Republic of Ireland v Germany - 12/10/2012 - 19:45 - RTE2/SS2

Francie Barrett

My thoughts.

Westwood: Not really at fault for any of the goals to be honest, can't read much into him based on this performance.
Ward: Going forward, he actually looked ok it bits and pieces. Defensively though, he is a train wreck.
O'Shea: Had a howler to be honest. Should have been sent off for that tackle in the first half, provided a dodgy clearance for another Germany goal.
O'Dea: Is not a good defender and his shockingly slow for a guy who is only 25 He should never be a starter for us.
Coleman: Lots of mistakes, but he did try in fairness. Got forward when he could and set up a nice chance for Keogh towards the end.
McGeady: The worst performance I have ever seen from him in an Irish shirt. He genuinely did not give a sh!t tonight. Needs dropping permanently, he has no interest in wearing the Irish jersey.
Fahey: Don't know what has happened to Fahey in the last year. He was shockingly slow on the ball and gave it away far too often.
Andrews: Doesn't have the engine to compete anymore, time to retire or take a backseat.
McCarthy: Did alright at the start of the match, but pretty much gave up after Germany got their third.
Cox: Ineffective on the wing, it's just bizarre he even started there again.
Walters: Worked his nuts off for no reward. I feel for the guy.

edgecutter

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A clueless manager that got us to two play-offs and our first tournament in ten years.

Tell us what you suggest should have happened instead. A lot of people on here are finding fault and not proffering alternatives. I'd love to hear how we should have played instead.

No one here doubts that we would have got beat. The problem we all have is the fact that play the same all the time. When the long ball doesn't work you stop using it!

You try and find a teams weakness (longs pace against Germans defence that lacks pace)

You don't keep playing players that play (or don't play at the highest level) when the other team has players playing at the biggest clubs.

Mr.Nice Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Ha ha ha thats brilliant way to counter my argument :rolleyes: Well i can say as bad as Dunphy style waffle is at this point in time id prefer it to Brady style waffle or Trap style waffle. Wake up from your coma we lost 6-1 tonight and the players are no longer playing for your hero. If Trap is going to these games as you say then what justifies Paul Green or Paul Mcshane's inclusion so?

I dont agree with witch hunts but to be honest his reign shouldnt have came to a witch hunt. He should have been released after the Euro's and the hammerings we got. Thierry Henry's handball vindicated him in alot of ways. Had France beaten us without any ambiguity that night he may have faced a bit of pressure afterwards.

Off topic i thought Tony Kroos was top class tonight the way he conducted himself after his goals

You're just repeating the stuff Dunphy is coming out with on RTE.

Where is the evidence the players have turned on him. O'Shea took the result on the chin and laid the blame at the players.

He chooses the players he does because he sees something in them obviously. I believe in judging people on results and while the loss tonight was a poor result, it is but one result. It is but three points lost. The group is very much alive and we all know he's leaving at the end of this campaign so why make him walk now? It would be silly.

FREETV

The problem is that the defence are almost always out of position, do not mark up, give the forwards too much space, they lack pace, cannot pass the ball accurately, cannot keep hold of the ball, they look as if they panic want to get rid of the ball most of the time without thinking of a good position to place it in. Time after time the players pass the buck, show little or no initiative, ruthlessness in midfield and particularily upfront.

They should all practise long range shots, long range passing in training with Trap and company and defenders should be run at and dribbled around by a line of at least six midfield or strikers to learn better co-ordination and tackling abilities. There is no Pele, Maradonna in that team or a George Best, that is for certain. The Germans ran rings around them and made a simple game look natural and simple like it should be against a simple team. Notice my use of the word simple numerous times. If a team cannot hold it together, have poor ball control and rarely get the basics correct then they can never progress, that is what it comes down to. Any team can be beaten with the correct frame of mind, dedication, commitment and never say die attitude, even Spain.

dsmythy

Germany's campaign so far:

Germany 3-0 Faroes Hmm could have done better

Austria 1-2 Germany They put up a fight them Austrians, good away win

Ireland 1-6 Germany Fruck yeahhh

Francie Barrett

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You're just repeating the stuff Dunphy is coming out with on RTE.

Where is the evidence the players have turned on him. O'Shea took the result on the chin and laid the blame at the players.

He chooses the players he does because he sees something in them obviously. I believe in judging people on results and while the loss tonight was a poor result, it is but one result. It is but three points lost. The group is very much alive and we all know he's leaving at the end of this campaign so why make him walk now? It would be silly.

This trolling isn't funny, give it up.

el dude

We're a complete and utter embarrassment, as much as an embarrassment as we were under Staunton and Kerr. So what we made it to a major finals, we were an embarrassment at them too.

Mr.Nice Guy

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Players never let him down before? How many mistakes has Ward made over the last campaign? Cox on the wing anyone? Lets not even mention the long ball tactic of giving possession straight back to the Germans.

So now O'Dea's mistake is the one catalyst for us getting trounced? Cope on. His tactics is all wrong. Gift Germany that amount of possession and sit in front of your back four!!!

The only embarrassment is that you are too stubborn to admit Trap is not performing in his role. Open your bloody eyes will you. Even Brady(his jail-bitch) is finding it hard to defend him anymore.

He is performing in his role. Two play-offs and a tournament qualification is a terrific achievement. If you think this is bad remind yourself of the Staunton era.

The loss tonight had nothing to do with tactics. If the players do things wrong how is that the managers fault?

edgecutter wrote:

No one here doubts that we would have got beat. The problem we all have is the fact that play the same all the time. When the long ball doesn't work you stop using it!

You try and find a teams weakness (longs pace against Germans defence that lacks pace)

You don't keep playing players that play (or don't play at the highest level) when the other team has players playing at the biggest clubs

So what, we were supposed to abandon the system we normally use and try to turn into a different team? Against Germany? Without our two best players?

Long would have made little difference on the result. The Germans dominated the park!

carlop

FREETV wrote: »

I have always supported any Irish team since I was a kid, however what I actually was getting at was not to get your hopes up, I cannot see us qualifying but maybe things could only get better rather than worse surely. I don't think any player coming on would have made a difference, there is very little skill, commitment, intelligence, pride and tactical awareness in both the team and the Management!

Apologies, I was probably a bit harsh but I was (and still am) fairly raging from watching that.

There are a lot of fairweather 'sports' fans though who will no doubt be moving on now to the next sport and will deride our football team, only to be firmly back in bandwagon-mode once we get any kind of decent result.

MD1990

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You're just repeating the stuff Dunphy is coming out with on RTE.

Where is the evidence the players have turned on him. O'Shea took the result on the chin and laid the blame at the players.

He chooses the players he does because he sees something in them obviously. I believe in judging people on results and while the loss tonight was a poor result, it is but one result. It is but three points lost. The group is very much alive and we all know he's leaving at the end of this campaign so why make him walk now? It would be silly.

McClean,Long,Foley are players we know who are not happy with Trapatoni
his treatment of Foley in particular was disgraceful

Renn

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't care how they play as long as they get results. We don't have the players to play like Germany and do well. The idea that Houlihan or whoever the latest flavour of the month is would have made that result any better is ludicrous.

Who said that we should be playing like Germany? We've really hit the bottom now as we're now looking to play like a team that can string a few passes together. Not like Germany/Spain/stupid comparison, but just like, you know, a decent footballing side.

What Trapatoni does with these guys is horrendous. He did it with the Italian national team twice and made a mess there as well.

applehunter

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't see what's fickle about supporting one of our greatest ever managers. It's loyalty and supporters should have more of it rather than only supporting when we get good results.

There are people busting their bollix training kids how to play soccer at underage level in this country including regional officers on below the average industrial wage that are teaching the game of football that is the antithesis of what this guy is serving up at senior level.

It's an insult to all their hard work.

It's indefensible.

There is a difference between loyalty and blind loyalty.

TheDoc

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't see what's fickle about supporting one of our greatest ever managers.

Good luck with the thread, I'm out

Not worth wasting my time hitting F5 to see the new replies.

All I'll say is, its easy to simply hold up a qualification. I dont count " near qualifications" thats just providing success with which was failure.

I'm pretty sure numerous managers, and numerous styles could have got us qualified as I mentioned after the Euros in that long winded thread.

The easiest thing to do in football is defend balls in the air. You do it every Sunday, you watch it every amatuer leagues, its easy. The hardest thing to do for a defender is turning and chasing, keeping tag on moving players and passing in and out of space.

We are literally the easiest team to defend against....and most probably the most ineffective.

Sure look, all will come full circle at some point, and I'm sure we can revisit the "one of the greatest" manager " claims, which at this point, is the most outragous and out of touch fanboy comment I've read about trap to date, and that Lloyd guy isnt even here yet.

Francie Barrett

MD1990 wrote: »

McClean,Long,Foley are players we know who are not happy with Trapatoni
his treatment of Foley in particular was disgraceful

Gibson, Wilson, the two Reid's, Harte, etc.

The list goes on and fcking on.

Mr.Nice Guy

applehunter wrote: »

There are people busting their bollix training kids how to play soccer at underage level in this country including regional officers on below the average industrial wage that are teaching the game of football that is the antithesis of what this guy is serving up at senior level.

It's an insult to all their hard work.

It's indefensible.

That is a different issue. Our coaching methods are in the stone age and that is a pre-Trap matter. Trap was not brought in to instil a new philosophy on the youth set-up but to get the seniors -products of the archaic system - to a finals. He has done this.

TheDoc wrote:

Good luck with the thread, I'm out

Not worth wasting my time hitting F5 to see the new replies.

All I'll say is, its easy to simply hold up a qualification. I dont count " near qualifications" thats just providing success with which was failure.

I'm pretty sure numerous managers, and numerous styles could have got us qualified as I mentioned after the Euros in that long winded thread.

The easiest thing to do in football is defend balls in the air. You do it every Sunday, you watch it every amatuer leagues, its easy. The hardest thing to do for a defender is turning and chasing, keeping tag on moving players and passing in and out of space.

We are literally the easiest team to defend against....and most probably the most ineffective.

Sure look, all will come full circle at some point, and I'm sure we can revisit the "one of the greatest" manager " claims, which at this point, is the most outragous and out of touch fanboy comment I've read about trap to date, and that Lloyd guy isnt even here yet.

I agree with a lot of your points on style of play but I don't blame Trap for bringing his philosophy to the senior set-up. We knew what we were getting when we hired him.

I will remain loyal to Trap as I'm grateful to him for turning the country's fortunes around. It wasn't that long ago we were ranked below Northern Ireland.

clubberlang12

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He is performing in his role. Two play-offs and a tournament qualification is a terrific achievement. If you think this is bad remind yourself of the Staunton era.

The loss tonight had nothing to do with tactics. If the players do things wrong how is that the managers fault?



So what, we were supposed to abandon the system we normally use and try to turn into a different team? Against Germany? Without our two best players?

Long would have made little difference on the result. The Germans dominated the park!

I prefer to think back to the McCarthy and Charlton era.

And as for the second bolded sentence. Do you actually understand how football is played? Gift a team possession and they will punish you! The loss had nothing to do with tactics? Are you actually Trap on his Ipad?

edgecutter

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He is performing in his role. Two play-offs and a tournament qualification is a terrific achievement. If you think this is bad remind yourself of the Staunton era.

The loss tonight had nothing to do with tactics. If the players do things wrong how is that the managers fault?



So what, we were supposed to abandon the system we normally use and try to turn into a different team? Against Germany? Without our two best players?

Long would have made little difference on the result. The Germans dominated the park!

True, no doubt the Germans were far better, but seriously mate if your willing to accept that then we may as well pay me to manage the team. I could easily serve up that rubbish on a small percentage of what trap gets.

The system is broke. We can't qualify with this system anymore. Teams know what we will serve every game and when you can't change your game, well your ****ed.

TheDoc

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That is a different issue. Our coaching methods are in the stone age and that is a pre-Trap matter. Trap was not brought in to instil a new philosophy on the youth set-up but to get the seniors -products of the archaic system - to a finals. He has done this.



I agree with a lot of your points on style of play but I don't blame Trap for bringing his philosophy to the senior set-up. We knew what we were getting when we hired him.

I will remain loyal to Trap as I'm grateful to him for turning the country's fortunes around. It wasn't that long ago we were ranked below Northern Ireland.

I might be giving you the blunt end of the stick in fairness, like at the end of the day everyone has their opinions and I applaud your support for the national team and their manager

But at the same time, you could "easily" use the same excuses being used now, for Staunton. He had a grossly inept squad, very little luck and tried to play some type of expansive possesion based football and paid the price for it.

The FAI put out a blanket call saying " $$$$ for success" intsead of taking a proper planned approach, to plan long term and produce competitive teams.

Wales and Scotland for example, who put in place developement plans some years ago, are starrting to reap the benefits, very, very slowly, but its evident in the way they play and attempt to play the game.

Ferris_Bueller

Initially I thought Trap didn't get it too wrong, for the first half hour we done okay and didn't look like we were in too much danger despite Germany having most of the ball, tactics seemed quite good to me, maybe would have swapped one or two players for players we had on the bench. After about the half hour mark though it seemed like Germany had us sussed out, Ozil seemed to drop deeper into midfield, taking Fahey with him, which left Reus space to come inside unmarked and Schmelzer pushed higher up on the left. I don't know whether this was instruction from Lowe or whether the German players were intelligent enough to do it themselves, but this got the Germans both goals before half time.

I expected Trap to react to this at half time, which he did. We came out for 5/10 mins playing okay in the second half but once O'Dea gave away the penalty the game was effectively over and any tactical battle that was on the cards was now over. It's embarrassing that we lost 6-1, and I would love for Trap to walk at this stage, but I still think the criticism is being slightly OTT. We were outclassed for the entire game, but that was surely to be expected. It was only for 45 minutes (or thereabouts) that I felt Trap got the tactics wrong or didn't react to the Germans, but they really punished us during that period. By the final whistle I was as disappointed/angry as the next person, but I'll hold my hands up and admit at half time I didn't think Trap had done too much wrong.

syngindub

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't care how they play as long as they get results. We don't have the players to play like Germany and do well. The idea that Houlihan or whoever the latest flavour of the month is would have made that result any better is ludicrous.

Sorry, but i'm not buying that excuse anymore. sick of this excuse being constantly used. We proved this argument wrong multiple occasions in the past and have always well held our own thank you very much. The thing we need and what lacked this evening was FIGHT. Players gave in too easy and just accepted what was given to them.

Mr. Guappa

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A clueless manager that got us to two play-offs and our first tournament in ten years.

Tell us what you suggest should have happened instead. A lot of people on here are finding fault and not proffering alternatives. I'd love to hear how we should have played instead.

The lack of exposure given to promising young players, coupled with the freezing out of numerous players in the last few years, has left us in a situation where the lack of viable alternatives was scary.

Trap has failed to gradually introduce the likes of Coleman, Wilson, etc. in favour of the pedestrian likes of Keogh and Green. He has also ignored the claims of Hoolahan and Pilkington, while freezing out the likes of Gibson and Foley. We are not that flush with talent that we can afford to ignore those players.

How could we have played instead tonight? Probably not a whole lot could have been done differently as regards selection tonight because of Traps failure over a number of years to introduce alternatives to his squad.

grenache

I find it very hard to understand why people are still supporting the dinosaur. It's actually hard to fathom.

We've been awful for a while now, the qualification for the Euros didn't disguise this continued use of negative tactics and puke football, while using some of the lesser talents available to us.

FREETV

edgecutter wrote: »

True, no doubt the Germans were far better, but seriously mate if your willing to accept that then we may as well pay me to manage the team. I could easily serve up that rubbish on a small percentage of what trap gets.

The system is broke. We can't qualify with this system anymore. Teams know what we will serve every game and when you can't change your game, well your ****ed.

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference what changes were made tactically, Irish squad cannot move the ball around accurately, lack confidence when on the ball and lack vision of what to do with the ball and where to place it, concentration isn't there, it is as if they were totally unfamiliar with one another as a team and they panic when challenged for the ball or when it is a players turn to strike on target, lack the confidence to make a real go of it. Bottling it is putting it mildly! They need to go back to basics again and restart from the very beginning, pathetic even though it may seem. :rolleyes:

TheStook

I've never left a game early before, never mind half an hour early. Absolutely shocking,

Didnt help that I was sitting beside 3 very drunk and enthusiastic Germans.

Anyone want a season ticket for 10 quid? Or free? Please take it off me

Mr.Nice Guy

Too many posts to reply to and quite obviously I'm in the extreme minority in backing Trap but what it comes down to for me is the following:

- He has achieved what I consider to be a great accomplishment so far in getting us to two play-offs and a finals.

- He has lifted us from the pit of despair post-Staunton to a team that now has fans upset when we lose to top ten sides.

- He is going to be leaving at the end of this campaign no matter what so I see a change in system and set-up as being too disruptive (which I think will turn this campaign into a write-off; a 'transitional phase')

- He is getting results with his teams and I don't see a massive improvement with someone else in. The style of play will improve but I'm not convinced the results will. I would fear us going the way of Scotland and Wales like we were a couple of years back.

Is the style of play ugly? Yes. Are we playing badly? Yes. But can we still get out of this group? I say yes.

On what I think WILL happen, frankly I don't see him seeing out this group campaign. The media agenda is well under way and I can see him either resigning or being pushed, which I believe would be a great pity.

The majority appear to have turned on him but I think we will be taking a major gamble - and I would say an unnecessary gamble - in calling for a change.

Nothing much else I can say on the matter except here's hoping for much better against the Fairies.

Renn

Wait, how the hell is changing the manager a gamble? Ireland have been playing like sh*t for about four years. Somehow managed to luck their way through to Euro 2012 (nothing at all impressive about any Irish performance throughout that campaign). Showed up at that tournament vs very good sides...but they were torn apart by weaker sides previously, only difference was the finishing. Style of play has been like this the whole time, not sure why people are just jumping on the bandwagon now.

So yeah, playing sh*t, no getting the results, nobody seems to have a clue what the hell he's doing...and moving him on would be a gamble? Ha.

Imhof Tank

Ive been watching this team since the '78 campaign and we have been hoofing the ball from the keeper and out of defence throughout all those years but tonight was a new low.

Giles was spot on re Trap - he latched on to the Andrews/ Whelan axis from day 1 and that set the tone and doomed us from that day on.

I had a chat with a portugese taxi driver, benfica supporter he was, in summer '08 - he predicted the way this Trap thing would go - get us competitive with painful dinosaur tactics. Back then i was happy with that after the Stan era, but now i want to puke.

By the end of this campaign -if we dont sack Trap and introduce a completely new way of thinking - we will be at a lower ebb than Wales/ NI, believe you me

Pride Fighter

Was very sad watching the game. The saddest thing is I was not surprised. What an inept display by the players, who are terribly coached by someone whose tactics do not belong in the modern game.

I do not blame the players. I blame the manager for picking in many cases the worst players for many positions and the sheer tactical inferiority we have over other teams.

Trap must go, and he must go now.

d22ontour

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Ive been watching this team since the '78 campaign and we have been hoofing the ball from the keeper and out of defence throughout all those years but tonight was a new low.

McCarthy didn't employ those tactics nor did Kerr, i think we all agree that Stan was something edited on wiki but yeah our style of play has mainly been deplorable..

v3ttel

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

The lack of exposure given to promising young players, coupled with the freezing out of numerous players in the last few years, has left us in a situation where the lack of viable alternatives was scary.

Trap has failed to gradually introduce the likes of Coleman, Wilson, etc. in favour of the pedestrian likes of Keogh and Green. He has also ignored the claims of Hoolahan and Pilkington, while freezing out the likes of Gibson and Foley. We are not that flush with talent that we can afford to ignore those players.

How could we have played instead tonight? Probably not a whole lot could have been done differently as regards selection tonight because of Traps failure over a number of years to introduce alternatives to his squad.

Good points.

Our best young players like Coleman, McCarthy, Wilson, Clark, Brady, Long (all 25 or under), have very, very little experience at international level.

Clark > O'Dea, who is playing for a dire Toronto side.

Wilson > Ward - who is incredibly poor.

McShane & Green being in the squad on a regular basis is a joke.

Whelan being a starter regularly when we have better options (McCarthy, Gibson).

The "hoof the ball up to the big lad up front and hope something sticks" is rubbish.

The "we don't have the players" argument is absolute moronic. We don't have the players to go to Kazakhstan and win convincingly, or at least not look p!ss poor? We don't have the players to do better against Germany than the Faroes? GTFO.

Everything that's wrong is finally catching up with him. His luck has run out.

And yes, he qualified for a major championships, largely due to the fact that we drew the only possible team we were capable of beating.

kincsem

I'll sum up the thread so far.
"Trapattoni should tell the team to play like Brazil." :rolleyes:

NIMAN

As much as we can question the players passion and commitment, or the managers tactics, sometimes football simply comes down to ability.

Ireland is full of very average players, whereas the teams that have been playing us off the park recently, like Germany, Spain, Italy, have very good, technical players.

You don't see the likes of these teams lumping the ball up front to the big man as their main tactic. Thats 1970s football, it has moved on now and its a more technical game. Problem is, Irish and British players are still trying to play outdated football in a modern era, and it don't work. Hence we will continue to go backwards (and England will continue to win nothing).

Imhof Tank

d22ontour wrote: »

McCarthy didn't employ those tactics nor did Kerr, i think we all agree that Stan was something edited on wiki but yeah our style of play has mainly been deplorable..

It doesnt just come form the international manager - its the whole "british" approach to the game.

Stan himself was a great hoofer with that sweet left peg of his.

Mick dabbled with 3 at the back and wingbacks for a while but at the end of the day Jack rewarded him for being a hoofer which is what he was as a player, so what else would you expect from him as a manager....................

applehunter

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Too many posts to reply to and quite obviously I'm in the extreme minority in backing Trap but what it comes down to for me is the following:

- He has achieved what I consider to be a great accomplishment so far in getting us to two play-offs and a finals.

It doesn't tell the full story.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

- He has lifted us from the pit of despair post-Staunton to a team that now has fans upset when we lose to top ten sides.

Out of the fire into the pan.

Replace lose with "get hammered".

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

- He is going to be leaving at the end of this campaign no matter what so I see a change in system and set-up as being too disruptive (which I think will turn this campaign into a write-off; a 'transitional phase')

Change in system/philosophy doesn't mean losing although I can see your point. Again can we afford to let the malaise continue?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

- He is getting results with his teams and I don't see a massive improvement with someone else in. The style of play will improve but I'm not convinced the results will. I would fear us going the way of Scotland and Wales like we were a couple of years back.

I'm an optimist. Things can get better.:)

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Is the style of play ugly? Yes. Are we playing badly? Yes. But can we still get out of this group? I say yes.

True, 2nd is still up for grabs. Goal difference took a bashing but its still early days.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

On what I think WILL happen, frankly I don't see him seeing out this group campaign. The media agenda is well under way and I can see him either resigning or being pushed, which I believe would be a great pity.

I pray he resigns.

Time is inexorable. Players like Coleman & Long will be 30 by the time we reach the World Cup Finals in 2018. That's the pity.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The majority appear to have turned on him but I think we will be taking a major gamble - and I would say an unnecessary gamble - in calling for a change.

Maybe but what is the point in qualifying for Brazil if we aren't going to compete.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nothing much else I can say on the matter except here's hoping for much better against the Fairies.

I fear....

flyswatter

kincsem wrote: »

I'll sum up the thread so far.
"Trapattoni should tell the team to play like Brazil." :rolleyes:

No, try again.

kincsem

flyswatter wrote: »

No, try again.

Spain?

willmunny1990

kincsem wrote: »

I'll sum up the thread so far.
"Trapattoni should tell the team to play like Brazil." :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone is asking that of him.

But for the obscene amount of money the man is on he should be expected to pick his best players, go to matches and not consistently fall out with some of the better players we have.

RayCon

what odds on the Faroes getting a result ?

Imhof Tank

NIMAN wrote: »

You don't see the likes of these teams lumping the ball up front to the big man as their main tactic. Thats 1970s football, it has moved on now and its a more technical game. Problem is, Irish and British players are still trying to play outdated football in a modern eraQUOTE]

Yes but why?

Is it an intelligence thing?

Imhof Tank

RayCon wrote: »

what odds on the Faroes getting a result ?

If I was a betting man, and i am, I would say something like:-

Faroes 4/5
Draw5/4
Us 7/4

Essien

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Too many posts to reply to and quite obviously I'm in the extreme minority in backing Trap but what it comes down to for me is the following:

- He has achieved what I consider to be a great accomplishment so far in getting us to two play-offs and a finals.

The Irish players got there in spite of him. Look at Russia away for example, we avoided defeat but it had nothing to to with Traps tactics. Some superhuman performances got us over the line and the same applies to a lesser extent on other occasions.

- He has lifted us from the pit of despair post-Staunton to a team that now has fans upset when we lose to top ten sides.

This is ridiculous. I'd take defeat to sides like Germany, Spain or Italy any day of the week - just not in the hapless manner they've come about under Trap. The most common misconception of the anti Trap argument is that we somehow expect to be world beaters if only we'd picked the right players or played the right system. This is far from the truth, we simply expect to put our best foot forward when approaching games, something Trap has rarely if ever allowed us to do.

- He is going to be leaving at the end of this campaign no matter what so I see a change in system and set-up as being too disruptive (which I think will turn this campaign into a write-off; a 'transitional phase')

I actually agree with this, at this stage I don't even see the point in sacking him. The potential improvement under another manager would be negligible, for me, this is outweighed by the costs (not just financial) of getting rid of him right now.

- He is getting results with his teams and I don't see a massive improvement with someone else in. The style of play will improve but I'm not convinced the results will. I would fear us going the way of Scotland and Wales like we were a couple of years back.

As above. Any results we get are in spite of him. I've also made my point about getting rid of him.

Is the style of play ugly? Yes. Are we playing badly? Yes. But can we still get out of this group? I say yes.

This is a strange one for me - and I felt the same before the Euros - I'm not even that excited about getting out of the group under Trap, we know we can't have any expectations once we make it to a finals because we simply won't make any effort to play ball. We'll just roll over and take our beating without a whimper as soon as we face some competition. I know we're not going to win it under anyone, but our approach under Trap is depressing, and I'm not jst talking about 'style'.

On what I think WILL happen, frankly I don't see him seeing out this group campaign. The media agenda is well under way and I can see him either resigning or being pushed, which I believe would be a great pity.

See above

The majority appear to have turned on him but I think we will be taking a major gamble - and I would say an unnecessary gamble - in calling for a change.

See above

Nothing much else I can say on the matter except here's hoping for much better against the Fairies.

Agreed, please god.

.

grenache

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He has achieved what I consider to be a great accomplishment so far in getting us to two play-offs and a finals.

We got to playoffs under Hand, Charlton and McCarthy.

Please don't try to convince us that getting to Poland was anything other than luck. We beat neither of our main rivals - Russia and Slovakia - over four games. We were largely out-played at home by Russia, Slovakia and mighty Azerbaijan. If it were not for Slovakia somehow imploding, we would have finished third. We then drew the weakest team to ever qualify for a playoff in Estonia. Had Kerr been blessed with that amount of luck, he would have taken us to Portugal and Germany too!!

- He has lifted us from the pit of despair post-Staunton to a team that now has fans upset when we lose to top ten sides.

We were at rock bottom under Staunton. There was no other direction to go only up!

-He is getting results with his teams and I don't see a massive improvement with someone else in. The style of play will improve but I'm not convinced the results will. I would fear us going the way of Scotland and Wales like we were a couple of years back.

He is getting results???!!!!! What results are these that you speak of? What team of note have we actually beaten since Trap took over? The answer would be nobody. Our record against the decent sides in competitive games is very bad. And we've seen more losses than victories in the friendly games.

But can we still get out of this group? I say yes.

I don't know what you're smoking, but I'd like some of it

-The majority appear to have turned on him but I think we will be taking a major gamble - and I would say an unnecessary gamble - in calling for a change.

-
Taking a gamble on finding a manager who actually has a clue what he is doing and doesn't alienate a dozen players while turning off fans in their droves?? I'd rather take that "gamble" instead of continuing to be outplayed and out-thought by almost every opposition we face.

-Nothing much else I can say on the matter except here's hoping for much better against the Fairies.

-
I wouldn't hold my breath. The players have zero confidence in Trap's management. He's been well and truly found out.

flyswatter

Imhof Tank wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

You don't see the likes of these teams lumping the ball up front to the big man as their main tactic. Thats 1970s football, it has moved on now and its a more technical game. Problem is, Irish and British players are still trying to play outdated football in a modern eraQUOTE]

Yes but why?

Is it an intelligence thing?

Irish grassroots is focused on strength. Wrong way. European youth coaching: Skill, technical ability. Right way.

Imhof Tank

flyswatter wrote: »

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Irish grassroots is focused on strength. Wrong way. European youth coaching: Skill, technical ability. Right way.

Mmm, brains to burn the grassroots have

Frank Black

Just back from the match.
Pretty horrific all round.
Disappointed at the reception for McGeady when he was subbed. Fair enough he was poor, but the reason he seems to get such stick is because he tries to make stuff happen -albeit without much success this evening. The 3 guys in the middle gave the German so much time and space it was ridiculous. They were way more at fault for the 6 goal mauling than McGeady, but he's a handy target for the crowds frustration.

gandalf

kincsem wrote: »

I'll sum up the thread so far.
"Trapattoni should tell the team to play like Brazil." :rolleyes:

No I'll sum up the thread for you and the others who seem to be wearing very narrow blinkers.

This manager plays players out of their normal positions when better players are available who play week in week out in those positions.

He has public feuds with young players who should be playing for this country.

He consistently picks players who are not capable of playing at international level when there are others available who are better.

His tactics are from the stone age. If you are going to have long ball tactics you have to have midfield players following up to pick up the pieces. The team needs to pressure as a unit instead of sitting back and asking the opposition to come onto you. With the mediocre teams you may get away with it but you are giving them an opportunity to get a result against us. With teams like Germany you are inviting them to tear us to pieces like they did tonight.

I am under no illusions here. Even with our best team we are a gulf away from the German team we played tonight. To get a result against them we would have needed them to have an off day and for Ireland to play well beyond themselves. However I do expect an Irish team to play with passion and as a unit. This did not happen tonight and it has been missing for quite a while with this Trapatoni team.

For €1.4 million I expect a manager to play the best team available, I expect them to scout the available talent extensively, I expect them to have the team playing as a cohesive unit and I expect them to ensure the team play with the passion that previous Irish teams played with. Trapatoni has failed this on all counts and at this stage he has to go.

I don't believe we will get close to making it to Brazil 2014. I do believe if we get a progressive manager in who can rebuild some semblance of belief into the team we can minimize the damage and build a team that can qualify for Euro 2016. Trapatoni needs to be fired, so does John Delaney. If I was Denis O'Brien I would withdraw the funding from this farce now.

Imhof Tank

black francis wrote: »

Just back from the match.
Pretty horrific all round.
Disappointed at the reception for McGeady when he was subbed. Fair enough he was poor, but the reason he seems to get such stick is because he tries to make stuff happen -albeit without much success this evening. The 3 guys in the middle gave the German so much time and space it was ridiculous. They were way more at fault for the 6 goal mauling than McGeady, but he's a handy target for the crowds frustration.

Wrong.

He gets stick for becoming completely disorientated in his attempts to cover in defence as in the case of the first goal tonight. Himself and Coleman were like slow moving statues for that one.

NIMAN

Imhof Tank wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

You don't see the likes of these teams lumping the ball up front to the big man as their main tactic. Thats 1970s football, it has moved on now and its a more technical game. Problem is, Irish and British players are still trying to play outdated football in a modern eraQUOTE]

Yes but why?

Is it an intelligence thing?

Maybe, but more on the part of the coaches.

I would love to see Irish children stop playing on full size pitches with full size nets when they are Under8 or Under11, it doesn't make sense.

Countries that play proper football play small games with small nets that put the emphasis on nurturing skill, touch, thought, passing etc.

Irish and British coaches still pick players based on physicality and stamina at all levels. This is nonsense.

I think the FAI should start a new plan now and to hell with the way the Brits play the game. Go more continental. Ban playing on full size pitches. Get rid of the old guard of coaches. Embrace the modern systems. Go and watch how the Spanish and Italians and Germans and Dutch do it.

If it takes 20yrs to see the results, so be it. Cos at the minute we have no future playing this way.

GetInTheHole!

MD1990 wrote: »

McClean,Long,Foley are players we know who are not happy with Trapatoni
his treatment of Foley in particular was disgraceful

You can add Darron Gibson to that list aswell.

(and possibly Seamus Coleman and James McCarty)

Imhof Tank

gandalf wrote: »

His tactics are from the stone age. If you are going to have long ball tactics you have to have midfield players following up to pick up the pieces. The team needs to pressure as a unit instead of sitting back and asking the opposition to come onto you. With the mediocre teams you may get away with it but you are giving them an opportunity to get a result against us. With teams like Germany you are inviting them to tear us to pieces like they did tonight.

.

It is even a tactic? I dont think our midfield even show for passes out of defence?

Tonight you saw Shwieny and Kedera, in the first half especially, constantly available for the short pass from their central defenders.