199 different nationalities now in Ireland

Death and Taxes

coonecb1 wrote: »

Well, here's a link to some evidence if you'd care to take a look:

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/after-another-malmo-attack-sweden-s-jews-resolve-to-keep-up-solidarity-rallies-1.469460

Anti semitism has existed in europe for centuries, it has nothing to do with immigration, it wasn't immigrants that set up the inquisition, nor was it immigrants that brought about the pogroms in Limerick, nor indeed the holocaust.
You were earlier advised to learn some history, it was good advice, you should take it before spouting anymore inaccurate garbage.

coonecb1

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Anti semitism has existed in europe for centuries, it has nothing to do with immigration, it wasn't immigrants that set up the inquisition, nor was it immigrants that brought about the pogroms in Limerick, nor indeed the holocaust.
You were earlier advised to learn some history, it was good advice, you should take it before spouting anymore inaccurate garbage.

Haha, I know I'm winning the argument when you say things like that.

Anti-semitism in Sweden had been pretty much non-existent until the big immigration of muslims to their country.

But, hey anti-semitism has been around for centuries, so let's not worry about it???

KINGVictor

coonecb1 wrote: »

Haha, I know I'm winning the argument when you say things like that.

Anti-semitism in Sweden had been pretty much non-existent until the big immigration of muslims to their country.

But, hey anti-semitism has been around for centuries, so let's not worry about it???

No you are not winning the argument at all.

Apart from the fact that I think your points are irrelevant to the discussion on this thread, I am struggling to understand how Muslims who make up just about 5% of the population of Sweden have led to Anti-Semitism if it was non- existent prior to Muslims emmigrating to Sweden.

Surely, the rest of the population (95%) which consists of mainly progressive intellectuals would not have been suddenly polluted and brainwashed by these Muslamic jihadists :rolleyes:

9959

coonecb1 wrote: »

Haha, I know I'm winning the argument when you say things like that.

Anti-semitism in Sweden had been pretty much non-existent until the big immigration of muslims to their country.

But, hey anti-semitism has been around for centuries, so let's not worry about it???

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Anti semitism has existed in europe for centuries, it has nothing to do with immigration, it wasn't immigrants that set up the inquisition, nor was it immigrants that brought about the pogroms in Limerick, nor indeed the holocaust.
You were earlier advised to learn some history, it was good advice, you should take it before spouting anymore inaccurate garbage.

Poster never said 'let's not worry about it' as you can see above.
Anti-semitism is always a concern whenever and wherever it raises it's ugly head.
In my opinion your rambling diatribes are a dictionary definition of 'moving the goalposts'.
You've come a long way from feeling like a foreigner in your own country when walking on the South Circular Road, had you walked there 100 years ago I suspect that you may have felt the same even then, you would have met a lot of Jewish settlers who had fled the pogroms in eastern Europe, for that area was known as Dublin's 'Little Jerusalem'.

coonecb1

KINGVictor wrote: »

Surely, the rest of the population (95%) which consists of mainly progressive intellectuals would not have been suddenly polluted and brainwashed by these Muslamic jihadists :rolleyes:

They haven't, the attacks on the Jews is coming almost exclusively from the muslim immigrants.

Death and Taxes

coonecb1 wrote: »

They haven't, the attacks on the Jews is coming almost exclusively from the muslim immigrants.

At this stage the only thing you havn't blamed on Islam is global warming! But I'm sure you will find a way to do that yet.

Nodin

WileyCoyote wrote: »

At this stage the only thing you havn't blamed on Islam is global warming! But I'm sure you will find a way to do that yet.

Well, he at least decided mexican football fans were a dead end...

coonecb1

WileyCoyote wrote: »

At this stage the only thing you havn't blamed on Islam is global warming! But I'm sure you will find a way to do that yet.

No, not blaming muslims for global warming.

I'm just giving examples of negative effects of immigration, you know, people ask for facts and that's what I'd tried to give them.

9959

coonecb1 wrote: »

They haven't, the attacks on the Jews is coming almost exclusively from the muslim immigrants.

Was it Muslims who instituted anti Jewish laws in Spain 500 years ago?
Was it Muslims who were responsible for Nazi Germany's Anti-semitism in the 1930's?
Is it Muslims who are responsible for the Anti-semitism in Russia today?

Careful taking the air whilst strolling down the South Circular Road, I fear that you are already showing early symptoms of the dreaded 'Islamophobia', but I wouldn't advise you to consult a doctor, why not instead consult a history book, you never know, you just might rid yourself of this debilitating condition.

Annasopra

coonecb1 wrote: »

Here's something that should keep the trolls happy:

"Some of my best friends are foreigners"

Haha, now I've just proved how racist I am, which should make some people happy :rolleyes:

For the record, I have 2 friends who are muslims, my ex-girlfriend of 4 years was an immigrant, and I like my work colleagues, a good deal of whom are immigrants.

Yeah yeah

Heard it all before... not really homophobic.... have a gay best friend

MadsL

@coonecb1
What is the most harassed racial group in Sweden would you say, given your wide understanding of racial issues in Scandanavia?

old hippy

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

What's the matter now, old snippy? You're sure hanging around this thread an awful lot, are you trying to change people's opinions, one boards.ie member at a time?

You know what an Irish person looks like, so don't be facetious, you've lived in this country for long enough, you should know by now. I really wonder what your game is though, I mean - what's your ultimate goal? Why are you so adamant on continued immigration and for these immigrants to be referred to as 'Irish'? Why are you trying to draw certain answers out of people so you can play the race card? What do you get out of it?

The people who are anti-immigration or in favour of more stringent immigration control on this thread -it seems to me- hold these opinions because they want to preserve our Irish culture and heritage and stop it from being bowdlerized, but what do you want?

You're obviously in favour of multiculturalism - why? And don't bother giving me a list of statistics which explains why multiculturalism is good for the economy or something, what's good for the economy in the short-term may be disastrous for our country in the long-term. Besides, people debating with statistics copied and pasted from different websites is tiresome and has very little relevance. Try using your brain to expostulate with for a change.

Also, tell me, as a matter of curiousity; have you always been in favour of everything that the media beats into your brain and tells you is a good idea - or have you just been feeling particularly docile recently?

Again, what does an Irish person look like?

The media has beaten nothing into my brain, thanks. I have somethings called experience, family and friends. I know what's right and what smacks of downright prejudice.

And hell's teeth, you reek of it.

Quirk_Douglas

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not really sure what Irish cultural identity is though.

Is it following British football? shopping in german supermarkets? watching american comedy? using american phrases such as awesome?

Perhaps it is things like GAA, The language, geting drunk in pubs -

I've seen black kids on gaa pitches - they're not diluting anything -

I've seen men living in Turkey speaking Irish - they're not diluting anything

Perhaps humans should have stopped those who developed writing tools because it diluted their caveman culture

There was an Ireland which existed before the 1970's, I know it's natural for today's youth to completely disregard or overlook the past, but it is there if you care to embrace it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Irish_literature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_poets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_literature

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_castles_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_mythology

http://www.facebook.com/LimerickPhotos
http://www.myhometown.ie/71/71/0/
http://www.oldgalwaypics.co.uk/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.irishhistorylinks.net/pages/Old_Dublin_Black_White.html

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/3565.Oscar_Wilde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maureen_O%27Sullivan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maureen_O%27Hara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Harris
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Fitzgerald
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrester_Harvey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Gerrard

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Samuel_Beckett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Collins_%28Irish_leader%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_O%27Connell
http://www.authenticireland.com/7+irish+landmarks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_art
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_artists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising

There's some examples of our culture and history, in case you've forgotten. Yes, there's more to Ireland than beer, soccer, German supermarkets and American phrases. The aforementioned Ireland is the Ireland that I would fight to protect, the Ireland we're beginning to lose but must preserve for future generations who hopefully aren't as short-sighted as we are.

You may say (and I suspect somebody would have, since your arguments are quite predictable - I'm not addressing this to anybody in particular but the collective), that Maureen O' Hara, Richard Harris and others only became successful in the motion picture industry because they emigrated to other countries. This is true, however they forever, unceasingly identified themselves as Irish. Oscar Wilde lived in England (and France) from the time he completed secondary school in Ireland until his death, Samuel Beckett lived in France and wrote in French for a time, but they were always Irish. Why? Well, because they were proud of their origins even if it was occasionally to their detriment. That's why it's absurd to claim that African, Asian, Middle Eastern people are just as Irish as anybody else just because they were given citizenship by an inept government. They aren't, and it isn't because of skin colour as some of you shockingly like to claim, it's because it's a fact.

I have very little time or respect for modern politicians and their views, so why would I respect their immigration policies? Modern politicians had Cruises Hotel in Limerick City demolished in 1990 to make way for a pedestrianised street which is now home to a McDonalds 'restauraunt' and a slew of boarded up shops. Cruises Hotel had been a Limerick City staple since the 1700's, it was Ireland's oldest standing hotel, Daniel O' Connell stayed there, Michael Collins stayed there, modern politicians demolished it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88051129@N00/3412114352/

Just like they demolished Cruises Hotel, they're demolishing what's left of our culture year after year. Mosques are being erected, all-African schools will be built, some people say this is great, but it isn't. African and Polish road signs will be erected, our culture will dissipate before our eyes. Some of you will say 'it mustn't be much of a culture if it dissipates just because some African and Polish road signs are erected', but a culture is only as strong as the spirit of the people in the country it belongs to. And that's the problem, the spirit is gone, many of you don't have any fight or patriotic pride anymore. Somebody has to stand up and say something, and not be dissuaded by tiresome cries of 'racist! xenophobe!'. It bounces off me personally, because I'll always argue in favour of traditional Ireland and its history rather than the modern way.

Finally, some of you seem almost ashamed to be Irish, but it was good enough for Beckett, Joyce, and Wilde - it should be good enough for you.

Annasopra

My point is that culture constantly changes and evolves. We wouldn't even be here if it didn't.

Nodin

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

............. That's why it's absurd to claim that African, Asian, Middle Eastern people are just as Irish as anybody else just because they were given citizenship by an inept government. They aren't, and it isn't because of skin colour as some of you shockingly like to claim, it's because it's a fact..

Well do please enlighten us then. Why can't they be as irish as anyone else?

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Mosques are being erected,..

Not Mosques!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

all-African schools will be built, ,some people say this is great, but it isn't. ..

I haven't heard anyone say anything about it, probably because I've never heard it proposed. You've a source for this?

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

African and Polish road signs will be erected, our culture will dissipate before our eyes. ..

Is an African road sign painted in brighter colours? Does a polish one have a blonde wig nailed on top?

A source about these signs, if you would.

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Some of you will say (.........)the modern way...

The biggest threat, as such, to Irish culture is the inundation of english language media from abroad. Yet here you are, yammering away about Poles and Africans. Bit odd, that.

Quirk_Douglas

Nodin wrote: »

Well do please enlighten us then. Why can't they be as irish as anyone else?



Not Mosques!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I haven't heard anyone say anything about it, probably because I've never heard it proposed. You've a source for this?



Is an African road sign painted in brighter colours? Does a polish one have a blonde wig nailed on top?

A source about these signs, if you would.



The biggest threat, as such, to Irish culture is the inundation of english language media from abroad. Yet here you are, yammering away about Poles and Africans. Bit odd, that.

If you're not enlightened by now then you never will be.

But since I'm feeling generous;
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mayor-of-Limerick-City-wants-road-signs-in-Polish-and-African-161191035.html

MadsL

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Oscar Wilde lived in England from the time he completed secondary school in Ireland until his death, Samuel Beckett lived in France and wrote in French for a time, but they were always Irish. Why? Well, because they were proud of their origins even if it was occasionally to their detriment.

Finally, some of you seem almost ashamed to be Irish, but it was good enough for Beckett, Joyce, and Wilde - it should be good enough for you.

James Joyce wrote:

If Ireland is to become a new Ireland she must first become European

James Joyce wrote:

When the soul of man is born in this country there are nets flung at it to hold it back from flight. You talk to me of nationality, language, religion. I shall try to fly by those nets

James Joyce wrote:

--Do you know what Ireland is? asked Stephen with cold violence. Ireland is the old sow that eats her farrow.

Samuel Beckett wrote:

(preferred) France at war to Ireland at peace

As for Wilde, he never once wrote about Ireland.

Choosing for your odd 'defence' of Irish culture three men who were driven from it to find the freedom to express themselves without outrage or censure is rather foolish.

Nodin

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

If you're not enlightened by now then you never will be.

O no, theres always the chance you're in poessesion of some insight or information that I lack. So, do please explain - Why can't they be as irish as anyone else?

And a source for the schools and roadsigns thing too, if you'd be as good.

I see your edit now. So its just a limited proposal for limerick. The schools?

Quirk_Douglas

MadsL wrote: »

As for Wilde, he never once wrote about Ireland.

Choosing for your odd 'defence' of Irish culture three men who were driven from it to find the freedom to express themselves without outrage or censure is rather foolish.

Nice Joyce quotes, he also wrote these;
http://loveletters.tribe.net/thread/fce72385-b146-4bf2-9d2e-0dfa6ac7142d

The problems Joyce thought Ireland had in the 1920's are vastly different from the problems I think it has in the 2010's. He had issues with aspects of Irish society as does anybody who truly loves their country. The majority of his work revolves around Dublin, which shows that his heart and mind never left Ireland although he did. He travelled just as you would expect a cultured writer to do, as many did. He couldn't be like John B. Keane and stay in his hometown all his life, writing at night after spending the day at his pub in Listowel.

Wilde didn't sit down and write a poem or a play about Ireland, no, he was far too busy being a dandy to concern himself with such matters. However he did speak about Ireland, he criticised Britain for not giving Ireland freedom, he also corrected people who referred to him as English.

In closing, if I may paraphrase Wilde;

'To disagree with three-fourths of the Irish public is one of the first requisites of sanity.'

Nodin

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Nice Joyce(....)is one of the first requisites of sanity.'

Might I ask for an answer to my questions?

Quirk_Douglas

Nodin wrote: »

Might I ask for an answer to my questions?

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

But since I'm feeling generous;
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mayor-of-Limerick-City-wants-road-signs-in-Polish-and-African-161191035.html

When people in power put the idea out there, there's a good chance that it may eventually come to fruition. I propose that Irish culture should always come first - I'm immovable in this view. I'm not sure why anybody would argue against that, it's borderline treachery.

Annasopra

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

When people in power put the idea out there, there's a good chance that it may eventually come to fruition. I propose that Irish culture should always come first - I'm immovable in this view. I'm not sure why anybody would argue against that, it's borderline treachery.

But Irish culture constantly changes and evolves as I have already pointed out to you.

Nodin

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

When people in power put the idea out there, there's a good chance that it may eventually come to fruition. I propose that Irish culture should always come first - I'm immovable in this view. I'm not sure why anybody would argue against that, it's borderline treachery.

Thats the road signs. You've yet to provide a source for the story about "African schools" and to explain why Africans, Poles and "Middle easterners" can't tbe as irish as anyone else?

MadsL

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Nice Joyce quotes, he also wrote these;
http://loveletters.tribe.net/thread/fce72385-b146-4bf2-9d2e-0dfa6ac7142d

The problems Joyce thought Ireland had in the 1920's are vastly different from the problems I think it has in the 2010's.

Well. Dur. "Time passing" shock revelation.

He had issues with aspects of Irish society as does anybody who truly loves their country.

He loathed the place so much he left, and died outside of Ireland. His feelings were pretty clear.

The majority of his work revolves around Dublin, which shows that his heart and mind never left Ireland although he did.

Let me give you that quote in context again..

A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man wrote:

—Long pace, fianna! Right incline, fianna! Fianna, by numbers, salute, one, two!

—That's a different question, said Davin. I'm an Irish nationalist, first and foremost. But that's you all out. You're a born sneerer, Stevie.

—When you make the next rebellion with hurleysticks, said Stephen, and want the indispensable informer, tell me. I can find you a few in this college.

—I can't understand you, said Davin. One time I hear you talk against English literature. Now you talk against the Irish informers. What with your name and your ideas—Are you Irish at all?

—Come with me now to the office of arms and I will show you the tree of my family, said Stephen.

—Then be one of us, said Davin. Why don't you learn Irish? Why did you drop out of the league class after the first lesson?

—You know one reason why, answered Stephen.

Davin tossed his head and laughed.

—Oh, come now, he said. Is it on account of that certain young lady and Father Moran? But that's all in your own mind, Stevie. They were only talking and laughing.

Stephen paused and laid a friendly hand upon Davin's shoulder.

—Do you remember, he said, when we knew each other first? The first morning we met you asked me to show you the way to the matriculation class, putting a very strong stress on the first syllable. You remember? Then you used to address the jesuits as father, you remember? I ask myself about you: IS HE AS INNOCENT AS HIS SPEECH?

—I'm a simple person, said Davin. You know that. When you told me that night in Harcourt Street those things about your private life, honest to God, Stevie, I was not able to eat my dinner. I was quite bad. I was awake a long time that night. Why did you tell me those things?

—Thanks, said Stephen. You mean I am a monster.

—No, said Davin. But I wish you had not told me.

A tide began to surge beneath the calm surface of Stephen's friendliness.

—This race and this country and this life produced me, he said I shall express myself as I am.

—Try to be one of us, repeated Davin. In heart you are an Irish man but your pride is too powerful.

—My ancestors threw off their language and took another Stephen said. They allowed a handful of foreigners to subject them. Do you fancy I am going to pay in my own life and person debts they made? What for?

—For our freedom, said Davin.

—No honourable and sincere man, said Stephen, has given up to you his life and his youth and his affections from the days of Tone to those of Parnell, but you sold him to the enemy or failed him in need or reviled him and left him for another. And you invite me to be one of you. I'd see you damned first.

—They died for their ideals, Stevie, said Davin. Our day will come yet, believe me.

Stephen, following his own thought, was silent for an instant.

—The soul is born, he said vaguely, first in those moments I told you of. It has a slow and dark birth, more mysterious than the birth of the body. When the soul of a man is born in this country there are nets flung at it to hold it back from flight. You talk to me of nationality, language, religion. I shall try to fly by those nets.

Davin knocked the ashes from his pipe

—Too deep for me, Stevie, he said. But a man's country comes first. Ireland first, Stevie. You can be a poet or a mystic after.

—Do you know what Ireland is? asked Stephen with cold violence. Ireland is the old sow that eats her farrow.

He also had some pretty barbed comments about the Devil speaking with an Dublin accent.

He also thought dimly of those expounding Irish "culture".

His nurse had taught him Irish and shaped his rude imagination by the broken lights of Irish myth

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

In closing, if I may paraphrase Wilde;

Please don't. You have neither his wit nor his charm nor a thousandth of his intellect.

Pherekydes

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

...all-African schools will be built, some people say this is great, but it isn't. African [...] road signs will be erected...

African schools? Where?

African road signs? In what language? African?

Tell me, can a foreigner of any hue come here and settle and become naturalised?

old hippy

Quirk Douglas, a question or two

What kind of Ireland do you wish for?

Why do Irish people of various skin colours terrify you?

Is multiculturalism treachery in your book?

Oh, of course, what do you get out of monoculturalism?

coonecb1

The people on one side of the debate refuse to accept that there's any downsides to immigration.

I'm willing to admit the many benefits immigration has brought to Ireland so far, but am willing to say there should be limits to it. For that I've had to defend myself from accusations of racism and xenophobia.

Can the pro-immigration brigade please explain what limits they think we should have on immigration?

When do you think is a good time to say "stop". How will we know when we reach that point?

MadsL

coonecb1 wrote: »

The people on one side of the debate refuse to accept that there's any downsides to immigration.

I'm willing to admit the many benefits immigration has brought to Ireland so far, but am willing to say there should be limits to it. For that I've had to defend myself from accusations of racism and xenophobia.

Can the pro-immigration brigade please explain what limits they think we should have on immigration?

When do you think is a good time to say "stop". How will we know when we reach that point?

How about you first provide answers to the questions you have been asked already. Like how your 'optimal' 10% figure was arrived at?

As I have pointed out before -debating with you is like a cat chasing a laser pointer.

Quirk_Douglas banned.

coonecb1

MadsL wrote: »

How about you first provide answers to the questions you have been asked already. Like how your 'optimal' 10% figure was arrived at?

As I have pointed out before -debating with you is like a cat chasing a laser pointer.

As I've already explained, it is subjective. I took 10% from the current stats which say that 10% of the population of Ireland is foreign born.

Based on that, and looking at the country and comparing it to others I've visited, I believe Ireland has changed for the better, and I think now's the time to cash in our chips before we start seeing negative effects like other country's see.

I think there's a limit to how many different cultures can be assimilated in a short space of time, and let's try and work with what we have before increasing that 10% figure any further.

old hippy

coonecb1 wrote: »

The people on one side of the debate refuse to accept that there's any downsides to immigration.

I'm willing to admit the many benefits immigration has brought to Ireland so far, but am willing to say there should be limits to it. For that I've had to defend myself from accusations of racism and xenophobia.

Can the pro-immigration brigade please explain what limits they think we should have on immigration?

When do you think is a good time to say "stop". How will we know when we reach that point?

I'd only be interested in stopping the naysayers and bigots, tbh.

coonecb1

Also not sure whether I'm the cat or the laser pointer

coonecb1

old hippy wrote: »

I'd only be interested in stopping the naysayers and bigots, tbh.

Huh? Like the people pointing to ACTUAL problems that are happening in other countries?

Oh yeah, those racist bigots with their facts and such :rolleyes:

MadsL

coonecb1 wrote: »

As I've already explained, it is subjective. I took 10% from the current stats which say that 10% of the population of Ireland is foreign born.

So that is an optimal figure based on current levels. Tell me, do you think that level will fall or rise as Ireland stays in economic depression?

Based on that, and looking at the country and comparing it to others I've visited, I believe Ireland has changed for the better, and I think now's the time to cash in our chips before we start seeing negative effects like other country's see.

So until now it have been positive, yet at 11% it would become negative. Why?

Also what are the top negative things you foresee?

I think there's a limit to how many different cultures can be assimilated in a short space of time, and let's try and work with what we have before increasing that 10% figure any further.

Why would increasing the 10% increase the number of cultures, we already have 199 nationalities.

old hippy

coonecb1 wrote: »

Huh? Like the people pointing to ACTUAL problems that are happening in other countries?

Oh yeah, those racist bigots with their facts and such :rolleyes:

And what facts are you armed with, tonight?

10% good, anything more bad?

El Weirdo

MadsL wrote: »

Also what are the top negative things you foresee?

People booing the national football team and Liveline suffering a catastrophic dip in the JNLR ratings, I'd imagine.

MadsL

coonecb1 wrote: »

Huh? Like the people pointing to ACTUAL problems that are happening in other countries?

Oh yeah, those racist bigots with their facts and such :rolleyes:

What FACTS?

You have posted isolated examples and extrapolated doom and gloom from there!

coonecb1

MadsL wrote: »

So that is an optimal figure based on current levels. Tell me, do you think that level will fall or rise as Ireland stays in economic depression?


So until now it have been positive, yet at 11% it would become negative. Why?

Also what are the top negative things you foresee?


Why would increasing the 10% increase the number of cultures, we already have 199 nationalities.

Well, considering Irish people are emmigrating to Australia, Canada etc, I'd say the % foreign born might well increase. Then again, some of those emigrating are returning Polish nationals, so might remain the same, I don't know.

I don't think the extra 1% will make a critical difference, but I think 20% and above would be a little bit too much.

As regards the top negative things, I don't think you can rank them, but I would include possible religious extremism, inability of certain cultures to accept Irish culture (e.g remember the blasphemy law?), the potential "chasing out" of our traditional Catholic educational culture while at the same time insisting on special schools exclusively for other religions, which waste money in places like this:http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/muslim-school-is-slated-1775741.html

(Note that English wasn't even being taught as a second language in that school)

Other problems would be a lack of identification with being Irish and not really having their hearts in the place, which I find quite sad.

Nodin

coonecb1 wrote: »

As regards the top negative things, I don't think you can rank them, but I would include possible religious extremism, inability of certain cultures to accept Irish culture (e.g remember the blasphemy law?),.

Do please explain this bizarre remark.

coonecb1 wrote: »

the potential "chasing out" of our traditional Catholic educational culture while at the same time insisting on special schools exclusively for other religions, which waste money in places like this:http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/muslim-school-is-slated-1775741.html

(Note that English wasn't even being taught as a second language in that school)?),.

You're confused. Because the supposedly state schools are catholic ethos, other faiths run seperate schools. Removing the catholic ethos from most state schools will mean all children can be educated together.

coonecb1

I think it's worth investigating why people from Angela Merkel to David Cameron, have said multiculturalism has failed, and asking whether MAYBE they might be on to something?

As I said, both Finland and Japan are way more anti-immigration that I'd consider myself to be, and yet they don't really have the stigma of being racist hell holes. In fact, they are both strong and prosperous countries.

Why can't we hit the pause button, see how the next few years pans out of them and compare them to Britain, and then decide where we'd like to see Ireland go?

MadsL

coonecb1 wrote: »

Well, considering Irish people are emmigrating to Australia, Canada etc, I'd say the % foreign born might well increase. Then again, some of those emigrating are returning Polish nationals, so might remain the same, I don't know.

I don't think the extra 1% will make a critical difference, but I think 20% and above would be a little bit too much.

So 10% is not a problem but 20% is???

As regards the top negative things, I don't think you can rank them, but I would include possible religious extremism,

Like holding up pictures of an aborted fetus in a public place say.

inability of certain cultures to accept Irish culture (e.g remember the blasphemy law?)

Catholism = Irish culture

, the potential "chasing out" of our traditional Catholic educational culture

I think more Irish people want that than immigrants do.

while at the same time insisting on special schools exclusively for other religions,

Except that the majority of schools in Ireland prepare children for entry into one religion.

which waste money in places like this:http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/muslim-school-is-slated-1775741.html

You forgot that:

This morning, the INTO general secretary John Carr claimed the Department had failed to provide the school’s management with the necessary support and has made “no significant intervention” despite being aware of problems at the school.
He said the union wrote to the Department in 2004 complaining of irregularities in the employment of teachers and raised these concerns again the following year. The union also informed the authorities that the then Board of Management was in breach of employment and equality legislation.
However, Mr Carr said, the Department failed to act on these warnings.
“The Minister should be held to account because the Department knew for at least five years about problems in the school yet nothing was done,” Mr Carr claimed.

Other problems would be a lack of identification with being Irish

All immigrants need to become Irish? I lived there for 15 years but didn't become an Irish citizen.

and not really having their hearts in the place, which I find quite sad.

Do you also consider it sad when Irish emigrees don't really consider themselves Austrailian?

Nodin

coonecb1 wrote: »

I think it's worth investigating why people from Angela Merkel to David Cameron, have said multiculturalism has failed, and asking whether MAYBE they might be on to something?

As I said, both Finland and Japan are way more anti-immigration that I'd consider myself to be, and yet they don't really have the stigma of being racist hell holes. In fact, they are both strong and prosperous countries.

Why can't we hit the pause button, see how the next few years pans out of them and compare them to Britain, and then decide where we'd like to see Ireland go?

I asked you to explain your remark re "blasphemy". If you'd be as good?

coonecb1

MadsL wrote: »

So 10% is not a problem but 20% is???

All immigrants need to become Irish? I lived there for 15 years but didn't become an Irish citizen.

Do you also consider it sad when Irish emigrees don't really consider themselves Austrailian?

I don't have an exact figure for when it becomes a "problem", because that is so subjective, and some people think the UK has no problems whatsoever and they have a very high percentage relative to Ireland.

I'm going to ignore the whole religious education thing because it's a bit off topic and very complicated.

Not necessarily but I do think it would be a little bit sad if Irish people felt the need to raise their children as being Irish even if the kids are born and raised in Australia. If you're going there to start a family then the kids should be raised as Australians of Irish heritage. I think that's probably not the best example though as they are both English speaking countries.

MadsL

coonecb1 wrote: »

As I said, both Finland and Japan are way more anti-immigration that I'd consider myself to be, and yet they don't really have the stigma of being racist hell holes. In fact, they are both strong and prosperous countries.

Why can't we hit the pause button, see how the next few years pans out of them and compare them to Britain, and then decide where we'd like to see Ireland go?

Japan is a strong and prosperous country? sorry, what? They have been plagued with a lost decade of deflation and a housing slump.

3rd largest economy in the world but yet 24th in purchasing power parity per capita ranking; they manage to limp along with over twice the Irish level of people below the poverty line.

MadsL

coonecb1 wrote: »

I don't have an exact figure for when it becomes a "problem", because that is so subjective, and some people think the UK has no problems whatsoever and they have a very high percentage relative to Ireland.

That's pretty much my point.

I'm going to ignore the whole religious education thing because it's a bit off topic and very complicated.

I thought it was a serious problem of immigration? Now it is off topic?

Not necessarily but I do think it would be a little bit sad if Irish people felt the need to raise their children as being Irish even if the kids are born and raised in Australia. If you're going there to start a family then the kids should be raised as Australians of Irish heritage. I think that's probably not the best example though as they are both English speaking countries.

So no Irish being taught to them? Would you oppose that?
Would they be allowed irish foods? Taytos?
Would the be allowed to join a GAA club?

Toby Take a Bow

coonecb1 wrote: »

I think it's worth investigating why people from Angela Merkel to David Cameron, have said multiculturalism has failed, and asking whether MAYBE they might be on to something?

It's interesting seeing you avoid the questions in ever more desperate ways. How's about you don't investigate why Merkel and Cameron are critical of multiculturalism and explain why you are?

coonecb1 wrote: »

As I said, both Finland and Japan are way more anti-immigration that I'd consider myself to be, and yet they don't really have the stigma of being racist hell holes.

Japan doesn't have a racist stigma? Really? Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just talking about something about which you have no clue? Finland's treatment of 'natives' was not exactly progressive, and they have been grappling with racism over the last few years.

Death and Taxes

No doubt the usual AH naysayers will have something negative to say despite the evidence.
Immigration is not a threat it is a necessity!
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/immigrants-play-vital-economic-role-even-in-slump-3270933.html

Ghandee

But what about the free buggies and dole robbers :pac:

El Weirdo

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No doubt the usual AH naysayers will have something negative to say despite the evidence.
Immigration is not a threat it is a necessity!
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/immigrants-play-vital-economic-role-even-in-slump-3270933.html

Merged with existing thread on immigrants.

Death and Taxes

Ghandee wrote: »

But what about the free buggies and dole robbers :pac:

Lol, you forgot the Islamist Jihadi, swan eaters!