Horse fair: Dublin City Council to charge €30 a horse casual trading fee

MadsL

Rigol wrote: »

i dont like either in the city centre.
maybe there should be fines for owners.

You know there are Dog Wardens, right?

Are we literally going to talk shit all day?

mikeym

Fine the horse owners if their horses poop isnt scooped

rubadubduba

i say nayyyyyy to the 30 euro feeeeeee.:p

Sunnyisland

As a lot of the same people visit the ballinasloe horse fair, which is one of the biggest and best organised in Europe, I don't know why this historic horse fair cant be well run & organised by DCC to the advantage of the City albeit the smithfield one in a much smaller scale.

Rigol

MadsL wrote: »

You know there are Dog Wardens, right?

Are we literally going to talk shit all day?

Yes, the dog wardens are there to stop streets being soiled with shi.t, because its unsightly, uncivilized and unhealthy and people don't want it in the city streets. Thats why if I had a dog and it sh.it all over smithfield square id be rightly fined.

Maybe you are.

Capt'n Midnight

“horse” means a horse, pony, ass, hinny or a mule;
“selling” includes agreeing or offering to sell, or displaying for sale, or inviting an offer to buy;

what about mares and foals ?

burgermasters

good idea,, kinda like a car in a sense,, the more you have to pay for it the more you respect it? thats what i say?;)

flutered

Pottler wrote: »

Well that's the end of that so!:D More chance of them coming up with a signed copy of the magna Carta tbf.

thats not a problem boss.

burgermasters

paying tax and insurance on them (the horses) will stop ten year old kids being cruel to them and they wont be able to have them? while the same time putting money back into the country?

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

Are we literally going to talk shit all day?

Rigol wrote: »

Maybe you are.

Ah, the insult. Guess you ran out of other shoite.

Pottler

flutered wrote: »

thats not a problem boss.

Probably not. Antiques are a favorite "other trade" of the "Harsey" set.

mosi

realies wrote: »

As a lot of the same people visit the ballinasloe horse fair, which is one of the biggest and best organised in Europe, I don't know why this historic horse fair cant be well run & organised by DCC to the advantage of the City albeit the smithfield one in a much smaller scale.

Ballinasloe is another disgrace...this year again there was at least one animal death, and numerous seizures. Not enough seized though, as vets weren't available when needed to verify the problems that were obvious to animal welfare inspectors.
Would be glad to see the back of Smithfield for a start...these fairs have no place in a decent society. I don't buy any of that misty eyed crap about tradition either...does anyone want to hold on to "traditions" that revolved around the abuse of animals?

MadsL

mosi wrote: »

Ballinasloe is another disgrace...this year again there was at least one animal death, and numerous seizures. Not enough seized though, as vets weren't available when needed to verify the problems that were obvious to animal welfare inspectors.
Would be glad to see the back of Smithfield for a start...these fairs have no place in a decent society. I don't buy any of that misty eyed crap about tradition either...does anyone want to hold on to "traditions" that revolved around the abuse of animals?

So traditions have to involve the abuse of animals?

The Dublin Carriage Drivers Assoc. has done a great job on reforming the Horse Carriage business; registered with the Carrriage Office (!), Insurance and flat fares introduced.

A while ago they would have been abused royally on here about their business with the usual 'knacker' comments.

Rigol

MadsL wrote: »

Ah, the insult. Guess you ran out of other shoite.

Yet earlier...

"How terrible you have to stay away from a tiny area of Dublin once a month, how are you coping?"

MadsL

Rigol wrote: »

Yet earlier...

"How terrible you have to stay away from a tiny area of Dublin once a month, how are you coping?"

A reasonable comment given your aversion to shit - must be terrible for you having to live in fear of horse shit.

Rigol

"Maybe you are"

A reasonable response since the question inferred I was doing so.

MadsL

Rigol wrote: »

"Maybe you are"

A reasonable response since the question inferred I was doing so.

I inferred you were rather obsessed with shit. Nothing you have posted so far has convinced me otherwise.

So, in the interests of an actual discussion, tell me how the smell of horseshit inconveniences you once a month? Do you even live in Smithfield?

burgermasters

MadsL wrote: »

I inferred you were rather obsessed with shit. Nothing you have posted so far has convinced me otherwise.

So, in the interests of an actual discussion, tell me how the smell of horseshit inconveniences you once a month? Do you even live in Smithfield?

The smell is not that bad as the fair is on a sunday and the dcc clean it up in the early hours of monday morning? :rolleyes:

Rigol

MadsL wrote: »

I inferred you were rather obsessed with shit. Nothing you have posted so far has convinced me otherwise.

So, in the interests of an actual discussion, tell me how the smell of horseshit inconveniences you once a month? Do you even live in Smithfield?

Inferring someone talks shi.t is an insult in most peoples books.

MadsL

Rigol wrote: »

Inferring someone talks shi.t is an insult in most peoples books.

On the other hand being obsessed with it is called Copromania, it is often indicated in anally retentive people.

Weren't we discussing something?

Nermal

MadsL wrote: »

The gardai have been roadblocking Smithfield in recent times, checking that horses are chipped.

Any chance we could lay off with the "knacker" talk?

Fine. Horse enthusiasts are in general either 'travellers' or aristocrats. I'd prefer both kept their fairs in the bog rather than somewhere I might actually encounter them.

MadsL

Nermal wrote: »

Fine. Horse enthusiasts are in general either 'travellers' or aristocrats. I'd prefer both kept their fairs in the bog rather than somewhere I might actually encounter them.

It is not exactly hard to know when the horse fair is on in fairness. Are you often out and about in Smithfield of an early Sunday morning?

Nermal

MadsL wrote: »

It is not exactly hard to know when the horse fair is on in fairness. Are you often out and about in Smithfield of an early Sunday morning?

On the off-chance that I might one day have to be, I'd prefer the whole affair be transported to somewhere outside the M50 that always reeks of horse anyway.

MadsL

Nermal wrote: »

On the off-chance that I might one day have to be, I'd prefer the whole affair be transported to somewhere outside the M50 that always reeks of horse anyway.

That's very unfair on Mullingar. Really should be ashamed of yourself.

Rigol

MadsL wrote: »

On the other hand being obsessed with it is called Copromania, it is often indicated in anally retentive people.

Weren't we discussing something?

Ah, the insult. Guess you ran out of other shoite.

MadsL

Rigol wrote: »

Ah, the insult. Guess you ran out of other shoite.

You also seemed obsessed with some imagined insult on my part, care to post where I insulted you?

mosi

MadsL wrote: »

So traditions have to involve the abuse of animals?

The Dublin Carriage Drivers Assoc. has done a great job on reforming the Horse Carriage business; registered with the Carrriage Office (!), Insurance and flat fares introduced.

A while ago they would have been abused royally on here about their business with the usual 'knacker' comments.

Unfortunately, tradition is a term often used when seeking to deflect from animal welfare abuses...think hare coursing, fox hunting etc.
Too often, in certain parts of Dublin, I see young lads with ill cared for horses racing around in sulkies. On the day of the Smithfield fair, I see them heading home after, galloping their horses on tarmac like a new toy. All around Dublin, I see these unfortunate animals lingering on wastelands full of toxic weeds and with dubious water sources. Horse ownership can be out of reach of most ordinary families because horses require a lot of time, care and money to keep them healthy...there is a massive horse welfare crisis in this country, it's so bad that an amnesty was brought in so that these horses could be put down humanely.
The way Smithfield has been run, it has been facilitating this. The proposed bye-laws are a good start...well, it's all they can do at present as shutting it down isn't all that easy.
I couldn't care less about horse crap around the place, there's nothing offensive about it. The animal welfare implications are the major issue for me.
If people have a problem with a €30 fee, then they have no business being involved with horses.

Rigol

MadsL wrote: »

You also seemed obsessed with some imagined insult on my part, care to post where I insulted you?

You go first.

K-9

Take the sniping to pm and stop cluttering up the thread with crap.

end of the road

breadandjam wrote: »

DCC are not interested

nothing new there, their paychecks and pensions and building things that nobody wants is all their interested in i'd say.

tomtherobot

mosi wrote: »

If people have a problem with a €30 fee, then they have no business being involved with horses.

Only rich people can keep horses?

I think this is clearly a move to get rid of this horse fair. Im not in Dublin much but hasn't there been a move to gentrify the Smithfield area. So obviously no working class types wanted, so get rid of the horse fair.

I don't buy this generalisation that poor people don't look after their animals properly. Yes it happens but only in isolated cases. There are many unemployed people who keep horses and treat them perfectly. I think this is something which should be encouraged as it's healthy to encourage hobbies and social activities in area where there are social problems.

I think it comes down to snobbery and wanting to keep people down. We can spend fortunes on employing groups of middle class professionals to deal with these problem areas. Where does the tax dollar go? To the middle class proffessionals.

We could provide facilities to working class areas to foster a healthy interest in keeping animals safely and well, at much less cost than employing all these different advocates and social workers and community facilitators and what not but it'll never happen. Firstly, these good for nothin wasters would have to get proper jobs and secondly there would be outrage that poor people are getting these benefits for free. When of course far more benefits going to the middle classes and above.

Professey Chin

tomtherobot wrote: »

Only rich people can keep horses?

I think this is clearly a move to get rid of this horse fair. Im not in Dublin much but hasn't there been a move to gentrify the Smithfield area. So obviously no working class types wanted, so get rid of the horse fair.

I don't buy this generalisation that poor people don't look after their animals properly. Yes it happens but only in isolated cases. There are many unemployed people who keep horses and treat them perfectly. I think this is something which should be encouraged as it's healthy to encourage hobbies and social activities in area where there are social problems.

I think it comes down to snobbery and wanting to keep people down. We can spend fortunes on employing groups of middle class professionals to deal with these problem areas. Where does the tax dollar go? To the middle class proffessionals.

We could provide facilities to working class areas to foster a healthy interest in keeping animals safely and well, at much less cost than employing all these different advocates and social workers and community facilitators and what not but it'll never happen. Firstly, these good for nothin wasters would have to get proper jobs and secondly there would be outrage that poor people are getting these benefits for free. When of course far more benefits going to the middle classes and above.

Its not that only rich people can keep and look after horses but we have a lot of legislation in relation to care and control of horses that I could guarantee a lot of the people trading at this dont fulfill. To actually fullfil the legal requirements takes a lot of time, investment and facilities.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/act/pub/0037/index.html

3ndahalfof6

Fook will it effect the human ones.

tomtherobot

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Its not that only rich people can keep and look after horses but we have a lot of legislation in relation to care and control of horses that I could guarantee a lot of the people trading at this dont fulfill. To actually fullfil the legal requirements takes a lot of time, investment and facilities.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/act/pub/0037/index.html

And this is another move to further legislate horse ownership so only the wealthy can obtain it.

Rather than foster a healthy sociable hobby for poor people, we criminalize them for trying to be involved with something they might feel passionate and worthwhile about.

Professey Chin

tomtherobot wrote: »

And this is another move to further legislate horse ownership so only the wealthy can obtain it.

Rather than foster a healthy sociable hobby for poor people, we criminalize them for trying to be involved with something they might feel passionate and worthwhile about.

So what youre saying is we should let people who dont have the facilities to properly control and care for a very powerful animal do so because they enjoy it?
If they feel that passionate about it theres numerous stables and animal sanctuarys around the country they can join or volunteer at while the animal is properly cared for.

byhookorbycrook

Personally,I'd like to have a leopard, but as I can't afford it, I don't have one. Horses are not cheap to keep, they need to be fed over the winter, regular worming, farrier treatment,flu' shots, possibly rugs and shoes.So yes, if you can't

tomtherobot

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

So what youre saying is we should let people who dont have the facilities to properly control and care for a very powerful animal do so because they enjoy it?
If they feel that passionate about it theres numerous stables and animal sanctuarys around the country they can join or volunteer at while the animal is properly cared for.

A cow is a powerful animal but it doesn't requrie special legislation to own one. Of course animal cruelty is wrong but special legislation around owning cats, where? It's clear to me there is a concerted effort, that poor people not be allowed to own or keep horses specifically and i believe that this is snobbery and oppression.

This is clearly shown by the second part of you're statement that they can come visit them at sancturies. You're so kind.

My family are horse mad. I'm not hugely interested in them myself but I can see how passionate people can be about them. I've seen plenty of poor people look after horses perfectly. I don't think this healthy outlet should be taken from the poor.

tomtherobot

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Horses are not cheap to keep, they need to be fed over the winter, regular worming, farrier treatment,flu' shots, possibly rugs and shoes.So yes, if you can't

Well I think you're overestimating to a degree, food and medicines yes. Rugs not necessarily or might be a once in a lifetime investment. And as regards care of hoofs, a lot of skilled horseowners could do a lot of this themselves.

To the best of my knowledge, it's not against the law to have a hobby if you're on the dole, and i think horseownership should be affordable to those on lower incomes. What makes it unfair is when unnecessary expenses are brought in, microchipping, registration, tax clearances to buy and sell (ridiculous) 30e charge to go to a horse fair.

I think it's pretty clear there is a concerted effort to make horse ownership as difficult as possible for the poor and this is driven by spite, snobbery and the desire to oppress.

ebixa82

tomtherobot wrote: »

Only rich people can keep horses?

I think this is clearly a move to get rid of this horse fair. Im not in Dublin much but hasn't there been a move to gentrify the Smithfield area. So obviously no working class types wanted, so get rid of the horse fair.

I don't buy this generalisation that poor people don't look after their animals properly. Yes it happens but only in isolated cases. There are many unemployed people who keep horses and treat them perfectly. I think this is something which should be encouraged as it's healthy to encourage hobbies and social activities in area where there are social problems.

I think it comes down to snobbery and wanting to keep people down. We can spend fortunes on employing groups of middle class professionals to deal with these problem areas. Where does the tax dollar go? To the middle class proffessionals.

We could provide facilities to working class areas to foster a healthy interest in keeping animals safely and well, at much less cost than employing all these different advocates and social workers and community facilitators and what not but it'll never happen. Firstly, these good for nothin wasters would have to get proper jobs and secondly there would be outrage that poor people are getting these benefits for free. When of course far more benefits going to the middle classes and above.

What on you on about? It's not about supressing lower classes. It's about pikeys with slash hooks and guns. €30 is nothing to pikeys, haven't you seen my big fat gypsy wedding?

MadsL

ebixa82 wrote: »

What on you on about? It's not about supressing lower classes. It's about pikeys with slash hooks and guns. €30 is nothing to pikeys, haven't you seen my big fat gypsy wedding?

...because every travellers life is exactly like "my big fat gypsy wedding" and slash hooks are the done thing to get for your 15th birthday.

Pikey. Really?

And yet all the talk about banning is about funny phrases on AH. Sigh.

tomtherobot

ebixa82 wrote: »

What on you on about? It's not about supressing lower classes. It's about pikeys with slash hooks and guns. €30 is nothing to pikeys, haven't you seen my big fat gypsy wedding?

Whats a pikey? Is it the same as a nigger, a faggot or a gook? Good ol Irish hatred and discrimination.

Capt'n Midnight

what's the story if you don't sell the horse

but lease it for a term of 30 years , payable in advance ?

If rich folk can get away with dodges like that why can't the rest of us.

ebixa82

MadsL wrote: »

...because every travellers life is exactly like "my big fat gypsy wedding" and slash hooks are the done thing to get for your 15th birthday.

Pikey. Really?

And yet all the talk about banning is about funny phrases on AH. Sigh.

I'm sorry, I taught we were talking about the horse fair in Smithfield which is full of illegal horse dealing and the selling of contraband and stolen goods. You know, the one where shots were fired at? Where those in attendance show no regard for the area and make sh.it of the place, leaving the taxpayer to foot the clean up bill.

Where most of those activities are carried out by pikeys.

Are we not?

ebixa82

tomtherobot wrote: »

Whats a pikey? Is it the same as a nigger, a faggot or a gook? Good ol Irish hatred and discrimination.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pikey

tomtherobot

ebixa82 wrote: »

I'm sorry, I taught we were talking about the horse fair in Smithfield which is full of illegal horse dealing and the selling of contraband and stolen goods. You know, the one where shots were fired at? Where those in attendance show no regard for the area and make sh.it of the place, leaving the taxpayer to foot the clean up bill.

Where most of those activities are carried out by pikeys.

Are we not?

Are we going to ban all concerts because of the far greater trouble at one Swedish House Mafia gig where fifteen people were stabbed?

And I find your attitude racist.

ebixa82

tomtherobot wrote: »

Are we going to ban all concerts because of the far greater trouble at one Swedish House Mafia gig where fifteen people were stabbed?

And I find your attitude racist.

Of course not. Don't be daft.

SHM should not play in the Phoenix Park as it is totally unsuitable due to the ease of access for scumbags to attend.

The horse fair should never be held in Smithfield as it is totally unsuitable.

Ballinasloe goes off every year without any major incidents as it's a much more suitable venue.

Had the SHM gig been held in the likes of Punchestown it wouldn't have resulted in half as much trouble.

(If I have to use your shi.te analogy)

Very sorry if my attitude offended you. Genuinely.

Vizzy

tomtherobot wrote: »

Whats a pikey? Is it the same as a nigger, a faggot or a gook? Good ol Irish hatred and discrimination.

It's great that we got 7 pages in before the auld "discrimination" card was played.

MadsL wrote: »

...because every travellers life is exactly like "my big fat gypsy wedding" and slash hooks are the done thing to get for your 15th birthday.

Pikey. Really?

And yet all the talk about banning is about funny phrases on AH. Sigh.

ebixa82 wrote: »

I'm sorry, I taught we were talking about the horse fair in Smithfield which is full of illegal horse dealing and the selling of contraband and stolen goods. You know, the one where shots were fired at? Where those in attendance show no regard for the area and make sh.it of the place, leaving the taxpayer to foot the clean up bill.

Where most of those activities are carried out by pikeys.

Are we not?

He probably doesn't know where Smithfield is cos he is living in Nevada USA.( or maybe there is a hose fair in downtown Las Vegas every Sunday)

gosuckonalemon

Vizzy wrote: »

It's great that we got 7 pages in before the auld "discrimination" card was played.





He probably doesn't know where Smithfield is cos he is living in Nevada USA.( or maybe there is a hose fair in downtown Las Vegas every Sunday)

You're right, by the sounds of it he's talking about a totally different Smithfield market!

tomtherobot

ebixa82 wrote: »

Of course not. Don't be daft.

SHM should not play in the Phoenix Park as it is totally unsuitable due to the ease of access for scumbags to attend.

The horse fair should never be held in Smithfield as it is totally unsuitable.

Ballinasloe goes off every year without any major incidents as it's a much more suitable venue.

Had the SHM gig been held in the likes of Punchestown it wouldn't have resulted in half as much trouble.

So by you're logic there should just be no concerts in Dublin because surely 'scumbags' could easily attend any of them? I don't think the SHM gig would have caused less trouble had it been in Punchestown, my understanding is it was mostly down to poor security/policing and this could have occured anywhere?

I think Smithfield is a very suitable venue as i think the horse fair has been held there for years? Maybe it's not suitable now as some people would like it to be gentrified.

I don't know of these major incidents at Smithfield could you fill me in. If they are occuring i don't think it's down to the horse fair, maybe there's just more crime in general in Dublin? In fairness there has been a lot of gangland activity there in the last few years, maybe that crowd has just started going to the horse fair, is it fair then to punish the horse owners?

gosuckonalemon

tomtherobot wrote: »

ebixa82 wrote: »

Of course not. Don't be daft.

SHM should not play in the Phoenix Park as it is totally unsuitable due to the ease of access for scumbags to attend.

The horse fair should never be held in Smithfield as it is totally unsuitable.

Ballinasloe goes off every year without any major incidents as it's a much more suitable venue.

Had the SHM gig been held in the likes of Punchestown it wouldn't have resulted in half as much trouble.
QUOTE]

So by you're logic there should just be no concerts in Dublin because surely 'scumbags' could easily attend any of them? I don't think the SHM gig would have caused less trouble had it been in Punchestown, my understanding is it was mostly down to poor security/policing and this could have occured anywhere?

I think Smithfield is a very suitable venue as i think the horse fair has been held there for years? Maybe it's not suitable now as some people would like it to be gentrified.

I don't know of these major incidents at Smithfield could you fill me in. If they are occuring i don't think it's down to the horse fair, maybe there's just more crime in general in Dublin? In fairness there has been a lot of gangland activity there in the last few years, maybe that crowd has just started going to the horse fair, is it fair then to punish the horse owners?

It's obvious you have absolutely no idea of what goes on at the Smithfield markets. Perhaps, should you get the opportunity, you should go down and see for yourself what exactly they are all about.
Until then any further comments or opinions you post in this thread are void.