Republic of Ireland v Germany - 12/10/2012 - 19:45 - RTE2/SS2

Backstreet Moyes

noodler wrote: »

Are you serious?

Okay, lets go back more than 11 ****ing years to our last win against a top team against Holland.

You see? 11 ****ing years.

Christ, you'd swear Ireland were hammering Brazil and Spain regularly before Trap took over.

How about another stat?

Mick got us qualified after three campaigns, it only took Trap two.

There is no point in seriously laying the blame that we don't beat top seeds at Trap's feet - its has been that way for over a decade (and even before that they were still rare occurances).

Theirs a big difference with Mick look at the group he qualified us through. Unbeaten home and away to Holland and Portugal. Drew with Germany and had Spain running down the clock trying to hold on for penalties.

Look at Trap falling out with alot of the players. I really think he lost the dressing room after his treatment of Foley. The fact is when we come up against a better team he doesnt even try to mix up the tactics. The Russia coach even joked about how he could name Traps team a week before the game. We are too predictable and its easy for teams to prepare against us they know what were going to do. I mean we made Kazhakstan look like Brazil. A team full of players who are nobodys.

Im a big fan of Keane and dont understand the abuse he gets but im glad he wont be up front on his own. This is the time for Long to get his chance. He has the quality to cause the Germans problems with his pace. Walters is great at holding the ball up and could be useful with 20 to go if we are looking to hold onto a draw or win. But if he starts up front on his own it means we are going to be launching it forward all night for him to hold the ball up. Basically starting from the off with the intentions of holding on for 90 mins. Its going to be brutal to watch.

Pudsy33

Blatter wrote: »

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Cox will be wide in the front three with McGeady and Walters. Midfield will be Fahey, Andrews and McCarthy.

How he can pick Cox in that position ahead of someone like McClean is just unbelievable.

I know, bizarre. Hopefully I'm wrong but that's what the media seem to think anyway.

McClean will actually academy defenders with his pace and crossing. Cox is a good player in his own right, just not in that role.

homerjay2005

simple answer to your questions - McClean is injured.

Blatter

homerjay2005 wrote: »

simple answer to your questions - McClean is injured.

Ah right, it's likely that he would have started Cox ahead of him regardless though.

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

I'm backed into a corner? Like I said, show me how we've been so disadvantaged over the last few tears with Trap's selections.
Anway, enjoy the match mate. At the end of the day we're both Ireland fans so no need for all the sniping. Good luck.

How can I prove what would have happened in a hypothetical situation where Trap had picked S Reid, McCarthy, Gibson or Fahey ahead of Green? Of course I can't. My argument rests on the appeal to a basic grasp of football and different players' relative abilities.

The fact remains that the other options who Green was chosen ahead of are far superior. Your denial of this simple observation is complete nonsense. It shows that you either don't pay any attention to football or are just arguing for the sake of it.

Note: I'm focusing just on the Green selection now because it is the most clear cut example of where your argument is nonsense.

Pudsy33

homerjay2005 wrote: »

simple answer to your questions - McClean is injured.

Thanks for clearing that up

LuckyLloyd

I hope the team have more heart and belief in themselves than the majority inhabiting this thread.

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road in a game that matters. We don't get beat.

celt262

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hope the team have more heart and belief in themselves than the majority inhabiting this thread.

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road in a game that matters. We don't get beat.

FAI @FAIreland
Confirmed Team: Westwood; McShane, O'Shea, O'Dea, Ward; Keogh, Meyler, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady; Walters

We will get beat :mad:

May not be the team i seen it else where but does not seem to be on twitter

GLaDOS

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road in a game that matters. We don't get beat.

Much like when we didn't lose to the top seeds at home in our last qualification campaign.

Oh, wait.

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hope the team have more heart and belief in themselves than the majority inhabiting this thread.

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road in a game that matters. We don't get beat.

Russia.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hope the team have more heart and belief in themselves than the majority inhabiting this thread.

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road in a game that matters. We don't get beat.

The last comparable game would be Russia? We got beat then.

I'm sure the team will show a lot of bravery and commitment. Irish teams always do.

Pudsy33

celt262 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I hope the team have more heart and belief in themselves than the majority inhabiting this thread.

This is Ireland in Landsdowne Road in a game that matters. We don't get beat.

FAI @FAIreland
Confirmed Team: Westwood; McShane, O'Shea, O'Dea, Ward; Keogh, Meyler, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady; Walters

We will get beat :mad:

Keogh on the wing so, sweet mother of ****

Just start long out there for **** sake he's better in all departments.

simongurnick

Pro. F wrote: »

How can I prove what would have happened in a hypothetical situation where Trap had picked S Reid, McCarthy, Gibson or Fahey ahead of Green? Of course I can't. My argument rests on the appeal to a basic grasp of football and different players' relative abilities.

The fact remains that the other options who Green was chosen ahead of are far superior. Your denial of this simple observation is complete nonsense. It shows that you either don't pay any attention to football or are just arguing for the sake of it.

Note: I'm focusing just on the Green selection now because it is the most clear cut example of where your argument is nonsense.

That's basically what i said before. It's hypothetical because Green has hardly had a look in either.
My original point still stands though, yes those players are better than Green, but by international standards they are still not great (although some have major potential.)
I just don't get as excited as others about new prospects because we've seen plenty in the past who burst on to the scene and then faded away. Liam Miller, McPhail, Sean Thornton when he was 20, even Stokes coming through the ranks at Arsenal.
To be honest man, the one selection Trap makes that I truly can't understand is Ward. How many goals has he cost us in the past six months?

celt262

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Keogh on the wing so, sweet mother of ****

Just start long out there for **** sake he's better in all departments.

I have edited my post that may not be the team.

GLaDOS

celt262 wrote: »

FAI @FAIreland
Confirmed Team: Westwood; McShane, O'Shea, O'Dea, Ward; Keogh, Meyler, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady; Walters

We will get beat :mad:

Checked there and isn't on the FAI page

celt262

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Checked there and isn't on the FAI page

Yep i seen it on another board and got fooled by it.

ollie1

This is the real team.

Ireland starting XI to face Germany - Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Ward, McCarthy, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady, Walters, Cox.

Pudsy33

Let's hope it's wrong but it seems like a Trap kinda team.

Pudsy33

ollie1 wrote: »

This is the real team.

Ireland starting XI to face Germany - Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Ward, McCarthy, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady, Walters, Cox.

Woohoo Coleman!

BeanFlicker

live now, link below:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/#!/live/37/

Neeson

Keno 92 wrote: »

Comfortable 2-0 victory for Zee Germans.

We are going to be hit by the Blitzkrieg from start to finish.

That would be a nice result. It should be more like 5 or 6 nil.

lmao

A draw would be some result looking at that team.

Pudsy33

Vary happy with Coleman starting, and with McCarthy and Fahey we have some ball players in the middle. Walters is a lump and will cause problems. Jury still out on Cox, just hope he can pull out one of his screamers tomorrow!

Francie Barrett

What a joke. Stephen "fcuking" Ward yet again? Cox on the wing? No Shane Long?

3-0 Germany for me, we don't have a fecking hope.

TaosHum

Who will be on the right for Germany, Muller or Reus?

Either way, I fear greatly for Ward.

That_Guy

Ward is going to get destroyed.

Francie Barrett

I am sure Ciaran Clark is laughing his fcuking head off at the notion that Championship failure Darren O'Dea is starting ahead of him

Rekop dog

Germany's depth is scary, you hear Lahm and Hummels miss out, but they can just draft in Schmelzer and Mertesacker, any Irish side of any era would have been huuuugee underdogs against this quality, not to mind one of our weakest in a long time with two of our experienced lads Dunne and Keane missing out.

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am sure Ciaran Clark is laughing his fcuking head off at the notion that Championship failure Darren O'Dea is starting ahead of him

To be fair I would start O Dea in this game as well. Too big a game to be thrown in at the deep end. O Dea has not let us down and performed well when asked. Give Clark a run on tuesday.

kitakyushu

Interestingly (I think?) it's our first subsequent competitive team to not feature any of our WC2002 squad/team. Truly the end of an era (and lambs to the slaughter).

Trampas

long playing great stuff and can't get ahead of cox.

i say long and clark must be thinking to himself. fk this i could have a few days rest instead coming over for this.

why does trap keep naming the team way in advance.

Francie Barrett

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair I would start O Dea in this game as well. Too big a game to be thrown in at the deep end. O Dea has not let us down and performed well when asked. Give Clark a run on tuesday.

Has O'Dea ever played a competitive game for us?

kitakyushu

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Has O'Dea ever played a competitive game for us?

He played in that defensive 'masterclass' in Moscow.

Four competitive games to date http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/player.php?id=557

Blatter

I'd imagine the German team will be something like: Neuer, Schmelzer, Mertesacker, Badstuber, Boateng, Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Podolski, Ozil, Reus, Klose

Very hard to predict though, Kroos, Goetze, Muller or Schurrle could all start. Incredible depth as said above.

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

That's basically what i said before. It's hypothetical because Green has hardly had a look in either.
My original point still stands though, yes those players are better than Green, but by international standards they are still not great (although some have major potential.)
I just don't get as excited as others about new prospects because we've seen plenty in the past who burst on to the scene and then faded away. Liam Miller, McPhail, Sean Thornton when he was 20, even Stokes coming through the ranks at Arsenal.
To be honest man, the one selection Trap makes that I truly can't understand is Ward. How many goals has he cost us in the past six months?

Green played a full game against Armenia, Andorra and Russia and a half against Slovakia in the last group. He also came on in the finals against Spain. That more than qualifies as getting a look in.

The fact that the others are not great compared to top internationals is irrelevant to my original point which is what you responded to - they are miles better than Green and would be no risk if picked ahead of him. If you wanted to make a separate, unrelated point then you shouldn't have responded to me and disagreed with what I said.

tossy

Blatter wrote: »

I'd imagine the German team will be something like: Neuer, Schmelzer, Mertesacker, Badstuber, Boateng, Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Podolski, Ozil, Reus, Klose

Very hard to predict though, Kroos, Goetze, Muller or Schurrle could all start. Incredible depth as said above.

We are screwed!

No Shane long,no Ciaran clarke,Trap is a gimp!

Idbatterim

Germany's depth is scary, you hear Lahm and Hummels miss out

injured or suspended?

Ward again, honestly?!

noodler

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Getting your knickers in a twist or what there Noodler?

Yes, 11 years as you put it........but who has being in charge for those 11 years? Our current manager and two that should never have been there(one definitely, don't think i need to tell you who).

But thats okay Noodler, go back just enough to prove you point. If you choose to take a small enough sample it will always prove a point.

That's a nice stat you pointed out. Let us come back after this campaign and see how Trap fares. Let's not forget Mick got us to 2 play-offs and a World Cup from 3 full campaigns.

And if you want to be pedantic about stats...........Mick got us to a World Cup.........Trap didn't.

Jesus Christ, we have won one game in the last 14 years against a top seed and you want to pretend like its something unique to Trap.





Am relieved at that team selection after I saw that one with Keogh and McShane. I am quite pleased.

We still have Long to come on (playing Walters was the right call for tactical reasons imo not to mention the fact we need at one striker ready to come on later in the game).

The worries of Cox on the wing aren't as big as usual:

1) This time no Duff or McClean so not a huge amount fo choice.

2) We are playing 5 in the middle and so Cox will be a less isolated and (as he is one of our reasonable technical players) will have more people around him to get and recieve the ball.

I am as pleased as I could have been with that team given whats available (bar maybe Ward). I can't remember saying that about a Trap team for quite a while.

Rekop dog

Clark has been weak for Villa this season, don't think he would add to much to the fold in this form.

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Has O'Dea ever played a competitive game for us?

As said Russia and Macedonia . Been around the squad a long time and warrants his place.

Mr.Nice Guy

I love people bitching about Ward and others playing as if any other players would have made a fucking difference.

The team selection is fine. We are rank outsiders for this one no matter what. End of story.

noodler

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Has O'Dea ever played a competitive game for us?

Yup:

Macedonia home and away in the last campaign. Didn't let anyone down - especially in the away game.

Obviously he also played very well in Moscow.

Andorra away was the other but I can't recall anything significant in that game because of the opposition.

In short, he has played very well when called upon and I am so disappointed he chose to go abroad to Toronto at his age rather than stay in at least the Championship.

Francie Barrett

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I love people bitching about Ward and others playing as if any other players would have made a fucking difference.

Mark Wilson is a clearly better player.

kitakyushu

I'll have Ward in the team purely because he reminds me of this tune everytime I see him doing his experiments at LB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWEfmCvu8R8

Roam if you want to
Roam around the world
Roam if you want to
Without wings, without wheels

Predalien

Cox on the wing is the one that gets me, he has been awful when he has played there, looks completely lost in that position. If anything I'd prefer Walters wide right and Cox up front if Trap is gonna stick with whatever petty grudge he has against Long. On another note Stephen Hunt's workrate and defensive instincts would suit this game in my opinion.

noodler

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I love people bitching about Ward and others playing as if any other players would have made a fucking difference.

The team selection is fine. We are rank outsiders for this one no matter what. End of story.

I agree.

I honestly think Ward has not done his job properly in recent games though.

People complain about McGeady, Whelan, Keane etc but I'd argue they do what they can or are told to do with the system they play.

Ward's basic defensive duties, regardless of system we use, have been suspect for a couple of games now and I really think a straight swap would have been a decent idea.

That being said, with the number of players we are missing thorugh injury and retirement (more than half the team by my count) then I understand to a degree why Trap wanted familiarity where he could get it.

noodler

Predalien wrote: »

Cox on the wing is the one that gets me, he has been awful when he has played there, looks completely lost in that position. If anything I'd prefer Walters wide right and Cox up front if Trap is gonna stick with whatever petty grudge he has against Long. On another note Stephen Hunt's workrate and defensive instincts would suit this game in my opinion.

Two things:

1) We only have two strikers available if Cox is playing out on the wing. So we could only play one, so Walters was the right choice.

2) Stephen Hunt is injured.

Francie Barrett

Predalien wrote: »

On another note Stephen Hunt's workrate and defensive instincts would suit this game in my opinion.

Long-term hip injury, but even before that he was playing with the Wolves reserves.

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree Wilson could have been a good shout but the lad has one international cap. Throwing him in at the deep end - and boy would this be the deep end - would be a massive gamble to take. In this case I can understand Trap going with a player experienced in the role who knows the system well.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Two things:

1) We only have two strikers available if Cox is playing out on the wing. So we could only play one, so Walters was the right choice.

On that point, why wasn't Noel Hunt called up? He's playing and scoring in the Prem and has already worked under Trap.

Is he another one out of favour with the manager (I'm losing track at this point)?