Republic of Ireland v Germany - 12/10/2012 - 19:45 - RTE2/SS2

Rekop dog

Any result here with the losses we've had to our side through injury/retirement recently against a team who've never lost an away WC qualifier would imo be up there with our best footballing achievements. Our chances are slim and my faith in a result of sorts is equally slim tbh.

Obv the manager will face a backlash win,lose or draw for various reasons from usual morans, who'll cite perceived better team selection as reasons for getting a result, and the more likely situation of a loss he'll face the usual rubbish with a retarded lack of awareneness of extreme superiority of the opposition and the likelihood of a negative result no matter if bloody Mourinho was at the helm. It's gonna take a few subsequent failed management reigns for people to realise what a solid job Trap has done, that he is no way holding back improvement and that we are in fact simply not very good!

LuckyLloyd

Rekop dog wrote: »

Any result here with the losses we've had to our side through injury/retirement recently against a team who've never lost an away WC qualifier would imo be up there with our best footballing achievements. Our chances are slim and my faith in a result of sorts is equally slim tbh.

Obv the manager will face a backlash win,lose or draw for various reasons from usual morans, who'll cite perceived better team selection as reasons for getting a result, and the more likely situation of a loss he'll face the usual rubbish with a retarded lack of awareneness of extreme superiority of the opposition and the likelihood of a negative result no matter if bloody Mourinho was at the helm. It's gonna take a few subsequent failed management reigns for people to realise what a solid job Trap has done, that he is no way holding back improvement and that we are in fact simply not very good!

kitakyushu

leonidas83 wrote: »

J. Charlton was a good scout, thats about it. The amount of good players we had at our disposal then & the style of football we played was a farce.

That's another myth. There's this belief in some quarters that Charlton went out and got teamfuls of ringers and new players and that's why results improved.

The team that beat England in 1988 for example, 12 out of the 16 who lined out that day were already capped by the previous manager. Charlton didn't find those players, most of them had already been internationals for years.

Awesomeness

If we get outplayed for 89 minutes and Long comes off the bench to score the winner in a 1 nil win then people will come on here saying how we didnt deserve it and Long should have started all along.

I meanwhile will be on my knees cheering and then buy a round of Irish flag shots for the bar (Just like I did in the Kazakhstan game)

noodler

Indo on O'Dea:

"he has never let the side down in an injury crisis but ten straight MLS losses is hardly ideal prep for dealing with this pacey German side".


Jesus, I had no idea Toronto were that bad. Ridiculous decision for him to go there - I really worry that the solid performances he put in last campaign are going to harder to repeat when he is plying his trade over there.

kitakyushu

They don't have 10 straight losses, but they have gone 11 without a win and are dead last.

Interestingly the run seemed to coincide almost perfectly with when O'Dea joined! : In his defense tho he appears to have only played 4 out of 10 league games since joining. Has he been injured?

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

O'Leary doesn't exactly jump at some 'mickey mouse' friendlies - fine.

Wilson, Reid, McCarthy, McClean, Stokes, etc aren't enthusiastic / professional and they get the hump - OMG THE MANAGER IS RUINING OUR BESTEST SQUAD IN A DECADE

I don't know who is saying it is the best squad in a decade, you should track them down and respond to them.

Wilson, A Reid, S Reid, McCarthy, Coleman, Gibson, Long, McClean, Stokes, Fahey and Foley.
Trap's falling out with / bad treatment / eccentric exclusion of players is far more extensive than Charlton's was.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Your position is ridiculous, but it's nothing new. Charlton was criticised during and after his reign for not letting our talent loose or playing better football. People forget so quickly what we were before 1986 - Eoin Hand turned out gifted sides that played good football and were Team Pussy Willow whenever it mattered.

Before Trapp we had just gone through a qualifying campaign that was 1970's shambolic and depressing.

Lol. Eoin Hand, who let the team manage themselves because he was so meek, and Staunton are your contrasting examples to kick and rush football. You are a hoot.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I would hotly dispute the notion that Wilson, Clarke, Coleman, McClean and Long (and whoever else people will be placing on a pedestal next month) are world beaters or better than squads we had in the 2002 and 2006 campaigns

Strawman much?

kitakyushu wrote: »

He also clashed with Keane during a US trip and "did a Foley" on Gary Waddock right before the world cup. Probably others too only we didn't have the complete media saturation back then that we have now.

I think Charlton and Trap are the same old school mould. They've no time for prima donnas and will sooner blackball them then try manage their egos like goes on at club level.

Difference I reckon is players back in the 80s wanted to be there a bit more and would put up with more abuse. I get the impression players today have already lost the novelty by about cap10 and see international football almost as an inconvenience. If everything isn't done their way then bye-bye.

I'd say if Charlton was Ireland manager today he'd probably be close to/ahead of Trap for number of players frozen out. Even the way they both had Ireland playing shows neither of them gave a damn about the fans or even the players as long as the team was getting results.

Charlton still played Keane in the USA. And lets not forget that Keane was one of the most rebellious players in Irish history.

What was the story with Waddock? Did Jack treat him quite so badly as Trap treated Foley? Did he call Waddock up to the squad, tell him he was going and then lie to the press and say he was dropping him because of injury? Genuine question, I don't remember any details.

I agree that that Trap and Charlton are cut from the same cloth, but I think Charlton was more reasonable. I can't see Trap handling McGrath the way Jack did and I don't think Jack froze out so many players and made so many odd choices.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

They don't have 10 straight losses, but they have gone 11 without a win and are dead last.

Cheers.

I don't have access to O'Dea's offers over the summer but I find it impossible to believe another Championship club at least didn't offer him a deal.

Would Toronto really be paying him that much?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/10/09/toronto_fc_paul_mariner_salary_cap/

It seemed like Darren O'Dea was this type of player, the one undeniable improvement Mariner made to the squad. Not a DP, and not an elite MLS player by any means, but a good solid defender, and a definite upgrade and one young enough to stay with Toronto for a long time. Then you see the numbers. He's on a guaranteed salary of $436,250 and realize he falls into the high priced star category,

I assume that is per year. less than 10,000 dollars a week?.

Pro. F

Rekop dog wrote: »

Obv the manager will face a backlash win,lose or draw for various reasons from usual morans, who'll cite perceived better team selection as reasons for getting a result, and the more likely situation of a loss he'll face the usual rubbish with a retarded lack of awareneness of extreme superiority of the opposition and the likelihood of a negative result no matter if bloody Mourinho was at the helm.

On this forum there has been a universal acknowledgement of the fact that Germany are far superior. If the team does get a good result or put in a good performance then of course those of us who have called for some of these players and this change in formation would be vindicated to an extent.

noodler

Pro. F wrote: »

On this forum there has been a universal acknowledgement of the fact that Germany are far superior. If the team does get a good result or put in a good performance then of course those of us who have called for some of these players and this change in formation would be vindicated to an extent.

What about the results that the other plays have achieved over the last 4 years under Trap's system?

Vindication works both ways.

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

What about the results that the other plays have achieved over the last 4 years under Trap's system?

Vindication works both ways.

Indeed it does. We have evidence of what Trap's selections and system are capable of over the last four years. I'm saying we could do better with different players and tactics.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

I assume that is per year. less than 10,000 dollars a week?.

That's big money for MLS.

MLS gives this impression that it loves paying money for old rope. That is true but only in a small number of marquee cases. The vast majority of players in that league earn $100k p/a or less.

There's about 10 guys in MLS earning salary of $1m or more per year and about 25 earning $400k or more. So O'Dea is comfortably one of the top payed players in that league.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

That's big money for MLS.

MLS gives this impression that it loves paying money for old rope. That is true but only in a small number of marquee cases. The vast majority of players in that league earn $100k p/a or less.

There's about 10 guys in MLS earning salary of $1m or more per year and about 25 earning $400k or more. So O'Dea is comfortably one of the top payed players in that league.

Yeah, he seems to be the 4th highest earner there in the Toronto team.

Assuming the money is Canadian Dollars.

Alot seem to be happy with his contribution although not for the money he is on.

clubberlang12

kitakyushu wrote: »

That's big money for MLS.

MLS gives this impression that it loves paying money for old rope. That is true but only in a small number of marquee cases. The vast majority of players in that league earn $100k p/a or less.

There's about 10 guys in MLS earning salary of $1m or more per year and about 25 earning $400k or more. So O'Dea is comfortably one of the top payed players in that league.

True. There is a wage cap but teams are allowed exceptions to their wage cap(2 or 3 nit sure) that can earn in excess of the cap per season. I think the average MLS wage is about $60,000 or there abouts.

I'm wondering whether O'Dea is being used as a selling point for drawing the ex-pats over there to the games? Former Celtic and current Irish international player would have a positive note for that.

On a side note, anyone that watches the MLS will see how poor a standard it is. Hard to compare but i would say it is sub Championship level.

Rekop dog

Pro. F wrote: »

On this forum there has been a universal acknowledgement of the fact that Germany are far superior. If the team does get a good result or put in a good performance then of course those of us who have called for some of these players and this change in formation would be vindicated to an extent.

Wrong! Making any kneejerk conclusions after a single game whatever happens would vindicate absolutetly nothing!

aidan24326

clubberlang12 wrote: »

On a side note, anyone that watches the MLS will see how poor a standard it is. Hard to compare but i would say it is sub Championship level.

You're right, in truth it's not even Championship level. The few big-name signings mask over the fact that it's a mediocre league. It's a place to go when you're in the twilight of your career and fancy a final payday, or in Darren O'Dea's case when you're maybe not much better than that level to begin with.


Anyway it's very difficult to see past a German victory tonight. I hate to be negative but they're simply a far superior side and it will be a tremendous result if we can get something out of this game.

Pro. F

Rekop dog wrote: »

Wrong! Making any kneejerk conclusions after a single game whatever happens would vindicate absolutetly nothing!

That's why I said ''to an extent.'' I wasn't advocating any knee-jerk conclusions based on one match. But each match provides some evidence.

Hulk Hands

Can't understand why people are harping back to the Charlton era as some execellent example of managing. We had one of the best teams in the world at that time and acheieved basically nothing. Previous barren years is irrelevant. That was our golden generation and Charlton cocked it up due to his style of playing and man management of players.

It also makes me laugh to hear people citing qualification for Euro 2012 as a major Trap achievement. We finished beat Slovakia and Armenia to second place, and only because Slovakia imploded. We then beat Estonia in a playoff. Anything less than qualification would've been the biggest disaster in Irish soccer history. It was no achievement

Carlos_Ray

We are probably the only team in the world that gets stronger with injury enforced changes.

That said tonight's game will be a damage limitation exercise. We are going to lose, but we have to keep the goal count down. The small chance we have of finishing second in the group could depend on goal difference.

I'm fed up with Trap's condescending rubbish now, but sadly we can't afford to get rid of him.

We'll just have to put up with another campaign of Neanderthal football because that's all our primitive little Irish brains can understand. Seeing players like McCarthy and Houlihan putting together more then two passes might blow our minds and rip a whole in the space time continuum. After tonight's game we'll go back to catching flies in our open mouths as we watch the likes of McShane and Green smash the ball down the pitch with their involuntary body movements.

I hope the FAI enjoy the attendance tonight. It will be a long time before they see the Aviva with that many people in it again.

leonidas83

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

We are probably the only team in the world that gets stronger with injury enforced changes.

That said tonight's game will be a damage limitation exercise. We are going to lose, but we have to keep the goal count down. The small chance we have of finishing second in the group could depend on goal difference.

I'm fed up with Trap's condescending rubbish now, but sadly we can't afford to get rid of him.

We'll just have to put up with another campaign of Neanderthal football because that's all our primitive little Irish brains can understand. Seeing players like McCarthy and Houlihan putting together more then two passes might blow our minds and rip a whole in the space time continuum. After tonight's game we'll go back to catching flies in our open mouths as we watch the likes of McShane and Green smash the ball down the pitch with their involuntary body movements.

I hope the FAI enjoy the attendance tonight. It will be a long time before they see the Aviva with that many people in it again.

Hup ow dat, were all part of Jackies army, were all off to Italy, & we'll really shake them up when we win the world cup cos Ireland are the greatest football team.

HUP OW DAT YA BOYOS, COME ON THE BOYS IN GREEN.

Thats what Trap & the rest of Europe think of irish supporters

Limestone1

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Can't understand why people are harping back to the Charlton era as some execellent example of managing. We had one of the best teams in the world at that time and acheieved basically nothing. Previous barren years is irrelevant. That was our golden generation and Charlton cocked it up due to his style of playing and man management of players.

It also makes me laugh to hear people citing qualification for Euro 2012 as a major Trap achievement. We finished beat Slovakia and Armenia to second place, and only because Slovakia imploded. We then beat Estonia in a playoff. Anything less than qualification would've been the biggest disaster in Irish soccer history. It was no achievement

Ha Ha ....what he said :rolleyes:

Paully D

Is it true that the last home qualifying game we lost by more than 1 goal was over 15 years ago? Thought I just heard someone say that on the radio but wasn't sure if I picked it up right.

leonidas83

Paully D wrote: »

Is it true that the last home qualifying game we lost by more than 1 goal was over 15 years ago? Thought I just heard someone say that on the radio but wasn't sure if I picked it up right.

BULL****

noodler

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

I'm fed up with Trap's condescending rubbish now, but sadly we can't afford to get rid of him.

Definitely can't!

He has earned the FAI millions with the France play-off and qualification for the Euros!

Rekop dog

Tbf Germany don't have anyone of the quality of Toni Polster! Amazed I remember that game so vividly!

kitakyushu

Paully D wrote: »

Is it true that the last home qualifying game we lost by more than 1 goal was over 15 years ago? Thought I just heard someone say that on the radio but wasn't sure if I picked it up right.

Yep. 1995: Ireland 1 Harry's Challenge 3

noodler

leonidas83 wrote: »

BULL****

?

Francie Barrett

leonidas83 wrote: »

BULL****

It's not bulsh!t, the last home qualifying game was we lost by more than 1 goal was against Austria in 1995.

Fr Tod Umptious

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It's not bulsh!t, the last home qualifying game was we lost by more than 1 goal was against Austria in 1995.

And it was a sunny Sunday afternoon, and it was bad, real bad, that's what I am so scared of there return during this campaign.

Limestone1

Pro. F wrote: »

On this forum there has been a universal acknowledgement of the fact that Germany are far superior. If the team does get a good result or put in a good performance then of course those of us who have called for some of these players and this change in formation would be vindicated to an extent.

So if we get a hiding its Trap's fault but if we do well it vindicates all those who never shut up moaning about him .............yeah that sounds about right.


Before the Russia home in the last qualifiers I've never been afraid of any team at home but the way they ripped us apart in the first half just shows that eventually our lack of quality is going to be exposed. Since then we have had similar experiences against Croatia, Spain and to a lesser extent Italy.
So yes it could happen against Germany but they are away in a qualifier, having already won away to Austria - its not do or die for them and a draw is a good result. We should be still hopeful of a draw with an organised tight performance which is what I expect from any team setup by Trap.

Pro. F

Limestone1 wrote: »

So if we get a hiding its Trap's fault but if we do well it vindicates all those who never shut up moaning about him .............yeah that sounds about right.

Reading fail.

kincsem

Paully D wrote: »

Is it true that the last home qualifying game we lost by more than 1 goal was over 15 years ago? Thought I just heard someone say that on the radio but wasn't sure if I picked it up right.

We went into the Euros with "a great defensive record", and then we leaked like a colander. I doubt the Germans will see us as hard to break down.

kincsem

All I'm looking forward to seeing tonight is Trap's nice lady translator.

kitakyushu

kincsem wrote: »

All I'm looking forward to seeing tonight is Trap's nice lady translator.

She's on some other tv show atm where she's learning to play the fiddle or some other musical instrument. You might be better off watching that.

briany

Kazakhstan playing Austria right now. They're having a go, I'll give them that. Not sure how far they'll get against a team that actually tries to play but if they do get something, it wouldn't hurt Ireland.

Nemanja91

kitakyushu wrote: »

She's on some other tv show atm where she's learning to play the fiddle or some other musical instrument. You might be better off watching that.

Shows she's good with her hands

Rekop dog

Other games going well for us so far, I'd take one of Faroes or Kazaks holding out for the draw!

kitakyushu

Rekop dog wrote: »

Other games going well for us so far, I'd take one of Faroes or Kazaks holding out for the draw!

Kazakh's have conceded injury time goals in both games so far so I think I'll just wait til full time for that scoreline.

Likewise Faroes looked ok vs Germany, but it'd be some result if they could keep 0-0.

Rekop dog

Goal Faroas

Rekop dog

Lol they're rolling around the ground faking injuries already, Gwan!!!!

Strawberry Fields

equaliser sweden

Rekop dog

Ill never utter these words again but fu Ibra

willmunny1990

I have a feeling we're going to get a good spanking tonight off the Germans and if I'm honest part of me wants it to happen, it then just might force the FA into sorting out the mess with regards the managerial situation.

SantryRed

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I have a feeling we're going to get a good spanking tonight off the Germans and if I'm honest part of me wants it to happen, it then just might force the FA into sorting out the mess with regards the managerial situation.

How is the managerial situation a mess? We're a country of 4 million people and we qualified.

I completely disagree with Trap too but there really isn't a decent reason to sack him yet.

iMuse

Germany lineup: Neuer - Boateng, Mertesacker, Badstuber, Schmelzer - Khedira, Schweinsteiger - Müller, Özil, Reus - Klose

Rekop dog

Kazakhstan not an easy place to go to eh

willmunny1990

SantryRed wrote: »

How is the managerial situation a mess? We're a country of 4 million people and we qualified.

I completely disagree with Trap too but there really isn't a decent reason to sack him yet.

He has consistently refused to pick the best team available.

That's more than enough reason to sack him at this stage.

kitakyushu

iMuse wrote: »

Germany lineup: Neuer - Boateng, Mertesacker, Badstuber, Schmelzer - Khedira, Schweinsteiger - Müller, Özil, Reus - Klose

Should be easy enough to beat :cool:

Pro. F

Rekop dog wrote: »

Kazakhstan not an easy place to go to eh

We played horrendously badly in Kazakhstan. And it was nothing to do with the opposition being good.

DenMan

Podolski should be starting in my opinion. The most in-form German striker right now. No that I'm complaining though. Come on Ireland!!!