Need Advice on Agressive Beagle.

Babeums

Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help me, I'm at my wits end. We have a beagle dog, he's neary 4 and we've had him since he was 12 weeks. He is and always has been a total pet, all lovable and adorable, until recently. About three months ago, he started becoming agressive, mostly at bed time.
We crate him at night, so we offer him a treat to make it enjoyable. Usually we would show him the treat, he would run out the back to do his business and then come in, jump into his crate and wait for the treat. Perfect.
However, without warning, he started growling and snapping if we tried to get him to go. We tried waiting him out, conjoling until he went in and have even just plain picked him up and put him in.
I brought him to the vet to see if maybe the crate was causing him some physical discomfort that we weren't aware of but she could find nothing wrong. Then just as suddenly as it started, it stopped. He was back to his usual happy self.
Unfortunately that only lasted for two months and now, it has started again. This time however, it's somewhat worse, last night he bit my husband. I know that this may go away again but I'd prefer if I could figure out what's causing it so that we don't have to repeat the pattern forever.
Just to give all the info, I am pregnant and thought perhaps this could be a cause but the vet said that she didn't think that was it. I really don't want to be afraid of what my lovable dog will do if my baby, at some far off point, does something that he doesn't like.
I don't want to have to resort to giving him away unless I have absolutely no other options. Any advice would be gratefully received.

westies4ever

has he been neutered?

Babeums

Yup, when he was one. My husband insisted.

westies4ever

That can be useful in taming aggression if not done already. Can you afford a one to one with a trainer? And also has your vet ruled out any health issues?

Babeums

He did have some minor health issues when he was younger but he's had a clean bill of health for a few years now. The vet said that it was very unusual for such a drastic change to take place but she was at a loss to explain or make suggestions as what to do. We just persisted with putting him into the bed when he wouldn't go but if he's going to bite each time now, I dunno, other than muzzling him...
I took him to a trainer before but he couldn't see the problem as it was mostly when he's being put to bed. He does get very excited when other dogs cross in front of our house too but other than that, he's a good dog. I know, how can I claim he's a good dog when he's bitten his master.

westies4ever

of course he's a good dog and you're only trying to get him sorted. my fella can be a bit grumpy but I just find as long as I'm calm and assertive he settles - he has never bitten me though.

Is your beagle well exercised? A tired dog will be much happier to go to bed.

maybe try another trainer as well - perhaps video your dog at bedtime for examples to show them the behavior?

Sorry if im not being much help - im certainly no expert, just a dog lover.

kylith

Is the agression centred around the crate? If it were my dog I'd look into anything that could have scared, hurt, or threatened him while in there as he may have linked the crate with something bad.

Mayo Miss

Try moving the crate to a different room and completely change the bedding. Encourage him to spend some time during the day in it. Give him a new toy or food treat and let him relearn that the cage is a nice safe place.

falabo

is the dog exercised enough before bed time ? is hje tired when it comes to bed time ?

Be assertive but gentle, make him associate going to bed with being something good, maybe use a Kong or something he really likes.

you'd have to be 100% sure there is no health issue before ruling this one out. it sounds strange to me that a dog that has always been perfectly happy to go to bed suddenly hates it . . . I know you're pregnant but has he been given less attention / exercise recently ?

fatmammycat

Can I ask why you 'put' the dog to bed? I'm not being smart, just curious. Could the dog not just go to bed hinmself when he wants? Lots of dog get a little narky when made remove themselves from the family. We go to bed here, turn off lights and so forth and our fellow just puts himself to bed.

westies4ever

I put mine to bed as well just before me and hubbie go. They sleep together in the kitchen and once they're in bed I close the kitchen door. if i let them do what they wanted they'd be on our bed. I dont mind that really but nobody (dogs included) would get a good nights sleep. They seemto like the routine.

fatmammycat

westies4ever wrote: »

I put mine to bed as well just before me and hubbie go. They sleep together in the kitchen and once they're in bed I close the kitchen door. if i let them do what they wanted they'd be on our bed. I dont mind that really but nobody (dogs included) would get a good nights sleep. They seemto like the routine.

I don't mean let the dog do as he wants. Mine isn't allowed into my room at night either (there would be no sleeping with that big lug on the bed), but I wonder if this beagle is being put into a crate at night and locked in. Might be why he's reacting so badly. I just mean wondered if it was possible to allow the dog retire to his crate when he wanted.

Whispered

It shouldn't be a problem though to put him into the crate if he's crate trained. It would still indicate something is wrong or something happened to scare/upset him.

I put mine into crates sometimes, they're crate trained and it doesn't bother them a bit. If it started to bother them I would worry about their out of character behaviour.

Babeums

Westies4ever,don't apologise for not being an expert, I really appreciate your help.

I have stripped the crate, washed it out, cleaned all the bedding, moved it and cleaned all around it. There's no draft and I couldn't find anything that might distress him. It was the first thing I thought to do. Pity it wasn't that easy.

Originally we crated him because he was soiling the room at night time, the crate solved that. We left him in it because he was happy and just like westies4ever if we let him out he'd want to sleep with us, so even if we shut him out he'd bang on the door all night. He's terribly persistant!

He hasn't lost out on his walks since I got pregnant as it's my husband that walks him so nothing has changed there.

westies4ever

fatmammycat wrote: »

I don't mean let the dog do as he wants. Mine isn't allowed into my room at night either (there would be no sleeping with that big lug on the bed), but I wonder if this beagle is being put into a crate at night and locked in. Might be why he's reacting so badly. I just mean wondered if it was possible to allow the dog retire to his crate when he wanted.

lol - i get you; mine are so funny; i tell them bed time and they pretend to be asleep - both have to be carried out to do their business and then tucked into bed. they would never go of their own accord but once in bed they're happy. i know what you mean though - there could be some seperation anxiety in there?

Whispered

If you leave him out now, does he toilet in the house?

barbiegirl

I have to say we crate our guy at night too. As in going to bed they both get a very high value treat. He loves this so as soon as he realises who ever is up last is heading off, he legs it up the stairs to get in his crate. If he's scared of something, such as the hoover, he also gets into his crate to hide.

The door is shut as he is a guarder and we would all be up as he barked at everything and everyone who goes by or near the house. When his door is shut he is happy out and no barking. It's like he relaxes completely. His sister isn't the same and only barks when there really is something to bark about so she is in her bed on the landing beside him.

OP it certainly seems that he is associating something bad with the crate, so either a new crate, or try leaving the door open and treats inside. Get him used to going back in slowly.

As to the bite, was it re-active? Our trainer told us then when they don't like something to use treats to turn whatever it was they didn't like into a positive. It seems to have worked quite well.

Babeums

Truthfully I don't know if he'd still soil at night time, he's good if he's left in during the day, so he'd probably be ok. My husband is quite reluctant to leave him out though.
We use the same crate when we travel with him and he has no problem with it then. I'm at a total loss as to what could have caused it.

DBB

OP, with all due respect, bringing the dog to a trainer is a complete waste of time for this problem.
You need to have a properly qualified behaviourist (not a trainer) to help you, and they need to come to your home to do a one-to-one. A trainer simply has not got the proper training to deal with this sort of problem.
Whilst I know it's great to be able to use resources like this forum, the problem you've got there is too complex to be faffing about looking for advice on t'interweb. You need to address this now, and you need to address it properly.
For starters, did your vet take bloods? If not, then s/he cannot say there is nothing wrong with your dog to cause this behaviour. Were X-rays taken? Again, if not, then the correct conclusions cannot be drawn. You can proceed no further with ANY explanations for your dog's behaviour until medical causes have been definitively ruled out by a vet who has experience of working alongside a behaviourist to come up with answers: a prod and a poke is NOT sufficient to detemrine whether there's an underlying medical cause.
Whilst I wouldn't necessarily be rushing out the door to get thorough health testing done for all behavioural issues, in ALL cases where there has been a sudden change of behaviour, the chief suspect is an underlying medical cause.
Medical problems can result in learned behaviours (e.g. reactivity to being touched in certain places which used to hurt, but having received veterinary attention, no longer hurt... but the dog retains the expectation of pain when touched). Or, this problem may be entirely behavioural in origin.
A properly qualified behaviourist will go through all of the likely reasons why a dog would start to do what your beagle is doing, will systematically collect information, and use all of the information to make a proper diagnosis, because they have the training/knowledge/experience to rule different causative factors in, and out. This is what sets a properly qualified behaviourist apart from a trainer, or a quack. You will not get a diagnosis online.
Where do you live? Hopefully, there is a suitably qualified behaviourist in your area who can help. But please, do get help. This problem is unlikely to go away on its own.

Babeums

DBB, you're probably right. I suppose I was wishing for simple answer that would fix all my problems and give back my cuddly munchkin. Guess there's no easy way out

I live in Limerick, just did a quick google on behaviourists and didn't find any in the area. Can anyone recommend someone?

DBB

Babeums wrote: »

DBB, you're probably right. I suppose I was wishing for simple answer that would fix all my problems and give back my cuddly munchkin. Guess there's no easy way out

I live in Limerick, just did a quick google on behaviourists and didn't find any in the area. Can anyone recommend someone?

Aww, sorry to be the bearer of bad news on the quick-fix front! That said, if this turns out to be medical, and treatable, you might just get the quick fix you're looking for! For example, perhaps the dog has sore hips, or spine, or elbows, or whatever, which hurt him when he has to get into the crate, or which ache when he has to stay in the crate, and he now has negative associations with going into it at night time. I'm not saying this is what's wrong, just using it as an example. Sore joints can be very difficult to detect, really surprisingly difficult, without a really targetted medical investigation.
As for Limerick, there are a couple of "behaviourists" down there, and there are a couple of behaviourists
Give Bev Truss of Pet Problems a shout: http://petproblems.weebly.com/ Bev is a super behaviourist, properly trained and qualified, and good oul fun too
She's based in Ennis, and if not able to cover your bit of Limerick, I think she knows another suitably qualified behaviourist who covers Limerick who she can put you on to, I hope.
Good luck!

fatmammycat

Babeums wrote: »

Truthfully I don't know if he'd still soil at night time, he's good if he's left in during the day, so he'd probably be ok. My husband is quite reluctant to leave him out though.
We use the same crate when we travel with him and he has no problem with it then. I'm at a total loss as to what could have caused it.

You could try just leave him out for a few nights, if his crate is where he sleeps normally chances are he'd just got to bed himself.

Ziegfeldgirl27

My dog turns fairly nasty at bed time too. She has bitten me and my dad on several occasions.
She hates going to bed because it means being separated from us but I have always refused with letting her sleep with me because I don't agree with it. She stays in our utility room.

I brought her to the vet and to a behaviour guy but now what I do at night time is sneakily slip a lead over her head and walk her out on the lead. No snapping! It's only when you try to lift her or put your hand on her.

She would never think of biting you at any other time of the day, only bed time!

Babeums

Ziegfeldgirl27 wrote: »

My dog turns fairly nasty at bed time too. She has bitten me and my dad on several occasions.
She hates going to bed because it means being separated from us but I have always refused with letting her sleep with me because I don't agree with it. She stays in our utility room.

I brought her to the vet and to a behaviour guy but now what I do at night time is sneakily slip a lead over her head and walk her out on the lead. No snapping! It's only when you try to lift her or put your hand on her.

She would never think of biting you at any other time of the day, only bed time!

Can I ask, how long have you been doing that? I suggested it to my OH last night but I think he was too mad to accept it as a possibility. Did you come to it on your own or did the behaviourist suggest it? I'm not sure that I'll be able to find the extra cash for a professional right now. (just did a list off all the things we need for the baby, man that stuff is pricey!) Obviously if needs be then I'll do what I have to.

Ziegfeldgirl27

My dog is eleven years old now and it might have been five years ago I started putting the lead on. The behaviourist I took her to was no help to me whatsoever. I decided to put the lead on her myself.
Its funny how the dog lets me put a lead on but wont let me lift her even though no matter what she is going to bed!!

DBB

Ziegfeldgirl27 wrote: »

My dog turns fairly nasty at bed time too. She has bitten me and my dad on several occasions.
She hates going to bed because it means being separated from us but I have always refused with letting her sleep with me because I don't agree with it. She stays in our utility room.

I brought her to the vet and to a behaviour guy but now what I do at night time is sneakily slip a lead over her head and walk her out on the lead. No snapping! It's only when you try to lift her or put your hand on her.

She would never think of biting you at any other time of the day, only bed time!

Ziegfeldgirl27, did your dog's behaviour suddenly appear, or is a tendency she's always had?

DBB

Ziegfeldgirl27 wrote: »

The behaviourist I took her to was no help to me whatsoever.

I don't know any adequately qualified male behaviourists in Ireland. I'm taking it that your behaviourist was a "behaviourist"!

Ziegfeldgirl27

DBB wrote: »

Ziegfeldgirl27, did your dog's behaviour suddenly appear, or is a tendency she's always had?

No, it was something she always had.

Ziegfeldgirl27

DBB wrote: »

I don't know any adequately qualified male behaviourists in Ireland. I'm taking it that your behaviourist was a "behaviourist"!

http://www.keiththedogguru.com/

here is the guy i took her to. I think he specialises more in dogs that are disobedient instead of just nervous like my dog.

DBB

Ziegfeldgirl27 wrote: »

I think he specialises more in dogs that are disobedient instead of just nervous like my dog.

Thank you for clarifying this! But for the sake of clarity, he is a self-taught trainer, not a behaviourist, which is probably why he was no good for diagnosing the cause of your dog's problem behaviour.

Also, for the sake of clarity for the OP, one critical difference between Ziegfeldgirl27's dog, and your Beagle, is that Zfg's dog has always displayed the behaviour, which puts it in an entirely different category to your Beagle, who has suddenly started to exhibit it, out of character.
This makes a big, big difference in how it needs to be dealt with, and demonstrates how seeking info online has to be done with judiciousness. Just because the behaviour looks the same, doesn't mean it has the same cause. If the wrong cause is decided upon, then the wrong treatment approach is used, and you'll either get no result (at best), or, you'll do damage.
So, for example, what if your Beagle has started to resent going into his crate because he has low-level pain/discomfort? To ignore this, and get around the problem by forcing the dog into the crate with a lead, may result in an increase in aggression due to the medical condition worsening, and the dog being continually forced to do something that exacerbates the discomfort.
Again, I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but it is an example of how dangerous it can be to not properly diagnose the cause of the behaviour. Proper diagnosis leads to correct treatment.
You don't necessarily have to get a behaviourist in at this stage: a visit to the vet for a full behavioural/veterinary work-up may be all you need. If the vet finds there's a hormonal problem, or a muscoluskeletal problem, or a neurological problem, or something else, then fixing it may completely eliminate the aggression. That is assuming the aggression has not assumed a learned component by that stage.

Babeums

Ok it's far too early to celebrate any break through but he just went to bed for me with no growling or snapping. I convinced him to get up of his own accord and steered him towards the door, once pointed in the direction, off he went. I'm under no illusion that all my worries are over but am just thrilled that I'm not going to have another night of stressing that he's upset. He had no problem going in and even waited while I went and got him his stick. (I had expected a much longer ordeal, so wasn't prepared.)
I do appreciate that the other posters case was not the same as my own, thanks DBB for being so thorough. I may play this by ear over the weekend, vet isn't open again till Monday anyway.
Just want to thank everybody for your advice, may be back again tearing out my hair, but for tonight, I'm smiling.