So the expenditure of the SU is actually ~€484k.

SUGeneral manager

At the most recent meetings of Student Council and Clubs and Societies Council a proposed budget was presented to the two parallel governance structures of ULSU so that these two bodies can decide, as is their right and duty, how ULSU will spend its money over the next twelve months. Presenting budgets on an annual basis is normal and proper procedure in an organisation such as a Students Union which is accountable to its members. No request for a bailout was made, no bailout is expected; the article in TST is therefore misleading. ULSU will not comment further on the matter of our governance structure or financial procedures through boards or any similar publicly accessible forum as we believe that such business is relevant only to our members and not the public at large, however we would encourage all ULSU members to engage through Student Council/ Exec and C&S Council/ Exec on such important matters. We also welcome comment through ULSU website and facebook page etc.

As General Manager of ULSU I must request that all boards users cease making allegations and innuendo about ULSU officers or staff through publicly accessible and non verifiable media such as boards. Genuine concerns should be brought directly to the attention of myself sugeneralmanager@ul.ie or the President supresident@ul.ie immediately, otherwise such comments are seen as malicious and damaging to ULSU and will be dealt with accordingly. (PM)

wnolan1992

This'll go down well....

freyners

wnolan1992 wrote: »

This'll go down well....

you get the popcorn. ill get the 3d glasses

reunion

This isn't the first time the SU has made threats to students.

auldpooky

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

As General Manager of ULSU I must request that all boards users cease making allegations and innuendo about ULSU officers or staff through publicly accessible and non verifiable media such as boards.

Are you asking people not to lie on the internet ?

wnolan1992

freyners wrote: »

you get the popcorn. ill get the 3d glasses

Where's Sid when you need him for a laugh? :pac:


You'd think they'd realise by now that when they go in heavy handed with threats that they invariably come out looking worse than if they'd stayed shtum... (only notable exception being the reaction to the email the sent to ulsuelect last year, when most people seemed understanding of their position IIRC)

wnolan1992

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

No request for a bailout was made, no bailout is expected; the article in TST is therefore misleading.

I'll admit to not really understanding the documents reunion posted, but it seems to me that if ULSU are looking to get more from the Capitation, money that was previously allocated to C+S, and need C+S's approval to do so, then it very much IS a bailout.

ULSU will not comment further on the matter of our governance structure or financial procedures through boards or any similar publicly accessible forum as we believe that such business is relevant only to our members and not the public at large, however we would encourage all ULSU members to engage through Student Council/ Exec and C&S Council/ Exec on such important matters. We also welcome comment through ULSU website and facebook page etc.

As General Manager of ULSU I must request that all boards users cease making allegations and innuendo about ULSU officers or staff through publicly accessible and non verifiable media such as boards. Genuine concerns should be brought directly to the attention of myself sugeneralmanager@ul.ie or the President supresident@ul.ie immediately, otherwise such comments are seen as malicious and damaging to ULSU and will be dealt with accordingly. (PM)

Yeah... because Facebook isn't a "publicly accessible forum" at all is it... I'm sure EVERYONE that views the ULSU page is a member...


F*cking hell.... *facepalm*

Jester252

Good to see student allow to question their union that they are paying for

Polar Ice

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

No request for a bailout was made, no bailout is expected

The topic of discussion in this thread is the current proposal to C&S council from the SU for ~115k of C&S money to be allocated to the SU. Under the current proposal, C&S would receive no return on its money.

From a C&S points of view: If it isn't a bailout, what is it? An indefinite term zero interest loan? A Gift?
From an individual students point of view: It's a transfer of funds from one service that is provided to them (C&S) to another service that is provided to them (SU).

If you don't agree with the term bailout, then just see it as a headline TST used to attract attention. They don't use the word in the article.
TST correctly opens the article by saying: UNIVERSITY of Limerick Students’ Union General Manager tabled a motion to restructure the method by which capitation is split at last Tuesdays Clubs and Societies Council.

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

the article in TST is therefore misleading

That isn't a fair summary of the article. The article itself seems fair and fact based. It might have a slightly sensational title, but besides that it's hard to argue with the article. (I have never written or contributed to a TST article)

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

ULSU will not comment further on the matter of our governance structure or financial procedures through boards or any similar publicly accessible forum

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

We also welcome comment through ULSU website and facebook page etc.

The ULSU website doesn't facilitate discussion. Students might also be weary of using the ULSU facebook page after last semester where the page was moderated a little too intensively at times. The facebook page is as open to the public as boards.ie is.

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

As General Manager of ULSU

There are several way for you to verify that for us. Would you like to verify if you intend to speak from a position of authority?

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

I must request that all boards users cease making allegations and innuendo about ULSU officers or staff through publicly accessible and non verifiable media such as boards.

So far in this thread, no one has said anything about any of the staff in ULSU. It seems like you might be trying to stop an open discussion about an article on TST. Your comment seems rash.

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

Genuine concerns should be brought directly to the attention of myself

Just a few to start with:
a) There is clear conflict between the current proposal and the previous agreement between the SU and C&S after the previous gifting of 60k to the SU. How does the SU propose to address this?
b) In the presentation delivered to C&S Council, the precise amount being requested wasn't referred to. Could you clearly state the total amount of money the SU is proposing C&S give it this year?
c) As the SU is asking for a sizeable percentage of its total costs to be covered by C&S, what plans does the SU have to reduce its revenue shortfall (by lowering costs or increasing income) in order to reduce its reliance on other bodies?

Fishooks12

SUGeneral manager wrote: »

At the most recent meetings of Student Council and Clubs and Societies Council a proposed budget was presented to the two parallel governance structures of ULSU so that these two bodies can decide, as is their right and duty, how ULSU will spend its money over the next twelve months. Presenting budgets on an annual basis is normal and proper procedure in an organisation such as a Students Union which is accountable to its members. No request for a bailout was made, no bailout is expected; the article in TST is therefore misleading. ULSU will not comment further on the matter of our governance structure or financial procedures through boards or any similar publicly accessible forum as we believe that such business is relevant only to our members and not the public at large, however we would encourage all ULSU members to engage through Student Council/ Exec and C&S Council/ Exec on such important matters. We also welcome comment through ULSU website and facebook page etc.

As General Manager of ULSU I must request that all boards users cease making allegations and innuendo about ULSU officers or staff through publicly accessible and non verifiable media such as boards. Genuine concerns should be brought directly to the attention of myself sugeneralmanager@ul.ie or the President supresident@ul.ie immediately, otherwise such comments are seen as malicious and damaging to ULSU and will be dealt with accordingly. (PM)

Yes mein fuhrer!

spurious

As General Manager of ULSU (if indeed you are) you should contact hello@boards.ie and prove it before making all sorts of nonsensical remarks.

Thread closed until you do so,

Thread re-opened. No proof at all that this person is who they purport to be, so just keep that in mind.

deise go deo

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I'll admit to not really understanding the documents reunion posted, but it seems to me that if ULSU are looking to get more from the Capitation, money that was previously allocated to C+S, and need C+S's approval to do so, then it very much IS a bailout.

It's not a bailout, Philips contention is that C&S is under paying for the services it recives by being part of the SU (Heat and Light in the SU Building, accountancy etc) Given that currently C&S is only paying about 10% of the €175,000 bill, I would tend to agree with him that C&S should pay more.

However if C&S Council accept Philips proposal, C&S will in effect be paying 67% of that bill. Personally I don't think C&S should even consider accepting this proposal.
The amount C&S pay twords the bill should be proportional to the amount it benefits from the services provided. I don't know how much C&S benefits but I would imagine it is less than the Union its self.

Jester252

So now the SU whats C&S to pay their way but SU services that are a drain on the budget remain. Can someone explain this? If they get the money I would like to see the SU actually try and interact with the student that are paying for them.

sceptre

FYI: After checking with the SU via email, I can confirm that SUGeneral manager is who he claims to be.

kragmite

haha I didn't realise that when they got rid of the communications officer last year that the General Manager would take over the responsibility of posting outrageous comments on boards. Thought that was just a Kelly O Brien thing....

Polar Ice

Hot off the press,
A few random quotes from the last C&S council minutes:

"It does mean the C&S will be worse off but the reason you will be worse off this year is that you were getting away with it for years"

"Philip is prepared to answer any questions on how the ULSU propose to spend the money but if you dig to deeply into how downstairs spends its money, downstairs can dig into how you C&S spends your money."

ULSU Math:
It's worth pointing out that Philip incorrectly states how much ULSU are asking for from C&S in this proposal. The correct total amount is 66.66% of the 174k (which equals just shy of 116k). Philip appears to think that the figure he is asking for is Roughly half, 50% of the 174k (equals 87k) but he doesn't state the exact figure according to the minutes.

A few questions:
A) Do you understand the concept of the proposal?
Do you understand the numbers behind this proposal?
C) Do you understand the implications agreeing to a proposal that directly conflicts with a previous agreement between ULSU and C&S
D) Do you know what the ULSU future plans are in order to reduce its dependence on C&S?
E) Given the SU General Manager didn't demonstrate he knows how much he's asking for (according his maths from the minutes), do you think that the SU should reassess the proposal so they better understand what they are proposing?

If you can not answer yes to the first 4 questions, you should be voting to defer/amend the proposal - Any proposal seeking money should be clear and understandable. Tell the SU you want them to make it clearer.
If you can understand all the implications and finance behind it, only then should you be voting yes or no
You can vote no, but I'm betting that the SU will just come back - so it's kinda the same as a defer/amend vote.

Fishooks12

sceptre wrote: »

FYI: After checking with the SU via email, I can confirm that SUGeneral manager is who he claims to be.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that

Squarewave

I think the Clubs & Societies should attach a requirement that a certain percentage of the funding should be spent on public relations training for everyone in the SU.

The training in a nutshell would be: "Stay the f*ck away from facebook or boards or any other public medium so your jumped-up ego and nauseating sense of self-importance hopefully won't add to the mutual detachment between students and the SU"

How do I go about making this a proposal?

Polar Ice

Squarewave wrote: »

I think the Clubs & Societies should attach a requirement that a certain percentage of the funding should be spent on public relations training for the SU officers.

The training in a nutshell would be: "Stay the f*ck away from facebook or boards or any other public medium so your jumped-up ego and nauseating sense of self-importance hopefully won't add to the mutual detachment between students and the SU"

How do I go about making this a proposal?

The deadline for ULSU AGM motions is tomorrow (Thursday). Email supresident@ul.ie before 6pm

Stephen_Byrne

Some further developments - Budget rejected this evening.
http://www.thomondstudenttimes.com/index.php/news/224-clubssocsbudget

reunion

Stephen_Byrne wrote: »

Some further developments - Budget rejected this evening.
http://www.thomondstudenttimes.com/index.php/news/224-clubssocsbudget

The meeting was a mess as it didn't have all the facts and some people weren't allow make their point.

The article states 115k however this is not the case. The subvention is currently not given to c&s nor is it required to be given to c&s. So the money the SU is asking for is in the region of ~82k. Keep in mind we would also be paying ~18k to the SU regardless (used to 8% (~41k) now is 3.5% ~18k). This leaves the SU short 64k.

The SU is asking for this money, for this year only. Not a permanent change (though a similar budget would be suggested yearly). Charging C&S an additional 64k after the capitation split is cosmetic. Taking 64k before hand is little bit more transparent (I don't know where the 3.5% went the last few years but I would know where the ~82k is going).


It was pointed out that paying half of the 174k was fair, we would have been paying around that...

It was also going to be said that, there was going to be a working group to determine how to split any additional income generated by the SU and a potential issue of reserves (both have legal reserves).