Republic of Ireland v Germany - 12/10/2012 - 19:45 - RTE2/SS2

tdv123

I think we played well & were a bit unlucky. Very unlucky with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th goals. On another night we could have won about 3 or 4 nil. Oh well just wait till we get them in Munich we'll do number on them.

Sergio

Bottom line is the result the other night was coming for a while and in the past 12 months there has been plenty of "get out of jail" results for the Irish team. We were haunted to get a point against Russia along with some very lucky results against the other teams.
The result on tuesday night is irrelevant in my opinion as its about the way we play as a team. Our overall play is terrible to watch and is not good enough for the amount of money us supporters pay to go watch the games year after year!

ColeTrain

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm not seeing any great crisis relative to the strength of our squad, we've lost 4 of our last 5 competitive games against top 10 world ranked teams, which is a freakish run of difficult fixtures, and no way the norm in International football, even at a world cup. Also in that spell we ran into the greatest Spanish team of all time and the best German team in a long time. Have a fixture on Tuesday to put us into a position that any realistic fan would be very content with going into next years matches. Sweden aren't looking great, better quality than ourselves but it'll be close imo. I'm expecting 3rd in the group, and that wouldn't be underachieving at all, something Trap hasn't done during his spell in charge.

Thats all correct but you're missing the point re Trappatoni.

Fair enough we got a tough group in the Euro's and Germany are a serious team but the manner of the performances have been very poor.

His system is outdated and flawed. We are set up to contain and to try and nick a goal if the chance arises. The problem is when you go up against decent teams they tend to punish you when they're given time on the ball.
I'm not even going to go into the overlooking of players and the communication issues.
Under Trapatonni we are going nowhere. He must be removed so we can get someone in to rebuild for the future, giving the younger players a proper chance.

simongurnick

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm fcuking sick of this bollocks now.

I'm caught up in no 'Trap Out' frenzy. I think the FAI had to give him a new contract as he got us to the Euros, how couldn't you renew the contract of a manager who achieved his objective?

BUT, Kerr and Trappatoni were the exact same. Actually, we were much more organized under Kerr than we are under Trappatoni. We didn't spend the whole game under Kerr camped on the 18 yard line of our own box. The ONLY difference between the World Cup qualifying in 2006 and the South Africa 2010 one was a magical goal by Henry which made us lose 1-0 against France. Other than that we were pretty much the same. He most definitely should have gotten another group stage. People who say he shouldn't have been given another go at a group but Trappatoni shouldn't be sacked haven't a clue, as it is the same circumstances.

EDIT: We were set up class for the future under Kerr too, something Trappatoni could not give two fcuks about. The more I think about it the angrier I get that he was sacked.

Nonsense. Kerr still had the like of Roy Keane around and Given Duff and Robbie in their prime. He had far better players at his disposal.
How can you say we were set up for the future by Kerr when our 4th place finish screwed up our seeding for subsequent campaigns.

SuperInfinity

SantryRed wrote: »

Israel went through that group unbeaten. In 2008 we didn't beat Montenegro home or away. We were very lucky at home to Armenia too. I really don't think there's a difference between the two.

Armenia are good. Italy only beat them 3-1 two days ago (the match was level at half time and they had Italy sweating). Russia meanwhile beat Portugal, one of the best teams in the world (and couldn't beat Ireland either time we played).

Apart from Henri's "magical goal", there was also the trifling matter of the playoff. We sailed past Estonia while Stan's side would probably have lost that and it'd be another sob-story about how we "almost" got through.

simongurnick

briany wrote: »

The two sickening draws against Israel, where two perfectly good leads were needlessly lost would have something to do with that as well. The French goal was lucky whereas the Israeli goals were invited through negative play. He could have had the team future proofed to perfection but it wouldn't matter if he couldn't get his teams to close out results.



The team really shouldn't be getting beaten 1-6 no matter how depleted the squad may be. It's a pretty rare result in today's terms given the teams' relative closeness in ranking and it could have been more. If the players weren't questioning Trap's plan before that game, they'll certainly be doing so now and that will severely cripple, if not totally kill, their ability to enact it, with all it's flaws, with any real conviction - cue more half hearted performances and players complaining that they don't know what they were supposed to be doing, Trapattoni having more fallouts with players and that team limping out of that group with 3rd if they're lucky and Austria underperform, IMO.

It's not completely rare really. Bosnia got spanked 6-2 by Portugal in the Euro play offs. Although I'm still gutted it happened to us!

Gbear

briany wrote: »

The team really shouldn't be getting beaten 1-6 no matter how depleted the squad may be.

It really should against a team like Germany.

Losing in a non-embarrassing manner against a team like Germany considering what a heap of ****e we are is overachievement.

Remember when we barely scraped through against San Marino (2-1 or something?) and we were seriously pissed off at the performance?

That's what it's like for Germany playing us.

They're probably the 2nd best team in the world.

djPSB

Did the fans not get what they wanted the last night.

A change in formation and Robbie Keane not playing.

And James McCarthy and Coleman got their game.

SantryRed

djPSB wrote: »

Did the fans not get what they wanted the last night.

A change in formation and Robbie Keane not playing.

:rolleyes:

Xenophile

So the truth is out, Angela Merkel now knows that we have not been working on our football.

applehunter

djPSB wrote: »

Did the fans not get what they wanted the last night.

A change in formation and Robbie Keane not playing.

And James McCarthy and Coleman got their game.

I was happy to see the team line up the way they did.

I was happy to see someone other that Robbie lead the line in that formation.

Not happy with the application of the gameplan or the end result obv..

IMO we need to pressure teams on the ball and not give up possession so easily, especially in Lansdowne. Teams of much less ability than Germany have come and dominated games at Lansdowne the last few years.

SuperInfinity

We had a couple of disappointing results in a row, most of them against the world's best. Then we had a single horrible result against possibly the world's best team. That doesn't make us the Stan team.

Anything after three goals ahead doesn't signify much better. Remember Germany's 4-1 thrashing of England back in the 2010 world cup? England were devastated and embarrassed but they weren't like "derrr we're minnows now like San Marino", they didn't even sack the manager after the campaign, despite the typical brutality of the English press. There are 4-0s+ between top teams on a regular basis in the premiership also.

bookie basher

not putting pressure and closing down players on the ball is what infuriates me the most about ireland, the defence & midfield drop back so much their on top of the goalkeeper, its the worst way you can defend imo, its like your saying to the opposition "go on have a shot see if your good enough to score"

Stevecw

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Armenia are good. Italy only beat them 3-1 two days ago (the match was level at half time and they had Italy sweating). Russia meanwhile beat Portugal, one of the best teams in the world (and couldn't beat Ireland either time we played.

Apart from Henri's "magical goal", there was also the trifling matter of the playoff. We sailed past Estonia while Stan's side would probably have lost that and it'd be another sob-story about how we "almost" got through.

They bet us 3-2 in Dublin!

Carlos_Ray

djPSB wrote: »

Did the fans not get what they wanted the last night.

A change in formation and Robbie Keane not playing.

And James McCarthy and Coleman got their game.

Both Coleman and McCarthy have not been inducted into the squad in the correct manner. They should have far more game time then they currently have. Paul Green has more game time than the two of them put together.

Trap's famous luck has finally run out and his that fact that he has neglected his managerial duties has finally come back to bite us all in the ass. Qualifying for the Euro's covered the cracks, but the cracks are now canyons.

5 competitive games. 4 absolute thrashings and 1 embarrassing win over Kazakhstan. The problems run deep. He does not deserve to have the job anymore.

noodler

SantryRed wrote: »

Israel went through that group unbeaten. In 2008 we didn't beat Montenegro home or away. We were very lucky at home to Armenia too. I really don't think there's a difference between the two.

Whilst I agree Kerr was slightly hard done by not to get another crack at it, its clear to me that there was a reasonable difference when it came to bottle between his team and Trap's.

SantryRed

noodler wrote: »

Whilst I agree Kerr was slightly hard done by not to get another crack at it, its clear to me that there was a reasonable difference when it came to bottle between his team and Trap's.

I don't see it tbh. Just because we had two games against Israel where we threw away leads, but sure we did it against Bulgaria under Trap too.

noodler

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't see it tbh. Just because we had two games against Israel where we threw away leads, but sure we did it against Bulgaria under Trap too.

We did. We didn't lose to Italy or Bulgaria at home though and we beat the 4th seeds in the group home and away (Israel were the equivalent team in that group (after France, Swiss and us IIRC).

Kerr also had a a poor EURO 2004 campaign but everybody disregards that because McCarthy lost the first two games Vs Russia and Swiss.

Under that campaign, we didn't beat Albania away, were held by an average Russian side at home, and were beaten with a whimper in Switzerland.

I just felt Trap's teams held their nerve a bit better (or did last year) with a much weaker squad.

simongurnick

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Both Coleman and McCarthy have not been inducted into the squad in the correct manner. They should have far more game time then they currently have. Paul Green has more game time than the two of them put together.

Trap's famous luck has finally run out and his that fact that he has neglected his managerial duties has finally come back to bite us all in the ass. Qualifying for the Euro's covered the cracks, but the cracks are now canyons.

5 competitive games. 4 absolute thrashings and 1 embarrassing win over Kazakhstan. The problems run deep. He does not deserve to have the job anymore.

In fairness, McCarthy was on his way to the Euro's until he pulled out due to his father's health.
Coleman has played in a few friendlies and last season he did go off the boil a bit with Everton which didn't help his case.Friday showed, no matter how soon Coleman was brought into the squad he is miles off the world's best.
Same goes for people talking about Wilson. Yes, I'd have him ahead of Ward any day of the week, but he pulled out of a few friendlies himself.
Trap can't take the blame for everything lads.

applehunter

simongurnick wrote: »

In fairness, McCarthy was on his way to the Euro's until he pulled out due to his father's health.

Trap's record with McCarthy has been a communication disaster.

That is basic stuff. Nothing to do with football.

simongurnick wrote: »

Coleman has played in a few friendlies and last season he did go off the boil a bit with Everton which didn't help his case.Friday showed, no matter how soon Coleman was brought into the squad he is miles off the world's best.

Worlds best?

Is that a criteria to get into an Ireland team.

simongurnick wrote: »

Same goes for people talking about Wilson. Yes, I'd have him ahead of Ward any day of the week, but he pulled out of a few friendlies himself.
Trap can't take the blame for everything lads.

You'd have him ahead of Ward on what basis. We've barely seen him in an Irish jersey.

The buck stops with the manager. And at €1.4m a year he deserves exactly the kind of scrutiny he gets.

We've been like a Fiat Panda stuck in the mud at a Point-to-Point for the last 3 years. Euro's or no euros.

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

In fairness, McCarthy was on his way to the Euro's until he pulled out due to his father's health.

McCarthy had already been overlooked by Trap for Green many times before he pulled out of the Euros.

simongurnick wrote: »

Coleman has played in a few friendlies and last season he did go off the boil a bit with Everton which didn't help his case. Friday showed, no matter how soon Coleman was brought into the squad he is miles off the world's best.

As a winger Coleman is and always has been much better than Keogh and Cox and both of them got called up and played ahead of him. Saying he went off the boil last season as if that excuses the others being selected ahead of him is utter bollocks. Even in his most off the boil, which wasn't that off the boil at all, he was still much better than both of them.

Coleman got a few friendlies, big fúcking deal. He hasn't been given nearly as much game time as he deserved and then Trap sticks him in fullback against one of the best teams in the world in a crucial qualifier.

Saying that Friday showed that Coleman is miles off the worlds best is irrelevant bollocksology that you are using to try and make excuses for Trap as well. So what if Coleman isn't among the worlds best, he is still miles better than Cox and Keogh in the position.

simongurnick wrote: »

Same goes for people talking about Wilson. Yes, I'd have him ahead of Ward any day of the week, but he pulled out of a few friendlies himself.
Trap can't take the blame for everything lads.

Trap said that Wilson's exclusion from the squad was nothing to do with having cried off injured from the friendlies. It is Trap's fault that he has had a shít left back playing rather than a good one, so yeah we can blame him for that.

Pro. F

applehunter wrote: »

Worlds best?

Is that a criteria to get into an Ireland team.

This is the cretinous drivel that this guy has been saying for the last week. It's so fúcking stupid.

kippy

Calling for Traps head now is a bit premature in my opinion.
He has delivered (in that he got into the top two positions of the last two qualifying groups) in the past two campaigns and his remit for this one is to get into the top two positions in the group with the ultimate aim of qualifying for the WC.
Yeah, the performances have never been that easy to watch but generally over time they are effective in qualifying for these tournaments.

I believe people are seriously jumping the gun on him to be honest.
In the past 12 months alone we have played 5 of the top twenty teams in the world. This past six months has seen us in an absolute group of death at the Euros (containing the two finalists) and getting beaten by the number one and two teams in the world at this current point.

There is very obviously an issue with the talent coming through. Not one Irish player playing regular football for the top teams in the UK and very few Irish footballers in demand in the UK.

Now, that doesnt excuse some of Traps decisions in team selection and indeed his lack of English and lack of a second plan.
However, for all that it is worth at the moment, he needs to stay in charge until qualification from this group is an impossibility. Then decisions have to be made but I fear for the next decade of Irish soccer and the search for a more effective manager than Trap.

Sergio

Trap has lost the dressing room and thats the bottom line.Its not a coincidence when he has had so many run-ins with players over the past few years, McCarthy,Gibson,Long and the famous Andy Reid bust up. They all cant be wrong ffs!!!!!!!!!

Renn

kippy wrote: »

I fear for the next decade of Irish soccer and the search for a more effective manager than Trap.

Effective how though? Sure he's managed to qualify for the Euros but there wasn't anything spectacular or special in the way he went about it - sticking the majority of your team in the last third will work only for so long but thankfully now he's be found out. He's tactically inept, that much is pretty clear at this stage. He plays a totally obvious game and not even one that plays to Ireland's strengths (Lowe said he knew Ireland would play like this, so simple).

Quicker he's gone the quicker that team can begin rebuilding.

kippy

Renn wrote: »

Effective how though? Sure he's managed to qualify for the Euros but there wasn't anything spectacular or special in the way he went about it - sticking the majority of your team in the last third will work only for so long but thankfully now he's be found out. He's tactically inept, that much is pretty clear at this stage. He plays a totally obvious game and not even one that plays to Ireland's strengths (Lowe said he knew Ireland would play like this, so simple).

Quicker he's gone the quicker that team can begin rebuilding.

Effective as in qualifying for major tournaments with a very limited set of players. Do you expect Ireland to go out and win the Euros/ the WC?

This "obvious" style seems to work against all but the best in the world.


Irelands performance against Kazakstan in Kazakstan was knocked as another example of how poor trap is yet Austria went there and only managed a draw.

Renn

kippy wrote: »

This "obvious" style seems to work against all but the best in the world.

But it doesn't really work in the long run (and shouldn't have really worked in the first place). I've said that already. And if you looked at the games against the 'weaker' sides you'll see that it wasn't any great tactical plan - it was more of a hope that the opposition is sh*t in front of goal.

I wouldn't mind it all so much if his system looked a bit solid/you could see what he's trying to do, but no, it's shambolic and has been since day one.

token101

kippy wrote: »

Effective as in qualifying for major tournaments with a very limited set of players. Do you expect Ireland to go out and win the Euros/ the WC?

This "obvious" style seems to work against all but the best in the world.


Irelands performance against Kazakstan in Kazakstan was knocked as another example of how poor trap is yet Austria went there and only managed a draw.

We could have been more competitive in the Euros. Qualifying from the group was always going to be a massive challenge, but he didn't even attempt to make changes after the disaster of the first two games. We had nothing to lose in trying other players/systems, it should have been done to give guys a run out and give them some experience for the upcoming qualifiers if for nothing else. Our performance against Kazhakstan was dire. Just because someone else does equally as **** doesn't give us an excuse, we were woeful that night. If you want to compare like for like the Faroes only got beat 3-0 away to the Germans, we were destroyed at home.

applehunter

kippy wrote: »

Effective as in qualifying for major tournaments with a very limited set of players. Do you expect Ireland to go out and win the Euros/ the WC?

Do I expect, no.

Do I hope, yes.

Under the management of Trapattoni I can't even hope.

kippy wrote: »

This "obvious" style seems to work against all but the best in the world.

No it doesn't.

kippy wrote: »

Irelands performance against Kazakstan in Kazakstan was knocked as another example of how poor trap is yet Austria went there and only managed a draw.

Nevermind Austria.

That display against Kazakstan by any measure was awful.

Idbatterim

Anything after three goals ahead doesn't signify much better. Remember Germany's 4-1 thrashing of England back in the 2010 world cup? England were devastated and embarrassed but they weren't like "derrr we're minnows now like San Marino", they didn't even sack the manager after the campaign, despite the typical brutality of the English press. There are 4-0s+ between top teams on a regular basis in the premiership also.

in that same tournament, they also demolished australia and argentina by four goals!

djpbarry

RikkFlair wrote: »

It was a very ordinary group. France finished top despite winning just 5 of their 10 games. That group was there to be won by that Irish team and yet somehow finished 4th.

A whopping 3 points off top spot.

RikkFlair wrote: »

People talk about Trap having no plan B, Kerr was equally clueless in that Swiss game....a MUST WIN game...

Kerr had lost the support of the FAI long before that game and this had clearly transferred to the players.

RikkFlair wrote: »

Kerr was shown to be out of his depth towards the end of that qualifying campaign...

Absolute bollocks. That entire group was on a knife edge. Had Henry not come up with that wonder-goal in Dublin, all four teams would have finished on 18 points. Had Israel not somehow managed to draw in Dublin (people seem to forget that Ireland did absolutely everything but score in the second half of that game), Ireland would have finished second.

Felexicon wrote: »

Austria and Sweden are both really average teams at the moment and we could beat them both at home and realistically get draws away.

Seriously? Have you been watching Ireland’s recent performances? You honestly think this team has a hope in hell of beating any side capable of stringing 3 passes together?

simongurnick wrote: »

Thinking of the top of my head here, but pretty sure he made changes in the game, we went completely defensive, at home against Israel!

No, we didn’t. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. We absolutely battered their goal in the second half. Nine times out of ten, we would have won that game 3 or 4 nil – it was a freak result.

simongurnick wrote: »

Kerr's teams drew games we should have won, whereas Trap (up until recently) ground out games we would have lost in the past.

I’m sorry, what? Ireland drew six of their ten games for the 2010 world cup qualifiers?

noodler wrote: »

...Israel were the equivalent team in that group...

You’re placing way too much importance on seeding – Israel went through that campaign unbeaten.

kippy wrote: »

There is very obviously an issue with the talent coming through. Not one Irish player playing regular football for the top teams in the UK and very few Irish footballers in demand in the UK.

Most countries in the world do not have players playing regularly for the top teams in the UK – it’s not really an objective measure of anything.

Stevecw

Stickin with Trap is a load of bollox, at nothin with old senile him!! Gotta lose the old fool surely

simongurnick

Pro. F wrote: »

McCarthy had already been overlooked by Trap for Green many times before he pulled out of the Euros.



As a winger Coleman is and always has been much better than Keogh and Cox and both of them got called up and played ahead of him. Saying he went off the boil last season as if that excuses the others being selected ahead of him is utter bollocks. Even in his most off the boil, which wasn't that off the boil at all, he was still much better than both of them.

Coleman got a few friendlies, big fúcking deal. He hasn't been given nearly as much game time as he deserved and then Trap sticks him in fullback against one of the best teams in the world in a crucial qualifier.

Saying that Friday showed that Coleman is miles off the worlds best is irrelevant bollocksology that you are using to try and make excuses for Trap as well. So what if Coleman isn't among the worlds best, he is still miles better than Cox and Keogh in the position.



Trap said that Wilson's exclusion from the squad was nothing to do with having cried off injured from the friendlies. It is Trap's fault that he has had a shít left back playing rather than a good one, so yeah we can blame him for that.

McCarthy and Coleman were two of our worst players on Friday. All this hysteria to have them in the team, or to have them drafted in earlier (while we were in the middle of qualifiers and getting the results we needed) is ridiculous. They are two good prospects for sure. In most of the competitive games Duff played right wing, you think Coleman should have replaced him? Or do you think he should have been in the panel and then a few sub appearances would have him better equipped to face a team like Germany?
As for Wilson, he didn't give himself a chance by not playing in those friendlies, and no matter what Trap said in public the circumstances surrounding his absences didn't help.

simongurnick

Pro. F wrote: »

This is the cretinous drivel that this guy has been saying for the last week. It's so fúcking stupid.

Your points are stupid. You are moaning about Fahey, McCarthy and Coleman not been included yet they were utter ****e on Friday. Whether they played a few more games than Keogh or Green wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
If Paul McShane did the kind of crap Coleman did on Friday you'd be hearing all about it around here. For one goal, he basically fell over himself for christ sake!

djpbarry

simongurnick wrote: »

You are moaning about Fahey, McCarthy and Coleman not been included yet they were utter ****e on Friday.

Everyone was ****e on Friday. It wouldn't have mattered who started, the team performance would still have been diabolical.

kippy

applehunter wrote: »

Do I expect, no.

Do I hope, yes.

Under the management of Trapattoni I can't even hope.



No it doesn't.



Nevermind Austria.

That display against Kazakstan by any measure was awful.

Who apart from the top few teams in the world hasn't this obvious tactic not worked against?

I think there is a sliver of delusion creeping into some Irish fans minds. We are not the Ireland of 20 years or even 10 years ago. We have a limited pool of players, a damning indictment of the money spent on soccer in the past two decades if I am being honest, are consistently in qualifying groups as a low seed and we accept the fact that the FAI could be run a hell of a lot better.

Of course, as I said above, Trap has his negative points and they are frustrating to say the least but firing him now, after this match or indeed tomorrows match would be completely daft in my opinion.

The_Kew_Tour

djpbarry wrote: »

Everyone was ****e on Friday. It wouldn't have mattered who started, the team performance would still have been diabolical.

IMO Walters actually did well. Most of time when he got ball he actually found a man. Did lot of work imo.

just my 2c.

jmayo

Renn wrote: »

I was expecting what happened on Friday night - just surprised it hasn't happened more often in the past few years. Defensively, Ireland are not at all solid. That may look a bit strange considering the number of clean sheets kept etc but if anyone actually looked at those games you could see that there was no 'system'. There was a method of sitting back, putting x amount of bodies in the final third and hoping that the opposition had a bad day. And lots of teams had bad days - it really was a crazy run of results (losing at home just the once to Russia in EQ). Teams created loads of chances vs Ireland but just were not scoring.

The writing has been on the wall for some time now.
We only escaped a similar mauling to the other night by the Russians through the sheer determination and world class defending of Dunne.

The difference the other night was that, as Didi Haman said later, Germany didn't need to go anywhere near top gear.

People are saying we have been unlucky and have played some of the top teams in the world.
Well could they then explain what the fook was happening in Astana or have Kazakhstan suddenly become a world soccer powerhouse.
And please don't drag in how the Austria result have shown how good they are.
We were damm lucky to get a draw never mind a win.
We played atrociously bad in that match and it looked like Kazakhstan were the ones nearly a 100 places higher in the world rankings.

Yes in the grand scheme of things we should lose to Italy, Germany, Spain and maybe even a decent enough Croatia.
But as people said the other night, there is losing whilst giving it a go and there is LOSING by just being an abject shambles.

The team is going nowhere and Trapatoni is clueless.
He appears to have forgotten everything that makes a football manager/coach good at their job.

djPSB wrote: »

Did the fans not get what they wanted the last night.

A change in formation and Robbie Keane not playing.

And James McCarthy and Coleman got their game.

Yeah and Simon Cox lost on the wing, a pretty good premiership striker was left on the bench and we had a guy playing for the worst team in the north America league on instead of a premiership defender.

It said a lot when Ronnie Whelan had to be reminded that Cox was still on the pitch when they were doing substitutes late in the game.

Sergio wrote: »

Trap has lost the dressing room and thats the bottom line.Its not a coincidence when he has had so many run-ins with players over the past few years, McCarthy,Gibson,Long and the famous Andy Reid bust up. They all cant be wrong ffs!!!!!!!!!

There was also Steven Reid and the way Coleman has been handled.

kippy

jmayo wrote: »

Well could they then explain what the fook was happening in Astana or have Kazakhstan suddenly become a world soccer powerhouse.
And please don't drag in how the Austria result have shown how good they are.

Why wouldn't someone "drag in" the Austria result?
Does it not put some context onto the performance/result?
Yeah, we should have played a lot better but we got the result in the end. That's football.

jmayo

kippy wrote: »

Why wouldn't someone "drag in" the Austria result?
Does it not put some context onto the performance/result?
Yeah, we should have played a lot better but we got the result in the end. That's football.

Austria are no great shakes and yet they managed a better result against Germany than we did.
Where does that then leave our result against the Kazahks ?

It is when you actually look behind the results you see how bad the performances are.
We were lucky to get that result.
We have had a fair amount of luck in a lot of our good results.
Moscow being good example.
The thing is when you come up against real good teams, you can't just rely on luck.

Are you happy with the way we are playing ?

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

McCarthy and Coleman were two of our worst players on Friday. All this hysteria to have them in the team, or to have them drafted in earlier (while we were in the middle of qualifiers and getting the results we needed) is ridiculous.

No they weren't. O'Shea, O'Dea and Cox were worse than either of them. Everybody except Westwood and Walters played poorly anyway. There was huge disruption in every area of the team and we know Trap's tactics are not conducive to good performances so there was always going to be problems.
Criticising those players for struggling in that situation is fùcking stupid.

And whatever clamour you think was around for Coleman at fullback, none of it was coming from me. I've been calling for him to be used on the wing. I can accept trying him out at fullback, but his first game there being against Germany is obviously an error.

St Ledger was drafted in during competitive games. The idea that a team has to remain the exact same during a qualification campaign is ridiculous.

simongurnick wrote: »

In most of the competitive games Duff played right wing, you think Coleman should have replaced him?

You think Duff and McGeady played every minute of every competitive game?

simongurnick wrote: »

Or do you think he should have been in the panel and then a few sub appearances would have him better equipped to face a team like Germany?

A young attacking winger/fullback hybrid making his debut at fullback against Germany is a bad situation. Deny that if you want, it only shows that you are talking out your hole.

simongurnick wrote: »

As for Wilson, he didn't give himself a chance by not playing in those friendlies, and no matter what Trap said in public the circumstances surrounding his absences didn't help.

Other managers would have worked through it somehow. When Trap falls out with so many players and publicly makes so many gaffs in his communication then the he gets the blame for these problems. Believing that Trap did all that was reasonably possible to sort things with Wilson when all the evidence points to the opposite is ridiculous.

simongurnick wrote: »

Your points are stupid. You are moaning about Fahey, McCarthy and Coleman not been included yet they were utter ****e on Friday. Whether they played a few more games than Keogh or Green wouldn't have made a bit of difference.

Already addressed above.

simongurnick wrote: »

If Paul McShane did the kind of crap Coleman did on Friday you'd be hearing all about it around here. For one goal, he basically fell over himself for christ sake!

For a debut at fullback, with two centrebacks what were completely lost, in a team that was completely disrupted and disorganized, against one of the best teams in the world, he did fine. You are bullshìtting again.

noodler

We can't judge a player's worth based on Friday.

Predalien

noodler wrote: »

We can't judge a player's worth based on Friday.

It was fairly obvious that Darren O'Dea is not capable and shouldn't be used again.

noodler

Predalien wrote: »

It was fairly obvious that Darren O'Dea is not capable and shouldn't be used again.

Right, well he has proven in worth in previous qualifiers - might be difficult now that he is in Toronto.

Anyway, my point was more on the likes of Coleman, McCarthy which I thought would have been fairly obvious.

cgpg5

Predalien wrote: »

It was fairly obvious that Darren O'Dea is not capable and shouldn't be used again.

At least he's our 4th choice CB when all are fit.

kfallon

kippy wrote: »

Why wouldn't someone "drag in" the Austria result?
Does it not put some context onto the performance/result?
Yeah, we should have played a lot better but we got the result in the end. That's football.

I know football is a results business but sometimes a perceived 'good result' can be bad for a team. Take the 2011 qualifiers against Slovakia at home and Russia away. Slovakia were the better team at Lansdowne but we got a 0-0 draw. 4 days later we had 'The Miracle of Moscow' where we should have been on the end of an absolute battering like last Friday but somehow Dunne managed to keep them out. That sort of lucky result only reinforced Trapp's thinking that the way he was setting the team up was the right thing to do. He didn't see it as luck but his tactics. Yes we got the result but the long term effect on the team is coming home to roost now. We got a pub team in the play offs and then it all went pear shaped culminating in us having our arses handed to us by Germany on Friday.

It's clear Trapp doesn't rate the players, his tactics tell you that. I was at the game the other night and at one stage Ireland got a free kick about ten yards in their own half. Any half decent team would have got the game going again quickly, maybe try and exploit an opposition player being out of position. Not us tho, Westwood had to come all they way out of his goal to take it and lump it straight into the box. I'd say the German centre backs never had an easier game. Walters was left isolated and the only 'service' he got was to run into the channels after aimless balls. All we did was get the ball and give it straight back to the Germans by lumping it forward and they were free to launch another attack.

I will admit I left the game at half time, I couldn't take anymore. I felt so sorry for people who had travelled from the likes of Donegal or Cork and paid a fairly substantial amount for a ticket to see a manager set his team of professional players up like a bad U-12's team.

The next 7 qualifiers will be terrible to watch, a manager who knows he's on the way out, players knowing he's on the way out, it's just gonna be a 'going thru the motions' scenario until the next set of Euro Qualifiers.

Cartman78

Predalien wrote: »

It was fairly obvious that Darren O'Dea is not capable and shouldn't be used again.

Agreed, although the fact that he's playing for one of the worst teams in Canada would have been a hint at his total lack of suitability for international footbal.

kippy

kfallon wrote: »

I know football is a results business but sometimes a perceived 'good result' can be bad for a team. Take the 2011 qualifiers against Slovakia at home and Russia away. Slovakia were the better team at Lansdowne but we got a 0-0 draw. 4 days later we had 'The Miracle of Moscow' where we should have been on the end of an absolute battering like last Friday but somehow Dunne managed to keep them out. That sort of lucky result only reinforced Trapp's thinking that the way he was setting the team up was the right thing to do. He didn't see it as luck but his tactics. Yes we got the result but the long term effect on the team is coming home to roost now. We got a pub team in the play offs and then it all went pear shaped culminating in us having our arses handed to us by Germany on Friday.

It's clear Trapp doesn't rate the players, his tactics tell you that. I was at the game the other night and at one stage Ireland got a free kick about ten yards in their own half. Any half decent team would have got the game going again quickly, maybe try and exploit an opposition player being out of position. Not us tho, Westwood had to come all they way out of his goal to take it and lump it straight into the box. I'd say the German centre backs never had an easier game. Walters was left isolated and the only 'service' he got was to run into the channels after aimless balls. All we did was get the ball and give it straight back to the Germans by lumping it forward and they were free to launch another attack.

I will admit I left the game at half time, I couldn't take anymore. I felt so sorry for people who had travelled from the likes of Donegal or Cork and paid a fairly substantial amount for a ticket to see a manager set his team of professional players up like a bad U-12's team.

The next 7 qualifiers will be terrible to watch, a manager who knows he's on the way out, players knowing he's on the way out, it's just gonna be a 'going thru the motions' scenario until the next set of Euro Qualifiers.

You left at half time 2-0 down?


Football is a results game, just ask any manager. Ultimately Traps job is to get this team into the next WC. Until that is an impossibility then I don't believe sacking him will achieve nothing.

Again I will say it, there is a portion of Irish fans that are somewhat deluded to expect us to be the team of 10-20 years ago. We've a lot to do to get back there again and changing the manager is the least important aspect of it.

cgpg5

kippy wrote: »

You left at half time 2-0 down?


Football is a results game, just ask any manager. Ultimately Traps job is to get this team into the next WC. Until that is an impossibility then I don't believe sacking him will achieve nothing.

Again I will say it, there is a portion of Irish fans that are somewhat deluded to expect us to be the team of 10-20 years ago. We've a lot to do to get back there again and changing the manager is the least important aspect of it.

He had paid his money for a ticket and had every right to leave when he wanted. It was blatantly obvious that the second half was going to be a horror show anyway

Felexicon

kippy wrote: »

You left at half time 2-0 down?


Football is a results game, just ask any manager. Ultimately Traps job is to get this team into the next WC. Until that is an impossibility then I don't believe sacking him will achieve nothing.

Again I will say it, there is a portion of Irish fans that are somewhat deluded to expect us to be the team of 10-20 years ago. We've a lot to do to get back there again and changing the manager is the least important aspect of it.

I think you'll find changing the manager is one of the most important aspects of it!!!
No one here is making any reference to teams of 10 or 20 years ago. It's just blindingly obvious that the team is not performing under Trap and a change needs to be made before it's too late