199 different nationalities now in Ireland

summerskin

not yet wrote: »

Pherekydes wrote: »

According to the CSO, the number of Pakistanis living in Ireland increased from 2,939 in 2002 to 6,847 in 2011, a net increase of 3,908, which equates to less than a 500 per year increase. So where are these thousands each year you speak of?

A quick check shows me in 2011 795 were issued, even allowing that figure as a point of reference do you believe this is acceptable whilst 20-28 year old's cannot find work.

Ok. So Australia, GB, USA shouldn't let the Irish enter for the same reasons, how's that sound?

MadsL

@Notyet The UK is back in serious recession. I propose closing the doors to the Irish. That will help, would you agree? Plus a systematic programme of deporting Irish on the dole in the UK. That OK too? And if times get really tough, if your name is O'Something - out ya go. Still alright with that?

not yet

summerskin wrote: »

Ok. So Australia, GB, USA shouldn't let the Irish enter for the same reasons, how's that sound?

The difference being these countries have massive labour markets and 10s of millions of people. We on the other hand are a small country with a reasonably small labour market. Let me ask you all a question, If the government said as of Jan 1st next year they were issuing 1 million new PPS numbers on a first come basis to all non nationals would that be acceptable.

not yet

Pherekydes wrote: »

According to the CSO, the number of Pakistanis living in Ireland increased from 2,939 in 2002 to 6,847 in 2011, a net increase of 3,908, which equates to less than a 500 per year increase. So where are these thousands each year you speak of?

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

Pherekydes

not yet wrote: »

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

The net migration is 3908 Pakistanis inwards. Do you think that everyone who's issued with a PPS number stays permanently? Maybe it'll improve your understanding of the numbers to realise that people come and go.

Anyway, about these millions...

El Weirdo

not yet wrote: »

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

Not to mention the fact that Pakistanis and Indians generally aren't white, eh?

not yet

MadsL wrote: »

@Notyet The UK is back in serious recession. I propose closing the doors to the Irish. That will help, would you agree? Plus a systematic programme of deporting Irish on the dole in the UK. That OK too? And if times get really tough, if your name is O'Something - out ya go. Still alright with that?

Who mentioned anything about a systematic deportation of anyone, It's foolish **** like that that makes a rational debate on this forum impossible. Why can't we just not re-issue work permits when they run out. And implement a Swedish- Ozzie style system where If the jobs are here we invite applications from non EE nationals to apply.

not yet

El Weirdo wrote: »

Not to mention the fact that Pakistanis and Indians generally aren't white, eh?

Classic

not yet

Pherekydes wrote: »

The net migration is 3908 Pakistanis inwards. Do you think that everyone who's issued with a PPS number stays permanently? Maybe it'll improve your understanding of the numbers to realise that people come and go.

Anyway, about these millions...

Wow, condescending as well, nice touch.

bodice ripper

Gurgle wrote: »

Who's missing? Is there a prize for completing the set?

did they count the Order of Malta? seemingly it's a sovereign state...

jfallon

Herb Powell wrote: »

It's a point, but not a very good point, because it assumes that none of the immigrants are employed or paying taxes. Which anyone with a bit of cop on would know is utter bolloccks

Sorry Herb, it appears you missed the point I was trying to make an immediately jumped at the sniff of what you presumed was an 'anti-immigrant' post without thinking it through, maybe it was the lure of the thought of all those ‘Thanks’ you'd pick up?
So, I'll come at it another way for you. In the past 13yrs almost 500,000 immigrants have joined us in Ireland putting additional strain on already strained health, housing and education budgets. Now if these budgets had have been increased by 20% to cope with the extra service demand well then we wouldn't have a problem, the fact is they haven't, some have already been reduced in recent budgets and by the look of things spending will either stay the same or possibly be cut even further in the coming years due to the apocalyptic financial crisis we are currently experiencing in Ireland - this is why I used the 'sinking ship' analogy, does that make it any clearer now I have elaborated on my point? I don't know were you took from my post that I assumed all of them were not working, besides any increase in tax take is likely to go towards paying our enormous debt and less likely to be spent on improving vital services.
So my question is, are you in favour of further unrestricted immigration into Ireland in light of the present jobs and financial crisis? Obviously there isn't a lot we can do about free movement within the EU but in my view we should have an immediate freeze on visas been issued to non-EU migrants unless of course we have jobs available which we can't fill with an Irish or EU worker.

not yet

jfallon wrote: »

Sorry Herb, it appears you missed the point I was trying to make an immediately jumped at the sniff of what you presumed was an 'anti-immigrant' post without thinking it through, maybe it was the lure of the thought of all those ‘Thanks’ you'd pick up?
So, I'll come at it another way for you. In the past 13yrs almost 500,000 immigrants have joined us in Ireland putting additional strain on already strained health, housing and education budgets. Now if these budgets had have been increased by 20% to cope with the extra service demand well then we wouldn't have a problem, the fact is they haven't, some have already been reduced in recent budgets and by the look of things spending will either stay the same or possibly be cut even further in the coming years due to the apocalyptic financial crisis we are currently experiencing in Ireland - this is why I used the 'sinking ship' analogy, does that make it any clearer now I have elaborated on my point? I don't know were you took from my post that I assumed all of them were not working, besides any increase in tax take is likely to go towards paying our enormous debt and less likely to be spent on improving vital services.
So my question is, are you in favour of further unrestricted immigration into Ireland in light of the present jobs and financial crisis? Obviously there isn't a lot we can do about free movement within the EU but in my view we should have an immediate freeze on visas been issued to non-EU migrants unless of course we have jobs available which we can't fill with an Irish or EU worker.

I smell racism in that post ......

The problem is nobody can have a open and honest debate without people throwing the race card on the table. I looked up the PPS numbers issued from 2002 and was amazed at the different nationalities who have come here. As you said If our Health services were increased in line with these figures or we had not got 450,000 on welfare I would say fine. I just don't get it...!! In a time of almost national crisis we are still issuing these PPS numbers. I mentioned in an earlier post 29k Pakistani and Indian Nationals have come here and the race card was dropped into the ''debate''. The reason I mentioned this was simply because they were some of the highest figures. Christ when you can't even discuss this without people throwing the race card in we really have gone PC mad.

coonecb1

not yet wrote: »

After a quick check the amount of pps numbers issued to Pakistanis between 2002-2009 is 11,000 in the same period 28,000 were issued to Indian Nationals. That makes TOTAL of 39,000 from these two countries alone. I find that hard to understand. We can rabbit on about what if Oz and Canada,USA etc sent Irish nationals home, the difference is we have long standing relationships with these countries some of which we helped found.

That's a good point. Oz, Canada and the US are 'New World' countries that were predominantly shaped by settlers and immigrants. Irish were one of the highest historical proportion of immigrants to those countries, at a time when immigration was badly needed by those countries to grow their economies.

This is totally different to the Indian/Pakistan immigration to Ireland, which is not particularly necessary for our economy, it does add a strain on our public services, and lastly people from those countries don't tend to mix as naturally into the country as people from Europe do.

old hippy

not yet wrote: »

Christ when you can't even discuss this without people throwing the race card in we really have gone PC mad.

Or the "pc mad/brigade" card :rolleyes:

I find on occasions, the wisdom of Fintan O' Toole comes in handy

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

Nodin

not yet wrote: »

.............. I mentioned in an earlier post 29k Pakistani and Indian Nationals have come here and the race card was dropped into the ''debate''.....................

Do you know why they came here?

not yet

Nodin wrote: »

Do you know why they came here?

I assume to work....

I cannot understand how we as a country issue PPS numbers year after year when we have 450,000 on the dole, On a different note this only suits IBEC and ISME etc as they see this as cheap labour.

These groups were known to have lobbied Mary Harney back in the day to open up or boarders to ''cheap'' labour.

Nodin

not yet wrote: »

I assume to work....

......

Why?

not yet

Nodin wrote: »

Why?

What's this questions and answers...!! I would take a wild guess at no work in their own country/better life etc....

Nodin

not yet wrote: »

What's this questions and answers...!! I would take a wild guess at no work in their own country/better life etc....

I meant why do you think they all came here to work? There are, if you take a look, many persons from that part of the world here as students.

Gurgle

Nodin wrote: »

I meant why do you think they all came here to work? There are, if you take a look, many persons from that part of the world here as students.

Paying very well for the education too, and subsidizing ours.

not yet

Nodin wrote: »

I meant why do you think they all came here to work? There are, if you take a look, many persons from that part of the world here as students.

Oh, so are they not counted in the figures given for PPS number.

I'm sorry but it is a well known trick to apply for a student visa, which allows you work 20 hours, and when you arrive the learning aspect goes out the window.

not yet

Gurgle wrote: »

Paying very well for the education too, and subsidizing ours.

Dilusional...

Gurgle

not yet wrote: »

Dilusional...

Yes, I can see two illusions at once.

But is this relevant to the fees paid by non EU citizens when they come to study here?

not yet

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes, I can see two illusions at once.

But is this relevant to the fees paid by non EU citizens when they come to study here?

Wow, So I take it your not up to speed on the investigation done 2 years ago that showed most of these ''classrooms'' empty.

Gurgle

not yet wrote: »

Wow, So I take it your not up to speed on the investigation done 2 years ago that showed most of these ''classrooms'' empty.

Which you forgot to provide a link to....

Let me fill in some of the info you're missing:
Report from 2010
Key points from the executive summary:

The report explores data on 25,781 international students from 159 countries, across the four higher education sectors.

The total tuition income recorded was €192 million, an increase of €28 million on 2006/7.

Living costs add an estimated €236 million, bringing the total estimated income to €428 million (not including airfares and family visits).

The number of full-time students has increased by 10%, to 66% of all international students (17,204).

International students taking PhDs programmes in Ireland have increased dramatically to over 2000, 8% of the total and well above international averages.

The numbers taking Masters programmes have also increased.

Postgraduate study is particularly focussed on science related disciplines, but there is evidence of growth in every subject.

Madam_X

not yet wrote: »

Dilusional...

How is it? Students who come here from outside the EU have to pay huge fees - and it's going into the state's coffers. But you're only interested in focusing on how they have the audacity to get part-time jobs in Spar and Supermacs?

What classrooms? Non EU students aren't all piled into classrooms of their own like.

Itwasntme.

not yet wrote: »

Dilusional...

Not delusional at all. I am one of those students with a PPS number. I am here on a two year programme and I am going to be paying back my massive student loan for a loooooong time. Most of my friends here and their friends are other international students and they are also paying ridiculous amounts of money to be here.

Higher

jfallon wrote: »

Sorry Herb, it appears you missed the point I was trying to make an immediately jumped at the sniff of what you presumed was an 'anti-immigrant' post without thinking it through, maybe it was the lure of the thought of all those ‘Thanks’ you'd pick up?
So, I'll come at it another way for you. In the past 13yrs almost 500,000 immigrants have joined us in Ireland putting additional strain on already strained health, housing and education budgets. Now if these budgets had have been increased by 20% to cope with the extra service demand well then we wouldn't have a problem, the fact is they haven't, some have already been reduced in recent budgets and by the look of things spending will either stay the same or possibly be cut even further in the coming years due to the apocalyptic financial crisis we are currently experiencing in Ireland - this is why I used the 'sinking ship' analogy, does that make it any clearer now I have elaborated on my point? I don't know were you took from my post that I assumed all of them were not working, besides any increase in tax take is likely to go towards paying our enormous debt and less likely to be spent on improving vital services.
So my question is, are you in favour of further unrestricted immigration into Ireland in light of the present jobs and financial crisis? Obviously there isn't a lot we can do about free movement within the EU but in my view we should have an immediate freeze on visas been issued to non-EU migrants unless of course we have jobs available which we can't fill with an Irish or EU worker.

Very strange way of looking at it considering the vast majority pay taxes. Strain on housing? Sure isn't the big problem right now that no one WANTS the already built houses? The strain on health is for a variety of reasons mostly to do with Irish inepitude at managing anything bigger than a box, overpriced consultants and a severely unhealthy nation - nothing to do with immigrants.

The budgets should be adjusted according to the increased influx of tax money. It's hardly immigrants fault if the government chooses to spend those taxes elsewhere.

By the way, it is not in the interest of our economy to fire foreign people who were hired on the basis of being the best candidate for the job in order to hire an Irish worker who is less competent. As I repeatedly say, competition is the best thing for our economy. If you can't deal with that then go to Australia, but don't try to blame hard working immigrants who get the job on the basis of being better qualified.

K-9

Gurgle wrote: »

Which you forgot to provide a link to....

Let me fill in some of the info you're missing:
Report from 2010
Key points from the executive summary:

Enough with yer fancy facts, it was on that TV3 investigation show so obviously they are all at.

Nodin

not yet wrote: »

Oh, so are they not counted in the figures given for PPS number.

I'm sorry but it is a well known trick to apply for a student visa, which allows you work 20 hours, and when you arrive the learning aspect goes out the window.

Amazing. Even when they aren't, 'they are'.

not yet

Gurgle wrote: »

Which you forgot to provide a link to....

Let me fill in some of the info you're missing:
Report from 2010
Key points from the executive summary:

Google: Overseas student scam Ireland, read the first item in Irish independant.

10,000 I think the figure is. but then again whats that between friends.

old hippy

not yet wrote: »

Google: Overseas student scam Ireland, read the first item in Irish independant.

10,000 I think the figure is. but then again whats that between friends.

Ah, the Indo. That bastion of truth and impartial, non agenda led journalism

not yet

K-9 wrote: »

Enough with yer fancy facts, it was on that TV3 investigation show so obviously they are all at.

Hooray Ain't I funny.

old hippy

not yet wrote: »

Hooray Ain't I funny.

Using the Indo and er, TV3 to back up your agenda is kind of amusing. Is that part of the "honest and open" debate you were looking for?

not yet

old hippy wrote: »

Using the Indo and er, TV3 to back up your agenda is kind of amusing. Is that part of the "honest and open" debate you were looking for?

No, I rather use some other media such as the Lefty whooly gazette

Tchaikovsky

I think Africa joined the EU the same year as China and Brazil :pac:

Chinasea

Did any one mention 199 buggies left at bus stops yet?

Tchaikovsky

Higher wrote: »

By the way, it is not in the interest of our economy to fire foreign people who were hired on the basis of being the best candidate for the job in order to hire an Irish worker who is less competent. As I repeatedly say, competition is the best thing for our economy. If you can't deal with that then go to Australia, but don't try to blame hard working immigrants who get the job on the basis of being better qualified.

But who is anyone to say that the immigrant is better qualified or more competent than the Irish person? A self-depreciating Irish person I suppose :rolleyes:

Also, with a lot of cases, it isn't about the capabilities of the candidate, it's the employer's willingness to pay below minimum wage and undermine everyone. That's what's going on.

Peregrine

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I think Africa joined the EU the same year as China and Brazil :pac:

So original, didn't hear it like 14 times in this thread already or anything :rolleyes:

Pherekydes

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

A self-depreciating Irish person I suppose :rolleyes:

It's well known that Irish people depreciate at a faster rate.

Nodin

Pherekydes wrote: »

It's well known that Irish people depreciate at a faster rate.

Especially in the heat.

not yet

Well i'm glad some folk here find it funny that we have 450,000 on welfare........

Nodin

not yet wrote: »

Well i'm glad some folk here find it funny that we have 450,000 on welfare........

......that's got fuck all to do with some Indian lads though.

not yet

Nodin wrote: »

......that's got fuck all to do with some Indian lads though.

My oh my we are looking trough rose tinted classes....

I have not gone into a Garage,centra,cafe, or hotel in the past 4 years without being served by a Non national Indian or otherwise.

Now if you feel it's ok to bring 10s of thousands of non EE nationals in to fill minium wage jobs while 10s of thousands of Irish kids waste away on the dole so be it. I don't.

9959

karma_ wrote: »

That's rich, coming from a lad who thinks Enoch Powell was a 'visionary'.

Enoch Powell was a visionary, he was also as mad as a fridge, correction, a racist fridge.
'Visionary' and 'Mad' are not mutually exclusive, in fact, oft-times they're symbiotic.
Think of Muzzolini, Hitler, Gerry Adams et al.

hooradiation

not yet wrote: »

My oh my we are looking trough rose tinted classes....

I have not gone into a Garage,centra,cafe, or hotel in the past 4 years without being served by a Non national Indian or otherwise.

Now if you feel it's ok to bring 10s of thousands of non EE nationals in to fill minium wage jobs while 10s of thousands of Irish kids waste away on the dole so be it. I don't.

Well, if all else fails, blame someone else.

Good job.

not yet

hooradiation wrote: »

Well, if all else fails, blame someone else.

Good job.

What utter sh1te......

The facts are there for everyone to see, 450,000 on the dole, PPS numbers still being issued to non nationals. If that is not alarming then I don't know what is.

Lets be done with it and just export all the People on the dole and issue ANOTHER 450,000 pps numbers.

not yet

not yet wrote: »

What utter sh1te......

The facts are there for everyone to see, 450,000 on the dole, PPS numbers still being issued to non nationals. If that is not alarming then I don't know what is.

Lets be done with it and just export all the People on the dole and issue ANOTHER 450,000 pps numbers.

He has to be a racist, Imagine not wanting to issue any more PPS to non nationals, that's hitler right there folks...

jamesjoyce1710

not yet wrote: »

My oh my we are looking trough rose tinted classes....

I have not gone into a Garage,centra,cafe, or hotel in the past 4 years without being served by a Non national Indian or otherwise.

Now if you feel it's ok to bring 10s of thousands of non EE nationals in to fill minium wage jobs while 10s of thousands of Irish kids waste away on the dole so be it. I don't.

but irish kids have the exact same chance of getting those min wage jobs, they choose not to take them cos they are too good to working in said min wage jobs.

AnonoBoy

not yet wrote: »

I have not gone into a Garage,centra,cafe, or hotel in the past 4 years without being served by a Non national Indian or otherwise.

While this was true a few years back I've noted a considerable rise in Irish people working in the jobs that were once occupied solely by immigrants.

I was served by an Irish girl in the Spar near Leeson Park this morning. Likewise an Irish woman served me in that Italian coffee place in Ranelagh yesterday.