Enda Kenny on the cover of Time magazine: 'The Celtic Comeback'

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 4:25pm

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed so far to tackle the removal of the Seanad.

This is going to a referendum.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed to stop shoving money abroad with bondholdeers.

This is not a failure, this is part of the agreement with the Troika. Are you advocating default?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed to prosecute ANY one of the religious criminals! (15,000 victims of sexual and physical violence known. 800 individual abusers identified. 18 Religious Orders named. ZERO Prosecutions.)

The government does not prosecute people in this country.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed to cut expense claims: http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/no-dail-it-dont-stop-the-expense-claims/

I'm not sure this is in the programme for government - is it?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on third level fees - Labour alone did a u-turn on that!

How is that a failure?? And how is it Labour's failure - this is a coalition government. Ever heard of compromise?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed of Recapitalisation - anyone remember Varadkar saying that not another “red cent” would be put into the banks?

...into Anglo, was what he said. But why not lie to strengthen your case?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the The Programme for Government which promised that banks in receipt of state support would be forced to forego a 25 basis point increase on their variable rate mortgage.

I'll have to take your word for this as I know nothing about it. Foregoing it would only be an exercise in robbing Peter to pay Paul anyway.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the EU/IMF deal. Anyone remember "The EU/IMF deal was a bad deal for Ireland.” ( Eamon Gilmore), and “a disaster and an obscenity” (Micheal Noonan) ?

Failed how??

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed to cut 75 million in perks - - massively reduced to 3.5 million. the unions said thy were happy - well schite, I wonder why! LINK

Perks? The allowances, you mean? Whether this is a victory or a failure depends on where you are on the left-right spectrum, surely?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed over fathers rights, its still on the long finger, going nowhere!

Is this in the programme for government?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on even getting 750 million from the culprits in the religious orgs that have actually left us with a bill of 1.5 billion!

Is this not being discussed right now? And how do you propose they force the religious groups to give up the money? Expropriate it?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed to see the creep Cardinal Brady arrested. LINK

LINK
They rather entertain him!

The government does not prosecute people in this country.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed with their Programme for Government states when they stated “we will establish a Strategic Investment Bank”. They failed with a massive u-turn!

So they failed in not sinking the banks and then they failed in not starting another one? Make up your mind.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed with upward Only Rent Reviews!

Or, to put it another way, succeeded in not destroying the value of NAMA property now owned by the state.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the Public Service Obligation (PSO) levy - they upped it again! LINK

Expecting people to pay for stuff is a failure now too.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the use of state revenue in conjunction with wasteful websites which duplicate information already available on other government websites! LINK.

Scraping the barrel a bit at this stage.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed with Competition & Consumer Protection.
FG Manifesto: Promised a new “powerful consumer champion”, giving it “additional powers – by constitutional change if necessary – to break up public and private sector monopolies and cartels.”
Whats happened - NOTHING!
No mention of this in the prior Competition Bill 2011, and no commitment to constitutional change.

Nothing...yet. Is it in the programme for government? This is a coalition government, not a Fine Gael or Labour government.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the ban of corporate donations!

Who said they would ban them? Is it in the programme for government?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed to deal with Dr James Reilly - Mr Kenny actually stated at one stage that James Reilly’s business affairs ‘entirely in order’ – and he stated this to the Dail! LINK

He's one f*ck up away from the door. The last thing the Department of Health and the people who rely on it need is further upheaval.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the issue of "Golden Handshakes" in relation to severance Pay for Senior Civil Servants, another part issue they failed to address!

Is this in the programme for government?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the reducing the number of TDs.

This is still being decided.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed in may ways over the Household tax.

A failure encouraged and facilitated by SF and the ULA. I don't think anyone comes out of that fiasco looking good - including those who refuse to pay.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed over their supposed Climate Change initiatives/bill.

Is this another thing that isn't in the programme for government? Or one that they just haven't done yet?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on their supposed cuts to junior ministers (instead of cutting 12 - they appointed 15!) LINK.

This was a FG idea. This is not an FG government.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on their cuts to quangos.

Yes, a disappointing record on this so far.

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on Ministerial advisors and their salary caps which was supposed to be within guidelines - broken constantly and massively!

Constantly and massively? A couple of times, and by 20 or 30% before tax?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on the Programme for Government when they promised to legislate to restore the Freedom of Information Act.

Is this another thing that they just haven't gotten around to in their 5 year term?

Biggins wrote: »

* Failed on protecting persona data! Re-quoting myself from here:

Was this in the programme for government?

Biggins wrote: »

Cronyism?
You want cronyism?

Not really, but...

Biggins wrote: »

To requote myself from here: http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/the-cronyism-nepotism-continues-no-change-then-from-fianna-fail/

Yeah, hiring family members to work in constituency offices or as secretaries etc. isn't something I like either, but it's hard to see how to stop it.

Looking over the whole list, the funny thing is that I don't disagree with you in terms of things that should be done, but look at most of what you are listing as failures, it looks like:

1. Things they never said they would do.
2. Things that one party said they would do, but not the other.
3. Things that are in train but not completed.
4. Things they haven't done yet.
5. Things where they did something that you just don't like.
6. Things they had no choice or no role in.

Taking those away, there are only a couple of genuine grievances - hiring family members (one in 5 TDs), the dicking around WRT James Reilly, the failure to merge/scrap more of the quangos, and one or two other things. Considering the sh!tstorm that we are in, that's pretty good.

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 4:25pm

Biggins wrote: »

We could debate endlessly over the above and I would disagree entirely for a number of reasons but anyway...

Would you care to come up with more excuses for some of their other failures?

Can we really call a government "good" when they fail, fail, fail and all we get is more walloped, more excuses and more lies, double-standards and cronyism - to say the least?

Is any government good when all it has to do is dream up yet another daily excuse for yet another failure?

That whole statement means absolutely nothing.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 4:26pm

Sorcha16 wrote: »

I do agree that there are still far too many of our public representatives only out to line their own pockets, James Reilly has left us under no illusion there -but publicly slating our country to one of the most influential publications in the world would have only been another nail in our coffin

My grandmother used to say a saying "When you can't say anything good about a person, sometimes its better to say nothing at all"

No one has slated (or tried) our government in the publication.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 4:27pm

Brain Stroking wrote: »

That whole statement means absolutely nothing.

Fair enough.
Continue onwards defending them with excuses for their many failures!

bluecode · 05-10-2012 4:28pm

Sorcha16 wrote: »

I do agree that there are still far too many of our public representatives only out to line their own pockets, James Reilly has left us under no illusion there -but publicly slating our country to one of the most influential publications in the world would have only been another nail in our coffin

Of course you wouldn't. But don't expect this rose tinted view of our situation be swallowed whole by the public in this country.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 4:31pm

bluecode wrote: »

Of course you wouldn't. But don't expect this rose tinted view of our situation be swallowed whole by the public in this country.

Seriously, I can see SF getting into government at the next election, perhaps when this government falls due to the stresses of having a conflicting left/right economic approaches to the problems we face.

I'd be very interested to see what the country would look like after a few years of SF rule.

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 4:33pm

Biggins wrote: »

Fair enough.
Continue onwards defending them with excuses for their many failures!

Which failure have i defended?

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 4:34pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Seriously, I can see SF getting into government at the next election, perhaps when this government falls due to the stresses of having a conflicting left/right economic approaches to the problems we face.

I'd be very interested to see what the country would look like after a few years of SF rule.

Honestly doesnt bear thinking about.

K-9 · 05-10-2012 4:38pm

seamus wrote: »

- They have failed to ban political donations to political parties
- They have failed to come up with any proposals to meet their promises on reducing the number of TDs/Ministers
- The wage cap has been broken a couple of times
]

Well they are supposed to cut a few TD's, I suppose we'll see.

Tbh, if basically implementing and finding ways to meet the Troika is doing a good job, he's doing great. The hard part is ahead with the Croke Park agreement and promises not to raise income tax rates and cut the main Welfare payments.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 4:38pm

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Honestly doesnt bear thinking about.

Well I don't live in Ireland, so it would only affect my friends and family. But I think it would be a good learning experience for a population who still don't seem to want to invest the time into learning what the problems we face are and what options are open to us. Let them choose the easy answers another time and see how it works out.

Francie Barrett · 05-10-2012 4:39pm

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

The good publicity is badly needed. This is a massive turnaround from November 2010 and hopefully it will make business leaders look at Ireland when deciding where to invest. Fair play to Enda, I see the usual moaners have turned up right on cue.

Irish people will always try to run down any positivity.

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 4:42pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well I don't live in Ireland, so it would only affect my friends and family. But I think it would be a good learning experience for a population who still don't seem to want to invest the time into learning what the problems we face are and what options are open to us. Let them choose the easy answers another time and see how it works out.

Given the progress being made it would be a tough pill to swallow. However, people get the government they deserve so what will be will be.

dj jarvis · 05-10-2012 4:47pm

bbam wrote: »

Publicity ??
But he wasn't voted in to pull publicity stunts. He was voted in based on the promises he and his cronies made during the campaign, and of course as a protest vote which is never good.

This is another government out to do the best for themselves as they can, they have done little since coming to office except follow on in the shadow of the previous corrupt administration.

Politics in this country is a lost cause.
and I think if you talk to any of the thousands who have to emigrate or the 15% of the working population who are unemployed, what has Enda done? the answer is nothing, nothing at all. the pensions fund was again raided for a "Jobs Strategy" which has seen nothing but the jobless figures and emigration increase, hardly a success story now is it !

And the whole argument about the damage that was done before they came to power is crap!
Their campaign wasnt based on "we'll see what we can do" or " it doesn't look good"or "there is nothing we can do", they made specific promises on what they would DELIVER, and they have failed the people on this, failed miserably.

funny funny funny

so you are trying to say ANYONE actually believed that ****e ????
haw haw - getting up yourself becasue a politician broke " promises "
please

washman3 · 05-10-2012 4:52pm

Sorcha16 wrote: »

Thank you but no, I've been summoned by nothing but my own intolerance to BS so you can take your tinfoil hat off now.

Where's all this alleged ammunition we have left? You are aware that the country is basically bankrupt, yes?

i have'nt lived in a cave for the last few years so yes,i an quite aware that the country is bankrupt,know exactly who bankrupted it,and who is continuing the policies to sink it even further.
Strange thing is when informed people predicted that this crisis was looming and mayhen would ensue they were continously lampooned by people exactly like you. the mind indeed boggles.:mad:

tayto lover · 05-10-2012 4:53pm

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Christ. The decision was never in our hands. The above statements are designed to inspire confidence in the party amongst the electorate and to get people to vote for them. As i explained earlier, anyone that focusses on pre-election promises (especially in times of global recession) fundementally misunderstands how politics works.

So you are saying we actually voted in one shower of liars as an alternative to another shower of liars. It's like Fine Gael did not win the election, Fianna Fail lost it. If that is the case then politics is lies and decent people should shun politics and liars.

seamus · 05-10-2012 4:57pm

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh, if basically implementing and finding ways to meet the Troika is doing a good job, he's doing great. The hard part is ahead with the Croke Park agreement and promises not to raise income tax rates and cut the main Welfare payments.

Agreed, they've spent their first two years in Government taking the easy paths. The hardest stuff is yet to come.

First on the chopping block I suspect Reilly will make some really hard decisions within the Health budget/department, then find himself pushed out by political pressure. However his replacement won't reverse any of the changes he makes, Reilly will just be a sacrifical lamb to deliver long-awaited health reform.

Ellis Dee · 05-10-2012 5:00pm

Doesn't it warm the cockles of your heart to know that our Taoiseach has been given a distinction that few others have enjoyed, like these two great statespersons:

http://www.infowars.com/images2/hitler_bush.jpg

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So you are saying we actually voted in one shower of liars as an alternative to another shower of liars. It's like Fine Gael did not win the election, Fianna Fail lost it. If that is the case then politics is lies and decent people should shun politics and liars.

I've asked the question loads of times on boards, but if the voters are such idiots that they only vote for populists, is it the fault of political parties if they tell people what they want to hear?

As a political party, these are your choices:

1. Tell the truth and get nowhere
2. Tell people what they want to hear and have a chance of success

What type of politics do you think this breeds? Why do you think Fianna Failure have been in government for most of our history? Does anyone know what Fianna Failure stand for?

As I said earlier in the thread, from a safe distance abroad, I would actually be quite interested in seeing what would happen in an Ireland run by SF and the ULA. I wonder would people finally learn that voting for those who just tell you what you want to hear (and govern not for the long run but according to whatever buys votes) is not a great idea.

Sadly, I doubt it - we have a couple of threads knocking around with people earnestly arguing that 'rent is dead money', in spite of everything they should have learned in the last 10 years.

intellectual dosser · 05-10-2012 5:04pm

Not exactly a fan of him or his party.

But getting on the front of Time is a good thing for Ireland. He isn't on the front of the US Edition, but I think the article will feature inside [Open to correction]. Even from a tourism perspective it paints Ireland in a positive light.

We wont fix anything by begrudging everything.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:05pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Doesn't it warm the cockles of your heart to know that our Taoiseach has been given a distinction that few others have enjoyed, like these two great statespersons:

http://www.infowars.com/images2/hitler_bush.jpg

It's been done to death already.

seamus · 05-10-2012 5:12pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Doesn't it warm the cockles of your heart to know that our Taoiseach has been given a distinction that few others have enjoyed, like these two great statespersons:

http://www.infowars.com/images2/hitler_bush.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1947/1101470630_400.jpg
http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1999/1101991231_400.jpg

Lame comparison proves nothing.

ScumLord · 05-10-2012 5:12pm

seamus wrote: »

First on the chopping block I suspect Reilly will make some really hard decisions within the Health budget/department, then find himself pushed out by political pressure. However his replacement won't reverse any of the changes he makes, Reilly will just be a sacrifical lamb to deliver long-awaited health reform.

Yeah those hard decisions will be cutting budgets but that's not really hard, it's the easy way out. I don't see them putting too much effort into reform, it'll be just cut budgets and tax something.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:15pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Yeah those hard decisions will be cutting budgets but that's not really hard, it's the easy way out.

Cutting which budgets? Easier than what?

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't see them putting too much effort into reform, it'll be just cut budgets and tax something.

Yeah, the notion of reform seems to be anathema to Irish politicians.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 5:17pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This is going to a referendum.

Now put off till when exactly?
Presently they are stalling and trying now to keep it it appears, in some guise!
So another possible future u-turn?

This is not a failure, this is part of the agreement with the Troika. Are you advocating default?
With the unsecured holders with we are not legally obliged to pay the gamblers - yes!

The government does not prosecute people in this country.
Tell me about it - they are useless and cowards!
Kenny don't even have the balls to say what we all know - his personal position on gay marriage!
Another sign of cowardice.

I'm not sure this is in the programme for government - is it?
They brought in changes to the expenses system, spoke to the public of doing so and while they were doing it, making a big song and dance about it - then reversed some due to party members grumbling! Their TD's got preference over what they then actually told the public they were going to do.

How is that a failure?? And how is it Labour's failure - this is a coalition government. Ever heard of compromise?
Was there a compromise? Please point out where, it will be news to the students.

...into Anglo, was what he said. But why not lie to strengthen your case?
...And did they stop shoving money into Anglo/IRBC?
"Not another red cent!" - No - just green Irish ones!

I'll have to take your word for this as I know nothing about it. Foregoing it would only be an exercise in robbing Peter to pay Paul anyway.
In your opinion.

Failed how??
1. Failed to live up to their very words.
2. Failed to bring in latest (and previous) spoken of reductions.

Perks? The allowances, you mean? Whether this is a victory or a failure depends on where you are on the left-right spectrum, surely?
Yep, yet another massive u-turn.
Must keep Labour happy and the unions too.

Is this in the programme for government?
Does it have to be?
They are allowing the matter to drag on lik previous governments and saying nothing more on the matter.
Its another "Its coming..." issue.
Just don't hold your breath!

Is this not being discussed right now? And how do you propose they force the religious groups to give up the money? Expropriate it?
Its been discussed and then some for how long now!
Its time to start seizing assets, property and tracing/freezing their bank accounts. Fcuk them!
If they don't like it, they can get the hell out of the country!

The government does not prosecute people in this country.
Indeed it does not!

So they failed in not sinking the banks and then they failed in not starting another one? Make up your mind.
Did I say "they failed in not sinking the banks" - please show where?
They failed in creating one that was supposed to try getting a better financial structure in place which would thus lead to further aiding financial stability.

Or, to put it another way, succeeded in not destroying the value of NAMA property now owned by the state.
Tell that excuse to those hundreds of thousands whos bed-sits and flat rents have gone up.
I'm sure they will understand!
P.S. Not everyone who is in a flat/bed-sit, is in a NAMA property!

Expecting people to pay for stuff is a failure now too.
What!!!
They have upped yet another tax/charge/levy - Whats new with this government!
Any way they can, further bleed the people dry!

Scraping the barrel a bit at this stage.
One more example of their COSTLY stupidity!

Nothing...yet. Is it in the programme for government? This is a coalition government, not a Fine Gael or Labour government.
...And still nothing is done! O' well its a coalition government so that lets them off the hook!

Who said they would ban them? Is it in the programme for government?
FG said and yes it was.
...But hang on, it was an election statement so as we're now supposed to talk anything they say (according to some) as lies and bullschite, well that gives them the excuse to be let off the hook for that one too!

He's one f*ck up away from the door. The last thing the Department of Health and the people who rely on it need is further upheaval.
He will go when hell freezes over!

Is this in the programme for government?
They have brought up a number of times it was something they were going to tackle - they failed.
They quietly shelved it.

This is still being decided.
Yea, like a good number of things - don't hold your breath!

A failure encouraged and facilitated by SF and the ULA. I don't think anyone comes out of that fiasco looking good - including those who refuse to pay.
NOT supporting the ULA or SF but if the resentment and feelings were not there in the first place, SF and ULA would have have been so successful as they have been.

Is this another thing that isn't in the programme for government? Or one that they just haven't done yet?

This was a FG idea. This is not an FG government.
Still failed to cut the numbers - I don't think any decent Labour member would object?

Yes, a disappointing record on this so far.
ABSOLUTELY!

Constantly and massively? A couple of times, and by 20 or 30% before tax?
More than a couple of time - it memory serves me right, now at least six, seven times at least.

Is this another thing that they just haven't gotten around to in their 5 year term?
Yes, another long finger job - don't hold your breath job!

Was this in the programme for government?
Nope - they just failed to stop the clear daftness.
In fact they probably see it as another advantageous way to snoop on the public!

Not really, but...

Yeah, hiring family members to work in constituency offices or as secretaries etc. isn't something I like either, but it's hard to see how to stop it.

Looking over the whole list, the funny thing is that I don't disagree with you in terms of things that should be done, but look at most of what you are listing as failures, it looks like:

1. Things they never said they would do.
2. Things that one party said they would do, but not the other.
3. Things that are in train but not completed.
4. Things they haven't done yet.
5. Things where they did something that you just don't like.
6. Things they had no choice or no role in.

Taking those away, there are only a couple of genuine grievances - hiring family members (one in 5 TDs), the dicking around WRT James Reilly, the failure to merge/scrap more of the quangos, and one or two other things. Considering the sh!tstorm that we are in, that's pretty good.

"A rose by any other name is still a rose!"
Cronyism is still cronyism - and its still blatantly continuing!

See above.

Lawrence1895 · 05-10-2012 5:18pm

Actually, Celtic came back, they were 2:1 and won the match away to Spartak 3:2. Maybe, he is right for a change :pac:

Iwasfrozen · 05-10-2012 5:20pm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Americans don't speak Irish though.

Neither do the Irish.

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 5:22pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So you are saying we actually voted in one shower of liars as an alternative to another shower of liars. It's like Fine Gael did not win the election, Fianna Fail lost it. If that is the case then politics is lies and decent people should shun politics and liars.

What i'm saying is that whether they are liars or not doesnt matter. Those lies are told to swing voters who dont really know whats going on (the vast majority of the electorate). Try explaining Quantitative Easing to a community centre in Navan. Much easier to go in and say "we'll sort out those Germans" isnt it?

Romney is over in America telling people that Obama is the worst President in memory and that he has ruined the economy. An economy that was in dire straits when Obama took over. Romney knows he's lying. People with any brain cells know he's lying. Yet if Romney gets elected then he will immediately say "but the economy cant be changed overnight, its a long running problem" - completely contradicting his pre-election stance which afforded none of that leeway to Obama.
Obama is spoken of as a great speaker. Yet he made a lot of promises pre-election that havent been kept. He's being attacked for it and it might cost him but only because what he has done since he's gotten in has not been overwhelming.

What they do when in power is what counts. Thats where Obama may fail at election time. That is where Kenny gets some kudos. He took over a sinking ship and has steadied it somewhat.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:25pm

Biggins wrote: »

See above.

I'm sorry, but your post betrays basic misunderstandings about the way government works. You response to being informed that the government does not prosecute people - 'tell me about it! they are cowards... etc.' - betrays a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of government. For very good reasons - which I will explain if you cannot work it out - the executive arm of the government has no role in prosecuting people (outside of dictatorships).

As for the rest of it, as I said, your whole list is full of stuff they never said they would do, stuff they are in the process of doing, and stuff they haven't done yet but intend to.

A fairly sad, begrudging list. Complaining for the sake of it with no apparent insight.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 5:27pm

The summary version is that FG and Labour have lied, u-turned, double-standardised so far since coming into power.

...And we are supposed to just meekly like sheep accept this?
WHY?
...Because the country is in a bad way? Does that excuse their stupidity and incompetence?
Have things got that bad that we have to accept this crap with another excuse to justify us all turning a blind eye and not speaking up about it?

Then people wonder how the Haughtey's and Berties of this world got away with their own antics!
Hint: More turning of blind eyes - Aaa.. they did some good though! Lets gloss over the bad bits! Lets conveniently shove them to once quiet side and not talk about them!

This government was elected to represent the people of Ireland.
This government was elected to help the people of Ireland - not rob them by every fcuking way - not by one way or another get them to leave our shores, not to more represent foreign government institutions than they represent our own Irish bodies!

FG and Labour supporters will call the above rubbish and/or continue to be an enabler for the crap that is now our government - but schite is still schite, even if it does occasionally fix the roads or put a light on a street!

Biggins · 05-10-2012 5:33pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm sorry, but your post betrays basic misunderstandings about the way government works. You response to being informed that the government does not prosecute people - 'tell me about it! they are cowards... etc.' - betrays a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of government. For very good reasons - which I will explain if you cannot work it out - the executive arm of the government has no role in prosecuting people (outside of dictatorships).

As for the rest of it, as I said, your whole list is full of stuff they never said they would do, stuff they are in the process of doing, and stuff they haven't done yet but intend to.

A fairly sad, begrudging list. Complaining for the sake of it with no apparent insight.

Your free to knock me and argue the list of failures - but they are still failures and ones not tackled, mis-managed and/or continuing to be ignored while our traitorous government screws us all into the ground before and after exporting billions out of the county!

Continue propping them up, trying spin, excuses or turning a blind eye.
We clearly don't see eye to eye.

I see crap in government - you see something different!
Guess how the public now feels!

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 5:33pm

Biggins wrote: »

My own misinformed summary version is that FG and Labour have lied, u-turned, double-standardised so far since coming into power.

...And we are supposed to just meekly like sheep accept this?
WHY?
...Because the country is in a bad way? Does that excuse their stupidity and incompetence?
Have things got that bad that we have to accept this crap with another excuse to justify us all turning a blind eye and not speaking up about it?

Then people wonder how the Haughtey's and Berties of this world got away with their own antics!
Hint: More turning of blind eyes - Aaa.. they did some good though! Lets gloss over the bad bits! Lets conveniently shove them to once quiet side and not talk about them!

This government was elected to represent the people of Ireland.
This government was elected to help the people of Ireland - not rob them by every fcuking way - not by one way or another get them to leave our shores, not to more represent foreign government institutions than they represent our own Irish bodies!

FG and Labour supporters will call the above rubbish and/or continue to be an enabler for the crap that is now our government - but schite is still schite, even if it does occasionally fix the roads or put a light on a street!

FYP

TURRICAN · 05-10-2012 5:36pm

Celtic comeback my arse.
It's just another way of deflecting attention away from more cuts and sneaky behind the scenes Tomfoolery.

bluecode · 05-10-2012 5:36pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Seriously, I can see SF getting into government at the next election, perhaps when this government falls due to the stresses of having a conflicting left/right economic approaches to the problems we face.

I'd be very interested to see what the country would look like after a few years of SF rule.

Completely agree with you. A disastrous turn of events for this country and exactly the road down which we are travelling unless FG get their act together and the Labour party get real.

We really need to see something other than constant austerity and some form of a real turn around that ordinary people can see.

I don't think Kenny is the man capable of that. If things continue as they are. We're going to have the Irish equivalent of the National Socialist party in power in a few short years from now. Sorry to Godwinise the issue.

It's a real danger.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 5:37pm

Brain Stroking wrote: »

FYP

I wouldn't expect anything less from an enabler for this government.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:44pm

Biggins wrote: »

Your free to knock me and argue the list of failures - but they are still failures and ones not tackled, mis-managed and/or continuing to be ignored while our traitorous government screws us all into the ground before and after exporting billions out of the county!

But most of them aren't failures. The government not breaking the law, not stealing, not somehow getting five years worth of legislation drafted, debated and passed done in the first week - these things are not failures. And when they have a policy that you don't like - that's not a failure either.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 5:47pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But most of them aren't failures. The government not breaking the law, not stealing, not somehow getting five years worth of legislation drafted, debated and passed done in the first week - these things are not failures. And when they have a policy that you don't like - that's not a failure either.

They are not failures? Seriously?
You are saying those issues not exist, were not tackled as they arose?
There was no u-turns?
There was no double-standards?
There was/is no cronyism?

What country exactly are you living in and/or what country are you exactly looking at?

Good luck with that view.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:47pm

TURRICAN wrote: »

Celtic comeback my arse.
It's just another way of deflecting attention away from more cuts and sneaky behind the scenes Tomfoolery.

Isn't it lucky that Time magazine is an organ of the Irish government? :rolleyes:

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:47pm

Biggins wrote: »

They are not failures? Seriously?
You are saying those issues not exist, were not tackled as they arose?
There was no u-turns?
There was no double-standards?
There was/is no cronyism?

What country exactly are you living in and/or what country are you exactly looking at?

You keep dodging the points I am making.

Biggins · 05-10-2012 5:49pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You keep dodging the points I am making.

You keep making PR spin and excuses for a disgusting government.

Brain Stroking · 05-10-2012 5:51pm

Biggins wrote: »

I wouldn't expect anything less from an enabler for this government.

A pathetic comment but a coherent one so i suppose any sort of progress must be welcomed.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 5:51pm

Biggins wrote: »

You keep making PR spin and excuses for a disgusting government.

Pointing out that you are wrong in fact is hardly spin. Would you care to acknowledge my points, or are you happy just to fire pointless rhetoric around?

Biggins · 05-10-2012 6:01pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Pointing out that you are wrong in fact is hardly spin. Would you care to acknowledge my points, or are you happy just to fire pointless rhetoric around?

What points?
I have replied to your replies about mine.
Please state what points I have not answered.

We are told not by some that anything that was spoken about in either electoral time was/is to be basically ignored.
It was just election speak - lets think about that alone!
What does that say about the trustworthiness of our government?

WHEN is it ok to trust our government?
When can we now take that the words they state is true?

If we are supposed to now ignore any words at election time - who can we judge exactly and by what method, the future any electoral prospector will bring to the state and people in gain?

I post pointless rhetoric around?
Pardon me!
I post what I (guess what - others too) see as complete failures!

tayto lover · 05-10-2012 6:06pm

Brain Stroking wrote: »

What i'm saying is that whether they are liars or not doesnt matter. Those lies are told to swing voters who dont really know whats going on (the vast majority of the electorate). Try explaining Quantitative Easing to a community centre in Navan. Much easier to go in and say "we'll sort out those Germans" isnt it?

Romney is over in America telling people that Obama is the worst President in memory and that he has ruined the economy. An economy that was in dire straits when Obama took over. Romney knows he's lying. People with any brain cells know he's lying. Yet if Romney gets elected then he will immediately say "but the economy cant be changed overnight, its a long running problem" - completely contradicting his pre-election stance which afforded none of that leeway to Obama.
Obama is spoken of as a great speaker. Yet he made a lot of promises pre-election that havent been kept. He's being attacked for it and it might cost him but only because what he has done since he's gotten in has not been overwhelming.

What they do when in power is what counts. Thats where Obama may fail at election time. That is where Kenny gets some kudos. He took over a sinking ship and has steadied it somewhat.

Well I have a serious problem with liars in so far as I detest them and presume there are many like me. What is to stop lying on their CV's, Passport applications or past criminal record in order to enter a country?
Lying and deceit got us where we are but people like you find it acceptable now because it's your own who are doing the lying. I find that not only sickening but very sad but I suppose you are prepared to see history repeating itself. I am not.

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 6:08pm

Biggins wrote: »

What points?
I have replied to your replies about mine.
Please state what points I have not answered.

You have not acknowledged that lots of the stuff you accused them of not doing was stuff they never promised to do. You have not acknowledged that lots of the things they have not done is due to the fact that they were promised as part of a FG or a Labour government, not a coalition. You have failed to accept that they are working on some of your 'failures'. You have failed to accept that they have not got around to dealing with some of your other 'failures'. And you seem to fail to accept that having a different policy to your preferred policy is not a failure - it's a different choice.

On top of that, you advocate that the government takes illegal actions and acts like some sort of a totalitarian dictatorship.

Criticism is important - in fact, it's essential - but your brand of criticism, where you attack every single thing a government does, doesn't do, or hasn't yet had a chance to do, and describe every single point where you don't like their policies as a 'failure'; this type of criticism is completely useless.

K-9 · 05-10-2012 6:10pm

Biggins wrote: »

We are told not by some that anything that was spoken about in either electoral time was/is to be basically ignored.
It was just election speak - lets think about that alone!
What does that say about the trustworthiness of our government?

WHEN is it ok to trust our government?
When can we now take that the words they state is true?
!

Coalitions basically make electoral promises meaningless, well more meaningless than usual, something Irish people haven't grasped despite a long history of them, programmes for Government is what people should be questioning if they've delivered. While I'd agree with some of your points their hands have been tied than any other Government we've had with the Troika agreement already in place.

Annabella1 · 05-10-2012 6:12pm

Whatever one's views on our Taoiseach and the content of the article,I think it's better that he is on the cover of Time than not.
International investment here depends on confidence and this can't hurt.
Time is a very influential magazine in Europe and the US

Monty Burnz · 05-10-2012 6:13pm

K-9 wrote: »

Coalitions basically make electoral promises meaningless, well more meaningless than usual, something Irish people haven't grasped despite a long history of them, programmes for Government is what people should be questioning if they've delivered. While I'd agree with some of your points their hands have been tied than any other Government we've had with the Troika agreement already in place.

Biggins seems to think it is possible for both parties to keep all of their pre-electoral promises, even when they are in direct conflict - because if they don't do this, he accuses them of 'failure' and broken promises.

tayto lover · 05-10-2012 6:13pm

K-9 wrote: »

Coalitions basically make electoral promises meaningless, well more meaningless than usual, something Irish people haven't grasped despite a long history of them, programmes for Government is what people should be questioning if they've delivered. While I'd agree with some of your points their hands have been tied than any other Government we've had with the Troika agreement already in place.

The lamest of lame excuses. "He made me do it" !!!!

K3lso · 05-10-2012 6:13pm

Biggins wrote: »

They are not failures? Seriously?
You are saying those issues not exist, were not tackled as they arose?
There was no u-turns?
There was no double-standards?
There was/is no cronyism?

What country exactly are you living in and/or what country are you exactly looking at?

Good luck with that view.

Why don't you run for office yourself?

PPL need to get their opinions out there.

jank · 05-10-2012 6:13pm

Biggins wrote: »

They are not failures? Seriously?
You are saying those issues not exist, were not tackled as they arose?
There was no u-turns?
There was no double-standards?
There was/is no cronyism?

What country exactly are you living in and/or what country are you exactly looking at?

Good luck with that view.

I think your problem is that you are looking for utopia, can you tell me where the **** that is? You think politicians elsewhere in the world are better or dare I say it perfect? Come to Australia and I will show you exactly the same carry on here as in Ireland.

Politicians are a reflection of that nation or society. Brian Cowen, Beritie et all didn't steal power, they were voted in by electoral means...
The problem is with the people as they demand the government bend over fist to satisfy their every whim. That is what is different about Ireland, a massive sense of entitlement on behalf of many.

Enda Kenny on the cover of Time magazine: 'The Celtic Comeback'

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