The value of Estate Agents in an Property Register environment

68Murph68

I think this is worthy of a separate topic (as opposed to clogging up the sticky)

Basically I think its possibly worthwhile to discuss what exactly estate agents bring to the table given the property register?

With prices available for all to see, the idea of estate agents having insider expert knowledge on the state of the market is surely gone out the window.

Personally I'd be of the ilk that would had said previously that estate agents do not offer value for money and now with the insider knowledge argument removed am very hard-pressed to see what they bring to the table, beyond taking care of some clerical work and showing viewers around a property. However the prices they charge for this is very much out of line with the effort involved.

Some people will probably continue to use estate agents to avoid hassle but I find it hard not to see a trend develops where they are used in less and less transaction.

Can anyone see anything but a reduced role for estate agents in the future?

Victor

The information in the register is somewhat limited. It doesn't list:

Property type ( this can be easily determined in some cases)
Site size
Property type
Freehold / leasehold
Property condition
BER
Planning permissions and zoning
Parking spaces
Funding / mortgage issues
Extenuating factors

In some cases, the address is misspelled, even in the wrong county - on this basis it isn't unreasonable to think that there are other data errors, e.g. did someone really spend €235,000 on a property in Skerries that is less than 38 sq metres? It seemed to be advertised as 3-4 bedroom 125m2 http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=608458

StillWaters

I don't think it will make much difference to the work of an EA. They will work the same as they so in the UK or any other country that has a price register. Market the property, liaise with potential purchasers, relay and advise on offers to their clients etc.

68Murph68

Victor wrote: »

The information in the register is somewhat limited. It doesn't list:

Property type ( this can be easily determined in some cases)
Site size
Property type
Freehold / leasehold
Property condition
BER
Planning permissions and zoning
Parking spaces
Funding / mortgage issues
Extenuating factors

In some cases, the address is misspelled, even in the wrong county - on this basis it isn't unreasonable to think that there are other data errors, e.g. did someone really spend €235,000 on a property in Skerries that is less than 38 sq metres? It seemed to be advertised as 3-4 bedroom 125m2 http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=608458

That fact that there are some errors in the property register really is a bit tangential to the issue though.

The increased visibility in terms of the market prices is a game changer for me in terms of the need for estate agents.

I'm not saying they will disappear completely but I think their role will be massively reduced.

In the current economic climate with the easy availability of prices in the area, I fail to see what estate agents bring to the table in terms of value for money.

68Murph68

StillWaters wrote: »

I don't think it will make much difference to the work of an EA. They will work the same as they so in the UK or any other country that has a price register. Market the property, liaise with potential purchasers, relay and advise on offers to their clients etc.

Do you think they will have to reduce the fees they charge?
Do you think that a number of estate agents will close?

I would argue that in 90% of cases, a seller is in an equivalent or far better position to complete all of the following

• Market the property - what does this involve - take some photos, put up sign, add to websites
• Liaise with potential purchasers - I would say that people are far better off talking to potential purchasers themselves rather than involving an intermediary who at best adds no value and at worst just confuses things.
• Relay and advise on offers to their clients - I fail to see how an estate agent is going to advise any better than anyone who has a reasonable head on their shoulders who does some even some basic research?

Sure there will be lazy people who don't want the hassle of selling a property themselves but to anyone half capable I would be arguing that

1) if you are selling a property you will always care a hell of a lot more about getting the best price for your house than an estate agent

2) is the money better off in our pocket or an estate agent's?

Throw in the general view of estate agents, I can't help but see that there will be a serious decrease in the number of estate agents in the next few years.

StillWaters

I certainly wouldnt sell without an EA. I'm not lazy, just time poor, and I don't want to be taking calls from messers etc. I also think they are professionals, and would do the job far better than me.

I'm not sure about their fees, are they in line with the UK? Yes, I think some will close, when you see the small volumes of sales in some towns as shown by the database, you wonder how they have held on for so long.

riclad

IF theres 2 or 3 bidders estate agent deals with them, and with people who want to view .They deal with marketing.if you want your home on myhome ie or daft.ie
i think you need to have an estate agent.
No ones gonna view or bid on your house if they don,t know its for sale.
even before the property register you could look on the web to find the average price of a house in an area ,or town.IF you see a house for sale, no one living in it ,
it s likely to be a sale by order of a bank or owner has passed away.
People still buy newspapers even though you can read the news on the net.
I think most people will still use estate agents to sell , just because a house down the road sold for
130 k, doesnt mean you can say ,i,ll get 130 .
i think many estate agents have closed already,
due to low no of transactions, the slowdown in the economy.

ted1

Vendors will know how much near buy houses ate going for and won't be fooled by the agent that says he can sell it for x amount as oppose to others who are being realistic.

ted1

Victor wrote: »

The information in the register is somewhat limited. It doesn't list:

Property type ( this can be easily determined in some cases)
Site size
Property type
Freehold / leasehold
Property condition
BER
Planning permissions and zoning
Parking spaces
Funding / mortgage issues
Extenuating factors

In some cases, the address is misspelled, even in the wrong county - on this basis it isn't unreasonable to think that there are other data errors, e.g. did someone really spend €235,000 on a property in Skerries that is less than 38 sq metres? It seemed to be advertised as 3-4 bedroom 125m2 http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=608458

Victor your giving easte agents to much credit, my a solicter will look into planning, parking, freehold/leashold etc.

BBDBB

Its perfectly possible for joe public to sell their own property, but I wouldnt advise it as in my experience most members of the public havent a clue about the service that they get from a decent estate agent.

Putting your house on the market at an accurate price in order to sell, an estate agent has up to date factual data on what properties are currently being marketed at in terms of price and condition, more importantly what interest that is getting from the public and what serious interest its getting from buyers. He or she will also have a very good idea of what property is actually selling for. Id offer that most members of teh public have a figure in mind for their property, usually based upon a quick scan of websites, what they paid for it, what Mrs O'Reilly down the road sold hers for last year and she wouldnt lie. Its often incorrect in terms of a price at which teh property will sell for. Also there is legislation that needs to be followed regarding how property can be advertised (at least in the UK)

Presenting the property - The rise in property makeover shows over teh last two decades has improved the publics knowledge of this but most of us struggle to see our home as potential buyers do. Things we have tolerated and no longer even notice about our home are glaring faults with a prospective buyer who of course wants to get the best house he can for teh least money

Not all advertising mediums are equal, A decent estate agent knows his market well enough to use sites etc that make sales, what basis would joe public choose one? The one with teh biggest advertising budget

A property (priced correctly and advertised in the right place) will attract interest. Some of it is just nosey neighbour syndrome, those need to be weeded out. A skilled agent will ask questions and listen and probe to uncover the buyers needs AND current situation. If you want to sell, wouldnt you like to know the viability of the buyer before you start involving solicitors in a transaction process? How would you rate the skills and willingness of joe public to ask these questions and dig at the answers? Most people are unwilling and/or unskilled at this.

Showing the property - a good agent knows how to conduct viewings (multiple) and unsurprisingly there is a right way and several wrong ways to do this. Again, joe public could be making all teh classic errors and be blissfully un aware of it

Extracting offers - a good agent knows how to listen for buying signals and then dig at them to extract offers. ie a good agent will get more and better offers than a bad agent. Im fairly sure they will get more and better offers than joe public selling his own house

Negotaiting - its not easy, like the internet, egos get involved and people make daft decisions accordingly. A good agent will keep the deal alive and make progress to agree the deal

Sales Progression - Solicitors take their time over conveyancing and sales speed can be improved by a good agent making contact with both sides of teh deal (and both up and down any chain) to keep it progressing. This is where the lies that have been told TO the estate agent now come to light out of ignorance or an attempt to decieve/de-fraud. That all needs sorting, communicating, re-negotiating etc. Lenders can also be awkward, changing their minds over what criteria they use to give someone a mortgage etc

if it all goes smoothly then yes I suppose people do wonder what they get for their fee. But most transactions dont go smoothly and a decent agent is worth every penny

Number_5

riclad wrote: »

People still buy newspapers even though you can read the news on the net.

Not sure your point is working for you. Fewer and fewer people are buying newspapers every year because of online availability.

The more transparent information is in a transaction -> the more commoditized a process becomes -> the less need there is for a middle man.

markas

BBDBB wrote: »

Its perfectly possible for joe public to sell their own property, but I wouldnt advise it as in my experience most members of the public havent a clue about the service that they get from a decent estate agent.

Let me know if you know any agent like you describe

The true is the estate agents are out the because people let them be. There are not that useful, as they are expensive.

Of course one can argue, that they are nice people or that they do a lot of work to sell anything these days... but is this "work" really necessary?

Will the situation change? I do not think so, cause their job is mainly to convince their clients that theire service is essential. And they are pretty good in that. Not much more.

Sleepy

I can't see myself ever using one to sell a house. 3% of the sale price to list the add on daft/myhome, take phonecalls related to the property (no doubt including plenty of messers), show people around the house pointing out the good features whilst glossing over the bad and respond to offers made by prospective buyers?

I'd query the value of an EA to "extract" offers as well: an offer made under pressure from an agent is an offer that's likely to be withdrawn.

If you were talking a flat fee of two or three hundred, sure, I'd consider it. No chance I'd be paying thousands for such basic services though.

BBDBB

markas wrote: »

Let me know if you know any agent like you describe



The true is the estate agents are out the because people let them be. There are not that useful, as they are expensive.



Of course one can argue, that they are nice people or that they do a lot of work to sell anything these days... but is this "work" really necessary?



Will the situation change? I do not think so, cause their job is mainly to convince their clients that theire service is essential. And they are pretty good in that. Not much more.

I know lots of them actually. How many estate agents do you know? I'll make a bet with you that I know many more than you do and that greater sample size increases the odds in my favour.


The same could be said of many service industries and retailers, the useful vs expense argument is entirely subjective. For example, Where do you go to get your car serviced? & why is that? I go to a bloke called Ray who works out of a workshop on a small industrial estate, he knows his onions, gives great service, ie does it quickly and effectively, he is also a very honest bloke, whom I trust to tell me the truth about my car and what it needs doing to make it right. I could of course do it myself, but I dont have the skills, knowledge or desire to "get my hands dirty" inside the nuts and bolts of it. I choose my estate agent on a similar basis


It shouldnt surprise you that some estate agents are nice people, some are complete tools and some are dishonest shysters, same as any people you group together because of their industry. There are dodgy people in most industries. Often that has only a slight bearing on how good they are at selling property


Is their role necessary? well the good ones have the skills as outlined above in my original post. Which you havent addressed. I cant see many members of the public having the skills, knowledge and willingness to ask the awkward questions that an agent does on behalf of and for the benefit of the client.


Most people wouldnt know where to start in describing a property accurately and legally for the details. They wouldnt know how to qualify potential buyers, how to present a property properly and effectively for the market, how to conduct a viewing, how to extract an offer, how to negotiate a deal to the point of agreement or how to get solicitors/lenders/surveyors to get a shift on when needed.


Are the skills necessary? well no, not if you want to get a below market value for your property, spend ages dealing with time wasters, spend money making mistakes, putting people off your property, attracting the wrong sort of buyers, getting frustrated at the stupidity of people, getting annoyed at indecision, amatuerism and people letting their ego do the talking rather than their head. As I said, it can be done, but even if it goes smoothly its a pain. When it starts to unravel and go wrong I doubt most members of the public could or would proceed with it.



I think the situation has already changed. A booming market for estate agents is relatively simple. Its all about listing the property as demand is high, prices rising make property saleable without too much bother, mortgages are relatively easy to get, first time buyers are plentiful and joe public get excited and confident about what their property is "worth". Asking prices are high and often achieved as people jump onboard as its only going to get more expensive. This makes relatively easy money and so attracts people into the industry, encourages companies to recruit and for agents without much experience to set up on their own. In that type of market I think you may well have a point about some agents and what they get paid for what they do.


Given the flat market we have experienced that is no longer the case, the consequences are that sellers have inflated values of what their home is really worth on the market. Buyers have greater choice and know it, so they can be picky and demanding, if you want to know what I mean, go look at the ranting and raving forum for a perspective on what its like to try and deal with such people. So deals start further apart and require greater skill to negotiate. Properties have to be the best deal that they can be to attract interest. As a buyer why would I pay more for your house, when they bloke just down the road is selling a similar one for 10k less?


Making money as an estate agent for the last few years has been hard work, trying to get joe public to see the blindingly obvious is hard work. (yeah yeah, lets all get out the violins) But think of the impact upon the vendor who is trying to sell.


The inexperienced agents, are the ones who didnt react quickly enough to the change in market conditions have mostly gone to the wall through poor business decisions, innappropriate skills, lack of knowledge. (Some also got shafted, indded that happened to some of teh good ones too!)


Think about it, any agent still selling houses in todays conditions is likely to be a shrewd businessman/woman, very knowledgeable about their market, and the transaction process, skilled at dealing with people in unfavourable conditions and presenting properties to the market to their absolute best and getting the best possible prices in the market.


I understand you have a view and would defend your right to hold it, but I dont think you fully appreciate the work done or the value to the vendor of that work.

BBDBB

Sleepy wrote: »

I can't see myself ever using one to sell a house. 3% of the sale price to list the add on daft/myhome, take phonecalls related to the property (no doubt including plenty of messers), show people around the house pointing out the good features whilst glossing over the bad and respond to offers made by prospective buyers?

I'd query the value of an EA to "extract" offers as well: an offer made under pressure from an agent is an offer that's likely to be withdrawn.

If you were talking a flat fee of two or three hundred, sure, I'd consider it. No chance I'd be paying thousands for such basic services though.

thats fair enough, you have that choice

how do you think people who were interested in your property would feel about you, the owner, pointing out the good features? do you think they would consider you credible? how do you think they would react to you glossing over the bad? surely their offers would be withdrawn following your logic, if it werent how do you think they would regard any negotiation process. Simply "glossing over" the "bad features" isnt such a great strategy when trying to get someone to make a major purchase and when you know they will be involving surveyors and solicitors whose job it is to protect them from making a mistake and a lender who wants to ensure that the money is a sound investment?

Incidentally the term "extract" is not the same as putting people under pressure, a skilled agent knows how to steer a conversation and extract an offer without putting pressure upon a potential buyer.

riclad

i think you can get different rates of commission depending on the agent u go to.

Sleepy

BBDBB wrote: »

how do you think people who were interested in your property would feel about you, the owner, pointing out the good features? do you think they would consider you credible?

I doubt it, but no less credible than an agent working on my behalf to flog them the property.

how do you think they would react to you glossing over the bad? surely their offers would be withdrawn following your logic, if it werent how do you think they would regard any negotiation process. Simply "glossing over" the "bad features" isnt such a great strategy when trying to get someone to make a major purchase and when you know they will be involving surveyors and solicitors whose job it is to protect them from making a mistake and a lender who wants to ensure that the money is a sound investment?

I think you read too much into my "gloss over" the bad. I'd mean showing the house at a time when street noise is quiet etc. rather than telling them them that glaringly structural problem demonstrated by a crack in the wall was simply the house "settling" etc.

Incidentally the term "extract" is not the same as putting people under pressure, a skilled agent knows how to steer a conversation and extract an offer without putting pressure upon a potential buyer.

If the prospect has an interest in placing an offer, they'll place an offer. I work in a sales role myself but don't delude myself that any sales I make are because I'm a good salesman, they're because we've identified an area we can help the client with and they see the price we've quoted as being less than the value the solution can provide to them.

I think you're falling into the classic mistake of assuming that the agent has any influence on the buyer's decision to buy. They don't, they facilitate the transaction but ultimately, the prospective buyer makes their own mind up based on the facts to hand.

riclad wrote:

i think you can get different rates of commission depending on the agent u go to.

I'm sure you can. I wouldn't ever pay a commission on a house sale though, the work involved is in no suited to a commission remuneration system: it should be flat fee or billable hours.

daheff

BBDBB wrote: »

Its perfectly possible for joe public to sell their own property, but I wouldnt advise it as in my experience most members of the public havent a clue about the service that they get from a decent estate agent.

Are there any still around??? Most I've heard of or dealt with are chancers

Kosseegan

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm sure you can. I wouldn't ever pay a commission on a house sale though, the work involved is in no suited to a commission remuneration system: it should be flat fee or billable hours.

Whatever about flat fee, which would reduce the incentive to the agent to get the best price, billable hours would be impossible. No agent has a crystal ball. It cannot be predicted how many hours will be spent on a property. How would the customer be able to control the final bill? Agents could charge for every phone call, trip to show the house. They could bring prospective purchasers one at a time rather than in sequence or open view, bring prospective purchasers who will
never buy a particular house in order to force up their billable hours.
Anybody can try and sell their own house. Most people don't. Various attempts to change this have not succeeded. I see very few "For Sale by Owner Signs" around these days.

68Murph68

BBDBB wrote: »

Putting your house on the market at an accurate price in order to sell, an estate agent has up to date factual data on what properties are currently being marketed at in terms of price and condition, more importantly what interest that is getting from the public and what serious interest its getting from buyers.

In terms of judging an accurate price I think that the actual price paid for similar types of houses sold in the area is a far better guide to judging the level of interest. Information in terms of up to date factual data on what properties are currently being marketed at in terms of price and condition in an area is easily available to anyone with an internet connection.

BBDBB wrote: »

There is legislation that needs to be followed regarding how property can be advertised (at least in the UK)

We're clearly discussing the Irish situation here so completely irrelevant.

BBDBB wrote: »

Presenting the property - The rise in property makeover shows over the last two decades has improved the publics knowledge of this but most of us struggle to see our home as potential buyers do. Things we have tolerated and no longer even notice about our home are glaring faults with a prospective buyer who of course wants to get the best house he can for the least money

Do estate agents commonly make suggestions such as this. Never heard of it. In my experience its more a case of ignore any negatives and talk up any positives.

BBDBB wrote: »

Not all advertising mediums are equal, A decent estate agent knows his market well enough to use sites etc that make sales, what basis would joe public choose one? The one with the biggest advertising budget

In Ireland if you are selling a house in I would say advertise with MyHome and Daft I would imagine that you would have close to 100% visibility.

BBDBB wrote: »

A skilled agent will ask questions and listen and probe to uncover the buyers needs AND current situation. If you want to sell, wouldnt you like to know the viability of the buyer before you start involving solicitors in a transaction process? How would you rate the skills and willingness of joe public to ask these questions and dig at the answers? Most people are unwilling and/or unskilled at this.

I think you are vastly over-stating the standard estate agent's skills in relation to this. What sort of advanced interrogation techniques do you think an estate agent has at their disposal compared to an average member of the public?

BBDBB wrote: »

Showing the property - a good agent knows how to conduct viewings (multiple) and unsurprisingly there is a right way and several wrong ways to do this. Again, joe public could be making all teh classic errors and be blissfully unaware of it

Again I think you are over-emphasising the importance of this. Personally I would have a lot more faith in the actual owner of a house showing me around a property as opposed to an estate agent whose knowledge of a property is far far lower. An estate agent with patter and pointing out features is far more likely to put a prospective buyer off than convince them to buy in my opinion.

BBDBB wrote: »

Extracting offers - a good agent knows how to listen for buying signals and then dig at them to extract offers. ie a good agent will get more and better offers than a bad agent. Im fairly sure they will get more and better offers than joe public selling his own house

I don't believe this. Can you explain why you think prospective buyers are far more likely to make offers if an estate agent is involved in the process?
What are they going to do that an ordinary individual cant?

BBDBB wrote: »

Negotaiting - its not easy, like the internet, egos get involved and people make daft decisions accordingly. A good agent will keep the deal alive and make progress to agree the deal

Can you please provide some evidence of this. Just because negotiating isn't easy how does an estate agent make the process any better?

There is little to nothing in terms of incentive for an estate agent to get the best possible price.

A house it sold for €180,000 Estate agent gets 1% plus €500 => Estate agent gets €2,300. If the same house were sold for €190,000 the estate agent would get €2,400. This means that the seller would get an extra €9,900 but the estate agent would only get an extra €100. I find it hard to imagine many estate agent who wouldnt advise the seller to take an initial offer of €180,000

BBDBB wrote: »

Sales Progression - Solicitors take their time over conveyancing and sales speed can be improved by a good agent making contact with both sides of the deal (and both up and down any chain) to keep it progressing. This is where the lies that have been told TO the estate agent now come to light out of ignorance or an attempt to decieve/de-fraud. That all needs sorting, communicating, re-negotiating etc. Lenders can also be awkward, changing their minds over what criteria they use to give someone a mortgage etc

Can you provide some evidence as to how an estate agent actually would improve this process compared to a normal person handling the process?

You make a valiant case but ultimately I fail to see how more and more people selling a property will simply leave estate agents out of the process completely.

BBDBB

Its as much what the Estate agent has learned not to do which are the things that your average member of the public would do. The above example of someone showing a property and glossing over the negative features would be one example

I can assure you I am not over emphasising anything, if a member of the public thinks that he or she can attract, qualify and promote a property that meets the needs of the buyer, can show that property without putting the client off and can extract an offer from a buyer, negotiate with them to the point of agreement and then chivvy along their own transaction then they are within their rights to do it themselves and save themselves the agency fee.

In my experience the vast majority of people would be out of their depth in terms of skills and knowledge of that. Thats before they discovered that prospective buyers tell lies when it suits them, change their mind at the drop of a hat and make daft decisions. Also that lenders move the goal posts re lending criteria, that surveyors are extremely cautious and so are solicitors.
I realise from the above responses that there are those who are cynical of my views, and the belief is that agents have an easy job that isnt worth the fee. I get that, I can think of a few agents over the years who that readily applies to. But I can think of a lot more to whom it does a great dis-service.

Re the specifics Murph, you are entitled to believe what you want, I can only assure you that a good agent would know the property, the vendor, the buyer, both their circumstances, their motivation, their position in the process and ability to proceed. They will have advised the vendor of how to make the property as saleable as possible including the things that vendors can get offended about such as clutter, garish decorating, pet smells, dirt, damage etc. before conducting the viewing. Would Joe public do all that?

You would genuinely be astonished at what some folk think they can just leave because they live like that or think that a purchaser will be able to see past it (I can assure you most cannot)


Re the viewing, one of the purposes of a viewing is to allow a prospective purchaser to picture themseleves in this property as their new home. The biggest obstacle to that is the existing incumbents. Prospective buyers can feel like they are intruding, they feel intimidated and they keep their views about the property to themselves. Its not the polite thing to go into someones house and tell them its too messy, smelly, small. So they nod and smile and act interested and when they get outside they slag the property off, leaving the vendor none the wiser.

A skilled agent has pre-qualified the property and purchasers and already matched them. He should have pre-sold the idea of teh property to them from the details with particular emphasis on how it matches their needs and more influentially their wants. If he is a good "interrigator" he not only knows what they need and want but more influentially WHY they need/want it. He also provides sensitive worded feedback and advice on how to improve the property and or improve its chances of selling.

Re your question about extracting offers & negotiating, what an agent would do that joe public may not even realise
a) they have pre matched the client
b) they have presented the property in the right way, not the wrong way and therefore warm the client to the property rather than putting them off
c) they have listened carefully and observed the purchasers reactions and have spotted the "buying signals" & who the decision maker is.
d) they introduce the idea of an offer to the purchaser at the appropriate time, early? you blow it. late you miss the opportunity.
e) they know their vendor and their situation to an extent where they know what is acceptable and viable to make a deal happen, they know how to tell a purchaser he needs to up his price in a constructive and inoffensive way
f) they know what other interest there is and know how to use that information at the right time and in a non threatening way
g) they are neutral enough to not get into an ego pissing competition when the purchaser tries to get a bargain by criticisng teh property and claiming how much theyd have to spend to put it right usually to outlandish levels
h) they soothe wounded egos and keep the lines of communication open
g) they keep the parties focused on the deal rather than on the unimportant, Ive seen deals worth hundreds of thousands of pounds fall apart over curtain poles because teh agent lost control and let egos get in the way.


I think you have underestimated the value of being an agent who can close a deal and leave both sides happy that they are getting a good deal. Nothing wrong with your maths Murph, but 2-3% of nothing is zero. You cant make someone buy a house, you cant make someone sell. They have to agree it. The role of teh agent is a middle man to make the deal happen. The odds of that are increased by a knowledgable and skilled agent rather than the two members of the public who have seemingly conflicting goals. Best price vs Cheapest house I can get

Re conveyancing, its simply a case of knowing who to ask, what to ask, when to ask it and how to deal with and communicate the answer, especially if it doesnt sound good. If joe public thinks he can do that without scuppering his deal, then good luck to him, but often the cause of "problems" is the caution shown by solictors and surveyors and lenders. They will protect themselves (quite rightly) by projecting the worst case scenario and costing it according to the high end of estimating it. Often their suspicions about a property are unfounded after further investigation but not before the purchasers confidence in his decison to buy has been damaged, especially if his lender says that he wont lend the full amount as a consequence and the vendor has been offended/rattled by the implied criticism.

The question was posed by the OP re the value of the role, Im limited here by time and space to give ever detailed replies, but I can assure you that Im barely scratching the surface with the above.

markas

BBDBB wrote: »

The same could be said of many service industries and retailers, the useful vs expense argument is entirely subjective.

Agree, they are pretty useless, too.

I do accept your theory that there are good ones. But overall, I think, the damage done by the others, outhweights benefits of having this layer.

Of course, I am not going to convince anyone. Just expressing opinion based on limited (as always) experience. From which I have learnt - avoid them, whenever possible.

cheers

upaho

StillWaters wrote: »

I certainly wouldnt sell without an EA. I'm not lazy, just time poor, and I don't want to be taking calls from messers etc.

I think you have a very high opinion of the EA's and a very low opinion of yourself. I don't know how anyone of average or better IQ couldn't do a better job than the average EA. IMO and experience they are almost useless and their lack of honesty with clients (in posting POA and aspirational prices), I think, is outrageous.

That said if you think potential purchasers of your property are "messers" when they respond to your advertisement maybe you should stick with your EA

upaho

riclad wrote: »

if you want your home on myhome ie or daft.ie
i think you need to have an estate agent.

Your posting made me think and check. I never could figure why daft is the largest property website (they say themselves) and I didn't know that as an individual you can't advertise on myhome. When I checked you're right about myhome. You need to register as an EA and they call you and sell you whatever plan your interested in. But anyone willing to pay daft can place an ad there. It must be the individual postings that make them the biggest site.

upaho

BBDBB wrote: »

the service that they get from a decent estate agent.

The "decent" is the operative word! There's too few of them around. I really thought that our local EA's would learn from Allsops. It seems they haven't.

Alssops came in, advertised their properties with low reserves and sold by the €millions at prices that came in well over the reserves.

In our current falling market posting an unrealistic aspirational price will only see the the property languishing on the market with the target price getting farther from the sales by the month.

If you post your property at a low realistic below market start the offers will come in, it will sell and the market will determine price.

upaho

BBDBB wrote: »

Also there is legislation that needs to be followed regarding how property can be advertised (at least in the UK)

Are you familiar with the Irish market or what? Check out myhome, daft and properties on buyandsell. adverts and donedeal (all .ie) and see how many BER's are quoted. The one I love is the "cosy cottage renovated to a high standard" that turns out to have a BER of G

Caveat Emptor, get you Surveyor to earn his/her money and make sure they have professional indemnity insurance so if you're on the wrong end of a shafting you have some come back!

upaho

BBDBB wrote: »

a decent agent is worth every penny

Don't believe a word of it. Deal with the professionals, use a Solicitor you trust, or one that comes with a good recommendation and the same for a Surveyor. EA's I don't see the need.

BBDBB

Thats ok upaho, you are entitled to your view as the next man. Ive outlined above the extra value a decent Estate Agent can provide both in terms of money and service ( ie reducing the hassle) and thats without it being too problematic a transaction. That value goes up when problems occur. So far no one has been able to argue the logic of the service Ive outlined, only that they dont believe it exists. Thats fair enough, we are all products of our experience, your experience tells you that estate agents arent that bright, dishonest, not to be trusted and unlikely to provide a value for money service.
I think thats not true
a) logically it seems unlikely that an entire industry would attract the profile of people you describe and only those people
b) My experience shows me that decent agents do exist and give the service Ive outlined, its a pity you havent experienced that.
I would endorse entirely your practice of using people whom you have gained a reccomendation about and whom you believe you can trust, regardless of their function.

Number_5

The large majority of them are more destructive to getting a deal done than constructive - for both sides.

Example 1 of many....
I'm living outside of Ireland and was trying to contact an agent a couple of weeks ago about a property in Dublin. Left a message on his voicemail a couple of times in addition to his office - no reply. Finally I caught a hold of him and started to ask him questions about tlhe property - he was very reluctant to talk/ stand offish and advised that I should view the house if im interested. I asked him could we arrange this saturday at 10am as I would be passing through Dublin on that day. His reply was (in a tone that would suggest he is doing me a favor) - "don't worry, we'll sort you out, just give me a shout during the week beforehand". So I ring him this week to firm up details of visit and I can't get hold of him - again I leave messages for him and finally he answers his phone today - but doesn't acknowledge that we had made arrangements for this Saturday. In the end It turns out he's not available and I won't be able to see the house.

ABSOLUTELY USELESS!

On the off chance that he thinks he is playing a cunning game of negotiation he is mistaken - I will no longer pursuing interest in the property as I don't do business with amateurs. Will probably send a letter to the owner to inform them of the clown that is working for them. Although the worse thing is that they will unlikely find a better one out there!!