Republic of Ireland v Germany - 12/10/2012 - 19:45 - RTE2/SS2

simongurnick

Corholio wrote: »

If you dont think getting international experience makes players play better than fair enough, but they would be better players at international level by now if they had been brought in.

Well yes, you would assume so, but it's not gauranteed.
Stephen Ward has had plenty international experience, he isn't any better.
Liam Miller was a massive prospect at one point, he didn't get better with more international football, he got worse.
It's not gauranteed at all they would become better.

Dearg81

AgileMyth wrote: »

It'd be brilliant if we lost to the Faroes. We haven't a hope of achieving anything anyway so might as well give someone something to celebrate.

That's a pathetic attitude to have, you either support your country or you dont.

Blatter

I'm actually stunned that some people are confident about us beating the Faroe Islands. They were narrowly defeated by Sweden, only lost 3-0 away to Germany and Italy only managed to beat them 0-1 in the Euro qualifiers last year.

And us, Ireland, have several injuries/players recently retired, have a lack of team spirit, have been making outrageous mistakes in our last several matches and have a manager that very few people have faith in anymore.

Dearg81

Blatter wrote: »

I'm actually stunned that some people are confident about us beating the Faroe Islands. They were narrowly defeated by Sweden, only lost 3-0 away to Germany and Italy only managed to beat them 0-1 in the Euro qualifiers last year.

And us, Ireland, have several injuries/players recently retired, have a lack of team spirit, have been making outrageous mistakes in our last several matches and have a manager that very few people have faith in anymore.

I think you're being a drama queen by using the word stunned. Ireland will be odds on to win that match.

Blatter

Dearg81 wrote: »

I think you're being a drama queen by using the word stunned. Ireland will be odds on to win that match.

I know Ireland will be odds on, and I also know that the public's perception of how the match will play out shapes the bookies odds.

To be at such a short price, you'd really be expecting us to be beating them comfortably. Can you see us beating them comfortably?

Dearg81

Blatter wrote: »

I know Ireland will be odds on, and I also know that the public's perception of how the match will play out shapes the bookies odds.

To be at such a short price, you'd really be expecting us to be beating them comfortably. Can you see us beating them comfortably?

No but I think we'll win and I find it hard to believe that you will be stunned to see us win either. You're exaggerating your point.

Blatter

Dearg81 wrote: »

No but I think we'll win and I find it hard to believe that you will be stunned to see us win either. You're exaggerating your point.

I never said I'd be stunned to see us win, I said I'm stunned that many are confident that we will win. I'd still have us as favorites, maybe 4/6 or 8/11 but nowhere near the bookies current odds.

Dearg81

Blatter wrote: »

I know Ireland will be odds on, and I also know that the public's perception of how the match will play out shapes the bookies odds.

To be at such a short price, you'd really be expecting us to be beating them comfortably. Can you see us beating them comfortably?

Blatter wrote: »

I never said I'd be stunned to see us win, I said I'm stunned that many are confident that we will win. I'd still have us as favorites, maybe 4/6 or 8/11 but nowhere near the bookies current odds.

Fair enough, I didn't meet many fans tonight predicting a win on tuesday night either.

Mr. Loverman

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Okay let's put this into perspective. The first one was against one of the greatest football teams of all time Spain - who went on to beat Italy in the final by the same score they beat us - and the second one was against a German side that, according to Didi Hamann, is the best German team in twenty years.

Are you seriously trying to assert that between 1971 to 2012 we didn't play any top teams?

T-K-O

There is no doubt Jack ignored / retired some quality players the difference being he had other quality players to bring in.

token101

population wrote: »

If anybody here can find the time to stick up the panel reaction to this abomonation on youtube after it would be much appreciated by those of us in foreign parts. The only comfort I gain from nights like this is watching Dunphy throw pencils in rage

A brief snippet of the aftermath:

Optimalprimerib

Father Damo wrote: »

ColeTrain wrote: »

Did anyone else find it bizarre how a good section of the crowd celebrated Keogh's goal

Punters who bet on a 6-1 i reckon :pac: Scoring after that rubbish deserves mild applause at best, there were people dancing ffs!

At that stage anyone left were probably there enjoying the comedy of it all. I was at work for most of the game but when I came in and saw the score (at 5-0 at the time) my roommate had to rush down from his room to see what I was laughing at so much. I watched and enjoyed every bit of the game I saw and would sit and watch it again. Do you know why? Because this clown deserves every bit of humiliation thrown at him as possible.

Ireland were victim of some horror defeats ( Russia in 2002) but they came from nowhere. Tonight should have happened a long time ago and we are steeped that it is at the hands of the 2nd best team in the world, because on their day any of the top 20 could do this to us.

Xavi6

population wrote: »

If anybody here can find the time to stick up the panel reaction to this abomonation on youtube after it would be much appreciated by those of us in foreign parts. The only comfort I gain from nights like this is watching Dunphy throw pencils in rage

There's half an hour of post match analysis on the RTE player now that anyone can watch.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road. We haven't been beaten by two clear goals in a home qualifier since 1995.

Those predicting a hammering are crazy. We don't get hammered in these scenarios. We absolutely have a chance imo.

Bump.

twinytwo

Its easy to just blame trap for tonight, but the players are just not skillfull enough for international... as it was said germany had 7 champions league players in their team.. we had 4 championship players.

Ireland just dont know what to do when they have the ball, they cant move together, they dont have the pass or touch to counter attack at pace and their defending is abysmal. All night the likes of ozil and muller were left open to do as they pleased.

Westwood is also a very poor second to given, the way he got beaten by the last goal sums up his actual abilites.

GetInTheHole!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Okay let's put this into perspective. The first one was against one of the greatest football teams of all time Spain - who went on to beat Italy in the final by the same score they beat us - and the second one was against a German side that, according to Didi Hamann, is the best German team in twenty years.

That's why we blotted that run twice. I don't see why that should undo all the achievements accomplished before that. Ending a ten year tournament drought being the notable one.

Hello Liam..

sandt

kincsem wrote: »

I wouldn't be certain we would beat them, but if I got those odds I would put a sizeable bet on Ireland.
Fwiw I am up €18k this week (and I can prove it if needed.)

Well after saying that you obviously got to show us the proof......

cournioni

I don't say this often but Ireland's best performer last night was Eamon Dunphy. I thought everything he said was spot on.

Disgusted by that performance and result and it had been coming for a long, long time now with the tactics that Trappatoni uses. Russia should have beaten us by at least 6 in Moscow, Spain did it to us, Croatia ran rings around us, Italy glided past us easily. It has been said before that Trappatoni has been a lucky manager, even against some of the most average to poor teams in the world we have been lucky. That luck has run out and I think that Trappatoni's tactics have been found out for what they are.

In my opinion, this Ireland team can hold onto the ball and press opposition players at the very least. Under Trappatoni we stand like statues on the edge of the six yard box hoping that the opposition wont get through, we hoof long balls up to Walters and not get any players up to support him out of the fear that Trappatoni will either give them a bollocking or they will not get picked next time. Darron Gibson has seen this and probably doesnt want any part in it and who could blame him??

Finally, Trappatoni's treatment of Ireland's younger players has been noting short of deplorable. For this alone, he should never manage the Irish team ever again.

To Alcohol

Fingers crossed Blackburn take the plunge and take Trapp. Its unlikely so unfortunately sacking him is going to cost big bucks.

That team and set up is a shambles at this stage.

ThunbergsAreGo

The players need some blame as well, it doesnt take a world class manager to apply yourself

cournioni

naughtb4 wrote: »

The players need some blame as well, it doesnt take a world class manager to apply yourself

It probably doesn't, but when your manager has you playing with fear like Trappatoni has done for the past few years, there is only so much you can do. We started playing football in the 90th minute and that was probably down the players applying themselves.

mark renton

I dont think any manager could have done anything last night with the available players... Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard, and they were up against a team that would beat spain on their day... Gap in class is huge and wont shorten anytime soon

Boskowski

Erm... Deutschland vor, noch ein Tor! Anyone?

Lamper.sffc

john47832 wrote: »

I dont think any manager could have done anything last night with the available players... Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard, and they were up against a team that would beat spain on their day... Gap in class is huge and wont shorten anytime soon

When Ireland have played any of the big nations over the years the gap in class is generally big. But we used to at least compete to the best of our ability.

Last night was not just down to the gap in quality.

mark renton

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

john47832 wrote: »

I dont think any manager could have done anything last night with the available players... Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard, and they were up against a team that would beat spain on their day... Gap in class is huge and wont shorten anytime soon

When Ireland have played any of the big nations over the years the gap in class is generally big. But we used to at least compete to the best of our ability.

Last night was not just down to the gap in quality.

When ireland previously played any of the big sides we had the likes of Duff, Dunne, Keane or other quality players over the years - If you dont have the players you cant compete... Dont get me wrong im not making excuses for trap, we dont have the players because he hasnt sourced them or hasnt nurtured the promising ones

But that 6-1 was coming, a lot of Irish people made good money last night backing germany minus a goal or two

LeBash

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Players never let him down before? How many mistakes has Ward made over the last campaign? Cox on the wing anyone? Lets not even mention the long ball tactic of giving possession straight back to the Germans.

So now O'Dea's mistake is the one catalyst for us getting trounced? Cope on. His tactics is all wrong. Gift Germany that amount of possession and sit in front of your back four!!!

The only embarrassment is that you are too stubborn to admit Trap is not performing in his role. Open your bloody eyes will you. Even Brady(his jail-bitch) is finding it hard to defend him anymore.

He is performing in his role. Two play-offs and a tournament qualification is a terrific achievement. If you think this is bad remind yourself of the Staunton era.

The loss tonight had nothing to do with tactics. If the players do things wrong how is that the managers fault?

edgecutter wrote:

No one here doubts that we would have got beat. The problem we all have is the fact that play the same all the time. When the long ball doesn't work you stop using it!

You try and find a teams weakness (longs pace against Germans defence that lacks pace)

You don't keep playing players that play (or don't play at the highest level) when the other team has players playing at the biggest clubs

So what, we were supposed to abandon the system we normally use and try to turn into a different team? Against Germany? Without our two best players?

Long would have made little difference on the result. The Germans dominated the park!

Yes. We have played 4 top quality nations and been hockied by them all. I'd say we could add up all the possession from the 4 game and we wouldn't have had the ball for 30 mins.

The tactics have been figured out so we can change them or the manager. Conceding 6 s atrocious, San Marino only let 5 in last night.

Sweden will look at the video of this match and wonder if they should play 3 5 2 because all they have to do is put a little pressure on our back 9 and they hoof it.

ronsgonawin

john47832 wrote: »

I dont think any manager could have done anything last night with the available players... Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard, and they were up against a team that would beat spain on their day... Gap in class is huge and wont shorten anytime soon

Sligo rovers would have done better, without trap in charge of course

ronsgonawin

Are you on crack? During the Staunton era we never made it to two play-offs or a finals. We did get a thumping away to Cyprus which I THINK is a tad worse.

Research what Trap has achieved in the game, lad. Here's a clue: it's more than being a condescending armchair smart-alec.

I listened to Gab Marcotti make the case for Trap staying and I'd respect his opinion more than a fickle 'supporter' like you.[/Quote]


Think YOU need to get a clue, because you clearly have none.

Maybe sit down and watch ALL of the matches over the past couple of years and not just look at results. If you did, you would see we were extremely lucky in alot of those games and that luck would run out eventually, and the performances and results since the start of the Euros was always going to happen.

noodler

twinytwo wrote: »

Westwood is also a very poor second to given, the way he got beaten by the last goal sums up his actual abilites.

And no disrespect to Westwood, but there were people on here begging for Given to retire after the Euros.

Hard to believe, eh?

clubberlang12

This f^&king argument of not having the players is wearing extremely thin at this stage and is becoming the straw from which all Trap followers are desperately clinging.

German Euro 2012 Qualification :
- Austria (6-2, 2-1)
- Azerbaijan (3-1, 6-1)
- Belgium (1-0, 3-1)
- Kazakshtan (3-0, 4-0)
- Turkey (3-0, 4-0)

Spain Euro 2012 Qualification:
- Liechtenstein (6-0, 4-0)
- Lithuania (3-1, 3-1)
- Scotland (3-2, 3-1)
- Czech Republic (2-1, 2-0)

Italy Euro 2012 Qualification
- Estonia (2-1, 3-0)
- Faroe Islands (5-0, 1-0)
- Serbia (3-0, 1-1)
- Northern Ireland (0-0, 3-0)
- Slovenia (1-0, 1-0)

Our performances and results against the aforementioned teams rank us beside the likes of Azerbaijan, Kazakshtan, Lithuania, Leichtenstein, Lithuania, etc. Now don't try telling me that we haven't better players than those nations. Quit the nonsensical drivel that you are trying to frantically hold onto. Our last half dozen performances have been disgraceful, and it is largely down to tactics. How are the minnows of European football able to perform better than us against these nations? Previous Irish teams have never gifted the opposition the time and space this set up has. It is quite simply destroying us.

Trap's tactics are killing us and there are still some that want to defend him! Clinging to the fact we were extremely lucky to qualify for the Euro's! It is never Trap's fault. When knocked out of the 2002 WC he claimed it was a fix to have the home nation, South Korea, go through. In the 2004 Euro's it was again a fix when a draw between Denmark and Sweden saw them go through. Wasn't his fault at this years Euro's............it was the players, they "froze"! Certainly had nothing to do with his own tactics and selections that say us perform so miserably.

We don't have the players? Sure we don't have the players to be world beaters. No one has every proclaimed we had! Are short on options because of his fall-outs and non-selection of players? Of course we are. Had he not decided to play Green and not give Gibson any game time, Gibson would still be a squad member and should be a first teamer. Had he selected Hoolahan before in previous squads he would have midfielder who can easily operate in a wide position. Instead we make do with Cox and Keogh. Coleman should have been a starter well before now. Wilson is a better defensive option at full back than Ward.

The man can't motivate his players anymore. This is a fundamental part of any mangers role. Or has he ever really being able to? The Irish team has never lack a fight before. Trap is destroying the soul that previous teams were built on.

Edit: Sorry Lamper, had accidently used the quote button instead of the reply button and your post was quoted.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

And no disrespect to Westwood, but there were people on here begging for Given to retire after the Euros.

Hard to believe, eh?

Not that hard really. By the end Given was practically chalking up assists for the opposition and seemed more afraid of crosses than Dracula. It was right for him to step down. The fact that he's been dropped by Aston Villa now is just another mark on his fairly shocking decline.

Westwood isn't ever going to win a Golden Gloves award and will probably never match Given at his peak, but he's the right man for the job now and was the least of our troubles last night.

SantryRed

And finally, the luck ran out.

Absolutely suicidal tactics once again by Trappatoni. I could completely understand playing like that away from home, but not at home. It's been happening since he took over, we look good for the first 10 minutes and then we drop so far deep, that the back line is stepping on Westwood's toes, this in turn means we have absolutely no get out because we are so so deep. We don't have a plan, we don't have a system, he picks a team, names a formation, and that is it.

It has become a joke at this stage, 4-5-1/4-3-3 was always the way to go against the Germans but Jesus Christ, why not press them even a little? Why let the two full backs get on the ball with no tackle and threat from the wingers? Cox on the wing was once again showed up as the joke it was last night, we've no out with him because he doesn't have much pace, he is a fantastic footballer on the ball, but it isn't what we need in this team, he has no use and is a waste of a player, I don't think he actually knows how to play left wing either.

I really fear for Tuesday night, it's going to be awful once again, people shouldn't let results get in the way of performances. He have never performed under Trappatoni, we've been consistently lucky in the group draws, and in getting some results, and like I said, it ran out last night.

Trampas

Is Dalymount or Tolka free the days of the faroe islands or kaza?

they might just fill them stadiums.

whatever about getting rid of trap there is very little chance of delaney going as he got rid of all the people who aren't his yes men in the fai. fai is like a communist country

kitakyushu

Trampas wrote: »

Is Dalymount or Tolka free the days of the faroe islands or kaza?

they might just fill them stadiums.

For all our bitching and moaning about not qualifying for things and missing play-offs etc, 1985 was the last time Ireland were mathematically out of the running for qualification by the final home game. On that day European Championship semi-finalists Denmark came to Lansdowne to play in front of a crowd of 12,000. However was back in the days before block-booking etc. Whilst I never see it dropping that low again I can genuinely see a future where Ireland are not in the running and playing competitive games in a half-full Lansdowne Road.

Bandwagon United love a winning team. Failing that they like to see a bit of spirit and a bit of nice play. Offer none and they'll vote with their feet.

Mr. Loverman

kitakyushu wrote: »

By the end Given ... seemed more afraid of crosses than Dracula

Haha classic.

flyswatter

Trampas wrote: »

Is Dalymount or Tolka free the days of the faroe islands or kaza?

they might just fill them stadiums.

whatever about getting rid of trap there is very little chance of delaney going as he got rid of all the people who aren't his yes men in the fai. fai is like a communist country

I've started thinking about the FAI recently. How does it work? I seriously don't like the sound of jobs for the boys system where Delaney is guaranteed his position.

Are there elections for it?

Rhys Essien

My team for Tuesday night and the team that should have played last night.

Westwood

Colman O'Shea Clark Wilson

Brady McCarthy Meyler McGeady

Walters Long


I dont think O'Dea or Ward should wear the green again.Wilson must have been boiling looking at them on the bench.Also Whelan and Andrews add nothing to the team and should be subs at best from now on.

The above team,all top level players playing regularly(bar Brady and Meyler)who have proven that they can actually play.

RikkFlair

kitakyushu wrote: »

For all our bitching and moaning about not qualifying for things and missing play-offs etc, 1985 was the last time Ireland were mathematically out of the running for qualification by the final home game.

What about 2007? Couldn't qualify with still 3 games to go (Germany H, Cyprus H, Wales A)

Nalz

Rhys Essien wrote: »

.Also Whelan and Andrews add nothing to the team and should be subs at best from now on.

Andrews was our best player in the Euros and decent throughout the qualifiers.

Predalien

We definitely have to get a look at Meyler, the 3 midfielders were very poor at providing cover. I'd like to try Coleman on the right of midfield and perhaps replace McGeady with Brady. One thing I won't blame on the manager is the performances of John O'Shea, he's been far too poor for far too long in an Irish shirt. It's also been obvious for a long time Ward shouldn't start, handy in the squad as he's versatile but no more than that.

kitakyushu

RikkFlair wrote: »

What about 2007? Couldn't qualify with still 3 games to go (Germany H, Cyprus H, Wales A)

The last home game was Cyprus. Immediately prior to kick off the table was

team /played/points
Germany 9 23
Czech Republic 9 20
Republic of Ireland 10 15
Slovakia 10 13
Cyprus 9 13
Wales 9 10
San Marino 10 0

Not much of a chance, but the theory was Ireland win two, Czech lose three and then we could still barely get 2nd place 21pts vs 20pts.

Czech had Germany away that night so it looked fairly good that the bandwagon would at least roll on til the next set of fixtures. However, coupled with us flopping again vs Cyprus, Czech managed to win 3-0 in Germany and that was that.

Mr. Guappa

john47832 wrote: »

I dont think any manager could have done anything last night with the available players... Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard, and they were up against a team that would beat spain on their day... Gap in class is huge and wont shorten anytime soon

This is a damning indictment of Traps period in charge. The likes of Coleman, Wilson, McCarthy, Gibson and countless others should be well integrated into the squad set-up and first XI by now. Trap persevered with the pedestrian likes of McShane, Green, Keogh and Cox when he should have been gradually introducing fresh, talented faces to the set-up. His refusal to give more exposure to our young talent came back to bite him in the ass last night.

djpbarry

john47832 wrote: »

Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard...

If that Irish team were a step above LOI standard, they'd be playing far better football.

Have a look at the Sligo/Pats match this afternoon - either of those sides would pass Ireland off the park.

Nalz

Apart from the RTE player, anyone know where I would get Dunphy and co's views on the game?

fryup

fryup wrote: »

i can see ireland getting slaughtered tommorow night i really do, esp with that depleted makeshift line-up

told you so,

just regret not putting a bet on it:(

Predalien

john47832 wrote: »

I dont think any manager could have done anything last night with the available players... Most of those players are just one step above irish league standard, and they were up against a team that would beat spain on their day... Gap in class is huge and wont shorten anytime soon

He could have fielded a back four of Coleman, O'Shea, Clark and Wilson. All decent Premier League players, two of whom have been nominated for PFA young player of the year in the past. If we are going to let teams have the ball we need better defenders. That means not selecting O'Dea or Ward, it's not rocket science.

G.K.

To be fair to Cox, he's never done badly when played up top. I forget which game of the Euros it was he started but I thought he was Ireland's best player then.

Blatter

G.K. wrote: »

To be fair to Cox, he's never done badly when played up top. I forget which game of the Euros it was he started but I thought he was Ireland's best player then.

I think the only game he started in the Euros was against Spain, and had no impact. But to be fair, he was asked to just run around in midfield and track Alonso that day.

I think the game you're thinking of was Armenia at home, he was very good that day.

G.K.

Could well be.

cgpg5

He was brilliant v Armenia alright, and if memory serves me right, he made a great impact v Czech's in March albeit in a friendly