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Waterford gives a shirt.
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Join Date:Posts: 26401
It's parish pump politics. No two ways about it. Whatever way you try to dress it up.
I've said it on the Kilkenny City & County forum so I'll say it here, first off the whole parish pump politics thing is your claim...nothing more,
Second off if it is then it also exists in every single government in every single other country in the world, you think a congressman gets voted for in the states and then does nothing that benefits his own area? Of course not! He/She would never get voted in again if they didn't do something of benefit for the locals.
Its not something specific to Ireland or Kilkenny, it happens in the UK, USA, France, etc etc.
Waterford had its benefits in the past with the likes of Martin Cullen (yeah yeah you can say he did nothing but bottom line is he did do somethings), but now perhaps its a case of voting in some TD's that have more influence and an interest in doing some real leg work other then appearing in photo ops or going onto TV3 morning shows.
Even when Waterford does get money its spending it on silly things like painting some un-needed lines on a perfectly good road and calling it a cycle route that will apparently be a big tourism benefit.
:rolleyes:
Once again though, there's no point arguing here....bottom line is if a FG TD in Waterford got something of benefit for the county or city then you wouldn't be claiming party pump politics, you'd be saying how good it is etc
Just to be clear, I didn't vote for FG or Labour in the last election so don't go swinging that silly paranoid remark around.
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I've said it on the Kilkenny City & County forum so I'll say it here, first off the whole parish pump politics thing is your claim...nothing more,
Second off if it is then it also exists in every single government in every single other country in the world, you think a congressman gets voted for in the states and then does nothing that benefits his own area? Of course not! He/She would never get voted in again if they didn't do something of benefit for the locals.
Its not something specific to Ireland or Kilkenny, it happens in the UK, USA, France, etc etc.
Waterford had its benefits in the past with the likes of Martin Cullen (yeah yeah you can say he did nothing but bottom line is he did do somethings), but now perhaps its a case of voting in some TD's that have more influence and an interest in doing some real leg work other then appearing in photo ops or going onto TV3 morning shows.
Even when Waterford does get money its spending it on silly things like painting some un-needed lines on a perfectly good road and calling it a cycle route that will apparently be a big tourism benefit.
:rolleyes:
Once again though, there's no point arguing here....bottom line is if a FG TD in Waterford got something of benefit for the county or city then you wouldn't be claiming party pump politics, you'd be saying how good it is etc
Just to be clear, I didn't vote for FG or Labour in the last election so don't go swinging that silly paranoid remark around.
My my. And you call ME paranoid?!:D
I have no problem with Hogan swinging stuff for KK As long as it doesn't affect this City. Yo seem to have no problem with it though. Are you FROM KK by any chance?0 -
Join Date:Posts: 26401
I have no problem with Hogan swinging stuff for KK As long as it doesn't affect this City.
Great so given the A&E improvements don't affect Waterford thats great.
If such changes did have an affect though does that work the other way around?, would you oppose them if they affected somewhere else?
If for example in the morning the gov decided to increase the resources in WRH and close the hospital in Kilkenny would you be against the changes/improvements/extra jobs to the WRH?
Honest answers only now please :pac:Yo seem to have no problem with it though.
Where exactly did I say I had no problem with it?...care to quote the sentence?
I pointed out that the whole parish pump politics thing is only your claim and even "if" we read into it then I gave an example that it exists throughout every government and country in the world.
Reading into it further shows the mistakes Waterford may have made when it voted for certain TD's....who have no interest in real leg work,
I never said it actually was parish pump politics though
The A&E in Kilkenny needs improvements, anyone who's ever been in it would clearly be aware of this so improvements are welcomed the same as improvements to any hospital would be as they will benefit people that use the services.....but the A&E improvements are not coming at a cost to WRH.
The A&E is far more centrally located then WRH is for people in the Carlow/Kilkenny and can even be of use to people in parts of Tipp, Laois, Wexford.0 -
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I've said it on the Kilkenny City & County forum so I'll say it here, first off the whole parish pump politics thing is your claim...nothing more,
I see you're still coming over here with your claims of paranoia.It just shows your serious lack of factual evidence. The parish punp politics has also been claimed in the national media.This is a fact. Reilly and Hogan had a meeting and the apparent result is Kilkenny was jumped ahead of more deprived areas for Primary Care facilities.This fact was put to you before and you have conveniently forgotten. I wonder why?Second off if it is then it also exists in every single government in every single other country in the world, you think a congressman gets voted for in the states and then does nothing that benefits his own area? Of course not! He/She would never get voted in again if they didn't do something of benefit for the locals.
Try reading something other than the KK people or listening to something other than KCLR. The country is experiencing the worst crisis since its establishment in 1922. It isn't business as usual. The government wa not elected to deliver Pork.It had a mandate for change and within less than two years it already is more notorious than FF and because of who? Martin Cullen?:DIts not something specific to Ireland or Kilkenny, it happens in the UK, USA, France, etc etc.
Perhaps but it is seldom as flagrant or it would be on a truley grand scale in those countries.Waterford had its benefits in the past with the likes of Martin Cullen (yeah yeah you can say he did nothing but bottom line is he did do somethings), but now perhaps its a case of voting in some TD's that have more influence and an interest in doing some real leg work other then appearing in photo ops or going onto TV3 morning shows.
Incorrect Waterford has what Kilkenny hasn't i.e. one of the states major population centres and by far the largest in the region.It is also the centre of all the major road and transport links in the region. It also the intersecting point of the most densely populated part of the region.And in the long term any long term largesse delivered to Kilkenny that was unjustified will have to be reversed and relocated to be effective and someone else in KK will be paying the price down the road. As for Ciara Conway.How the hell were we to know she was going to try and launch a media career once she got elected. This has nothing to do with anything and smacks of your desperation to try and find some relevant point.
:rolleyes:Even when Waterford does get money its spending it on silly things like painting some un-needed lines on a perfectly good road and calling it a cycle route that will apparently be a big tourism benefit.
600K. Quick tell John McGuinness.Once again though, there's no point arguing here....bottom line is if a FG TD in Waterford got something of benefit for the county or city then you wouldn't be claiming party pump politics, you'd be saying how good it is etc
Maybe or perhaps that is where "something good" should be located due to it being the best place to put it so it will benefit the most people.Just to be clear, I didn't vote for FG or Labour in the last election so don't go swinging that silly paranoid remark around.
Says you but "Big Phill looks after his own" and shafts everone else. But if North KK gets their thirty pieces of silver shure its ok.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 26401
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »Try reading something other than the KK people or listening to something other than KCLR.
Don't read the Kilkenny People as I dislike the way it reports on the rest of the county, I've not listed to KCLR or whatever it was called years ago since I was in primary school and I wanted to know if the school would be closed due to snow :pac:
You might want to stop assuming stuff about me,(Waterford) It is also the centre of all the major road and transport links in the region.
Is it?
Kilkenny has three good roads linking it to the M9, none of which have tolls
Waterford has access through the city which the council don't want truckers using, the other means of access is via a toll bridge which nobody wants to pay for. Not exactly attractive to a business wanting to setup in the IDA is it?
Waterford aiport isn't attractive and is loosing routes, it was also cheaper to fly from Dublin or Cork before these routes were lost.As for Ciara Conway.How the hell were we to know she was going to try and launch a media career once she got elected. This has nothing to do with anything and smacks of your desperation to try and find some relevant point.
I'm merely poking fun at a TD who should be actually doing some meaningful work instead she doesn't appear to be doing anything meaningful.0 -
Great so given the A&E improvements don't affect Waterford thats great.
If such changes did have an affect though does that work the other way around?, would you oppose them if they affected somewhere else?
If for example in the morning the gov decided to increase the resources in WRH and close the hospital in Kilkenny would you be against the changes/improvements/extra jobs to the WRH?
Honest answers only now please :pac:
Where exactly did I say I had no problem with it?...care to quote the sentence?
I pointed out that the whole parish pump politics thing is only your claim and even "if" we read into it then I gave an example that it exists throughout every government and country in the world.
Reading into it further shows the mistakes Waterford may have made when it voted for certain TD's....who have no interest in real leg work,
I never said it actually was parish pump politics though
The A&E in Kilkenny needs improvements, anyone who's ever been in it would clearly be aware of this so improvements are welcomed the same as improvements to any hospital would be as they will benefit people that use the services.....but the A&E improvements are not coming at a cost to WRH.
The A&E is far more centrally located then WRH is for people in the Carlow/Kilkenny and can even be of use to people in parts of Tipp, Laois, Wexford.
Have to give it to Fuzzy. He said it better than I ever could. Now, as for honest answers: are you from KK? That's a yes/no BTW.....0 -
Don't read the Kilkenny People as I dislike the way it reports on the rest of the county, I've not listed to KCLR or whatever it was called years ago since I was in primary school and I wanted to know if the school would be closed due to snow :pac:
You might want to stop assuming stuff about me,
Well Well. Parochialism is blind l as well as parochial. It's hard to believe you actually posted this. It goes to show how deeply ingrained the mindset is. I don't why I should be surprised. I have heard KK people from Urlingford complain about all the money being in the South of the County but I see the narrow thinking is not confined to a few.Is it?
Kilkenny has three good roads linking it to the M9, none of which have tolls
Waterford has access through the city which the council don't want truckers using, the other means of access is via a toll bridge which nobody wants to pay for. Not exactly attractive to a business wanting to setup in the IDA is it?
Waterford aiport isn't attractive and is loosing routes, it was also cheaper to fly from Dublin or Cork before these routes were lost.
Yes it is.Take away the toll bridge and the Airport and all the transport links and National routes between the urban centres in the region radiate from Waterford. Cork,Limerick and Dublin are connected to the city by primary routes.And the toll and airport are straw men arguements an your part.All the other Mways have two tolls and the inter urban is Waterford/Dublin.As for truckers not wanting to pay tolls.How is different than anywhere else? If anything it is a non issue compared to other places.You have a habit of ignoring inconvenient truths.
I'm merely poking fun at a TD who should be actually doing some meaningful work instead she doesn't appear to be doing anything meaningful.
Again what has it to do with anything?0 -
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One woman on a recent local radio programme who lives adjacent to te City claimed she travels to Kilkenny for her weekly shop.
And that is fine in my eyes - I see the SE region as a whole - Waterford, Kilkenny, South Tipp, Wexford and parts of Carlow, although many in North Carlow/North Wex would naturally look towards Dublin as it's much of a muchness to travel there as to any other large centre of population, and given Dublin is the capital of Ireland, stands to reason people would go there for more choice. People in West Waterford will often travel to Cork as again, there's more choice there, and it's within decent striking distance when you live near to Dungarvan/Youghal etc. You can't insist everyone travels to Waterford and Waterford alone to do their shopping, when people are to the pin of their collar and are looking to maximise their purchasing power.
I personally shop locally within the SE region, Waterford being my main centre for almost EVERYTHING, with Carrick on Suir and perhaps the odd time Clonmel thrown in for good measure. I do know a lot of people (Waterford city folks included, by the way) choose to go to KK city as to be perfectly honest, there is more choice there with regards shopping - and ease of shopping - for many. Waterford is turning into a ghost town, I guess we can all agree on that.
I really wish Waterford had the same going for it, as I rarely make the trip to Kilkenny city myself (barring taxing the car) and spend most of what little money I have in Waterford.So while much of what you say is admirable and I would be supportive of the thrust of it, please don't come on here and try to paint Waterfordians as the guilty party - there are many on both sides.
And at the root of it is those "perceived" boundaries that you claim do not exist. And I'm not a GAA supporter myself. Until people move past these then nothing will change.
This is exactly what I am saying - why are people in the SE region pointing fingers at each other instead of towards the Dail. So there are assholes on "both" sides, as you say. Fine. (Although I am still sighing at the use of "sides" at all, there should be just one side, the people of Ireland).
So ignore the minority of assholes and let the rest of us work together to make sure our region is one we can continue to have a decent life in. I get slagged all the time by Waterford folks for whatever reasons - coming over the bridge to take jobs (or menfolk!), winning the hurling, blah blah. Most of it good natured, some of it, to be honest, a little bit bitter. So what. I laugh at the good natured stuff and ignore the bitter ones. Idiots abound, best to smile and nod and move on and not let it ruffle you (I don't even follow hurling and the odd time I do pay any attention is actually when Waterford are doing well).fuzzy dunlop wrote: »It's nice to see you acknowledge that WRH is your hospital.That is the point we have been making here.I have said it here and in the Kilkenny forum that this plan with regarding hospitals is a betrayal of Waterford and Kilkenny. But the thing that puzzles me is this. Why do more Kilkenny People who post here from the South not argue this on the Kilkenny Forum? It seems for the most part that it is left to Waterford City posters to argue this on your behalf.
WRH has been, and still is, my hospital. I was born there. I have been treated there for various issues, and hope to continue to be treated there should I have any health issues arise. I do not want to see any downgrading in any shape or form. That is not in any doubt. I include myself in your "we". I do not see myself as "other". I do not define myself as South KK alone, I identify with KK, Waterford and South Tipp, as I carry out all functions of my life in this part of the country.
The reason I personally post in Waterford city forum and not KK (and if you check back through my posts you'll probably see that I don't post often in general, and when I do, it's always to waterford and not to kilkenny) is that to be perfectly honest, Waterford IS my centre of interest, it always was growing up, I used to love coming home to it on the bus from college in Dublin and seeing the lights on the quays as we came through Sallypark, I lived here for years, and while I don't live in the actual city anymore, I still view it as my city (and I have a lot of family living there) and am as concerned about what is happening to it as any Waterford person.
Heck, when I moved back out to South KK a few years ago, I watched the elections in Waterford with more interest than that of KK/Carlow, as I knew the candidates there and knew which ones I hoped would get in, and I had to go off and find out about the KK/Carlow candidates before elections came round (and I did not vote for Hogan).
I don't purport to speak for all of South KK, but I think you'll find that virtually everyone living in South KK does not want to see WRH or any health service in Waterford stripped away, as most of us would be patients of WRH (or Whitfield, or users of the Solas centre, Cheshire homes, etc). Everyone in South KK would be delighted to see WIT do well, as it means they or their kids might not have to leave the region to get educated (as I did at the time). Everyone in South KK would love to see businesses thrive in Waterford, as it would mean more jobs for everyone, more choice for everyone, and a city centre that was not deserted most of the week. County boundaries mean nothing, in my eyes.
This does not mean, by the way, that I am not happy to see St Lukes get any funding, even though I have never once used their services. I am happy to see any hospital getting much needed funding. Healthcare in this country is a shambles and the HSE are mismanaging at every step, so any funding that gets to frontline services is a big bonus in my view.0 -
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And that is fine in my eyes - I see the SE region as a whole - Waterford, Kilkenny, South Tipp, Wexford and parts of Carlow, although many in North Carlow/North Wex would naturally look towards Dublin as it's much of a muchness to travel there as to any other large centre of population, and given Dublin is the capital of Ireland, stands to reason people would go there for more choice. People in West Waterford will often travel to Cork as again, there's more choice there, and it's within decent striking distance when you live near to Dungarvan/Youghal etc. You can't insist everyone travels to Waterford and Waterford alone to do their shopping, when people are to the pin of their collar and are looking to maximise their purchasing power.
I personally shop locally within the SE region, Waterford being my main centre for almost EVERYTHING, with Carrick on Suir and perhaps the odd time Clonmel thrown in for good measure. I do know a lot of people (Waterford city folks included, by the way) choose to go to KK city as to be perfectly honest, there is more choice there with regards shopping - and ease of shopping - for many. Waterford is turning into a ghost town, I guess we can all agree on that.
I really wish Waterford had the same going for it, as I rarely make the trip to Kilkenny city myself (barring taxing the car) and spend most of what little money I have in Waterford.
This is exactly what I am saying - why are people in the SE region pointing fingers at each other instead of towards the Dail. So there are assholes on "both" sides, as you say. Fine. (Although I am still sighing at the use of "sides" at all, there should be just one side, the people of Ireland).
So ignore the minority of assholes and let the rest of us work together to make sure our region is one we can continue to have a decent life in. I get slagged all the time by Waterford folks for whatever reasons - coming over the bridge to take jobs (or menfolk!), winning the hurling, blah blah. Most of it good natured, some of it, to be honest, a little bit bitter. So what. I laugh at the good natured stuff and ignore the bitter ones. Idiots abound, best to smile and nod and move on and not let it ruffle you (I don't even follow hurling and the odd time I do pay any attention is actually when Waterford are doing well).
WRH has been, and still is, my hospital. I was born there. I have been treated there for various issues, and hope to continue to be treated there should I have any health issues arise. I do not want to see any downgrading in any shape or form. That is not in any doubt. I include myself in your "we". I do not see myself as "other". I do not define myself as South KK alone, I identify with KK, Waterford and South Tipp, as I carry out all functions of my life in this part of the country.
The reason I personally post in Waterford city forum and not KK (and if you check back through my posts you'll probably see that I don't post often in general, and when I do, it's always to waterford and not to kilkenny) is that to be perfectly honest, Waterford IS my centre of interest, it always was growing up, I used to love coming home to it on the bus from college in Dublin and seeing the lights on the quays as we came through Sallypark, I lived here for years, and while I don't live in the actual city anymore, I still view it as my city (and I have a lot of family living there) and am as concerned about what is happening to it as any Waterford person.
Heck, when I moved back out to South KK a few years ago, I watched the elections in Waterford with more interest than that of KK/Carlow, as I knew the candidates there and knew which ones I hoped would get in, and I had to go off and find out about the KK/Carlow candidates before elections came round (and I did not vote for Hogan).
I don't purport to speak for all of South KK, but I think you'll find that virtually everyone living in South KK does not want to see WRH or any health service in Waterford stripped away, as most of us would be patients of WRH (or Whitfield, or users of the Solas centre, Cheshire homes, etc). Everyone in South KK would be delighted to see WIT do well, as it means they or their kids might not have to leave the region to get educated (as I did at the time). Everyone in South KK would love to see businesses thrive in Waterford, as it would mean more jobs for everyone, more choice for everyone, and a city centre that was not deserted most of the week. County boundaries mean nothing, in my eyes.
This does not mean, by the way, that I am not happy to see St Lukes get any funding, even though I have never once used their services. I am happy to see any hospital getting much needed funding. Healthcare in this country is a shambles and the HSE are mismanaging at every step, so any funding that gets to frontline services is a big bonus in my view.
Echosound we're not talking about shopping.Nobody is denying anybodies right to shop where they want.We're talking about Regional Services in Health and Education and Investment in Jobs.we're also not talking about hurling or slagging which goes on everywhere. We're talking about balanced regional debvelopment and provision of sevices. That is what Waterford Gives a shirt is about and all the other things you are bringing into it are straw men arguements. So yes the shopping might be better in Dublin but so what.The fact remains for the entire region it is more convenient to use Waterford for necessary services than Cork and Dublin.That is a fact.Carlow might be equidistant from Dublin and Waterford but when it comes to acess to a major hospital Waterford wins hands dowm. And anyone who says otherwise is frankly lying. The New Ross standard is fully aware of this as there front page this week proves.But the fact remains if South KK;s strategic interests lie with Waterford it is up to the people there to fight for it and support the efforts. Also on the topic of representation itself there is also no comparison between Phil Hogan and any of the Waterford TD;s when it comes to divisive behaviour. Hogan has regularly critizcized previous governments and the IDA for focusing on Waterford which is by extension South Kilkenny for investment. He also seems to insist that any protests when he visits Waterford is due to the fact he is a Kilkenny man which is Bulls1t and highly inapropriate.I wonder what his excuse for being booed in Nowlan Park was, He is the personificatioon of Bull McCabe politics in Ireland. And again it is only the SKK voter can really change this.0 -
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And that is fine in my eyes - I see the SE region as a whole - Waterford, Kilkenny, South Tipp, Wexford and parts of Carlow, although many in North Carlow/North Wex would naturally look towards Dublin as it's much of a muchness to travel there as to any other large centre of population, and given Dublin is the capital of Ireland, stands to reason people would go there for more choice. People in West Waterford will often travel to Cork as again, there's more choice there, and it's within decent striking distance when you live near to Dungarvan/Youghal etc. You can't insist everyone travels to Waterford and Waterford alone to do their shopping, when people are to the pin of their collar and are looking to maximise their purchasing power.
I personally shop locally within the SE region, Waterford being my main centre for almost EVERYTHING, with Carrick on Suir and perhaps the odd time Clonmel thrown in for good measure. I do know a lot of people (Waterford city folks included, by the way) choose to go to KK city as to be perfectly honest, there is more choice there with regards shopping - and ease of shopping - for many. Waterford is turning into a ghost town, I guess we can all agree on that.
I really wish Waterford had the same going for it, as I rarely make the trip to Kilkenny city myself (barring taxing the car) and spend most of what little money I have in Waterford.
This is exactly what I am saying - why are people in the SE region pointing fingers at each other instead of towards the Dail. So there are assholes on "both" sides, as you say. Fine. (Although I am still sighing at the use of "sides" at all, there should be just one side, the people of Ireland).
So ignore the minority of assholes and let the rest of us work together to make sure our region is one we can continue to have a decent life in. I get slagged all the time by Waterford folks for whatever reasons - coming over the bridge to take jobs (or menfolk!), winning the hurling, blah blah. Most of it good natured, some of it, to be honest, a little bit bitter. So what. I laugh at the good natured stuff and ignore the bitter ones. Idiots abound, best to smile and nod and move on and not let it ruffle you (I don't even follow hurling and the odd time I do pay any attention is actually when Waterford are doing well).
WRH has been, and still is, my hospital. I was born there. I have been treated there for various issues, and hope to continue to be treated there should I have any health issues arise. I do not want to see any downgrading in any shape or form. That is not in any doubt. I include myself in your "we". I do not see myself as "other". I do not define myself as South KK alone, I identify with KK, Waterford and South Tipp, as I carry out all functions of my life in this part of the country.
The reason I personally post in Waterford city forum and not KK (and if you check back through my posts you'll probably see that I don't post often in general, and when I do, it's always to waterford and not to kilkenny) is that to be perfectly honest, Waterford IS my centre of interest, it always was growing up, I used to love coming home to it on the bus from college in Dublin and seeing the lights on the quays as we came through Sallypark, I lived here for years, and while I don't live in the actual city anymore, I still view it as my city (and I have a lot of family living there) and am as concerned about what is happening to it as any Waterford person.
Heck, when I moved back out to South KK a few years ago, I watched the elections in Waterford with more interest than that of KK/Carlow, as I knew the candidates there and knew which ones I hoped would get in, and I had to go off and find out about the KK/Carlow candidates before elections came round (and I did not vote for Hogan).
I don't purport to speak for all of South KK, but I think you'll find that virtually everyone living in South KK does not want to see WRH or any health service in Waterford stripped away, as most of us would be patients of WRH (or Whitfield, or users of the Solas centre, Cheshire homes, etc). Everyone in South KK would be delighted to see WIT do well, as it means they or their kids might not have to leave the region to get educated (as I did at the time). Everyone in South KK would love to see businesses thrive in Waterford, as it would mean more jobs for everyone, more choice for everyone, and a city centre that was not deserted most of the week. County boundaries mean nothing, in my eyes.
This does not mean, by the way, that I am not happy to see St Lukes get any funding, even though I have never once used their services. I am happy to see any hospital getting much needed funding. Healthcare in this country is a shambles and the HSE are mismanaging at every step, so any funding that gets to frontline services is a big bonus in my view.
A very good post, most of which I agree with. Just to clarify the whole GAA thing though:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/protesters-march-over-border-move-241540.html
Seriously though, a woman travelling to Kilkenny (50Km away) because she hates Waterford? While YOU may shop locally this woman is a case in point.
You say County boundaries mean nothing in your eyes - but many of your south KK brethern would espouse a far darker, different viewpoint. A minorty of assholes? In Utopia maybe.0 -
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