Republic of Ireland v Germany - 12/10/2012 - 19:45 - RTE2/SS2

simongurnick

SantryRed wrote: »

Holy sh1t, did you watch the games? It was pretty fcuking obvious.

The qualifiers? We got the results we needed.

Backstreet Moyes

simongurnick wrote: »

First off, got off your high horse with your "lying" bull****. You sound like a child.
Listen lad, during the time period you are talking about we qualified for the euro's and reached a play off for the world cup, so please tell me where Trap's selections put us at such a disadvantage during those campaigns?
And don't try to tell me that if these lads played in the Euro's we would have performed better.

We were fortunate to get out of a relatively easy group and wouldnt have beaten anyone besides Estonia. This is the best group of players we have since 2002. The fact is the manager for some reason decides not to utilise his best resources. If Trap's selections stay the same and im sure they will we will finish 4th in this group.

Idbatterim

really hope we see this on Friday...

Mr.Nice Guy

Some things which I think are worth considering ahead of the game:

1) The Germans have never lost a World Cup qualifier away from home.

2) The Germans have only ever lost two games in their qualification history.

3) We are without several key players including what would likely have been our first choice central defence and one of our main central midfielders.

4) This German side would give our all-time greatest Ireland XI a run for their money.

5) A three-strong panel of Fergie, Mourinho and Wenger would struggle to think up a strategy of getting this Ireland team to beat this German team.

simongurnick

Nuts102 wrote: »

We were fortunate to get out of a relatively easy group and wouldnt have beaten anyone besides Estonia. This is the best group of players we have since 2002. The fact is the manager for some reason decides not to utilise his best resources. If Trap's selections stay the same and im sure they will we will finish 4th in this group.

Sorry, but I don't think we can be considered "lucky" over a two year period of qualification.
And I don't agree that we wouldn't have beaten anyone besides Estonia(who we hammered.)
We also could have faced Turkey who fell to pieces against Croatia, Bosnia, who on paper would be a tougher challenge, but they got hammered 6-2 against Portugal. The third team was Montenegro who at the time were ranked just two places below Estonia.

madma

i really fear that were going to get smashed..

i heard they were lucky to beat austria so that sounds like good news..

it will be very interesting to hear the lineup and formation..

cant wait for the rte panel to have their digs also

suicide_circus

Kinda regretting buying a ticket now if it's gonna be the long ball over the top to keane all night. Also getting worried we're gonna concede 4+ goals which will just be depressing. Thinking of all the ways that 65€ could have been better spent !
Ah well, COME ON IRELAND !!

tolosenc

madma wrote: »

cant wait for the rte panel to have their digs also

Dunphy would be having digs if we had that German team...

fryup

what part of the ground will ze germans be??

kitakyushu

fryup wrote: »

what part of the ground will ze germans be??

I presume they get they get the dinky stand?

leonidas83

Anyone using the fact that we scraped through our relatively easy euro qualifying group with some unbelievably lucky results as a basis that Trap has done a good job for Ireland doesnt have a clue what their talking about.

What does Trap bring to the Irish set up anymore, we play a ****, archaic style of football. We persist with players who shouldnt be anywhere the international setup & do so at the expense of players with serious potential. He falls out with players left right & centre.

I dont see any reasonable argument as to why Trap should continue aside from the fact that he scraped qualification from a very soft euro qualifying group & playoff match.

Rekop dog

leonidas83 wrote: »

Anyone using the fact that we scraped through our relatively easy euro qualifying group with some unbelievably lucky results as a basis that Trap has done a good job for Ireland doesnt have a clue what their talking about.

It wasn't that easy, Slovaks had just played in the previous world cup, probably have a better starting 11 than ourselves, very good centre back pairing as well as the likes of Hamsik and Weiss, can't just dismiss them because they finished behind Armenia. And as I always say the Estonia draw was due to Trap putting us in a seeded position due to consistant results after taking over when we were miles down the rankings. People being so definite in saying we would have lost to any other unseeded side in the playoffs is madness, we've not lost A Single competitive match against a team ranked lower than us in his time in charge and boast one of the most impressive away international records, sample size of games is far too big to put a lucky tag on it.

TheRoomWrecker

Keane's out thanks to McShane, Walters rumored to be getting the nod,

MD1990

TheRoomWrecker wrote: »

Keane's out thanks to McShane, Walters rumored to be getting the nod,

McShane actually proved to be useful for once
if we are playing 1 up front Keane would be a disaster
i would like to see Long up front but Walters would be good up there too

kitakyushu

MD1990 wrote: »

McShane actually proved to be useful for once
if we are playing 1 up front Keane would be a disaster
i would like to see Long up front but Walters would be good up there too

Maybe McShane is testing the water to be a future Ireland manager? If he takes-out Ward today in training then my suspicions will be confirmed.

carlop

Rekop dog wrote: »

It wasn't that easy, Slovaks had just played in the previous world cup, probably have a better starting 11 than ourselves, very good centre back pairing as well as the likes of Hamsik and Weiss, can't just dismiss them because they finished behind Armenia. And as I always say the Estonia draw was due to Trap putting us in a seeded position due to consistant results after taking over when we were miles down the rankings. People being so definite in saying we would have lost to any other unseeded side in the playoffs is madness, we've not lost A Single competitive match against a team ranked lower than us in his time in charge and boast one of the most impressive away international records, sample size of games is far too big to put a lucky tag on it.

Don't go introducing logic or perspective into this argument! This here be an ol' fashioned witch hunt!

billymitchell

TheRoomWrecker wrote: »

Keane's out thanks to McShane, Walters rumored to be getting the nod,

Whats this McShane business all about??

Banjaxed82

Keane out through injury is yet more proof of how much Tardelli does be talking out of his hole.

Lumbo

billymitchell wrote: »

Whats this McShane business all about??

Keane is injured because he was involved in a collision with McShane in training on Tuesday.

No word yet if they were playing on the same side.

Awesomeness

Keith Andrews& Kieron Westwood are training and should be fine. Jon Walters had a 1st XI bib in training before media put out

Francie Barrett

It will be ludicrous if Walters starts. By all means, we should deploy him as a battering ram in the last 20, but to start him is madness. We need someone with goalscoring ability and a bit of gumption about him (i.e. Long).

BrookieD

The Football Association of Ireland today (Thursday) confirmed that Robbie Keane has been ruled out of the Germany game with an Achilles injury. Robbie will remain with the squad to undergo treatment, and will hopefully be available for the Faroe Islands game on Tuesday night.

Giovanni Trapattoni will name his replacement captain and starting XI at 3pm this afternoon in the Grand Hotel, Malahide.

clubberlang12

Rekop dog wrote: »

It wasn't that easy, Slovaks had just played in the previous world cup, probably have a better starting 11 than ourselves, very good centre back pairing as well as the likes of Hamsik and Weiss, can't just dismiss them because they finished behind Armenia. And as I always say the Estonia draw was due to Trap putting us in a seeded position due to consistant results after taking over when we were miles down the rankings. People being so definite in saying we would have lost to any other unseeded side in the playoffs is madness, we've not lost A Single competitive match against a team ranked lower than us in his time in charge and boast one of the most impressive away international records, sample size of games is far too big to put a lucky tag on it.

But neither have we beaten a team ranked above us in a competitive match under his tenure. We are also now ranked lower in the world rankings than before the Euro's.

Rekop dog

clubberlang12 wrote: »

But neither have we beaten a team ranked above us in a competitive match under his tenure. We are also now ranked lower in the world rankings than before the Euro's.

Average teams losing to far superior ones(like both European Cup finalists) tends to happen in football you know, we have though beaten France in Paris, and got some credible draws against much higher ranked sides than ourselves. Of course the ranking was going to drop after 3 consecutive loses to top 10 teams but you're thankfully not facing this quality regularly in International football.

TaosHum

Rekop dog wrote: »

Average teams losing to far superior ones(like both European Cup finalists) tends to happen in football you know, we have though beaten France in Paris, and got some credible draws against much higher ranked sides than ourselves. Of course the ranking was going to drop after 3 consecutive loses to top 10 teams but you're thankfully not facing this quality regularly in International football.

That went down as a draw, not a win.

leonidas83

Rekop dog wrote: »

It wasn't that easy, Slovaks had just played in the previous world cup, probably have a better starting 11 than ourselves, very good centre back pairing as well as the likes of Hamsik and Weiss, can't just dismiss them because they finished behind Armenia. And as I always say the Estonia draw was due to Trap putting us in a seeded position due to consistant results after taking over when we were miles down the rankings. People being so definite in saying we would have lost to any other unseeded side in the playoffs is madness, we've not lost A Single competitive match against a team ranked lower than us in his time in charge and boast one of the most impressive away international records, sample size of games is far too big to put a lucky tag on it.

Slovaks were beaten at home 4-0 by armenia but yet both times when they played us we made them look like Brazil. To this day I dont know how we got results against Slovakia & Russia in that group given our performance in those matches. The only reason they (Slovakia) may have a better starting eleven than ourselves is because Trapattoni insists on playing players who shouldnt be anywhere near the setup & alienates the ones that would actually make us a better team.

True, he gets results against inferior opposition sometimes which remarkably led us to a decent world ranking but can you honestly say you were happy that we got through to the euros & got spanked in the most humiliating fashion. Id rather we got a decent team in the playoff, saw how **** we were then & left it at that instead of deluding ourselves that we were something were not.

Everyone wants the best for Irish football but anyone thinking that Trapattoni's tactics, man management, decision making & sheer laziness is good for ireland is deluded.

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

First off, got off your high horse with your "lying" bull****. You sound like a child.

If you lie so obviously then you should expect to be called on it. No high horse here, just responding to what you've said.

simongurnick wrote: »

Listen lad, during the time period you are talking about we qualified for the euro's and reached a play off for the world cup, so please tell me where Trap's selections put us at such a disadvantage during those campaigns?
And don't try to tell me that if these lads played in the Euro's we would have performed better.

Lol, you really have backed yourself into a corner. I'm not going to argue hypothetical what ifs with you because I know you will argue black is white about anything I say about it. The fact is you are saying that S Reid, Gibson, McCarthy and Fahey aren't much better than Paul Green and their selection over him wouldn't have made the team much stronger. This shows that your opinions on football are invalid. Your statements are too stupid to argue with. We can just agree to disagree and you can carry on holding your mentally retarded opinion on Paul Green and the others I mentioned.

clubberlang12

Rekop dog wrote: »

Average teams losing to far superior ones(like both European Cup finalists) tends to happen in football you know, we have though beaten France in Paris, and got some credible draws against much higher ranked sides than ourselves. Of course the ranking was going to drop after 3 consecutive loses to top 10 teams but you're thankfully not facing this quality regularly in International football.

So by your assumption, it is quite fine to be demolished by teams ranked less than 19 places above us(we were ranked 19th going into the Euro's) but is somewhat of an achievement that we struggle to beat teams ranked over 100 places below us? Yes we have drawn some game against higher ranked opposition, but we have also drawn against much lower ranked opposition i.e, Macedonia.

My point is that it is very easy to pick up on just one stat to prove your point. Yes we had a tough Euro group but that still doesn't negate the fact we have not beaten any higher ranked teams under Traps regime over 4 years.

Rekop dog

leonidas83 wrote: »

Slovaks were beaten at home 4-0 by armenia but yet both times when they played us we made them look like Brazil. To this day I dont know how we got results against Slovakia & Russia in that group given our performance in those matches. The only reason they (Slovakia) may have a better starting eleven than ourselves is because Trapattoni insists on playing players who shouldnt be anywhere near the setup & alienates the ones that would actually make us a better team.

True, he gets results against inferior opposition sometimes which remarkably led us to a decent world ranking but can you honestly say you were happy that we got through to the euros & got spanked in the most humiliating fashion. Id rather we got a decent team in the playoff, saw how **** we were then & left it at that instead of deluding ourselves that we were something were not.

Everyone wants the best for Irish football but anyone thinking that Trapattoni's tactics, man management, decision making & sheer laziness is good for ireland is deluded.

Slovakia beat Russia in Moscow, we can all pick out a single result in a sample to make an argument seem stronger but that's poor posting. My argument is based on fact and a subjective view on the achievement of Trap during his time here relative to the strength of our squad. Yours is an objective one due to your dislike of the manager you see everything in a negative light, have an overoptimistic view of ability of players being left out and level of improvement they'd bring, and somehow believe you have more tactical knowhow than one of the most successful managers of all time!

Rekop dog

clubberlang12 wrote: »

So by your assumption, it is quite fine to be demolished by teams ranked less than 19 places above us(we were ranked 19th going into the Euro's) but is somewhat of an achievement that we struggle to beat teams ranked over 100 places below us? Yes we have drawn some game against higher ranked opposition, but we have also drawn against much lower ranked opposition i.e, Macedonia.

My point is that it is very easy to pick up on just one stat to prove your point. Yes we had a tough Euro group but that still doesn't negate the fact we have not beaten any higher ranked teams under Traps regime over 4 years.

If we were beating these higher ranked teams regularly we'd be one of the best teams in the world, I personally don't think we've a side that could be considered close or ever contend to be top international level with our 1 player currently applying his trade in European competitions, do you? Wonder who is the one with realistic view on things here!

noodler

The oul IQ would drop a few points reading the last few pasges.

Anyway, Keane out.

Disappointing in the sense that he is still the most likely lad if we need a goal.

However, given the opposition, and given he would have likely played up front on his own, it must be seen as more positive than bad imo.

It makes Walters an automatic choice for the lone striking spot imo. Long is in decent form as well but I think that we will need the brute physicality of Walters if we are to even try and keep the ball in their half for the first 30 minutes.

At least then Long can come off the bench in the (admittedly hopeful) scenario where the game is still in the balance in the last 30 mins.

What an injury crisis though. Glad we have a bit more depth than our Celtic neighbours in these situations.

I hadn't realised Kelly hasn't played a game for Fulham this season.

noodler

clubberlang12 wrote: »

My point is that it is very easy to pick up on just one stat to prove your point. Yes we had a tough Euro group but that still doesn't negate the fact we have not beaten any higher ranked teams under Traps regime over 4 years.

Or under Stan or Kerr.

Yet Trap actually achieved something.

clubberlang12

Rekop dog wrote: »

If we were beating these higher ranked teams regularly we'd be one of the best teams in the world, I personally don't think we've a side that could be considered close or ever contend to be top international level with our 1 player currently applying his trade in European competitions, do you? Wonder who is the one with realistic view on things here!

I said nothing about having non-realistic goals of beating top 10 teams and certainly not with this squad or this manager. You are failing to grasp, intentionally or unintentionally, that i was quite simply counter-balancing your point with just as relative and factual a point.

You're first line was...........

Average teams losing to far superior ones(like both European Cup finalists) tends to happen in football you know,

Yet by your point, it is a massive positive for the Trap argument that far inferior teams fail to win against us but yet when we fail to beat any higher ranked teams it is somehow the norm.

And yes, i am beginning to wonder who has the realistic view on things on here.

Awesomeness

clubberlang12 wrote: »

I said nothing about having non-realistic goals of beating top 10 teams and certainly not with this squad or this manager. You are failing to grasp, intentionally or unintentionally, that i was quite simply counter-balancing your point with just as relative and factual a point.

You're first line was...........



Yet by your point, it is a massive positive for the Trap argument that far inferior teams fail to win against us but yet when we fail to beat any higher ranked teams it is somehow the norm.

And yes, i am beginning to wonder who has the realistic view on things on here.

A big fault with the argument is that those rankings are absolute bollocks. Look where England are

clubberlang12

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noodler wrote: »

Or under Stan or Kerr.

Yet Trap actually achieved something.

Ah Noodler come on, you are better than that. Why only pick Stan or Kerr(by coincidence our worst two appointments of the last 20+ years)

Wonder why you didn't go back as far as Mick or Jack. Probably because it nulls your point completely.

simongurnick

Pro. F wrote: »

If you lie so obviously then you should expect to be called on it. No high horse here, just responding to what you've said.



Lol, you really have backed yourself into a corner. I'm not going to argue hypothetical what ifs with you because I know you will argue black is white about anything I say about it. The fact is you are saying that S Reid, Gibson, McCarthy and Fahey aren't much better than Paul Green and their selection over him wouldn't have made the team much stronger. This shows that your opinions on football are invalid. Your statements are too stupid to argue with. We can just agree to disagree and you can carry on holding your mentally retarded opinion on Paul Green and the others I mentioned.

I'm backed into a corner? Like I said, show me how we've been so disadvantaged over the last few tears with Trap's selections.
Anway, enjoy the match mate. At the end of the day we're both Ireland fans so no need for all the sniping. Good luck.

clubberlang12

Awesomeness wrote: »

A big fault with the argument is that those rankings are absolute bollocks. Look where England are

Don't agree with them myself Awesomeness but they are what we have to deal with i'm afraid.

Idbatterim

keane injured if only for the german match, could be a blessing in disguise...

Neeson

Nice to see Keane out. Long should be on but probably won't. He should just leave the squad. It's a solid disgrace that he can't get starting

Awesomeness

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Don't agree with them myself Awesomeness but they are what we have to deal with i'm afraid.

Have to deal with them I just would not be using them as a basis of how good or bad a team is and whether or not we should beat them

noodler

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Ah Noodler come on, you are better than that. Why only pick Stan or Kerr(by coincidence our worst two appointments of the last 20+ years)

Wonder why you didn't go back as far as Mick or Jack. Probably because it nulls your point completely.

Are you serious?

Okay, lets go back more than 11 ****ing years to our last win against a top team against Holland.

You see? 11 ****ing years.

Christ, you'd swear Ireland were hammering Brazil and Spain regularly before Trap took over.

How about another stat?

Mick got us qualified after three campaigns, it only took Trap two.

There is no point in seriously laying the blame that we don't beat top seeds at Trap's feet - its has been that way for over a decade (and even before that they were still rare occurances).

SantryRed

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It will be ludicrous if Walters starts. By all means, we should deploy him as a battering ram in the last 20, but to start him is madness. We need someone with goalscoring ability and a bit of gumption about him (i.e. Long).

What? :pac:

We need someone upfront who can hold the ball up and bring the wingers and maybe a midfielder ( :pac: ) into play. Walters is definitely the better option of the two.

Rekop dog

clubberlang12 wrote: »

I said nothing about having non-realistic goals of beating top 10 teams and certainly not with this squad or this manager. You are failing to grasp, intentionally or unintentionally, that i was quite simply counter-balancing your point with just as relative and factual a point.

You're first line was...........



Yet by your point, it is a massive positive for the Trap argument that far inferior teams fail to win against us but yet when we fail to beat any higher ranked teams it is somehow the norm.

And yes, i am beginning to wonder who has the realistic view on things on here.

It is a massive positive because the majority of games you face in qualifying are against lower ranked sides an accumulated positive results against these teams including the odd point against teams ranked higher can and has been enough to brings us to two consecutive playoff, while teams ranked in and around us in previous campaigns (Bulgaria/Slovakia) struggled to match our consistancy against team you should be beating!

Pudsy33

SantryRed wrote: »

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It will be ludicrous if Walters starts. By all means, we should deploy him as a battering ram in the last 20, but to start him is madness. We need someone with goalscoring ability and a bit of gumption about him (i.e. Long).

What? :pac:

We need someone upfront who can hold the ball up and bring the wingers and maybe a midfielder ( :pac: ) into play. Walters is definitely the better option of the two.

Fully agree, Walters is a target man and should be on the pitch. I'd be in favour of playing Long wide though instead of Cox.

SantryRed

If it was any other manager playing this ridiculous tactics, I'd predict a hammering against the Germans. But since it's Trap, who seems to have some sort of supernatural force giving him a tonne of luck, we'll probably draw 1-1 or get destroyed but still somehow only lose 2-1.

Lack of Dunne to bail Trap's tactics out will probably mean a 3-0 loss.

Kylo Ren

Comfortable 2-0 victory for Zee Germans.

We are going to be hit by the Blitzkrieg from start to finish.

clubberlang12

noodler wrote: »

Are you serious?

Okay, lets go back more than 11 ****ing years to our last win against a top team against Holland.

You see? 11 ****ing years.

Christ, you'd swear Ireland were hammering Brazil and Spain regularly before Trap took over.

How about another stat?

Mick got us qualified after three campaigns, it only took Trap two.

There is not point in seriously laying the blame that we don't beat top seeds at Trap's feet - its has been that way for over a decade (and even before that they were still rare occurances).

Getting your knickers in a twist or what there Noodler?

Yes, 11 years as you put it........but who has being in charge for those 11 years? Our current manager and two that should never have been there(one definitely, don't think i need to tell you who).

But thats okay Noodler, go back just enough to prove you point. If you choose to take a small enough sample it will always prove a point.

That's a nice stat you pointed out. Let us come back after this campaign and see how Trap fares. Let's not forget Mick got us to 2 play-offs and a World Cup from 3 full campaigns.

And if you want to be pedantic about stats...........Mick got us to a World Cup.........Trap didn't.

Blatter

Chances of Trap deploying Cox as the ''third midfielder'' as he did against Spain?

Pudsy33

Blatter wrote: »

Chances of Trap deploying Cox as the ''third midfielder'' as he did against Spain?

Cox will be wide in the front three with McGeady and Walters. Midfield will be Fahey, Andrews and McCarthy.

Blatter

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Cox will be wide in the front three with McGeady and Walters. Midfield will be Fahey, Andrews and McCarthy.

How he can pick Cox in that position ahead of someone like McClean is just unbelievable.