Waterford gives a shirt.

danjo-xx

If the city council is abolished or amalgamated with co co, financially who will benefit most, city or county.

Professey Chin

danjo-xx wrote: »

If the city council is abolished or amalgamated with co co, financially who will benefit most, city or county.

County. Theyre running a huge deficit

Sully

jo06555 wrote: »

Sorry but he is! Iv never heard his name bein used in a positive way for anything, all I see and hear of him lately is of him upgrading Kilkenny while trying to downsize Waterford . Same old s##t from this government and our tds do nothing to stop it , the only time I hear of them on wlr is if they can catch hold of some good news story coming out in the city as usual and take credit . I'm lucky to have a job but I feel for all the unemployed in Waterford with a government like this .. it's going to be a long road getting Waterford back to the good old times

I think he is surrounded by negativity because of his position in government. He is responsible for the household charge and the septic tank charge. Both of those have caused huge controversy because of their nature (who wants extra taxation) and how they have been implemented.

The whole stuff about upgrading KK and downgrading Waterford is horse****e. Some Waterford people have this automatic hatred towards Kilkenny and fear that because they have a Minister (a powerful one) and Waterford doesn't than we are obviously doomed. A lot of what was being suggested has been proven to be false, in terms of what folk feel about his position towards Waterford.

bradknowell

Meh I love Kilkenny. Waterfords deadly aswell

wellboytoo

Sully cop on, and stop digging, Phil has no time for Waterford you know that, I do not subscribe that his antipathy towards Waterford is driving this hatchet job he is doing on the City at the moment.
But this will be the undoing of this Government, this is the tax on shoes of this government! if you are old enough to remember that, this will get a head of steam over the next few months both locally and nationally and you have one of the least diplomatic men in cabinet (excluding Pat Rabbitte) to handle it and he will drop the ball in a big way.

Your blind defense of FG is frankly becoming a bit embarrassing, they had a huge mandate for change in the election and they have not used it, simples.
Deasy is a waste of a seat I am sad to say as I had hopes he would rise above his Fathers antics but alas, sit on the back benches and carp is all he is good for.
Paudie is a nice man.

decies

Am embarrassed to have voted for Deasy possibly the biggest let down of a politician in the whole country . He should step down and let someone else have a go.

ComfyKnickers

Cabaal wrote: »

Merging city and county councils doesn't mean that the place doesn't have to be known as Waterford City, seems alot of people are just being paranoid

I totally agree with you! They are merging Councils all over the country, it's not just Waterford. How in the name of God can merging Councils mean that Waterford is not a city anymore? Sure if it was that simple then the age old argument about whether or not Kilkenny is a city would be answered very easily with a "no" because it has a "County" Council and not a "City" council!

I'm a Waterford person born and bred but I think the amount of whinging that is going on about this is just ridiculous. The same people all the time seem to love to moan - oh poor us here in Waterford, we've no university, we've no shops, we've no jobs, we're never featured on tv programmes about Ireland's cities etc etc and now we're losing our City status! Says who? They are merging the organisations that run the City and County in a cost cutting measure - end of story! At the end of the day, the only change to us as individuals will probably be where we apply for our motor tax and bin tags!!! :rolleyes:

Hijpo

ComfyKnickers wrote: »

I totally agree with you! They are merging Councils all over the country, it's not just Waterford. How in the name of God can merging Councils mean that Waterford is not a city anymore? Sure if it was that simple then the age old argument about whether or not Kilkenny is a city would be answered very easily with a "no" because it has a "County" Council and not a "City" council!

I'm a Waterford person born and bred but I think the amount of whinging that is going on about this is just ridiculous. The same people all the time seem to love to moan - oh poor us here in Waterford, we've no university, we've no shops, we've no jobs, we're never featured on tv programmes about Ireland's cities etc etc and now we're losing our City status! Says who? They are merging the organisations that run the City and County in a cost cutting measure - end of story! At the end of the day, the only change to us as individuals will probably be where we apply for our motor tax and bin tags!!! :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity, will not having a city council impact on our ability to secure funding, jobs or any other means that will help move the city out of the rut its in?

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Out of curiosity, will not having a city council impact on our ability to secure funding, jobs or any other means that will help move the city out of the rut its in?

I fail to see what difference it will make. Instead of two bodies looking after Waterford, its the one. One strong united voice. I don't understand this theory that somehow businesses will overlook Waterford because it doesn't have either its own Independent City or County Council.

Surely businesses wouldn't take much heed on this and have more interest in the skill set available, access to main roads, access to main airports and so on?

Psychedelic

What effect has the city council had on attracting businesses here, that a new merged Council wouldn't have? Waterford is already being overlooked for investment with a city council in place.

Another thing to remember is businesses don't pick a location purely on whether is is a city or whether it has a city council, as seen by the number of businesses who locate in rural areas and small towns. Would a business really give a crap whether Waterford's council is called a City Council or Municipal Council?

Is Tramore no longer a town because it won't have a town council? Is it being downgraded to village status?

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

Sully cop on, and stop digging, Phil has no time for Waterford you know that, I do not subscribe that his antipathy towards Waterford is driving this hatchet job he is doing on the City at the moment.
But this will be the undoing of this Government, this is the tax on shoes of this government! if you are old enough to remember that, this will get a head of steam over the next few months both locally and nationally and you have one of the least diplomatic men in cabinet (excluding Pat Rabbitte) to handle it and he will drop the ball in a big way.

Your blind defense of FG is frankly becoming a bit embarrassing, they had a huge mandate for change in the election and they have not used it, simples.
Deasy is a waste of a seat I am sad to say as I had hopes he would rise above his Fathers antics but alas, sit on the back benches and carp is all he is good for.
Paudie is a nice man.

Well said.:)

Professey Chin

Sully wrote: »

I fail to see what difference it will make. Instead of two bodies looking after Waterford, its the one. One strong united voice. I don't understand this theory that somehow businesses will overlook Waterford because it doesn't have either its own Independent City or County Council.

"One strong united voice". Bullsh1t. It will be the east fighting the west over what goes what direction the way it's always been except now they're using the same pool of money. It's already started when the report suggests meetings alternating between them instead of having a focused capital. Give me one piece of evidence that makes you believe the merger will put a stop to the division.

Junior

Sully wrote: »

I fail to see what difference it will make. Instead of two bodies looking after Waterford, its the one. One strong united voice. I don't understand this theory that somehow businesses will overlook Waterford because it doesn't have either its own Independent City or County Council.

Surely businesses wouldn't take much heed on this and have more interest in the skill set available, access to main roads, access to main airports and so on?

Sully at this stage if Phil Hogan said he was moving WIT to Paulstown I'd expect you to agree with it.

Trotter

Have to say its frustrating to see people I know who are members of FG and Labour retreat into a very odd position where they seem not to see the wood for the trees here in this situation. I suspect they know full well but speaking evil of their party is a core no-no. Being a member of any organisation is something that brings people together and its not unusual to see what Im reluctant to call a 'blind defence' of their own organisation's position at any cost.

I'm not alligned to any political party at all.. and Im as centre as the politicial compass will allow.. but it is just frustrating to hear and see people Ive known for years in my own home area put their backs to the wall and tell me how Hogan isnt a bad fella and that I'm imagining things.

The party before all system that we have in Ireland is the cause of far more negativity than positivity. Sometimes loyalty isnt the answer.

Yes Boss

Trotter wrote: »

Have to say its frustrating to see people I know who are members of FG and Labour retreat into a very odd position where they seem not to see the wood for the trees here in this situation. I suspect they know full well but speaking evil of their party is a core no-no. Being a member of any organisation is something that brings people together and its not unusual to see what Im reluctant to call a 'blind defence' of their own organisation's position at any cost.

I'm not alligned to any political party at all.. and Im as centre as the politicial compass will allow.. but it is just frustrating to hear and see people Ive known for years in my own home area put their backs to the wall and tell me how Hogan isnt a bad fella and that I'm imagining things.

The party before all system that we have in Ireland is the cause of far more negativity than positivity. Sometimes loyalty isnt the answer.

I could not have put it any better myself. There is something morally wrong with blindly defending a situation. I honestly believe it is a character flaw.

Why are we unable to opening discuss the situation including the benefits and the negatives without one side becoming intransigent. The political culture here in Ireland is ignorant beyond belief...

Sully

Trotter wrote: »

Have to say its frustrating to see people I know who are members of FG and Labour retreat into a very odd position where they seem not to see the wood for the trees here in this situation. I suspect they know full well but speaking evil of their party is a core no-no. Being a member of any organisation is something that brings people together and its not unusual to see what Im reluctant to call a 'blind defence' of their own organisation's position at any cost.

I'm not alligned to any political party at all.. and Im as centre as the politicial compass will allow.. but it is just frustrating to hear and see people Ive known for years in my own home area put their backs to the wall and tell me how Hogan isnt a bad fella and that I'm imagining things.

The party before all system that we have in Ireland is the cause of far more negativity than positivity. Sometimes loyalty isnt the answer.

I'm a member of Fine Gael. I have spoken out against Fine Gael on many occasions, and on Phil Hogan. That whole mentality of 'If your a member of a political organisation, you wont see any other viewpoint' is bull**** and offensive. The whole 'Oh he doesn't agree with me, he must be a FG/Lab supporter' is also bull**** - people have differences of opinions without being party bound.

There is absolutely nothing in the proposal to suggest we will lose our City Status - a claim that is constantly being made. There is nothing to suggest in the proposal that Phil Hogan has it in for Waterford - a claim that is constantly being made. Others that go down that road and make those silly claims are the ones not seeing the wood from the trees. A lot of people are not researching it - they are buying into the claim without a seconds thought.

If Phil Hogan said "No Waterford, you wont be a City by name OR have the powers/benefits of a City" than I wont say "Arah, sure Phil & FG are doing the right thing". But nobody has said that, not even a hint.

Instead we lost the ability to have two independent separate administrations for City & County and people are up in arms like its the end of the world and they are making stuff up, adding legs to the story and so on. We didn't always have two separate councils and we got on just fine before.

wellboytoo

Originally Posted by Hijpo
Out of curiosity, will not having a city council impact on our ability to secure funding, jobs or any other means that will help move the city out of the rut its in?

Sully wrote: »

I fail to see what difference it will make. Instead of two bodies looking after Waterford, its the one. One strong united voice. I don't understand this theory that somehow businesses will overlook Waterford because it doesn't have either its own Independent City or County Council.

Surely businesses wouldn't take much heed on this and have more interest in the skill set available, access to main roads, access to main airports and so on?

Are you seriously saying that when they merge the two Enterprise boards they will give them the same budget, Ditto with the area partnership and leader, Arts , etc, give me a break, there will be the usual "due to synergies and cost saving with the merged body we are cutting " Blah blah .

Trotter

Sully wrote: »

I'm a member of Fine Gael. I have spoken out against Fine Gael on many occasions, and on Phil Hogan. That whole mentality of 'If your a member of a political organisation, you wont see any other viewpoint' is bull**** and offensive. The whole 'Oh he doesn't agree with me, he must be a FG/Lab supporter' is also bull**** - people have differences of opinions without being party bound.

There is absolutely nothing in the proposal to suggest we will lose our City Status - a claim that is constantly being made. There is nothing to suggest in the proposal that Phil Hogan has it in for Waterford - a claim that is constantly being made. Others that go down that road and make those silly claims are the ones not seeing the wood from the trees. A lot of people are not researching it - they are buying into the claim without a seconds thought.

If Phil Hogan said "No Waterford, you wont be a City by name OR have the powers/benefits of a City" than I wont say "Arah, sure Phil & FG are doing the right thing". But nobody has said that, not even a hint.

Instead we lost the ability to have two independent separate administrations for City & County and people are up in arms like its the end of the world and they are making stuff up, adding legs to the story and so on. We didn't always have two separate councils and we got on just fine before.

I certainly don't mean to offend, and Im certainly not personalising the issue against yourself. I didnt say that once someone is a member of a party, they wont see any other viewpoint. What I am saying is that I do know people who are involved or sympathetic to FG and Labour. I am saying I am disappointed at their attitude which I believe reflects a party before all else point of view.

I do believe that there are agendas at play at the top which are systematically excluding Waterford. I believe these agendas come from other regions having more TD's that are influential than our region. That is why we have been disregarded since Martin Cullen's departure. I hate the system in the country that provides an area with what they need and beyond once they have a minister. We gained at times from that, and we are now suffering for it also.

Ive no interest in personalising here. Ive a lot of respect for Sully and those I know personally who are involved in FG/Lab.
Sully - You have personally done more for Waterford than most politicians and proved your motivation to do your best for your home area above and beyond the call of duty.. and in that regard I just don't see how you see this issue differently to me.

I'd reiterate though that the silence from our TD's on this matter is hugely concerning. I've only seen 1 statement on the matter from Paudie Coffey. I disagree with the idea that the amalgamation isnt a one sided anti Waterford and Limerick stunt. It is. This government is pro Galway, Cork and Dublin because they are the core influences of the government.

And in reality, I have my doubts that Phil Hogan would lose any sleep over the destructive nature of this government's treatment of Waterford. Ive seen nothing from him that would indicate he has any respect for the people of my city.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

I'm a member of Fine Gael. I have spoken out against Fine Gael on many occasions, and on Phil Hogan. That whole mentality of 'If your a member of a political organisation, you wont see any other viewpoint' is bull**** and offensive. The whole 'Oh he doesn't agree with me, he must be a FG/Lab supporter' is also bull**** - people have differences of opinions without being party bound.

There is absolutely nothing in the proposal to suggest we will lose our City Status - a claim that is constantly being made. There is nothing to suggest in the proposal that Phil Hogan has it in for Waterford - a claim that is constantly being made. Others that go down that road and make those silly claims are the ones not seeing the wood from the trees. A lot of people are not researching it - they are buying into the claim without a seconds thought.

If Phil Hogan said "No Waterford, you wont be a City by name OR have the powers/benefits of a City" than I wont say "Arah, sure Phil & FG are doing the right thing". But nobody has said that, not even a hint.

Instead we lost the ability to have two independent separate administrations for City & County and people are up in arms like its the end of the world and they are making stuff up, adding legs to the story and so on. We didn't always have two separate councils and we got on just fine before.

Sully - just to clarify things: people are offended when you and people like you attempt to dress up this attack on Waterford City as being in the City's "best interests". You apparently think this is fine - most other people don't. And, yes, your loyalty to Fine Gael comes across to a lot of people as pure craziness.

Putting a political party hell bent on undermining Waterford before the City itself. This is not a personal attack on you. But lending support to this craziness - and defending it - will bring the wrath of the populace upon you. You need to get your head around this. If it were Fianna Fail/SF/etc and it was another poster people would be equally up in arms - and rightly so.

Phil Hogan's feelings towards Waterford are there for all to see. This is not paranoia. The opening of a library in the disused Ferrybank centre (technically in KK, but for all intents and purposes in Waterford City) is testimony to this. A million Euro worth of taxpayer's money squandered when one of the best Public Libraries is a bus ride away in Waterford City Centre.

If you find people's reactions offensive then you just have to learn that it comes with the territory.

The Citizens of Waterford city have had enough. We have watched successive Governments promise the sun, moon and stars, then not deliver. This FG-lead Government is no different to what preceded it.

We have watched bankers bailed out by FF, with Labour promising 'not one red cent' to bondholders - only to see this promise evaporate in a puff of smoke.

We have watched FG promise full University status for Waterford only to renege on it when they gained power.

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

We now look at a Kilkenny Minister with a very obvious agenda attempt to undermine this City and its status - not just the status of the City but its status within the country itself.

You criticise people in the post above for being critical of those in FG/Lab (or who support them) and then publicly admit you are a member of the FG party.

And you wonder why people are up in arms?

7upfree

Trotter wrote: »

The party before all system that we have in Ireland is the cause of far more negativity than positivity. Sometimes loyalty isnt the answer.

I think this is the core issue in Ireland at the minute. FFS even FF are back up to 21% in today's polls. Who'd take bets they'll be at 25% after the budget? And especially after the Household charge debacle this week (I know of two families where deceased spouses received bills as well as the surviving spouse - it was very upsetting for them).

Hogan is stumbling from one crisis to another - and alienating tens of thousands of voters in the process.

As mentioned in post no.76 above, the political culture here in Ireland is ignorant beyond belief.

CantGetNoSleep

What do we expect when we elect politicians like that one that shows up to smile for a picture when a few hundred people lose their job and talk about Demi Moore's love life on TV3?

The next election will be interesting. Labour will be decimated. FG won't be far behind. Halligan is a shoe-in.

We are going to be in a stage where we will have FF/SF/FG all around equal, plus a lot of independents or other far left groups. We could very easily have a SF government supported by ULA.

While this presents a slight worry for the country as a whole, it is encouraging for Waterford we might have some politicians taking the thumb out of their hole and speaking up a bit.

O Riain

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

What do we expect when we elect politicians like that one that shows up to smile for a picture when a few hundred people lose their job and talk about Demi Moore's love life on TV3?

The next election will be interesting. Labour will be decimated. FG won't be far behind. Halligan is a shoe-in.

We are going to be in a stage where we will have FF/SF/FG all around equal, plus a lot of independents or other far left groups. We could very easily have a SF government supported by ULA.

While this presents a slight worry for the country as a whole, it is encouraging for Waterford we might have some politicians taking the thumb out of their hole and speaking up a bit.

What do we expect when we elect politicians who are teachers. The leader of our country is a secondary school teach ffs. It is insane.

Cabaal

O Riain wrote: »

What do we expect when we elect politicians who are teachers. The leader of our country is a secondary school teach ffs. It is insane.

I'm assuming you want people with law degree's instead like Obama - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Perhaps somebody who used to work in the oil industry and part owned a baseball team like Bush - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

Perhaps somebody who tried to be a rock music promoter but later got into law like Blair - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair

Maybe a employed directly first as a councillor for court of auditors like François Hollande - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Hollande

So based on examples around the world, I'm guessing you'd be happy with someone who perhaps worked in law?

You could of course argue that a teacher might just be better suited for the job more then average joe soap on the street, teachers are likely far better educated.

O Riain

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm assuming you want people with law degree's instead like Obama - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Perhaps somebody who used to work in the oil industry and part owned a baseball team like Bush - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

Perhaps somebody who tried to be a rock music promoter but later got into law like Blair - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair

Maybe a employed directly first as a councillor for court of auditors like François Hollande - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Hollande

So based on examples around the world, I'm guessing you'd be happy with someone who perhaps worked in law?

You could of course argue that a teacher might just be better suited for the job more then average joe soap on the street, teachers are likely far better educated.

Are you seriously joking me? I would expect each minister to at least have an honours degree that relates to the department they are heading. If they are minister for justice for example then I would expect a law degree yes. I do not consider a higher diploma in education to be sufficient to run a country, I'm not saying someone like a teacher doesnt have the brains to run a country, I'm just saying there should be an education boundary. Otherwise you end up with gombeens like Phil Hogan in very important positions who obviously just do not have a clue.

Cabaal

O Riain wrote: »

Are you seriously joking me? I would expect each minister to at least have an honours degree that relates to the department they are heading. If they are minister for justice for example then I would expect a law degree yes. I do not consider a higher diploma in education to be sufficient to run a country, I'm not saying someone like a teacher doesnt have the brains to run a country, I'm just saying there should be an education boundary. Otherwise you end up with gombeens like Phil Hogan in very important positions who obviously just do not have a clue.

Considering if you look at most of the leaders worldwide the most they have is a degree in law you are really hoping for far too much.

For example, to ensure that the minister for transport has a degree related to transport you'd have to advertise the position as an actual job, otherwise you'd have about a 1 in a million chance of it being filled by somebody elected.

If your going to turn TD positions into jobs then we might as well not have any elections in this country.

Perhaps you'd prefer a dictatorship or something similar?

You are forgetting that a TD doesn't just do everything themselves, they have departments and numerous people in these departments with all sorts of degree's and qualifications and they will advise the TD. These civil servants are not aligned to any specific party.

Psychedelic

Just to lighten things up a bit, did anyone see the front page of this week's News & Star? Headline is "Neighbours from hell" for some anti-social article and it has a picture of Phil Hogan grinning above.

O Riain

Cabaal wrote: »

Considering if you look at most of the leaders worldwide the most they have is a degree in law you are really hoping for far too much.

For example, to ensure that the minister for transport has a degree related to transport you'd have to advertise the position as an actual job, otherwise you'd have about a 1 in a million chance of it being filled by somebody elected.

If your going to turn TD positions into jobs then we might as well not have any elections in this country.

Perhaps you'd prefer a dictatorship or something similar?

You are forgetting that a TD doesn't just do everything themselves, they have departments and numerous people in these departments with all sorts of degree's and qualifications and they will advise the TD. These civil servants are not aligned to any specific party.

Yes I understand that they have advisors but would you not feel safer in knowing that the man or woman who has the final say on the matter is actually clued into what is being decided on. Even going further what's the need for politicians then if its the advisors who make the decisions. Lastly maybe they should be treated like jobs, with FULL accountability, after all politicians have run this country into the ground and are awarded with a generous pension for doing an atrocious job whereas in a "real job" you'd have got your P45 long before.

7upfree

Cabaal wrote: »

You could of course argue that a teacher might just be better suited for the job more then average joe soap on the street, teachers are likely far better educated.

Far better educated? So that makes them more intelligent?

Hard to believe that you posted that. There are many people who do not possess degrees that outperform those with them. It is a fact of life.

The problem with Government - as always - is that the senior Civil Servants run the show. Governments come and go - they are the opposite. Ever-present. And can't be sacked. Whether or not people have a degree or not is not the issue - but how they have performed in the real world of business. A case in point would be Michael O'Leary. Much as one may dislike him, it is people like him who need to run the country. And until the country is run like a private business (i.e. outgoings cannot exceed income) we will sink deeper into the financial mire, risking the future for generations to come.

7upfree

Psychedelic wrote: »

Just to lighten things up a bit, did anyone see the front page of this week's News & Star? Headline is "Neighbours from hell" for some anti-social article and it has a picture of Phil Hogan grinning above.

Yeah, saw that one. Very funny!

Cabaal

7upfree wrote: »

Far better educated? So that makes them more intelligent?

Yes in most cases yes,
Those that go onto third level are likely to be more intelligent, unless of course you think only dumb as feck people manage to complete degree's?

Hard to believe that you posted that. There are many people who do not possess degrees that outperform those with them. It is a fact of life.

Its amusing when people bitch and moan that TD's are teachers or farmers and now you are saying that people without degree's can be smarter....surely by that logic farmers are perfectly fine? After all who's to say that they don't know more then somebody with a degree, by that reasoning who's to say that Enda isn't suitable for the job even if he just was a teacher before?

There's no pleasing you people, on one hand you want people with experience but now you yourself are saying they don't need any college or university experience and life experience can be far far better.

Make up your minds

The problem with Government - as always - is that the senior Civil Servants run the show. Governments come and go - they are the opposite. Ever-present. And can't be sacked.

Ah ok, i get you.
So all the times you bitch about Enda or FG and how Sully defends FG you don't actually mean it? As you've said yourself the civil servants run the show....

Again, you need to make up your mind here, are you blaming the party in power like you've been doing in numerous threads here or are you blaming the civil servants?? :pac:

And until the country is run like a private business (i.e. outgoings cannot exceed income) we will sink deeper into the financial mire, risking the future for generations to come.

ah ok, so you want the government run like a business...makes sense to me.

Lets look at some of the outgoings, lets see we got the social welfare billl...thats pretty high, child welfare thats part of it too, perhaps we should cut them in some way and stop people getting them in certain situations?

Oh wait, every time the government trys anything with them people will bitch and moan,

What about other stuff like...oh I don't know merging councils to save on overlapping staff, oh wait people bitch and moan about that too.

It seems the government is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Just can't make you people happy