Waterford gives a shirt.

wellboy76

jmcc wrote: »

So, Sully,
As an FG propagandist do you advocate targeting every government councillor and TD (if they can be found)?

Regards...jmcc

I would be considering my position as a mod on boards too sully. You can delete this if you like but we are NOT spreading any rumours. You're conduct here and your propaganda on Facebook is utterly biased towards Fg. Of course you wouldn't agree with what were trying to do when this city is being torn apart from every angle.

Sully

jmcc wrote: »

So, Sully,
As an FG propagandist do you advocate targeting every government councillor and TD (if they can be found) and making the issue clear to them and explaining how their political careers will be ended if they don't resolve this matter?

Regards...jmcc

I don't understand the question at all. What issue? What matter needs to be resolved? If its the merger of the councils, there is broad welcome for this even from those in opposition (in Waterford also).

People seem to be forgetting that it wasn't Phil Hogan that made up the whole plan to strip Waterford of two councils, but a report by Waterford business leaders which recommended such and said it would be better for Waterford.

Whether it will or not, remains to be seen. Some feel it will, some feel it wont. I accept that opinion and concern.

wellboy76 wrote: »

I would be considering my position as a mod on boards too sully. You can delete this if you like but we are NOT spreading any rumours. You're conduct here and your propaganda on Facebook is utterly biased towards Fg. Of course you wouldn't agree with what were trying to do when this city is being torn apart from every angle.

What exactly has my position as a moderator got to do with my views on politics and political decisions regarding Waterford? When has my moderation came into it? I don't moderate such threads, I get the other mods to do it because I could be seen as making moderation choices that are based on pushing a particular agenda. Even in non-political threads I have done this. Its common practice right across Boards. The mind boggles.

Indeed it is spreading rumours to say that our City is being downgraded to a Town and will no longer hold a City Status. Some suggestions even said that we would be a Historical City like Kilkenny - ie a City by name, but absolutely no benefits of being a City. That is not a fact.

Welcome to Boards.ie. An online discussion forum where people will have different views and different opinions where they thrash them all out into a big discussion. I don't agree with the assertions made by this campaign, and its not politically motivated. Even if my political views were the reasoning for me not supporting this campaign - its my personal view, my personal right and I won't have anybody tell me what I can and can not have an opinion on.

The proof is in the history of my views on various issues. Fine Gael, if you recall, are pushing a household tax and I am not in favour. I have openly spoken out against this unfair and badly timed tax. Sure, Fianna Fail brought it in under the EU/IMF agreement but we seem to have made concessions in other areas - why not this? But Fine Gael keep pushing, keep insisting its going ahead, and Phil Hogan leads the way in what can only be said to have been a PR disaster and was simply embarrassing. Even the way Water Charges were brought in. What a mess.

Fine Gael might very well be in favour of implementing the report which we believe will see our Regional Hospital downgraded. Fine Gael can come out tomorrow and state its happening, for X Y and Z reasons. Sorry guys, but I wont stand over this. I was at the protest today, I am and have donated designs towards the campaign through my business and I have offered the campaign any assistance I can give them. Even though its heaping negativity on the Fine Gael party.

So to suggest that my views are politically motivated and that I somehow am putting Politics ahead of our great historical City is absolutely bull**** and is just people clutching at straws.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

What exactly has my position as a moderator got to do with my views on politics and political decisions regarding Waterford? When has my moderation came into it? I don't moderate such threads,

On another thread in which you are participating you switched to mod mode, issuing warnings, blah, blah. As has been said above you are both a Fine Gael propagandist and apologist.

You have also stated that you are a member of the Fine Gael Party.

Now, if these don't represent a conflict of interest I don't know know what does.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

So to suggest that my views are politically motivated and that I somehow am putting Politics ahead of our great historical City is absolutely bull**** and is just people clutching at straws.

Lol!:D

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

On another thread in which you are participating you switched to mod mode, issuing warnings, blah, blah. As has been said above you are both a Fine Gael propagandist and apologist.

You have also stated that you are a member of the Fine Gael Party.

Now, if these don't represent a conflict of interest I don't know know what does.

By all means, if you believe my political views have impacted on moderation - report it. I couldn't give two hoots, but you seem to be obsessed with me going around following me just to bash Fine Gael and try twist my wording to suggest some ulterior motive! But you don't seem to want to take it a step further and ask for a CMod to look over my moderation as you seem to feel its politically motivated.

Chiparus

I feel you are showing your political affiliation on this thread and on the other thread, quite obviously.

I had not known your political orientation and was quite taken back by your response to one of my posts on the other thread. I followed up my post with a series of PMs to you.

If you are a moderator, moderate but do not allow your political opinion to interfere with it.

Sully

Chiparus wrote: »

I feel you are showing your political affiliation on this thread and on the other thread, quite obviously.

I had not known your political orientation and was quite taken back by your response to one of my posts on the other thread. I followed up my post with a series of PMs to you.

If you are a moderator, moderate but do not allow your political opinion to interfere with it.

I think I already proved the case that politics doesn't influence my line of thinking.

And again, unless you have a specific example of where my political opinion came into it - then I fail to see how I am not doing moderation completely.

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

I think I already proved the case that politics doesn't influence my line of thinking.

And again, unless you have a specific example of where my political opinion came into it - then I fail to see how I am not doing moderation completely.

Yes you are right, everyone else is wrong ( again)

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

By all means, if you believe my political views have impacted on moderation - report it. I couldn't give two hoots, but you seem to be obsessed with me going around following me just to bash Fine Gael and try twist my wording to suggest some ulterior motive! But you don't seem to want to take it a step further and ask for a CMod to look over my moderation as you seem to feel its politically motivated.

Have you stopped to think for a minute that its the other way around? Several others - myself included - have pointed out this conflict of interests to you. Do the decent thing.

Sully

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes you are right, everyone else is wrong ( again)

7upfree wrote: »

Have you stopped to think for a minute that its the other way around? Several others - myself included - have pointed out this conflict of interests to you. Do the decent thing.

If I am wrong, just prove it. I think I have kept my moderation unbiased and fair, you think otherwise. So do something about it. Why accuse me of something if you cant back it up and then rant about how I insist I am right and you are wrong?

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

I think I already proved the case that politics doesn't influence my line of thinking.

And again, unless you have a specific example of where my political opinion came into it - then I fail to see how I am not doing moderation completely.

Example? You are defending this FG-led Government at every opportunity to the detriment of this City. But you've been found out. The game is well and truly up.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

If I am wrong, just prove it. I think I have kept my moderation unbiased and fair, you think otherwise. So do something about it. Why accuse me of something if you cant back it up and then rant about how I insist I am right and you are wrong?

Sully, seriously man - stop digging. Please.

jmcc

Sully wrote: »

I don't understand the question at all. What issue? What matter needs to be resolved?

The proposed downgrading of the hospital issue, obviously.

And as for this report from "Waterford business leaders", who were they and are they known associates of Fine Gael? What businesses do they lead? Are they really from Waterford? Surely Waterford has a right to know.

Regards...jmcc

Trotter

Question for anyone who thinks this merger is a good idea..

Do you think that given the already shifty influence of people with the right nod and wink in Dublin, Cork and Galway.. that Waterford will get within an asses roar of investment which is directed by government, of IDA attention, or of services that could be situated here or moved elsewhere?

If the merger makes no difference to city status, tell me why it isnt happening to Cork or Galway?

I'll tell ya what I think and you can fix my tinfoil hat if necessary. I think the government think they can only afford to maintain 3 main cities and they have more friends to keep happy in Dublin, Cork and Galway than they have in Waterford.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

Example? You are defending this FG-led Government at every opportunity to the detriment of this City. But you've been found out. The game is well and truly up.

Since when was I in favour of downgrading WRH?!?!?!

7upfree wrote: »

Sully, seriously man - stop digging. Please.

Is that your best reply?!?

Sully

Trotter wrote: »

Question for anyone who thinks this merger is a good idea..

Do you think that given the already shifty influence of people with the right nod and wink in Dublin, Cork and Galway.. that Waterford will get within an asses roar of investment which is directed by government, of IDA attention, or of services that could be situated here or moved elsewhere?

If the merger makes no difference to city status, tell me why it isnt happening to Cork or Galway?

I'll tell ya what I think and you can fix my tinfoil hat if necessary. I think the government think they can only afford to maintain 3 main cities and they have more friends to keep happy in Dublin, Cork and Galway than they have in Waterford.

I'm still undecided on the merger. The No side just claim its a loss of control, loss of independence and throw in stuff about City status being lost, mayor roll being lost and an odd one about the court house being moved. The Yes side are saying its a financial saving, will make things more efficient, cut down on bloat and will help the smaller cities manage better than they currently are.

The report, which was put together with local business persons, suggested it was a good idea for Waterford as the two bodies were not doing very well as it was. Which is true. Waterford has gone to the dogs and our immediate blame is with the government (past and present). But what about our local government? Are they not somewhere or somehow at fault? Does having two separate councils really make that much of a difference for the running of county's? We complain about backyard politics, but loved it (and cry for it now) when we had this under Fianna Fail.

ART6

While I admire the people behind this campaign for their efforts, I can't see it working. It is just one of many issues affecting the South East, such as the threatened downgrading of WRH, the continual failure to provide any meaningful support for Waterford regional airport when small fortunes have been spent on others, the total shambles of the city and county's waste disposal facilities, the many years that it took to get a second bridge over the river to divert commercial traffic from the inadequate roads of the city centre. Small-scale protests like this seem to spring up all the time, each devoted to one issue. The local one against the Household Tax seems to have fizzled out, for example.

What I would dearly love to see is a national campaign, perhaps organised with regional committees, that could bring out into the open the public dissatisfaction with the performance of the government and holding incompetent and untruthful ministers to account. So a demand for the dismissal of Hogan for his shambolic handling of his brief and his bullying approach over the household tax, septic tank charges, and water charges that simply cannot be applied in Ireland by the metering upon which he seems to have tied his hat without any idea of whether or not it's even possible or what it would cost (cost doesn't matter because we will simply increase the charges). At no point did he ever say to the EU that their demands for those controls and taxes were inappropriate for Ireland as we are not a Club Med country. He can bully his own employers, but cannot stand up for them! Big Phill indeed!

Equally a demand for the dismissal of James Reilly for busily making an even greater mess of the health service than even Mary Harney managed, and this is likely to be demonstrated in the case of Waterford Regional Hospital -- I remember when it was simply Ardkeen hospital that couldn't even look after the people of the city, never mind the county. Is that where we are now headed?. I recall reading recently of a woman with severely disabled child who had her carer support hours cut from two hours per week (Dear God!) to one. Meanwhile, our noble leader spent €30,000 on flying in the government jet to collect a golden Oscar and be praised for ensuring that the French and Germans would not have to bail out their own banks. How many of support hours would that have purchased for that woman?

I would like to see the dismissal of Noonan for his utter failure to stand up to the banks that the taxpayers were forced to nationalise without any say in the matter. His inability to control their outrageous pay packets and bonuses when as their owners and employers it would even be reasonable to consider dismissing a number of their senior staff for gross incompetence and re-advertising their jobs at realistic salaries, linked to civil service pay scales since the new incumbents would effectively be civil servants, at least until we can sell our banks to some international investors who are not paying attention. In a public limited company, the shareholders can vote a director off the board an every annual general meeting. Why can't we? Oh! We can do it every five years can we in Ireland plc? Bit late then!

The point that I am making is that all of these local protests will get us nowhere. We (although not me thank God because for once I could see this coming!) elected a coalition with an overwhelming majority. They can now claim a mandate and can defend it for the next few years even though the people never gave them any mandate to do so many of the things that they have done or to withdraw from the things they said they would do. The people in their innocence believed the lies and promises of the politicians who didn't have the honesty to say "This is where we are, and this is what we should do." It is the principle of leadership. Mr. Gilmore, consider? Where are your Labour principles now? Mr. Kenny, when you have finished polishing your Oscar, would you please pay attention to Joe who employs you? You do not have the mandate that you claim.

I would point to the protests that accompanied the "government's" attempt to remove medical card entitlement from the elderly. That was a national campaign, not a local and isolated one in Waterford or Kilkenny or Galway. So bring all of these protests together, with a carefully written agenda and make it plain to the politicians that they may consider that they have a mandate, but that they are still subject to the will of the people. They are administrators, not dictators. They are employees, not bosses.

Will that happen? Not a hope in Hell. You fine people who fought so long to be a "Nations once again" have allowed your soul, your future, and your children's future to be sold by those who you thought would represent you.

This is not just about Waterford, It is about Ireland.

Trotter

Sully wrote: »

Are they not somewhere or somehow at fault? Does having two separate councils really make that much of a difference for the running of county's? We complain about backyard politics, but loved it (and cry for it now) when we had this under Fianna Fail.

I think that there are certain important things that our city council have no control over and cannot be blamed for.

The main one is inward regional investment. I believe we won't see the likes of Genzyme coming in here again because it'd be blocked by TD's and other influential people in counties other than our own.

If this merger was happening in Galway and Cork I'd have no bother with it to be honest. It isnt. They are our competitors for international investment. We can all have lovely thoughts about the place buzzing with indiginous SMEs but that will not happen here in the next 10 years, especially if the big fish are being handed out to Cork, Galway and Dublin!

You say we complain about backyard politics, but loved it (and cry for it now) when we had this under Fianna Fail? Back up that truck for a start. I didnt. I want and have always wanted a list system for the Dáil along with a strong local government for the local stuff. That way services and investment would be directed where they were needed, and not where 'my pal Paddy' lives; the 6 figure man who will be annoyed if I send this company to Waterford.

I reject the accusation that we all loved it. We did not. Maybe you did, but I did not.

We have a backyard system in this country. We work within the system until we have the cop on to elect people who will change the system and throw out those who promised they would reform it and didnt. Thats you FG/LAB.. equally as dishonest and power hungry as the last shower.

Until we have a better system than the parish pump, we need to realise that this merger is another example of the road to the Galway and Cork parish pump being paved with opportunity while we sit here and poke holes at irrelevant party loving councillers.

This merger puts us in another league of the game of Irish life. That game involves diverting as much of the goodies to your own pump, or covering your ass to divert it to the pump of the cronies you rely on to keep you at the top.

Waterford will not be in the top league once we're relegated below Cork and Galway, and ya know what? Theres no f'n playoff next year for us to go back up.

So I support the anti-merger campaign because it represents us being up there with the big boys and not happily taking our medicine and accepting a pat on the back from a party hack cllr next time theres an election as a sign of feckin progress.

/breathe out.. find scones..

Sully

Cant see Ireland ever moving away from parish pump politics. Its very much alive and well. If its changed, TDs will be voted out.

Hoffmans

was yer wan roche talkin of boycotting the rally cause no one gave a shirt about her campaign to stop the joining of the city and county councils?

Trotter

Sully wrote: »

Cant see Ireland ever moving away from parish pump politics. Its very much alive and well. If its changed, TDs will be voted out.

Well then why would anyone stand over their own parish being pulled back so that the Galway and Cork parishes can attempt to excel at our expense? Thats what Waterford Gives a Shirt is about! Thats what the city status campaign is about!

Call us Waterford Village for all I care once the American man with the plan and the cash is shown around Cork Village and Galway Village by an unbiased IDA rep with his phone off to stop TDs ringing him!

Hoffmans wrote: »

was yer wan roche talkin of boycotting the rally cause no one gave a shirt about her campaign to stop the joining of the city and county councils?

Have you a link to that or where did it come from at all?

Sully

Hoffmans wrote: »

was yer wan roche talkin of boycotting the rally cause no one gave a shirt about her campaign to stop the joining of the city and county councils?

Where did you hear that? The Waterford Gives A Shirt campaign was setup for that purpose. She may have been offended she didn't get asked to speak at this protest, but the organisers refused as they didn't want it political.

Trotter wrote: »

Well then why would anyone stand over their own parish being pulled back so that the Galway and Cork parishes can attempt to excel at our expense? Thats what Waterford Gives a Shirt is about! Thats what the city status campaign is about!

Call us Waterford Village for all I care once the American man with the plan and the cash is shown around Cork Village and Galway Village by an unbiased IDA rep with his phone off to stop TDs ringing him!

Because they don't feel that this change will do that. That's why. I see their point and I see the point that it may hamper it also. I just cant see how not having two independent councils will make a difference to us. I really cant get my head around that at all.

Is it Waterford people want to invest in or is it our council structure?

I'd prefer not to keep knocking Waterford Gives a Shirt, because I have huge respect for Cian and have done for years. I encouraged him to do this, and I was delighted he did. But then when it became an obsession on Phil Hogan and our City Status, I couldn't support it. Not because of Fine Gael or Phil Hogan, I couldn't give a monkeys what they propose. If I don't agree with them, tough. If I do, tough. If the report suggested our councils be left alone, and the government moved with it anyway - then id be rightly pissed.

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

Cant see Ireland ever moving away from parish pump politics. Its very much alive and well. If its changed, TDs will be voted out.

Yes and no , several FF ministers were apoplectic when voted out e.g. John O'Donoghue despite playing the parish pump game to the max.

I doubt Martin Cullen would have been re-elected either.

Trotter

Sully wrote: »

I just cant see how not having two independent councils will make a difference to us. I really cant get my head around that at all.

Now we're at the crux of it. I have ya by the town halls now Sully The difference is simply that it relegates us below the 2 main competing counties because we are not being merged as part of an overall strategy. We are being merged in order to A) "Save money" (I dont believe it will... another day's argument) and To directly or indirectly strengthen Cork and Galway because their TDs and influential people are far more important to this government than ours.

Do what they like to Waterford, but do it to our competitors too. You're standing over a decision that puts us in the league below our competitors. Like I said.. merge away. But do it across the board, because merging Waterford and not Cork/Galway kills this city off, even if City is still hanging over the door!

If you think that this is not a sign of Waterford being officially relegated behind Cork and Galway in an attempt to strengthen those regions at our expense, Im all out of ideas to change your boggled mind. :P

7upfree

Trotter wrote: »

Now we're at the crux of it. I have ya by the town halls now Sully The difference is simply that it relegates us below the 2 main competing counties because we are not being merged as part of an overall strategy. We are being merged in order to A) "Save money" (I dont believe it will... another day's argument) and To directly or indirectly strengthen Cork and Galway because their TDs and influential people are far more important to this government than ours.

Do what they like to Waterford, but do it to our competitors too. You're standing over a decision that puts us in the league below our competitors. Like I said.. merge away. But do it across the board, because merging Waterford and not Cork/Galway kills this city off, even if City is still hanging over the door!

If you think that this is not a sign of Waterford being officially relegated behind Cork and Galway in an attempt to strengthen those regions at our expense, Im all out of ideas to change your boggled mind. :P

In one. I think it's labelled discrimination in the real world. Sully waffles on with his usual politicospeak about "hard working politicians", "behind the scenes" blah blah.

What people want is for THEIR views - not Fine Gael's/their TDs/hacks/asskissers to be heard.

For a TD to stand up and call this for what it is - politically-based parish pump politics (your terminology Sully) at work to the detriment of Waterford City - which is TOTALLY unacceptable to all of us. And BTW Sully - wake up to the fact that we would still have - in effect - two administrative centres in Waterford City and Dungarvan town - with Council meetings being alternated between both> Seriously - cost-saving measures? My ass.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Is that your best reply?!?

You asked for reality Sully - that's it in your case. Defending the indefensible.

That's the wonderful thing about the Internet. There is nowhere for these cretins - and their "supporters" - to hide anymore.

Sully

Trotter wrote: »

Now we're at the crux of it. I have ya by the town halls now Sully The difference is simply that it relegates us below the 2 main competing counties because we are not being merged as part of an overall strategy. We are being merged in order to A) "Save money" (I dont believe it will... another day's argument) and To directly or indirectly strengthen Cork and Galway because their TDs and influential people are far more important to this government than ours.

Do you think that local businesses, who were on the committee that made the recommendation, did this to just save money and put us on the back pedal? A reminder of some of those who compiled the report... Mr Frank O’Regan (Vice President, Global Operations, Bausch & Lomb) and Ms. Louise Grubb (Managing Director, NutriScience). Its chaired by a local man, Mr. Sean Aylward (former Secretary General, Department of
Justice, Equality and Law Reform).

Advantages of this merger, as identified in the report, include strong local leadership, more cohesive economic and social development, enhanced public service coordination and integration, better and more efficient staffing arrangements and financial savings.

Do what they like to Waterford, but do it to our competitors too. You're standing over a decision that puts us in the league below our competitors. Like I said.. merge away. But do it across the board, because merging Waterford and not Cork/Galway kills this city off, even if City is still hanging over the door!

They seemed to be suggestions that due to their higher population, it was needed.

If you think that this is not a sign of Waterford being officially relegated behind Cork and Galway in an attempt to strengthen those regions at our expense, Im all out of ideas to change your boggled mind. :P

I don't, sorry. I see your point though, and I do understand where you are coming from. I probably would lean in your favour if it wasn't recommended by an Independent body. None of our local reps in the Dail, afaik, are objecting to this.

7upfree

Trotter wrote: »

Question for anyone who thinks this merger is a good idea..

Do you think that given the already shifty influence of people with the right nod and wink in Dublin, Cork and Galway.. that Waterford will get within an asses roar of investment which is directed by government, of IDA attention, or of services that could be situated here or moved elsewhere?

If the merger makes no difference to city status, tell me why it isnt happening to Cork or Galway?

I'll tell ya what I think and you can fix my tinfoil hat if necessary. I think the government think they can only afford to maintain 3 main cities and they have more friends to keep happy in Dublin, Cork and Galway than they have in Waterford.

That agenda has been running for years. It burst to the surface when Waterford was excluded from the "Creedon's Cities" series on RTE - what seemed like a minor thing to some people was an indication of things to come.

The Greens were the main proponents of it. All of their propaganda usually mentioned Dublin, Cork, and Galway. FG/"Labour" are merely perpetuating it.

Wanderer2010

Em..shouldnt the role of the moderator be just to come in now and again when things are getting abusive/heated between members on the forum threads? Why is a thread about a support campaign for Waterford filled with so much debate about the views of a moderator....

Trotter

When that report was written Sully, do you think the committee was aware it would be for Waterford only and not the competing regions?