Has This Hardware Generation Run Its Course?

Agricola

Listening to a podcast about the Eurogamer Expo over the weekend, the presenters seemed to agree that going by the lineup on show, this generation is on its last legs. Developers/publishers have run out of ideas, all we see now are sequels of shooters with the same old tropes we've seen before. The biggest queues at the expo were for games like COD / Gears of War, which are basically annual updates at this stage. The only real innovation and fresh ideas at the show was to be found in the Indie side of things.

This kind of implies that as soon as new hardware drops, we should see ground breaking new genres and gameplay we've never seen before. Personally I doubt that. Surely the real future for games in the next 5 years is more of the same, but with spanglier graphics, bigger worlds, more realistic AI etc. On the evidence of sales, people like shooters. They sell by the boat load. Franchises that started out in one guise, morph into action packed shooters (Resident Evil, Dead Space) because thats where the money is. So why would someone think that a PS4 or a new Xbox is going to bring anything new to the table, bar the cosmetic improvements?

So would you agree with the idea that new consoles are needed, or are the current ones perfectly fine for another couple of years considering the new ones will be giving us more of the same, but with a higher resolution in many cases?

Kinski

Agricola wrote: »

Surely the real future for games in the next 5 years is more of the same, but with spanglier graphics, bigger worlds, more realistic AI etc.

No! Spanglier graphics, smaller gameworlds, AI like it's 1999, shorter lengths, lower difficulty, etc.

K.O.Kiki

I play for the games, not hardware cock-waving contests.

P.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhDZDgyrTLc

SeantheMan

Graphics don't make games though.

Give me a good story and characters and I'll be happy.

Portal 2 and Batman were two of the big winners in awards last year, although they were graphically very good too, they won for their stories and innovations.

For me the current consoles are fine, the next gen will be more "media-centre" anyways I think.

They should all just build their shiny new games for PC master race anyways , we can handle it,

Icyseanfitz

im happy with graphics as they are tbh, i just want much much bigger and more detailed game worlds, a resurgence in good story driven games would be nice too

hightower1

In short....Yes.

With a new gen of consoles there comes more power and that doesnt necessarily equate into better graphics. More memory and processing power can easily mean bigger game worlds or more advanced AI.

For me personally I think right now a major shake up like a new gen is needed as its the most likely time for devs to start new franchises and THAT... is sorely needed.

ShadowHearth

Well indie scene on pc has all the hardware they can dream off, but they use only what they need. So we get such a huge indie games, which don't rely on super mega power, but make very fun games.
If big AAA boys ran out of ideas now, I don't really think they will get a flood of ideas when new Xbox and ps3 will be a little bit more powerfull.

More power will help for developers, but not in the way of creativity. If they are puffed out now and just update their games, new hardware won't change them.

Indie scene on PC is where you need to look for interesting fun stuff. Not media centres for next cod game.

cloud493

I'd say you could get a few more years out the xbox, Sony are supporting the PS3 till 2015 anyway. The wii is pretty much dead anyway

folan

hightower1 wrote: »

In short....Yes.

With a new gen of consoles there comes more power and that doesnt necessarily equate into better graphics. More memory and processing power can easily mean bigger game worlds or more advanced AI.

For me personally I think right now a major shake up like a new gen is needed as its the most likely time for devs to start new franchises and THAT... is sorely needed.

I've highlighted the part i think is most important.

I've never been a fan of online gaming, and rarely do it anymore. If it wasnt for xbox live features such as partys etc, I wouldnt do it anymore.

The growing emphasis on multiplayer isnt something i like, and the possibility of increasing AI, growing them into more involving storys and greater possibility for replays means a great deal to me.

so an update to current hardware to allow for more advances in software would be a great boost for my game life!

Retr0gamer

Agricola wrote: »

This kind of implies that as soon as new hardware drops, we should see ground breaking new genres and gameplay we've never seen before.

No you won't. Traditionally the end of a consoles life is when all the original, strange and best games are released for the system. The consumer base has hit it's highest point and prodcution costs are at their lowest allowing developers to take chances.

This generation however has been very different with the price of entry to producing a AAA game remaining so high that publishers are afraid of failures and so play it safe. When the next generation comes along the cost of development is going to rocket again and publishers are going to play it even safer. You'll see even less originality. How many times has a change in hardware meant new gameplay ideas and originality? Do you not remember the drought of good games on the 360 and PS3 at launch and how most people were buying mediocre titles that were reviewing well. It was at least 2 years before the good stuff really started coming out on them.

Beefy78

I agree with the OP. I've seen it argued before that the new console will lead to a new wave of originality from studios but I don't see it happening.

I'm not opposed to new consoles coming around and more powerful hardware being available than the PS3 & 360 can offer but I don't see it as the solution to a problem. I'm not even sure that the problem really is a problem. I seem to be stumbling across loads of new and original games at the moment, especially on PSN.

Agricola

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No you won't. Traditionally the end of a consoles life is when all the original, strange and best games are released for the system. The consumer base has hit it's highest point and prodcution costs are at their lowest allowing developers to take chances.

This generation however has been very different with the price of entry to producing a AAA game remaining so high that publishers are afraid of failures and so play it safe. When the next generation comes along the cost of development is going to rocket again and publishers are going to play it even safer. You'll see even less originality. How many times has a change in hardware meant new gameplay ideas and originality? Do you not remember the drought of good games on the 360 and PS3 at launch and how most people were buying mediocre titles that were reviewing well. It was at least 2 years before the good stuff really started coming out on them.

I agree and this is exactly why I don't think that this generation is finished from a purely gameplay perspective.
I mean obviously the hardware in consoles is ancient compared to high end pc's, but what the guys at the expo were getting at was the lack of innovation in the triple A space, and how everything is first or third person shooters these days. Thats increasingly true, but to say that this is somehow linked to the lack of horsepower in the console is bullshít. In the same way that the biggest grossing films are often mindless summer blockbusters, surely we'll just keep getting more of the same in the next generation. Why wouldnt we. This is the stuff that sells.

mooonpie

I've gotta agree with Retr0gamer and Agricola.

My understanding is that as a console ages the cost of developing for that console comes down, so we should see more innovation and new IP now than when the next-gen is released.

A new generation of consoles means increased dev costs.
Increased dev costs means greater risk (more money down the tank if the project is unsuccessful).
Greater risk means even more safety and even less innovation.

The issue we have now is slightly different and quite simple - innovation is a risk that many studios don't see as a business risk worth taking.

I mean, if you're a AAA studio with a huge budget are you going to invest silly amounts of money in a new innovative game that may flop or only appeal to a small niche of the market? Or are you going to invest that money updating last years 'Call of Battlefield: Modern Tiddlywinks 2012' to this years 'Call of Battlefield: Suburban Edition 2013 - now with updated rosters' which is guaranteed to sell just because of the franchise's fanbase?

It's a no-brainer from a business perspective!

(I've recently traded in a shelf full of EA Sports games in time for this year's offerings - so I'm as guilty as anyone in that regard )

Potential-Monke

I just need DoubleFine to make either another great IP, or a sequelt to Psychonauts or Brutal Legend, and for Eidos to re-release (read: not re-imagining) the Legacy of Kain series in glorious HD, leave everything else as is!

Helix

a new gen won't mean more creativity. companies have the ability to be creative and take risks right now on xbla/psn delivered titles, but they rarely do. the overhead on those games is miniscule compared to a boxed release for the most part, and the fact that few are bothering to try anything different very much just points at the fact that there aren't that many good ideas left any more among the big guys. sadly, that's not really the fault of the big publishers, that's the fault of the people spending hand over fist on rehashes

johnny_ultimate

I think this generation has completely convinced me that technological wizardry is a distant second to innovation and originality. Tokyo Jungle may look like an unspectacular PS2 game, but it makes two to three hours fly by in intense bursts of survival mode. Although there has been a general slowdown in bigger releases during recent months, I'm confident the next twelve months will be fruitful for the current gen - from sequels like Assassins Creed III or Bioshock Infinite, to promising new IPs like Dishonoured, Puppeteer and others.

As I've said before, the only game I'm convinced made truly noteworthy graphical strides this generation is LA Noire. Making animation and detail pivotal to the gameplay was a neat trick, even if the game itself had many rough edges. When the graphical improvements do come, let's hope they improve and enhance the games rather than just providing empty spectacle.

Retr0gamer

The problem with this generation is that it's completely killed the B-tier games, those games that might be a bit rough but offer new ideas. Stuff like Okami, God Hand, Katamari, Gitaroo Man etc. There's a few that trickle through like Deadly Premonition, the excellent and overlooked Nier or the surprising success of Demon's Souls. However by and large these games just can't be found on the 360, PS3 or PC. You've either got the bland AAA titles or the avant garde indie titles, there's no inbetween. The Wii had a good run of excellent B-tier games for a while before publishers realised that only first party games sell on the platform so B-tier games have gone handheld. It makes the PS3 and 360 quite bland outside of their digital platforms.

krudler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No you won't. Traditionally the end of a consoles life is when all the original, strange and best games are released for the system. The consumer base has hit it's highest point and prodcution costs are at their lowest allowing developers to take chances.

This, some of the best PS2 games came out in its last 2 years before the PS3 launched, 2005 was a stellar year for games on it, MGS3, God Of War, Devil May Cry 3, Psychonauts, Gran Turismo 4, Shadow Of The Colossus and others. Resi 4 that year too on the Cube, what an awesome summer that was.

gizmo

Helix wrote: »

a new gen won't mean more creativity. companies have the ability to be creative and take risks right now on xbla/psn delivered titles, but they rarely do. the overhead on those games is miniscule compared to a boxed release for the most part, and the fact that few are bothering to try anything different very much just points at the fact that there aren't that many good ideas left any more among the big guys. sadly, that's not really the fault of the big publishers, that's the fault of the people spending hand over fist on rehashes

Two points here, while the overhead on XBLA/PSN games is indeed tiny compared to AAA games, it's still a lot of money for a publisher to throw away on a game which, going by the sales figures on those platforms, is going to be pretty small in the majority of cases. On top of that, the insistence of the platform holders that you have a publisher or go through the signing process for them (which is a nightmare in itself) is also a major issue. To be honest, one of the most disappointing problems I've come across over the last couple of years is the lack of XBLIG access in so many countries. There really are some neat games on that service, even if they are overshadowed by the mountain of ****. That being said, Desura access is available for all yet I'm continually disappointed by the number of folk who just stare at me blankly when I ask them have they heard of it.

As for the second point, it's rather telling when you look at threads like these and see that people's expectations for games rarely matches their actual purchases. You even have people so wrapped up in a franchise that they'll automatically buy it regardless of incredibly poor reviews across the board. When I asked a mate of mine yesterday was he still going to get Resident Evil 6 despite the poor demo and reviews, his reply just summed the whole ****ing thing up...

I want to play a new RE6. I'm a fanboy and must play a new entry even if it's terrible.

I'm not even going to get into the fact that people aren't willing to take a punt on original games like Prison Architect for twenty odd quid or plan their yearly purchases around the quarterly Steam sales.

So in light of all that, no, I don't think the new generation is going to bring anything new or innovative to the table, by default at least. Great games will still be made, some will sell well yet some will be criminally overlooked but the big names will still continue to sell massive numbers regardless of the quality.

Retr0gamer

It's not all doom and gloom. Dishonoured looks brilliant, Assassins Creed 3 looks to be changing up the pre-existing formula and Bioshock Infinite looks great. I'm on the fence about Last of Us which could be good but Naughty Dogs writing hasn't been as good as some people give them credit for. Beyond as well will at the very least be interesting, Heavy Rain had a terrible story but was still enjoyable.

People are too quick to jump to the next platform and rarely does it bring any benefits until well into the generation cycle. We had a pretty good year for games last year. Why would you be in a hurry to leave behind another good year for games for a year of buying games at inflated RRP prices and playing absolute piss like Resistance Fall of Man or Perfect Dark Zero and convincing yourself they are good and justify the price of the console?

Helix

had a reasonable hands on with dishonored last month and thought it was dire tbh

Retr0gamer

Helix wrote: »

had a reasonable hands on with dishonored last month and thought it was dire tbh

Strange, I heard the exact opposite from reports from 1up. Well I'll wait for reviews as always.

Beefy78

I like Resistance: Fall of Man

Retr0gamer

Beefy78 wrote: »

I like Resistance: Fall of Man

Early adopter Stockholm Syndrome

Beefy78

Not at all, I only played it for the first time a couple of months ago. FPS games rarely hold my attention but something about that one really drew me in and kept me there.

Helix

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Strange, I heard the exact opposite from reports from 1up. Well I'll wait for reviews as always.

aye i should have it here tomorrow actually, bethesda said its on the way

Grumpypants

The thing holding back new IPs is cost. It is very simple there are only a handful of publishers that can bankroll a studio with 100-150 million dollars to work on an IP that more often than not will flop commercially. They do take risks but they can only afford one a year at best.

Look at Namco with Enslaved, EA with The Reckoning, Bethesda with Hunted. Big games, huge budgets yet sold only a few hundred thousand disks.


For the next gen it will be like this gen, publishers will stick to franchises that make money and mix in new IP's like they always do. Some new genre will emerge in the same way GTA did on PS2 or Modern shooters did on PS3 and publishers will follow suit with their own versions.

the_syco

gizmo wrote: »

On top of that, the insistence of the platform holders that you have a publisher or go through the signing process for them (which is a nightmare in itself) is also a major issue.

How much does it cost these days to release a patch through to the xbox platform? $40,000? And how much to release a game under xbox?

ScumLord

It's a problem with art in general and in particular revenue generating art.

Most art forms have been exhausted, we've done and tried everything, there hasn't really been a new style of music since the 80s, all stories have the same basic principles at their core and when your making artistic endeavours to try and make the most money you just go with what you believe the most amount of people will tolerate.

It's not going to change it'll just get worse.

folan

ScumLord wrote: »

Most art forms have been exhausted, we've done and tried everything, there hasn't really been a new style of music since the 80s

you're clearly overlooking dubstep!


errrrr, ****. ruined my own arguement there

N64

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I play for the games, not hardware cock-waving contests.

P.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhDZDgyrTLc

You do realise that that demo was running on PC? :rolleyes:

SOURCE

and the answer to the OP question is Yes.

/Thread.