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xLexie

Ella wrote: »

Lets say there are few people who bring out the worst in everyone and all those people get sick of those few after a while and stand up to them. Surely the few people winding up everyone should be banned and not the people sticking up for themselves?

There's only so much constant snapping and bitchy comments one can take before snapping back and I think that just brings the entire thread down, it's a nasty atmosphere.

IvyTheTerrible

Ella wrote: »

It's not about not liking someone. It's about a small few sniping at others when they dont agree with someone. It's constant. And that stupid roll-eyes smiley should be banned from boards. It causes nothing but trouble.

I don't know, I see sniping from both sides if I'm being honest.

Wibbs

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

You can't ban people cos "the rest" don't like them though. Hardly fair. There is an ignore button.

This. Oh god, so much this. There's even one built into our heads. More of us should use it.

Whispered

There seems to be history between a few posters which others don't know about. It's like there are one or two posters waiting in the wings for a particular poster to say something, they disagree with nearly everything that poster says and post in an almost aggressive way towards them, then when that poster gets fed up and mentions it they're accused of being childish and whiny.

I know particular cases can't be mentioned, but I do agree that bitching elsewhere is very insincere. I have no idea who was involved in that by the way, so no personal attack intended from me.

Going out of your way to disagree with another particular poster or accuse them of whining makes some parts of the thread uncomfortable to read.

I get that some posters seem to use the thread to vent, rant or moan without actually getting into a discussion with others. I don't really see a problem to be honest. It can be frustrating to read at times, but then so can the women who seem to just be waiting for a chance to complain and bitch about this.

As for a clique, in my opinion it's there, but I don't think it's in a bad way, some posters know each other outside boards or have been chatting for a long time. I've found most people very friendly to be honest and I've grown to really genuinely like some of the personalities posting in LWL.

It think it's very important to point out at this stage, that the chat thread is only there because the "what made you happy/sad/angry" thread descended into chat. We as mods made a decision to allow a chat thread as a result - something which had previously been banned for many of the reasons we are discussing today. So if someone is doing the reverse, and using the chat thread as the "what made you happy/sad/angry" thread, we aren't going to stop them doing that.

Princess Peach

I guess some of the more non chatty, or ranting/venting posts might come from posters who in the past would use the what made you smile/cry/angry thread. I know I'd sometimes come in and make a post like that without reading posts above me or trying to engage.

I use other forums that have a brooding/ranting thread, so as not to bring down the chat thread if it was really just to let some feeling out without wanting it to be a big discussion. Could be started here if someone wanted to. Wouldn't need to be a sticky or anything, if it's not popular it will fall back itself then.

Princess Peach

I was posting mine when Whoopsie put up hers

Absolutely PP, if someone wants to re-invent the what made you happy/sad etc thread they would be more than welcome to do so, the original breakdowns of that thread (the emotions weren't always merged!) was why I started posting in tLL in the first place

dfx-

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Inconsistent modding strikes again. Why do decent posters keep getting banned from the chat thread while the wind up merchants get to stay?

What is a decent poster? There are posters different people agree and disagree with, but decent?

A decent poster can derail a thread just as quickly as anyone else.

Dolbert

Princess Peach wrote: »

I use other forums that have a brooding/ranting thread, so as not to bring down the chat thread if it was really just to let some feeling out without wanting it to be a big discussion. Could be started here if someone wanted to. Wouldn't need to be a sticky or anything, if it's not popular it will fall back itself then.

+1 on the separate venting/ brooding thread idea. Constant moaning is very hard to listen to and can be difficult to tune out, I don't think it's realistic to expect people not to become frustrated

homemadecider

Dolbert wrote: »

+1 on the separate venting/ brooding thread idea. Constant moaning is very hard to listen to and can be difficult to tune out, I don't think it's realistic to expect people not to become frustrated

I hope I'm allowed post on here - what Dol said above hits the nail on the head for me. It's very difficult to listen to non-stop whinging and not say anything, it sort of ruins tLL for me. Perhaps two threads - one for chat and then one for 'get it off your chest' or something like that?

In saying that, I am now using the Ignore button and think it is the best thing on boards ever!

Whispered

Dolbert wrote: »

+1 on the separate venting/ brooding thread idea. Constant moaning is very hard to listen to and can be difficult to tune out, I don't think it's realistic to expect people not to become frustrated

I wasn't a poster in TLL when there was a venting/brooding thread. Was one of the rules that you don't tend to chat in it? Like if someone was having a crappy day and wanted to complain about it, have someone sympathise, maybe have their mind taken off it, would they post in the LWL or in the moan thread?

Being able to complain and have someone say they understand, poor you or even just "hope things get better" is great. If there was a moan thread does that mean nobody can moan in the chat thread? Or is it if you just want to vent without conversation, you use the moan thread, in which case would the ranting forum not suit better?

To me it seems a bit surplus to needs, but then maybe I'm not getting the concept properly.

I totally agree that frustration can kick in around some people, it's only natural in a busy forum.

Honey-ec

Whispered wrote: »

Being able to complain and have someone say they understand, poor you or even just "hope things get better" is great. If there was a moan thread does that mean nobody can moan in the chat thread? Or is it if you just want to vent without conversation, you use the moan thread, in which case would the ranting forum not suit better?

To me it seems a bit surplus to needs, but then maybe I'm not getting the concept properly.

I totally agree that frustration can kick in around some people, it's only natural in a busy forum.

To be honest, I wouldn't like to see a "no ranting" rule applied and enforced in the LWL thread. It's a chat thread and people are always going to use it to have a whinge and that's absolutely fair enough. I think it would take a lot away from the thread if people couldn't come in and go "Arrrrgghhhh [insert issue] is wrecking my head today."

The issue, imo, is when some posters are posting the same moans, over and over again. Initially they get sympathy. Then people start getting bored/frustrated and the sympathy turns into constructive advice, which eventually turns to "We don't want to hear it anymore!" when the same poster is on moaning about the same thing for the umpteenth time in so many months.

I can see the frustration from both sides, tbh. The poster doesn't necessarily want advice, they're just looking to vent. But for regular readers who've read this same vent 17 times in 12 months, it starts to look like a pity party. And it can be very tempting to just say "Well why don't you stop moaning and just DO something about it?"

And that's where the danger is - one poster's straight talking is another's personal attack.

daenerysstormborn3

I think it's very hard for a lot of regular posters (I would class myself as a regular poster, in that I use the chat thread almost everyday, multiple times a day) to see the same poster come back time and time again just to talk about the same thing over and over again and never really contribute otherwise to the thread, i.e. chat with everybody else, particularly when the same thing they keep talking about is a divisive issue. Those posters come across as though they are just trying to stir the pot and keep dragging the thread back to their one issue and refuse to listen anytime someone offers them good, solid advice.

I think a lot of the regular posters feel somewhat protective of the chat thread. I don't mean that in a "cliquey" way, I just mean that they enjoy the thread and like it to move freely without being hampered by one poster. As has been said, there are a lot of people who contribute to the chat thread who are very friendly and have known each other for a number of years (both on and off boards) and when the thread is constantly getting interrupted by the same poster and their one issue, they get annoyed, which I think is understandable.

IvyTheTerrible

Honey-ec wrote: »

To be honest, I wouldn't like to see a "no ranting" rule applied and enforced in the LWL thread. It's a chat thread and people are always going to use it to have a whinge and that's absolutely fair enough. I think it would take a lot away from the thread if people couldn't come in and go "Arrrrgghhhh [insert issue] is wrecking my head today."

The issue, imo, is when some posters are posting the same moans, over and over again. Initially they get sympathy. Then people start getting bored/frustrated and the sympathy turns into constructive advice, which eventually turns to "We don't want to hear it anymore!" when the same poster is on moaning about the same thing for the umpteenth time in so many months.

I can see the frustration from both sides, tbh. The poster doesn't necessarily want advice, they're just looking to vent. But for regular readers who've read this same vent 17 times in 12 months, it starts to look like a pity party. And it can be very tempting to just say "Well why don't you stop moaning and just DO something about it?"

And that's where the danger is - one poster's straight talking is another's personal attack.

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I think it's very hard for a lot of regular posters (I would class myself as a regular poster, in that I use the chat thread almost everyday, multiple times a day) to see the same poster come back time and time again just to talk about the same thing over and over again and never really contribute otherwise to the thread, i.e. chat with everybody else, particularly when the same thing they keep talking about is a divisive issue. Those posters come across as though they are just trying to stir the pot and keep dragging the thread back to their one issue and refuse to listen anytime someone offers them good, solid advice.

I think a lot of the regular posters feel somewhat protective of the chat thread. I don't mean that in a "cliquey" way, I just mean that they enjoy the thread and like it to move freely without being hampered by one poster. As has been said, there are a lot of people who contribute to the chat thread who are very friendly and have known each other for a number of years (both on and off boards) and when the thread is constantly getting interrupted by the same poster and their one issue, they get annoyed, which I think is understandable.

And why not use the ignore button?

EDIT: I'm not being snappy, I'm just curious as to why, if someone is so annoying, that you wouldn't use the ignore button.

krudler

Can I throw my 2c in? I used to post a lot on the chat thread, but recently I haven't as much, more of a lurker, and its because there's way too much bitchiness (not calling anyone a bitch, just the tone at times) between the same posters over and over. And it's turned what used to be a thread that was great craic into a seemingly neverending battle between people who think its too cliquey and others who think they have to offer a differing opinion for almost anything posted.

Yes there's an ignore button, yes you can skim over posts and posters you've no interest in, but I totally get why people get frustrated looking at the same posts from the same people over and over and over again, who treat what should be a chat thread (emphasis on "chat" since it morphed into that from the "happy/sad" original version) as a personal blog, with hourly updates of inane stuff repeated ad nauseam.

There's a difference between:

"Having a crappy day but roll on the weekend, going for dinner with the OH, that'll cheer me up, anyone suggest a restaraunt?" cue chat and contributions from other posters that naturally roll into topics of conversation, its how a discussion form works.

And

"sad today "
"hungry..might have toast"
"feel tired"
"still sad"

One is contributing, one is just posting a mood with no inclination to invite chat from other people, and it drives people away and winds people up.

Whispered

I'm not sure how a thread can be interrupted by a poster, if other posters don't want to engage in things then they don't have to. I actually found myself thinking similarly about a poster recently who in one post complains about something, then in another talks about doing the very thing they complain about. I mentioned it in a post, but declined to go further with it because it would have looked like an attack. It is frustrating, but at the same time you can't police who posts in the thread, all you can do is ignore it.

From an outside point of view, there are one or two posters who DO personally attack other certain posters. There may be history there, but for those of us who haven't been posting all that long, all you see is someone who might be seen as a "weaker" poster (for want of a better word, maybe needier would be better?) being jumped on by the same one or two "stronger" posters.

The same one or two posters, I wouldn't engage with, or disagree with for fear of similar repercussions. I like posting in LWL, I don't want that to be ruined because at one stage I might have dared to have a disagreement with those posters I'm thinking of.

Honey-ec

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

And why not use the ignore button?

EDIT: I'm not being snappy, I'm just curious as to why, if someone is so annoying, that you wouldn't use the ignore button.

Because sometimes you don't want to ignore everything they say - maybe about 40% of it. And what do you do about the people who do continue to engage with them? Ignore all of them too?

The ignore button isn't always a catch-all solution.

Mind you, I don't know if there is a catch-all solution for the problem being discussed. It does seem sometimes that there's a blanket instruction of "Use the ignore button" to some posters, when, perhaps, some posters also need to be told "Toughen up. Not everyone is bullying you."

daenerysstormborn3

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

And why not use the ignore button?

EDIT: I'm not being snappy, I'm just curious as to why, if someone is so annoying, that you wouldn't use the ignore button.

I do use the ignore button. I was just trying to explain why I think people get annoyed in the way they do. And as has been said, posters who constantly drag things back to their one issue are attention seeking and post and post and post until they get what they're looking for. You could end up with a whole page of ignored posts. And then someone might quote the person you have on your ignore list and it just highlights to you once again that that same poster has dragged the thread back to that one issue.

Also, I don't see it as fair that one poster gets punished for being a straight talker and then another poster gets to continue on with the same thing over and over again. Is it not common sense that after a while people are bound to get sick of the re-runs and want something different? Yes, there is the ignore button and yes, this is the internet blah blah blah but as I said already, there are posters who have been using the chat thread for years and they are "protective" of it. Isn't that a good thing? That it is so popular and well liked?

Neyite

There are a couple of posters on the thread I've no interest in engaging with. For my own reasons. As well as that, there are a couple more who I dont have any gripe with, but simply dont have anything in common with. But I just ignore them and the replies tbh.

I know its hard if there are repetitive posts from a user - hell I'm guilty of that myself I'm sure with posters probably rolling their eyes and thinking "not another post about her kid ffs!" but I dont offer advice generally unless its asked for. And I see that issues sometimes occur on the chat thread: somebody posts something, someone else gives unasked for advice and it escalates from there - the original poster defending why they cant do X,Y or Z and the replies pile on top. Both sides get frustrated.

In addition, I dont think there is a need for a "mood" thread - we already have something very similar in the "things you want to say..." and it works well.

Why not report posts that dont seem to be about chat, let the mods decide to action it or not/ move it to "the things you want to say thread" if they deem it off topic.

I only really got the importance of reporting posts when I started modding. Now I tend to report more. If reporting means that the thread we all love keeps ticking along nicely then why not help that.

So my tuppence is:

• Report posts more
• Move non chat to things you want to say thread
• Have a guideline about not giving advice unless poster asks for it.

daenerysstormborn3

Neyite wrote: »

• Have a guideline about not giving advice unless poster asks for it.

I get what you're saying here and it does totally happen that someone says "blah happened" and immediately people will come along with unsolicited advice but there are also plenty of instances of posters saying "blah happened, anyone any advice on what I can do?" and they just keep throwing back the bait until they get what they want and if they don't get what they want they have a poor me whinge.

I think neyite's first two suggestions are wonderful, but I don't like the no advice thing. Sometimes we don't ask if we don't think there is anything that can be done but would appreciate it anyway.

Wibbs

OK some good suggestions coming in folks. Keep em coming.

However NO MORE on specific incidences or specific posters and we all know what that's about so it ends here. Thanks.

Wibbs

RacoonQueen your post was deleted. Please read again what I said the post before yours.

Wibbs wrote: »

However NO MORE on specific incidences or specific posters and we all know what that's about so it ends here. Thanks.

username123

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Think reporting things is a bit sad to be honest, but thats just my opinion.

There is nothing sad about reporting posts.

I wouldnt like to think that someone would read "reporting posts is a bit sad" and then not report personal abuse because of it.

As a matter of fact, as a result of my own experiences on boards, I am far more inclined to report posts when someone is out of order.

RacoonQueen

Wibbs wrote: »

RacoonQueen your post was deleted. Please read again what I said the post before yours.

If you looked at the time stamp you would have seen that I was posting at the same time as you.

Maybe you could have pm'd me to check eh?!

Unreal.

Edit: and not I've seen your post I don't see what relevance it has to warrant mine being deleted.

Twee.

Reporting posts is not "sad". It's a very helpful way for mods to identify issues, especially in fast moving threads/discussions. We can't all be at the computer all day long, watching and waiting for something to "mod" to appear, so if users have an issue it's a lot easier for us to be notified about it through a RP.

clairefontaine

username123 wrote: »

There is nothing sad about reporting posts.

I wouldnt like to think that someone would read "reporting posts is a bit sad" and then not report personal abuse because of it.

As a matter of fact, as a result of my own experiences on boards, I am far more inclined to report posts when someone is out of order.

It's sad that it gets to the point that you have to report posts. Bar personal abuse, I have no idea what is acceptable here and what isnt.

There are a few things I have noticed end up causing problems, not just on TLL but in general on message boards.

1. nitpicking

2. A bunch of people responding to one person with the same response. Why do you have to repeat it if someone already said it?

3. A poster assuming they have esp and can read the mind of another and even lay out what there motives are. [Presumed omnicience]

4. denial of another person's experience. [eg. I had to wait forever on a queue at the supermarket. R: "no you didn't, there are hardly any lines there." [Again presumed omniscience]

5. Putting words in other people's mouths.

6. Telling other people how they should live their lives or raise their kids when they don't ask for it.

Then you have things which aren't nasty but just don't add anything like "me too" or +1 or sentences that exclude subject and verbs. That isn't necessarily nasty or anything, but it deteriorates quality, not sure if that is important here or not.

And ultimately the flipping back and forth of whether this is an affirmation forum like Islam or a discussion forum, and if it's a discussion forum than by its nature it has to take criticism, which is not the same as persecution. If this is vague and confusing than you can't blame people for getting it wrong.

Wibbs

RacoonQueen wrote: »

If you looked at the time stamp you would have seen that I was posting at the same time as you.

Incorrect, it was ten minutes after mine. Plenty of time to see the warning

Maybe you could have pm'd me to check eh?!

Unreal.

From the charter(and you're around long enough to know this is a sitewide rule)

[Do not] Argue with a moderator instruction in thread. This is considered derailing a thread. If you have an issue with a moderator instruction or warning, please PM one or more of the other moderators.

Edit: and not I've seen your post I don't see what relevance it has to warrant mine being deleted.

I see the relevance(in the very last line of your deleted post), as do my fellow mods. Like I said we all know what and who you're referring to. Do it again, or derail the thread as above and you'll be banned from this forum. Thank you.

Wibbs

clairefontaine wrote: »

It's sad that it gets to the point that you have to report posts. Bar personal abuse, I have no idea what is acceptable here and what isnt.

That's why we have a charter and said charter has stood up pretty well in the six years since this forum was born. Indeed if you want to have a gander at the "quality" of the early posts from drive by posters dropping in have a look at the very first page of this forum.

There are a few things I have noticed end up causing problems, not just on TLL but in general on message boards.

1. nitpicking

2. A bunch of people responding to one person with the same response. Why do you have to repeat it if someone already said it?

3. A poster assuming they have esp and can read the mind of another and even lay out what there motives are. [Presumed omnicience]

4. denial of another person's experience. [eg. I had to wait forever on a queue at the supermarket. R: "no you didn't, there are hardly any lines there." [Again presumed omniscience]

5. Putting words in other people's mouths.

6. Telling other people how they should live their lives or raise their kids when they don't ask for it.

Then you have things which aren't nasty but just don't add anything like "me too" or +1 or sentences that exclude subject and verbs. That isn't necessarily nasty or anything, but it deteriorates quality, not sure if that is important here or not.

Much of that is just human nature and why we see it repeated across discussion boards across the web. It tends to be less here IMHO. EG +1 with nothing added stuff is a lot less in evidence on Boards and tLL. That's what the thanks button is for. It's been a long time since I saw a solitary +1 anywhere on Boards.

And ultimately the flipping back and forth of whether this is an affirmation forum like Islam or a discussion forum, and if it's a discussion forum than by its nature it has to take criticism, which is not the same as persecution. If this is vague and confusing than you can't blame people for getting it wrong.

Criticism is fine, whataboutery - which he have had waaaay too much of in the past - is not. Again the charter is a pretty good blueprint for this. Sure it can be tweaked and improved and hopefully will be.