Waterford gives a shirt.

KevIRL

fricatus wrote: »

They're being delivered symbolically to the government for publicity, but WGAS is not just going to fcuk off afterwards and leave their litter on Kildare Street for the council to clear up.

The whole intention is that the shirts will then be given to a charity or charities, who can then use them just like any other clothing collection charity would.

Makes sense completely.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Numerous reports suggested it (along with most other reforms he did) in addition to Cork and Galway. He went ahead, skipping Cork and Galway. I don't fully grasp why, but I don't believe its to damage Waterford anyway.

That begs the subsequent question: if it isn't going to do any harm, then why not Cork and Galway also?

ART6

Jason Todd wrote: »

They said on Facebook that it was unclear if it was 50k or not but that it didn't matter as they were close enough. They are now looking for suggestions on what to do with the shirts.

I have already made my suggestions of what to do with the shirts when they meet "Big Phil" Hogan and "Doctor of Doom" Reilly to at least one of the organisers. Unfortunately my suggestion was rejected as anatomically impossible.

Meanwhile, the turnout demonstrates one inescapable fact: There are something like 5 millions of us and 160 of them. We, the people, do not have to bend our knees the THE LAW that they enacted to serve their own interests and those of their European paymasters. Keep it up, you people of Ireland!

Hijpo

7upfree wrote: »

That begs the subsequent question: if it isn't going to do any harm, then why not Cork and Galway also?

also if there was nothing to gain from having city status why was phil hogan trying to get kilkenny status upgraded?

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

also if there was nothing to gain from having city status why was phil hogan trying to get kilkenny status upgraded?

Well said. In one.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

also if there was nothing to gain from having city status why was phil hogan trying to get kilkenny status upgraded?

Who said anything about there being nothing to gain from a City status? The Phil Hogan thing is years old and is well documented. Kilkenny had been calling itself a City but the new legislation didn't give it rights to do so any further and Phil wanted it upgraded. It was refused, but they were allowed continue to call themselves a City without having full legal City status. The legislation was updated to state this.

There appears to be no mention of this since, even during the reports and announcements in regards to the local government reform. If Phil was to upgrade Kilkenny, this would have been the time to include it.

Its also worth noting that he said in the Dail that Waterford will remain a City and will still have a Mayor. He claimed there was "misinformation" in regards to the loss of the City Status. In particular;

There will be no change in the status of Waterford city and Deputy Halligan will have his mayor. I know the Deputy is not a public representative who would be articulating what others are saying but there are local representatives who got off to a bad start in regard to clarifying those issues. I am glad to clarify them now for Deputy Halligan. As a distinguished former mayor of Waterford city, I know he will be anxious to keep the traditions, the history and the status of Waterford city, and that will happen.

It is not the intention of anybody to demote any place, particularly Waterford.

When directly asked about needing a City Council to be a City, he responded by stating;

Waterford city, in the context of the arrangements we have made for local government, will have its city status.

Source: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012102300010?opendocument

As far as I am concerned, its a non-issue. Waterford was, is and will remain a City. But, I do see the concerns about a possibility that Galway will be better off because it has two councils where as Waterford will have only one.

My personal view in regards to that was that it was felt that smaller areas don't need two councils and larger areas did, in terms of administration of services and so on. It was also felt, not by Phil Hogan alone, that Waterfords two councils were not working very well and the merger would be beneficial.

I don't think it will make the world of difference in terms of state funding or investment from companies because I have never heard or seen anything which indicated that they look first to see that they have a large administration.

Just my view though and I know others disagree.

Hijpo

I just figured that if there is nothing to gain and nothing to lose from having city status, why was phil trying to get kilkenny upgraded? if everyone knew it as kilkenny city then why not leave it as is. if there is something to gain by upgrading then there i something to be lost by downgrading, thats all.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

I just figured that if there is nothing to gain and nothing to lose from having city status, why was phil trying to get kilkenny upgraded? if everyone knew it as kilkenny city then why not leave it as is. if there is something to gain by upgrading then there i something to be lost by downgrading, thats all.

I assume there are advantages to being a City? Don't know the ins and outs

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

I just figured that if there is nothing to gain and nothing to lose from having city status, why was phil trying to get kilkenny upgraded? if everyone knew it as kilkenny city then why not leave it as is. if there is something to gain by upgrading then there i something to be lost by downgrading, thats all.

That's about it. For all the toing and froing the real issue is why were Waterford and Limerick singled out - when a "report" recommended the same happen in Galway & Cork.? No-one would have a problem then.

People - rightly - feel betrayed. By BOTH Government parties and their "representatives".

Dunmoreroader

I feel betrayed by all of the parties who have been in sucessive governments going back years. Waterford's slide down the league table has been under the stewardship of FF, PD, Greens, Democratic Left FG & Lab.(Have I left anyone out?)
The only reason Cullen got anything for Waterford was he went on typical senior ministerial solo-runs to include Waterford in whatever pie was being divvied up at Cabinet(just like the current lot), not because of carefully thought out FF/A.N.Other policies of equitable regional development.
Remember the original launch of the NDP when motorways to Belfast, Galway, Limerick & Cork were announced, until Cullen got the M9 included.
ad to say, but we're a political lightweight with just 4 TDs. We need regional cross-party support not all this local squabbling.
The abolition of the South East regional Authority by Hogan might be as damaging as the city/council merger but it's slipping under the radar.
How can you agitate for regional services or for Waterford as a Regional Capital if no region exists?
What about a new political movement; The Southeastern Party?

fricatus

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

The abolition of the South East regional Authority by Hogan might be as damaging as the city/council merger but it's slipping under the radar.
How can you agitate for regional services or for Waterford as a Regional Capital if no region exists?

Well quite...

The new regional structure that Hogan is proposing mirrors the Dublin/Cork/Galway model that appears to be the de facto National Spatial Strategy!

It makes no sense though. How can Wexford and Kerry be said to be part of the same region? Note also that each of these three regions only has one city each (as in a city that actually has a council).

The regions that we have (as defined by the eight regional authorities) are fine. We just need to resource the weaker ones, and maybe put in place certain structures to take account of Dublin's importance/dominance.

Being in a region dominated by Cork will lead to Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford being very peripheral indeed! And as Carlow will be in the Dublin region, it means that Minister Hogan's constituency will be split across two regions! What the hell kind of way to organise a country is this?

"Putting People First" me brown eye!!! :mad:

ART6

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I feel betrayed by all of the parties who have been in sucessive governments going back years. Waterford's slide down the league table has been under the stewardship of FF, PD, Greens, Democratic Left FG & Lab.(Have I left anyone out?)
The only reason Cullen got anything for Waterford was he went on typical senior ministerial solo-runs to include Waterford in whatever pie was being divvied up at Cabinet(just like the current lot), not because of carefully thought out FF/A.N.Other policies of equitable regional development.
Remember the original launch of the NDP when motorways to Belfast, Galway, Limerick & Cork were announced, until Cullen got the M9 included.
ad to say, but we're a political lightweight with just 4 TDs. We need regional cross-party support not all this local squabbling.
The abolition of the South East regional Authority by Hogan might be as damaging as the city/council merger but it's slipping under the radar.
How can you agitate for regional services or for Waterford as a Regional Capital if no region exists?
What about a new political movement; The Southeastern Party?

It's not just the South East. The people of Ireland have been betrayed by successive governments and political parties. I don't know if Hogan has it in for Waterford, although I am quite prepared to believe that he would sacrify us if it suited his grand plan somewhere else.

This, I'm afraid, is Irish politics. Place in the cabinet people who are cunning but stupid and incompetent. People who can put their own career before the needs of the people who elected them, like one Kenny spending €30,000 of our money going to collect a gold Oscar from the grateful EU, an Oscar that was awarded for continuing to convert bank debt into sovereign debt so that the French and German governments didn't have to do that.

There was a media story at the time of a woman who had a severely disabled child, for which she obtained a whole two hours a week of professional care. That was summarily reduced to one hour per week in the interests of cost savings (by bloody answerphone for God's sake!). How many hours of care for that woman would the parasitic Kenny's trip have paid for? Something like 2000 hours at current rates -- nineteen years if her entitlement had been preserved at two hours per week. Do we really have to look at the media photographs of that distraught woman's face and then, on the next page, see the vacuous grin of Kenny as he accepts the award for being "European of the Year"?

Oh, I forgot. He combined the trip with meetings with the leaders of other member states. So that is alright then. But what were they talking about, for how long? For what purpose? Too complex for you people to understand. Just do as you are told.

For health reasons (my wife is critical and needs constant nursing care) I can't take part in protests, but by all of the gods, I would like to do much more than protest!

Finnbar01

If only we could get rid of politics this country would be a great place. I guess we have to many lobbyists, rent seekers and special interests groups going on.

Sully

Finnbar01 wrote: »

If only we could get rid of politics this country would be a great place. I guess we have to many lobbyists, rent seekers and special interests groups going on.

Every country needs politics. Politics is a way of life. How else would things get done without them? Who would invest money for the Viking Triangle in Waterford? Who would invest money for our Flood Relief scheme? Who would invest money into Carriaganore and WIT? Who would have built the motorway to Waterford?

That's all due to politics and political choices. We elected people to represent us at government level. Some of these politicians are given power to make choices in particular areas that are for the benefit of the country or the individual area the choice was made for.

But, Politics does have its flaws everywhere. Ireland is crying out for political reform and its at such a slow pace. Some countries have no democracy and fight for it. Ireland has democracy and some don't give a toss, they just sit back and moan. We have government TDs that get less speaking time and rights than opposition TDs in the same county (Paudie, John, and Ciara get little speaking time compared with Halligan). We have Government Ministers who look after their own constituency to get re-elected (Waterford had its day, briefly).

TDs have little say - they can shout, campaign, lobby and moan all they like but its not their choice at the end of the day. People don't seem to know that's how politics works and expect TDs to be bringing in huge investments into their area in terms of jobs and infrastructure. That is partly why there is a disconnect in Irish politics but also because government are making bottom up calls over the preferred top down approach. Also, I don't feel TDs (and councilors) communicate very well with their constituents about achievements in their area since the election and what work is being done behind the scenes.

Cabaal

Finnbar01 wrote: »

If only we could get rid of politics this country would be a great place.

What was it Churchill said?, something along the lines of

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others.....

Its true, we bitch and moan about how things are run but yet if we look around no other style works any better...some are even much much worse! But as much as some people bitch and moan about stuff these same people often don't even use their voice when it comes to elections or matters that need voting on.....as far as I'm concerned these people have no voice to bitch the rest of the time as they didn't use their voice when it really mattered.

Those that look at other government styles or country's often look at them with rose tinted glasses forgetting any of the failings or issues that the people actually living in the country in question experience.

I will say that saying this country would be a great place without politics is with all due respect a silly thing to say, a country without politics of some sort, government and laws would be an insane free for all.

On the other hand a country with too much politics can also be a insane place to live,

I remember visiting Haiti a number of years ago and explaining Ireland's history to a local (he did ask )....he listen to the part when I explained the amount of political partys Ireland has and how they came about and he just laughed and went on to explain Haiti had around 30+ partys all wanting different things it was hard for anyone to agree on anything...he commented on how much better it would be of the country had less of them.

wellboy76

Jason Todd wrote: »

They said on Facebook that it was unclear if it was 50k or not but that it didn't matter as they were close enough. They are now looking for suggestions on what to do with the shirts.

All proceeds from sale of shirts (however big or small) will be going to waterford hospice

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Every country needs politics.

Every country needs efficient, uncorrupt, politics. Not the nod and wink shambles we have here. Along with the overbloated Public sector numbers and wages.

No-one goes into politics without seeing what's in it for them. If they didn't, you wouldn't have the gravy train that is the Oireachtas today.

What's needed is a cull. One TD should be enough for a county the size of Waterford. There should be no more than 50 TDs in the Dail..........and as for that BS talking shop the Senate.....

Chiparus

7upfree wrote: »

Every country needs efficient, uncorrupt, politics. Not the nod and wink shambles we have here. Along with the overbloated Public sector numbers and wages.

No-one goes into politics without seeing what's in it for them. If they didn't, you wouldn't have the gravy train that is the Oireachtas today.

What's needed is a cull. One TD should be enough for a county the size of Waterford. There should be no more than 50 TDs in the Dail..........and as for that BS talking shop the Senate.....

Unfortunately if we had one , guess who it would be?

CantGetNoSleep

Sully?

Dunmoreroader

I know its a bit late in the day and I'll probably get shot down for raising it but shouldn't Hogan's plans to abolish the Southeast region be included in this campaign? As I've said elsewhere, part of Waterford City's status derives from being the Regional Capital of the Southeast Region. Abolish the region - no need for a regional capital controlling a regional budget.
It's the same as the WRH campaign/Save Waterford needing to be more inclusive of the wider Southeast.

wellboytoo

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I know its a bit late in the day and I'll probably get shot down for raising it but shouldn't Hogan's plans to abolish the Southeast region be included in this campaign? As I've said elsewhere, part of Waterford City's status derives from being the Regional Capital of the Southeast Region. Abolish the region - no need for a regional capital controlling a regional budget.
It's the same as the WRH campaign/Save Waterford needing to be more inclusive of the wider Southeast.[/QUO

On the agenda already

Dunmoreroader

wellboytoo wrote: »

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I know its a bit late in the day and I'll probably get shot down for raising it but shouldn't Hogan's plans to abolish the Southeast region be included in this campaign? As I've said elsewhere, part of Waterford City's status derives from being the Regional Capital of the Southeast Region. Abolish the region - no need for a regional capital controlling a regional budget.
It's the same as the WRH campaign/Save Waterford needing to be more inclusive of the wider Southeast.[/QUO

On the agenda already

Ok fair enough, I've come to this late on. By the way, has anyone seen this, pg 24 in particular;
http://www.greenparty.ie/assets/docs/White%20Paper%20Dréacht%2024%20Meitheamh%20(1).pdf
Btw i'm not a Green, no hugging of trees or wearing of sandals, i was looking around party policies to see where they all stood re Waterford.
I presume this was to have been a govt White Paper under Gormley advocating leaving the SE as is, with Cork getting its mits on the Mid-West instead.

wellboytoo

This is actually the big plan scroll down to page twelve, this is Phils objective , No southeast region anymore..
http://www.environ.ie/en/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,31310,en.pdf

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

This is actually the big plan scroll down to page twelve, this is Phils objective , No southeast region anymore..
http://www.environ.ie/en/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,31310,en.pdf

the new regions:
• Connacht-ulster region
• southern region (the province of munster and counties Carlow, kilkenny and wexford)
• eastern-midland region (the counties of leinster other than those in the southern region)

Dunmoreroader

7upfree wrote: »

the new regions:
• Connacht-ulster region
• southern region (the province of munster and counties Carlow, kilkenny and wexford)
• eastern-midland region (the counties of leinster other than those in the southern region)

Yea i'd seen that , just wondering what the rest of them had in their manifesto's not just the greens.
I know he has it in for Waterford but how does scrapping the Southeast benefit Kilkenny? Cork's the only winner here.

wellboy76

Parish pump politics alive and well

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/st-luke-s-is-safe-hogan-1-4475804

7upfree

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Yea i'd seen that , just wondering what the rest of them had in their manifesto's not just the greens.
I know he has it in for Waterford but how does scrapping the Southeast benefit Kilkenny? Cork's the only winner here.

Unfortunately you're dealing with a mentality in Hogan. The region - or its benefits - doesn't seem to enter his head. It's like he's stuck in the 1960s.

7upfree

wellboy76 wrote: »

Parish pump politics alive and well

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/st-luke-s-is-safe-hogan-1-4475804

Yep. It really is mind boggling how amazingly stupid the whole suggestion actually is. A primary school student could see that. Yet there are "grown" adults who seem to think its "good for the South East".

And then a guy from Cork compiles the report. As I said before you wouldn't see a plotline like it in Father Ted or Kilnascully.

Cabaal

wellboy76 wrote: »

Parish pump politics alive and well

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/st-luke-s-is-safe-hogan-1-4475804

Yet if WRH was getting improvements you'd be thrilled,
:rolleyes:

The A&E upgrade makes sense especially considering the recent new ambulance base in Kilkenny, the A&E is in desperate need of improvements also.

7upfree

Cabaal wrote: »

Yet if WRH was getting improvements you'd be thrilled,
:rolleyes:

The A&E upgrade makes sense especially considering the recent new ambulance base in Kilkenny, the A&E is in desperate need of improvements also.

It's parish pump politics. No two ways about it. Whatever way you try to dress it up.