renting dead money

jsd1004 · 03-10-2012 10:11pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The most expensive properties have been dropping like stones. Something that they were asking 2.5 million for a couple of years ago could easily be on for 1 million now.

By the way, you can get a nice place for 1.2k. Depends on what type of property, and where it is.

Yeah right..you are looking at buying a property for 2,5 -4 mil and you will settle for a rental of 1200 a month for years. It shows the mentality of renting in ireland. Prepared to pay big money to buy but wont if they are renting (because its dead money..)

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:14pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

There's a huge gap in the market for unfurnished apartments and houses. An intelligent landlord with a few properties would clean up - also they could be assured their tenants would stay longer and treat the place more like their own home and not a place to trash.

Fully agree, we rented for 7 years in a brand new place that we just caught as the landlord was furnishing, we asked him not to and bought some extra pieces to fill out what we had. He got no break in our tenancy as a result.

Unfurnished long-term rentals are desperately needed. It seems to be growing, I just found 69 on Daft - years ago it would have been 2.

renofan · 03-10-2012 10:16pm

usernamegoes wrote: »

I wish we had more of a culture of empty renting here; I hate the stuff Landlords ram into places here.

Also, I'd like to be able to do stuff like add a kitchen to the style I like. Hard to do in a renter, perhaps if we had more of a professional landlord system with longer term renting.

I rent a two bed house on half an acre for €450 a month. On the Dublin Bus route, only 45 mins from Dublin airport and 50 mins to Dublin port. Since we moved in I've done up the bathroom, 1 bedroom and we just put in a new kitchen that we designed the layout for. I can put a garden shed up, we threw out most of the furniture that was here and bought our own. Any changes we've done the landlord has paid for. We've been very lucky. My sister and brother rent and neither can hammer so much as a nail into a wall.

There is no way I'd get a mortgage and I can say I would't get a mortgage for where we are for €450 a month. Plus if we decide to move its only a week or two hassle at most. If we can convince the landlord that this place needs a shed for a few cars I could stay here for years!!

Red21 · 03-10-2012 10:19pm

In my town in the mid-80's you'd pay 14,500 for a decent house and at the time people tought that house prices were far too high. 25 years before that in the early 60's i believe houses were about 2000k a piece, over all this time there has been slumps but houses/land rarely stays down for long. If you're planning on renting long term you will always be paying in line with inflation whereas everyone who has ever taken out a 20+ year morgage in this country has had an easy time making repayments by the time they're half way through the term.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:21pm

Red21 wrote: »

In my town in the mid-80's you'd pay 14,500 for a decent house and at the time people tought that house prices were far too high. 25 years before that in the early 60's i believe houses were about 2000k a piece, over all this time there has been slumps but houses/land rarely stays down for long. If you're planning on renting long term you will always be paying in line with inflation whereas everyone who has ever taken out a 20+ year morgage in this country has had an easy time making repayments by the time they're half way through the term.

Both interest rates and inflation have been at pretty low levels in the past 10 years.
In an overpriced market, renting is a no-brainer.

jsd1004 · 03-10-2012 10:23pm

MadsL wrote: »

Fully agree, we rented for 7 years in a brand new place that we just caught as the landlord was furnishing, we asked him not to and bought some extra pieces to fill out what we had. He got no break in our tenancy as a result.

Unfurnished long-term rentals are desperately needed. It seems to be growing, I just found 69 on Daft - years ago it would have been 2.

If there is a demand they will be available. I recently unfurnished a house for tenants. I think every landlord would be delighted if they did not have to furnish a house and indeed repair and replace appliances and suffer wear and tear and damage. Long may it continue.

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 10:25pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

So you are telling us Squ is a millionaire who likes to vist boards.ie in his spare time? :pac:

...because millionaires don't use the internet...

03-10-2012 10:25pm

Personally I cannot wait to buy or build my own place. More than likely I will buy and apartment first then after a few years build my own house at home to my specs with the rooms I want, furnishings I want etc.

As a general rule now mortgage repayments are less than rent and in some cases much less. The argument that interest is dead money is nonsense as every month you are reducing what you owe the bank and are working towards ownership while renting is are getting nothing but a place to stay for the next month.

Paying rent pains me as much as nearly any other outgoing, while my car loan doesn't in the slightest as I know every month I'm getting a step closer to full owning it.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:26pm

jsd1004 wrote: »

If there is a demand they will be available. I recently unfurnished a house for tenants. I think every landlord would be delighted if they did not have to furnish a house and indeed repair and replace appliances and suffer wear and tear and damage. Long may it continue.

I trust landlords are learning more about how important who the tenant is and less about where to buy the cheapest mattress and that we will see less "crying chair" furnishings in future.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Crying%20Chair&defid=6758137

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 10:29pm

Lacey Creamy Potato wrote: »

Personally I cannot wait to buy or build my own place. More than likely I will buy and apartment first then after a few years build my own house at home to my specs with the rooms I want, furnishings I want etc.

As a general rule now mortgage repayments are less than rent and in some cases much less. The argument that interest is dead money is nonsense as every month you are reducing what you owe the bank and are working towards ownership while renting is are getting nothing but a place to stay for the next month.

Yes, but renting is often far, far cheaper. I've trotted out the example here for the last few years that I rented a place in Dublin in the mid 2000s for 1.5k that would have cost 4k per month to buy. The landlord was effectively subsidising me to live there. Of course, now it would cost less to buy, but it's still cheaper to rent the same type of house.

The 'rent is dead money' meme is one that caused untold misery in this country, and you'd think it would f*ck off and die, but no - the hard of thinking are doing their very best to keep it alive.

Logical Fallacy · 03-10-2012 10:30pm

eth0 wrote: »

Yea, but mortgage and property tax are deader money

A mortgage is not a necessity when buying a house.

These threads always have two groups with one argument each, while us in the middle just chuckle at the both of you.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:32pm

Lacey Creamy Potato wrote: »

Personally I cannot wait to buy or build my own place. More than likely I will buy and apartment first then after a few years build my own house at home to my specs with the rooms I want, furnishings I want etc.

As a general rule now mortgage repayments are less than rent and in some cases much less. The argument that interest is dead money is nonsense as every month you are reducing what you owe the bank and are working towards ownership while renting is are getting nothing but a place to stay for the next month.

If you bought an apartment in 2007 for €225 you will pay €418k for it.

If you bought the same apartment in 2012 after having rented since 2007 you will pay quite considerably less than half of that for it.

That same apartment can now be bought for €100k and purchased in just 12 years at a cost of €126k+(78k in rent paid since 2007) = €206k

Renting in a falling market saves you money. In other news sky is not blue.

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 10:34pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

A mortgage is not a necessity when buying a house.

Not a necessity, but it is usual unless you are in a very lucky position.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

These threads always have two groups with one argument each, while us in the middle just chuckle at the both of you.

What is the middle position?

4zn76tysfajdxp · 03-10-2012 10:35pm

Is it even possible to buy a reasonably sized, modest house for a small family without taking out a fifty year, 100% mortgage?

B.A._Baracus · 03-10-2012 10:36pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

...because millionaires don't use the internet...

would millionaires actually use boards? :pac:

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:37pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Is it even possible to buy a reasonably sized, modest house for a small family without taking out a fifty year, 100% mortgage?

Yes.

Do you have any special conditions?

4zn76tysfajdxp · 03-10-2012 10:39pm

MadsL wrote: »

Yes.

Do you have any special conditions?

Nah.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:42pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Nah.

www.daft.ie

Care to explain the problem?

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 10:43pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Is it even possible to buy a reasonably sized, modest house for a small family without taking out a fifty year, 100% mortgage?

Depends on your income and where you want to buy.

03-10-2012 10:45pm

MadsL wrote: »

In other news sky is not blue.

Rayleigh scattering the whore, its a right nuisance in my line of work.

msg11 · 03-10-2012 10:50pm

Is this rite , if I save up 7,000 and want a 70,000 mortagage I would get it off the bank ? No loans at the moment etc..

What way would it work , I take in about 1600 P/M.. Anyone enlighten me?

Halloran springs · 03-10-2012 10:50pm

Has anyone mentioned property tax yet? (Couldn't be bothered reading all 5 pages of thread) but anyway the people arguing how they'll own their house in their 70's etc are ignoring this very important factor. It is here to stay and more likely only going to rise. And if it goes like the United States and you don't pay up, your house that you "own" will be foreclosed. It's like a long-term permanent rent that never goes away.

So this argument is actually pointless, technically we will all be renting our houses from the state.

K-9 · 03-10-2012 10:56pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Is it even possible to buy a reasonably sized, modest house for a small family without taking out a fifty year, 100% mortgage?

Definitely, I wouldn't want a mortgage of more than 20 years myself though, 25 years tops.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 10:59pm

Halloran springs wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned property tax yet? (Couldn't be bothered reading all 5 pages of thread) but anyway the people arguing how they'll own their house in their 70's etc are ignoring this very important factor. It is here to stay and more likely only going to rise. And if it goes like the United States and you don't pay up, your house that you "own" will be foreclosed. It's like a long-term permanent rent that never goes away.

So this argument is actually pointless, technically we will all be renting our houses from the state.

To +1 this, I just bought in the US and my county property taxes are $2500 a year, if I was in the county over they would be over $5k a year.

Coming soon to a banana republic near you....I guess we could write off all the NE if property owners agreed to a 5k a year tax...any takers?

03-10-2012 10:59pm

Halloran springs wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned property tax yet? (Couldn't be bothered reading all 5 pages of thread) but anyway the people arguing how they'll own their house in their 70's etc are ignoring this very important factor. It is here to stay and more likely only going to rise. And if it goes like the United States and you don't pay up, your house that you "own" will be foreclosed. It's like a long-term permanent rent that never goes away.

So this argument is actually pointless, technically we will all be renting our houses from the state.

Do you not think the property tax is going to passed on by landlords?

Also you cant compare a fairly small fee every year being paid after a mortgage is paid off to paying full rent.

usernamegoes · 03-10-2012 11:00pm

renofan wrote: »

I rent a two bed house on half an acre for €450 a month. On the Dublin Bus route, only 45 mins from Dublin airport and 50 mins to Dublin port. Since we moved in I've done up the bathroom, 1 bedroom and we just put in a new kitchen that we designed the layout for. I can put a garden shed up, we threw out most of the furniture that was here and bought our own. Any changes we've done the landlord has paid for. We've been very lucky. My sister and brother rent and neither can hammer so much as a nail into a wall.

You're the exception to the rule it seems. You need to find a very good landlord for that.

jsd1004 wrote: »

If there is a demand they will be available. I recently unfurnished a house for tenants. I think every landlord would be delighted if they did not have to furnish a house and indeed repair and replace appliances and suffer wear and tear and damage. Long may it continue.

The should reduce the rent accordingly too.

AlmightyCushion · 03-10-2012 11:04pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Is it even possible to buy a reasonably sized, modest house for a small family without taking out a fifty year, 100% mortgage?

Would you not get a 110% mortgage and take a holiday or update the car with the extra cash. The interest is dirt cheap, sure you'd be mad not to.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 03-10-2012 11:04pm

MadsL wrote: »

www.daft.ie

Excellent hunting, sergeant. You'll make detective for this.

AlmightyCushion · 03-10-2012 11:06pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Excellent hunting, sergeant. You'll make detective for this.

But, I already am a detective, chief.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 11:06pm

Kyrie Hallowed Gloom wrote: »

Excellent hunting, sergeant. You'll make detective for this.

Thank you, Inspector, thank you very much.

Now is there anything else I can help you with?

Arse and elbow in the right spots

:pac:

eth0 · 03-10-2012 11:12pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

A mortgage is not a necessity when buying a house.

These threads always have two groups with one argument each, while us in the middle just chuckle at the both of you.

never said it was necessary.

earlyevening · 03-10-2012 11:15pm

Red21 wrote: »

everyone who has ever taken out a 20+ year morgage in this country has had an easy time making repayments by the time they're half way through the term.

What an out of date view. This is certainly not true in today's low inflation environment. To make matters worse, huge amounts of people have lengthened the term of their mortgages and have extended interest only periods which means they'll owe a lot more for a lot longer.

books4sale · 03-10-2012 11:26pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Not a necessity, but it is usual unless you are in a very lucky position.

I must be in a lucky position so....

Eh no! I was smart not lucky. Now I have enough cash stashed to buy my own gaff after 15 years working, got to travel, live and work all over the world.

Will I be buying, not a notion. The money I make on my savings pays for my yearly rent and all the time property is falling in price.

win, win WIN:D:D

Red21 · 03-10-2012 11:28pm

earlyevening wrote: »

What an out of date view. This is certainly not true in today's low inflation environment. To make matters worse, huge amounts of people have lengthened the term of their mortgages and have extended interest only periods which means they'll owe a lot more for a lot longer.

Is there a modern view to have when it comes to long term accomadation? I know many people who bought houses in the mid to late 90s' they now have an easy time making repayments, only time will tell if those who who bought houses in the height of the boom or in recent times will have it easy by the time they're have way through the term of the loan. History is very much on the side of the buyer.

DylanII · 03-10-2012 11:30pm

I dont think its dead money, but I do think renting is a bad investment.

Generally a mortgage will be cheaper per month than rent for the same house. By purchasing you would be saving that difference, but then once you are retured you will not have to worry about rent payments and your children will have the value of your house after you are gone.

ted1 · 03-10-2012 11:32pm

books4sale wrote: »

I must be in a lucky position so....

Eh no! I was smart not lucky. Now I have enough cash stashed to buy my own gaff after 15 years working, got to travel, live and work all over the world.

Will I be buying, not a notion. The money I make on my savings pays for my yearly rent and all the time property is falling in price.

win, win WIN:D:D

I bought in June, at the end of the month i'm 210 Euro better off than I was when.I was renting on.a house thats not as good as the one I bought.Also the value of my house has gone up. Win win for me.

On top of this i'm free to decorate it it to my liking and.make any changes I want.

MadsL · 03-10-2012 11:36pm

DylanII wrote: »

I dont think its dead money, but I do think renting is a bad investment.

Generally a mortgage will be cheaper per month than rent for the same house. By purchasing you would be saving that difference, but then once you are retured you will not have to worry about rent payments and your children will have the value of your house after you are gone.

What if I told you you could get a better return on your mortgage payments by investing it elsewhere?

books4sale · 03-10-2012 11:39pm

ted1 wrote: »

I bought in June, at the end of the month i'm 210 Euro better off than I was when.I was renting on.a house thats not as good as the one I bought.Also the value of my house has gone up. Win win for me.

On top of this i'm free to decorate it it to my liking and.make any changes I want.

I've still got all my cash in my accounts, am free to head where ever I like on this planet.

THink i'll go to Indo this Winter, cheap to live and I can chill out by the beach for 3 months.

Enjoy paying your prop tax there Ted.

It's win win WIN WIN.

earlyevening · 03-10-2012 11:43pm

Red21 wrote: »

Is there a modern view to have when it comes to long term accomadation? I know many people who bought houses in the mid to late 90s' they now have an easy time making repayments, only time will tell if those who who bought houses in the height of the boom or in recent times will have it easy by the time they're have way through the term of the loan. History is very much on the side of the buyer.

I imagine their income is higher than it was in the mid nineties and that interest rates are lower than they were then.

Incomes are falling, inflation is low and I would expect interest rates to rise from current historical lows. 3 good reasons why it wont be "easy" to repay mortgages for many in 10 yrs.

In a normal environment, one could expect their income to rise steadily roughly in line with inflation and the principal to be repaid steadily by those on repayment mortgages and with inflation devaluing further the value of the sum borrowed.

ted1 · 03-10-2012 11:45pm

books4sale wrote: »

I've still got all my cash in my accounts, am free to head where ever I like on this planet.

THink i'll go to Indo this Winter, cheap to live and I can chill out by the beach for 3 months.

Enjoy paying your prop tax there Ted.

It's win win WIN WIN.

I could do the same, if I rented out my house it would cover my mortgage, house expenses and accommodation in Info.
win, Win, Win, Win

earlyevening · 03-10-2012 11:45pm

ted1 wrote: »

Enjoying working when your in your seventies, your going to have to pay rent. Me I'll own my house.

Where are all these working 70 yr olds??

Ever hear of rent allowance/social housing if you have low income?

ted1 · 03-10-2012 11:47pm

earlyevening wrote: »

Where are all these working 70 yr olds??

Ever hear of rent allowance/social housing if you have low income?

haha, you think our welfare benefits are going to last

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 11:48pm

Lacey Creamy Potato wrote: »

Do you not think the property tax is going to passed on by landlords?

They can only charge what the market will bear - which is what they are doing right now. If renting costs go up, some people will opt to stay living at home or give up their rentals and move home, pool with friends etc. - reducing demand. An empty apartment is useless to a landlord, so they will be forced to reduce prices again.

twowheelsonly · 03-10-2012 11:49pm

ted1 wrote: »

I bought in June, at the end of the month i'm 210 Euro better off than I was when.I was renting on.a house thats not as good as the one I bought.Also the value of my house has gone up. Win win for me.

On top of this i'm free to decorate it it to my liking and.make any changes I want.

Oh oh.... here we go again :rolleyes: Get the red flags ready.

Do you plan on selling your house?
If you don't then in reality the value has gone nowhere.

ted1 · 03-10-2012 11:50pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

They can only charge what the market will bear - which is what they are doing right now. If renting costs go up, some people will opt to stay living at home or give up their rentals and move home, pool with friends etc. - reducing demand. An empty apartment is useless to a landlord, so they will be forced to reduce prices again.

yes, adults really want to live their parents.

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 11:50pm

books4sale wrote: »

I must be in a lucky position so....

Eh no! I was smart not lucky.

Well, I didn't mean lucky as in 'flukey'...

ted1 · 03-10-2012 11:51pm

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Oh oh.... here we go again :rolleyes: Get the red flags ready.

Do you plan on selling your house?
If you don't then in reality the value has gone nowhere.

I was just making the point that not everyone is in negative equity and bought sensible so in my case rent is dead money.

dirtyden · 03-10-2012 11:51pm

books4sale wrote: »

I've still got all my cash in my accounts, am free to head where ever I like on this planet.

THink i'll go to Indo this Winter, cheap to live and I can chill out by the beach for 3 months.

Enjoy paying your prop tax there Ted.

It's win win WIN WIN.

Where is Indo?

Monty Burnz · 03-10-2012 11:52pm

DylanII wrote: »

I dont think its dead money, but I do think renting is a bad investment.

Generally a mortgage will be cheaper per month than rent for the same house.

Generally it won't. I've heard this claimed a few times here - can you provide a few worked examples, even in today's market?

MadsL · 03-10-2012 11:53pm

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Oh oh.... here we go again :rolleyes: Get the red flags ready.

Do you plan on selling your house?
If you don't then in reality the value has gone nowhere.

Shhhhh!!! I'm trying to sell him a loan as he now need to "release the equity in his home"

renting dead money

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