Dogs in cages.

OldNotWIse

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Be more cruel to let the dogs wander.

True...provided the dogs are brought out for sufficient exercise of course

kneemos

gregers85 wrote: »

is your garden enclosed?? if it is I dont see the difference in having them in an enclosed run! All my dogs are kept in dog runs during the day while I'm at work and they are all healthy and happy dogs!!

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

OldNotWIse

westies4ever wrote: »

But sure then that probably makes me cruel. I work full time, getting home at lunch for 45 minutes. The rest of the day, my dogs are 'locked up' inside the house.

Like I said, as long as the dog has shelter, water and food and is walked and interacted with when the owner comes home, I see no issue.

I beat myself up over my dog being in during the day (only short time as parents away, I usually just have her thursday night to monday - shared custody lol) but now she is with me full time for a few weeks. Am driven demented rushign home to her at lunch on buses etc and trying to organise my time around her. I'm lucky I have an understanding colleague thats all I can say

kneemos

andreac wrote: »

If you are seriously concerned for the welfare of the dogs then report them.

For being kept in a humane "dog run"?

kylith

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

And where would they toilet while you're out? Do you have a lot of rooms in your house that would be bigger than 10'?

I videoed my dogs in my garden for a week. The furthest they moved was about 6' to have a pee, and then straight back to bed.

andreac

kneemos wrote: »

For being kept in a humane "dog run"?

You are the one with the problem, not us. You dont think they are humane, so if thats what you think then report them as YOU obviously dont think they are humane.

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

For being kept in a humane "dog run"?

:rolleyes: make your mind up - either its cruel or it isnt; if you think it is, report them; arguing on Boards isnt going to help.

gregers85

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

stimulation can be provided through chew toys such as kongs and the dogs bark should be all the intruder deterrent that is needed!

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

my dogs spend their day in the living room - generally on the same arm chair; in the corner of the room is a box full of their chew toys and old shoes etc. they can access it when they want. i have yet to come home to find them using any of the toys. they use them when me or my husband are around and they want to play. during the day they seem more interested in sleeping. more often than not they are in the same place they were when i left.

kneemos

westies4ever wrote: »

:rolleyes: make your mind up - either its cruel or it isnt; if you think it is, report them; arguing on Boards isnt going to help.

Obviously not.

Dunny

I have a cage for my dog which she goes in at night or am out for a short period or i am cleaning. Is there a problem with that?

Ms Tootsie

I think the main issue here is that the OP does not understand how dog runs or even crates work for dogs.

A dog run provides ample space for a dog while ensuring it is safe and secure from potential hazards such as predators, weather conditions, other dogs etc. They can be a good place for the dog to have a time out when there are visitors that might be afriad of dogs.

A crate provides a safe place for a dog to relax away from the normal hussle and bussle of a house. It acts as a den of sorts where the dog can go when he or she wants some down time. Crates serve a useful purpose to prevent (and rectify) problems associated with destructive behaviour and fear of strangers or other types of people. They help with house training, with visitors who are afraid of dogs and can be used when travelling with a dog.

Dog runs are not cruel when used correctly i.e. by owners ensuring their pet gets plenty of exercise.

I crate my dog when I leave the house for a few hours, this DOES NOT make me a cruel pet owner, rather the opposite. I know my guy will not get himself into any trouble when I am not there to help. Having vidoed him while I have been out I can tell you he spends the majority of his short time in their sleeping or chewing on the frozen kong we leave to keep him entertained. He gets plenty of exercise and usually as soon as we let him out he is taken for a good 45 minute to an hour long walk / run.

The main gripe I have is that the OP has come on here to spout nonsense about something he/she does not fully understand. The rest of the posters have simply been trying to explain what exactly a dog run is and how it serves its purpose to provide a safe enviornment for a dog so it is a bit rude for the OP to say they are cruel treatments for a dog.

westies4ever

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post.

kylith

I actually used to be in the 'crates are cruel' camp until I had to get them for travelling. After a bit of hassle getting Ra into one to start with I realised how much they love them. Tee likes to go in and have a sleep, and these days I can barely put the crates together because the two dogs are both trying to get in as soon as they see it.

lisa_celtic

this post almost has me feeling bad.. Im keeping my 4 month old yorkie in a large metal crate when I'm at work, saying that i have gone home every lunch time to let him out and my boyfriend is home before me in the evenings and he does be out when i get home. I personally think the crates are great, he doesn't go toilet in it and also it keeps him out of trouble (chewing etc) so were never mad at him, i was thinking about getting a large run in the garden for next summer hope my neighbor doesn't try report me

mariecxx

most people in ireland cant look after their animals!

sionnaic

I think the key thing is that runs and crates are great **when used correctly * *

I can see both sides of the argument here - these are perfectly acceptable tools in the hands of responsible pet owners.

However on the flip side, they are all too frequently abused by bad pet owners and that should be recognised.
People who do leave their poor dogs out in all weathers without appropriate shelter, care and attention, who don't walk or ensure their dogs are stimulated or care that their dogs are lonely & bored with no life. THESE people shouldn't be allowed have animals, let alone a crate or run to put them in.

And if the OP thinks that the situations he is talking about fall into this category then yes he definitely should report them.

maggiepip

sionnaic wrote: »

I think the key thing is that runs and crates are great **when used correctly * *

I can see both sides of the argument here - these are perfectly acceptable tools in the hands of responsible pet owners.

However on the flip side, they are all too frequently abused by bad pet owners and that should be recognised.
People who do leave their poor dogs out in all weathers without appropriate shelter, care and attention, who don't walk or ensure their dogs are stimulated or care that their dogs are lonely & bored with no life. THESE people shouldn't be allowed have animals, let alone a crate or run to put them in.

And if the OP thinks that the situations he is talking about fall into this category then yes he definitely should report them.

This is an excellent post and my thoughts exactly.

I cannot stand people who think it is ok to leave a dog in a crate all day while they are at work - or even worse still just to keep the dog out of the way.

For gods sake dogs need room to move around - there is also lots of research now that dogs are developing muscle wastage, and kidney problems (from holding too long) and BIG behavioural problems from being locked in crates all day.

It is inhumane - and I also cant stand the "repeaters" who have been brainwashed by the companies who sell these crate chant out the mantra "they are the dogs den and they love it" OMG!!! - if a crate is left OPEN for a dog and they love it then thats great - and it does mimic a den because the dog has a CHOICE to go into it or not and leave as they please. If someone MUST lock their dog in for the odd hour here and there that is ok, but not 5,6,7 hours a day (and often more)

A dogs den in the wild is NOT a place they are LOCKED into by humans and have to wait hours for humans to let them out.

The OP sounds like she is upset seeing dogs out in runs all the time - and so would I be. Why in the name of god cant people who decide to get a dog put up some fencing???? - answer they couldnt be bothered and a pen is an easy solution. Give them some space. Runs are also ok for SHORT periods of time here and there but out all day (and god forbid maybe night) in an area of a few feet is horrible for a dog - even if they do get their 1 hour walk - that leaves 23 hours locked up. Wow ..what a life for a dog!!!!!

Of course the people who do this tell us their dogs are really happy.......thats talk to suit themselves - or the dog sleeps all the time....REALLY ? perhaps they have nothing else to do and are bored off their trollies. When people do have to leave their dogs alone fence off some garden space - if you are leaving your dogs indoors while you are out for hours and hours - why cant you just plug out electric wires if you are concerned about safety (perhaps that would be too much trouble??) or leave them in the kitchen with wires unplugged.

Why cant people include dogs a a family member?? why cant they train them not to be destructive - if thats an issue. What a lot of people have intense ignorance about are dogs are not "just a dog, and dogs should be outside" Dogs are happiest and also programmed to be in the company of their human family with lots of stimulation - DOMESTICATION did this to them - it changed their DNA. They want fun, company, interaction and love and thrive on family life balanced between being indoors and out.

So to the OP - I know exactly where you are coming from.

kneemos

Well said.

kneemos

I would feel uneasy about reporting it if I'm honest as I don't think it would achieve much,plus from what I've seen and the posts here it appears to be quite a common thing to lock up your dog.Don't know if there's much they could do anyway if the dogs being well fed and exercised.Its the pointlessness of it that get's me,why have a dog if you have to keep it locked up and if you do have to keep it locked up perhaps you shouldn't have one in fairness to the dog.

Ms Tootsie

kneemos wrote: »

I would feel uneasy about reporting it if I'm honest as I don't think it would achieve much,plus from what I've seen and the posts here it appears to be quite a common thing to lock up your dog.Don't know if there's much they could do anyway if the dogs being well fed and exercised.Its the pointlessness of it that get's me,why have a dog if you have to keep it locked up and if you do have to keep it locked up perhaps you shouldn't have one in fairness to the dog.

Ok you are clearly going round in circles here and NOT listening to the evidence from long term dog owners. Dog runs and dog crates when used correctly are NOT repeat NOT cruel to the animal. Keeping a dog contained in a spacious dog run when you are at work is PROTECTING the animal. Within a dog run the animal has ample room to move around, is sheltered from Irelands very tempremental weather conditions and various predators for the dog. It is very ignorant to tell dog owners that by using dog runs or crates that they shouldnt have a dog in the first place. My use of a crate for my dog is not for my convenience but for the well being of my dog. It is something I do because I love my dog and want to ensure that he comes to no harm when I am not there to keep an eye on him.

I am sorry but several of the posters on here really know what they are talking about when it comes to dogs. The spend their lives around dogs and use this forum to pass their knowledge and advice onto others. They have given their knowledge on the subject of dog runs and dog crates and still you try to say that because they advocate the use of such things that they shouldnt own a dog. As people who have mountains more knowledge on the subject do you not thing you should maybe take on board what they are saying and stop being so staunchly of the opinion that those dog owners who use runs and crates are being cruel?

ISDW

kneemos wrote: »

I would feel uneasy about reporting it if I'm honest as I don't think it would achieve much,plus from what I've seen and the posts here it appears to be quite a common thing to lock up your dog.Don't know if there's much they could do anyway if the dogs being well fed and exercised.Its the pointlessness of it that get's me,why have a dog if you have to keep it locked up and if you do have to keep it locked up perhaps you shouldn't have one in fairness to the dog.

To feed and look after a dog's medical needs costs money, so people who are lucky enough to have a job, go to work, and the money they earn, looks after their dog. So, do you think that only unemployed people or couples with one person who stays at home all day should have dogs?

Some dogs are great escape artists, so a dog run will keep them safe. Please explain the difference between leaving a dog in an adequately sized run, and a garden?

One of my dogs can climb 6 foot fencing no problem whatsoever. So when I go out he is left in an inside pen in a kennel block, which has a roof on it. I live on the coast, so can't put a roof on the outside runs, it would be blown off in the winter storms. So, he is exercised, spends most of his time in the house, or out in the yard, his choice, door is open, but every now and then he is safely contained in a 'dog cage'. Cruel? Seriously?

maggiepip

kaza2710 wrote: »

Ok you are clearly going round in circles here and NOT listening to the evidence from long term dog owners. Dog runs and dog crates when used correctly are NOT repeat NOT cruel to the animal. Keeping a dog contained in a spacious dog run when you are at work is PROTECTING the animal. Within a dog run the animal has ample room to move around, is sheltered from Irelands very tempremental weather conditions and various predators for the dog. It is very ignorant to tell dog owners that by using dog runs or crates that they shouldnt have a dog in the first place. My use of a crate for my dog is not for my convenience but for the well being of my dog. It is something I do because I love my dog and want to ensure that he comes to no harm when I am not there to keep an eye on him.

I am sorry but several of the posters on here really know what they are talking about when it comes to dogs. The spend their lives around dogs and use this forum to pass their knowledge and advice onto others. They have given their knowledge on the subject of dog runs and dog crates and still you try to say that because they advocate the use of such things that they shouldnt own a dog. As people who have mountains more knowledge on the subject do you not thing you should maybe take on board what they are saying and stop being so staunchly of the opinion that those dog owners who use runs and crates are being cruel?

It has been stated that "responsible SHORT TERM (a couple of hours at most a day) use of cages/runs" is acceptable - I am not, however saying it is ideal) Did you not read / understand that?

Just because someone has spent their lives around dogs does in NO WAY make them experts or gurus whose ideas should be followed and accepted by others like sheep.

My uncle has owned dogs all his life and treated them like s**t - he would consider himself an expert and in his IGNORANT mind he will tell you his dogs are happy!!!!. His dogs are actually half insane from boredom and lack of interaction - they look so happy when you meet them because they cant believe their luck someone actually gave then a little attention. A wag of a tail for a greeting does not mean dogs are living happy content lives. My uncle in law has hunting dogs all his life - they live in a 6ft x 4ft pen day in day out and only get out to hunt occasionally - other than that they are not even exercised - he has been around dogs all his life and would consider himself an expert too. WOW!!!

As has been already stated - no one has said a crate or run should never be used - if used responsibly for short periods of time ( a few hours here and there)

But I so wish people would stop this den rubbish as an excuse to cage a dog for hours and hours on end - and try to tell you the dogs love it. people only have the right to call it a den if the dog has VOLUNTARY access and exit to it if they choose to use it on that basis then, yes they love it. Choice is the honest way to assess.

By the way, I have had family dogs in my life from the age of 2 yrs - and I have always had my own dogs since I left home - I presently have 3 dogs and I am now 43 yrs old. I read and research constantly about dogs and am always learning. I dont know what exactly constitutes "an expert" but I certainly know what I am talking about.

maggiepip

ISDW wrote: »

To feed and look after a dog's medical needs costs money, so people who are lucky enough to have a job, go to work, and the money they earn, looks after their dog. So, do you think that only unemployed people or couples with one person who stays at home all day should have dogs?

Some dogs are great escape artists, so a dog run will keep them safe. Please explain the difference between leaving a dog in an adequately sized run, and a garden?

One of my dogs can climb 6 foot fencing no problem whatsoever. So when I go out he is left in an inside pen in a kennel block, which has a roof on it. I live on the coast, so can't put a roof on the outside runs, it would be blown off in the winter storms. So, he is exercised, spends most of his time in the house, or out in the yard, his choice, door is open, but every now and then he is safely contained in a 'dog cage'. Cruel? Seriously?

Again - no one said RESPONSIBLE use of these tools was cruel - WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT READING THE POSTS PROPERLY. Its long term overuse which is the problem and this point is being missed. Your dogs obviously have a lovely well balanced life and you integrate them well into family life also......the OP is talking about dogs ALWAYS in a pen.

Ms Tootsie

maggiepip wrote: »

Again - no one said RESPONSIBLE use of these tools was cruel - WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT READING THE POSTS PROPERLY. Its long term overuse which is the problem and this point is being missed. Your dogs obviously have a lovely well balanced life and you integrate them well into family life also......the OP is talking about dogs ALWAYS in a pen.

maggiepip if you read the earlier posts this is what the OP said:

kneemos wrote: »

Don't know if there's much they could do anyway if the dogs being well fed and exercised.Its the pointlessness of it that get's me,why have a dog if you have to keep it locked up and if you do have to keep it locked up perhaps you shouldn't have one in fairness to the dog.

kneemos wrote: »

When I had a dog they were left in the garden.

kneemos wrote: »

I think I'd rather have a dog room to move around and get at least some stimulation,not to mention an intruder deterrent.

kneemos wrote: »

Sounds like your trying to make them more humane by calling them dog runs,which thier clearly not.

He has an issue with dog runs being being used full stop even when the dogs are being (and i quote) well fed and exercised. So clearly I have read the posts correctly since I have been following this thread from the beginning throughout which the OP repeatly attacks the use of dog runs and crates.

maggiepip wrote: »

It has been stated that "responsible SHORT TERM (a couple of hours at most a day) use of cages/runs" is acceptable - I am not, however saying it is ideal) Did you not read / understand that?

And I think if you had actually read the thread you would find that not only did i read / understand that but that I actually made that point in the first place not the OP.

And my point abouy experts is that if you look at the posts in response to the OPs attack on dog runs and crate they all come from long term posters here. Posters who have always posted sound advice on dogs and dog ownership and so I consider their opinion to be more expert than that of the OP who has not owned a dog since childhood when no doubt his or her parents were the animals main carers.

kneemos

Looks like your adding two and two and coming up with nine there Kaza.I said yesterday I had no problem using them for a few hours or indeed at night.The issue from the start has been overuse.I do have a problem calling them "dog runs"who came up with that one?

westies4ever

No need to shout maggiepip - the caps/bold are coming across as aggressive.

The OP's posts are inconsistent so its kinda hard to establish what his actual gripe is. Dog runs full stop or irresponsible use?

I dont think anyone here is supporting keeping a dog in a run or a crate 24/7.

westies4ever

kneemos wrote: »

I do have a problem calling them "dog runs"who came up with that one?

why dont you google it?

Ms Tootsie

The OP seems to be flitting from one side of the arugment to the other. Now they have no problem with dog runs being used for a few hours or even at night

kneemos wrote: »

I said yesterday I had no problem using them for a few hours or indeed at night.

but earlier in the thread he said calling them dog runs was trying to make them humane which they are not.

kneemos wrote: »

Sounds like your trying to make them more humane by calling them dog runs,which thier clearly not.

And as for this

kneemos wrote: »

Looks like your adding two and two and coming up with nine there Kaza.

my conclusions are simply based on what you have already stated in this thread, I even took your own quotes for crying out loud.

Nobody here supports the misuse of dog runs 24/7 and we have all strongly advocated responsible use from the very beginning of this thread but OP one minute you find them suitable for short term use while earlier calling them inhumane. Make your mind up. This argument is clearly going nowhere so I am out.

maggiepip

kaza2710 wrote: »

maggiepip if you read the earlier posts this is what the OP said:









He has an issue with dog runs being being used full stop even when the dogs are being (and i quote) well fed and exercised. So clearly I have read the posts correctly since I have been following this thread from the beginning throughout which the OP repeatly attacks the use of dog runs and crates.



And I think if you had actually read the thread you would find that not only did i read / understand that but that I actually made that point in the first place not the OP.

And my point abouy experts is that if you look at the posts in response to the OPs attack on dog runs and crate they all come from long term posters here. Posters who have always posted sound advice on dogs and dog ownership and so I consider their opinion to be more expert than that of the OP who has not owned a dog since childhood when no doubt his or her parents were the animals main carers.

The OP did not say he had an issue with cages/runs full stop --- he says "what is the point of having a dog locked up all its life"

It appears from what I have read the dogs are locked up all the time but do get some exercise - well how nice to be locked back up for 23 hours the rest of the time!! Believe me - I HAVE read the posts very well and by the way you are taking quotes from the OPs posts and putting them out of context - actually Im not quite sure what you are on about.

And who are all these "Experts" you keep referring to??