Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

wes

celtictiger32 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -3X5hIFXYU

and they still want to build that mosque?.......

sorry guys i fvcked up that link, its supposed to be a clip called muslim demographics (its the one with the red flag)

I think you are talking about a video that was debunked ages ago:

Debunking a YouTube hit

Typical scaremongering nonsense, reminiscent of similar garbage seen the world over, concerning other groups.

Nodin

celtictiger32 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -3X5hIFXYU

and they still want to build that mosque?.......

sorry guys i fvcked up that link, its supposed to be a clip called muslim demographics (its the one with the red flag)

You realise that a mosque is not a grow-house for muslims?

MrD012

Nodin wrote: »

Disjointed nonsense, without a fact to back it up.

come on now , I have posted many facts , all of your posts have been hearsay evidence (someone told me it was true so it must be) , none of your arguments have had any substance to them or any factual basis that could be considered.

Nodin wrote: »

What odds does it make the current residents if they did

I have well highlighted the issues at this stage with links to various articles about the effects of Islamic culture on western societies , please go back through my posts and take a look .

Lucy and Harry

They have to pray somewhere and we have not had much trouble from Muslims in this country (I think?) so let them have it as long as moderate Imams are preaching there it will be OK.

professore

MrD012 wrote: »

Clongriffin is quite a diverse area , there are no more muslims in the population than anybody else , which begs the question why build a mosque and Islamic centre there , and the answer is that Gerry Gannon (golden circle investor) wants to build more houses , he wants the Boom years back , he needs to create a demand for these houses and he sees the mosque as all his answers , he knows there are many muslims throughout Dublin and Ireland who will be happy to set up in clongriffin once the facilities are in place . He is only thinking about his own pockets once again , he is not considering the existing residents who purchased their homes without any knowledge of this proposed project.

Well, if true, he is a businessman, and wouldn't be a very good one if he wasn't thinking of his pockets. That's what government and regulation is for.

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

come on now , I have posted many facts , all of your posts have been hearsay evidence (someone told me it was true so it must be) , none of your arguments have had any substance to them or any factual basis that could be considered.

No, you haven't. You have made assertions in regards to immigration etc, without any evidence to back that up. Claiming what you are saying to be a fact, does not make it so. Its up to you to prove you claims, not for other people to disprove them.

MrD012 wrote: »

I have well highlighted the issues at this stage with links to various articles about the effects of Islamic culture on western societies , please go back through my posts and take a look .

Most of what you talked about is irrelevant to Ireland. We are not the UK, we do not have the same laws etc. Also, when other pointed the various issues with what you posted, you simply ignored them, as it simply didn't suit you.

You also have a habit of repeating the same thing over and over again, and never acknowledging the reasons people have disagreed with you. You just refer to your earlier posts, as if they somehow address what people have said, which is of course absurd, as people are often talking about your earlier posts.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

come on now , I have posted many facts , all of your posts have been hearsay evidence (someone told me it was true so it must be) , none of your arguments have had any substance to them or any factual basis that could be considered.

I think Nodin was referring to your accusation that the mosque project is some sort of conspiracy by Gerry Gannon to sell vacant property in the area. I'm sure you have facts to back this up, I'd like to see them too.

celtictiger32

wes wrote: »

I think you are talking about a video that was debunked ages ago:

Debunking a YouTube hit

Typical scaremongering nonsense, reminiscent of similar garbage seen the world over, concerning other groups.

how is it scaremongering? muslims have imposed themselves on our society they do not integrate as our government would lead you to believe. through their own laws they only eat through their halal outlets this is a way to keep muslim only operations in work as halal meat etc can only be prepared by a muslim. they have called for their own law -sharia -to be implemented in ireland for muslims. im sorry but this is ireland we have our own laws whether they be good, bad or indifferent. people who come here must come under irish law. they have also called for christian symbols to be remove from public places i.e. the catholic statue on o connell st in dublin. can you envisage an irish person in a muslim country calling for irish law and the removal of muslim symbols????

Nodin wrote: »

You realise that a mosque is not a grow-house for muslims?

it may as well be arent some of their 'agreed relationships' formed in mosques.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

come on now , I have posted many facts , all of your posts have been hearsay evidence (someone told me it was true so it must be) , none of your arguments have had any substance to them or any factual basis that could be considered..

You haven't shown any link between the mosque and (1) immigration to the country (2) immigration into the area (3) any proof that its the developers idea to encourage either with the mosque.

I'd like you to link to where I've used an anecdote in this thread.

MrD012 wrote: »

I have well highlighted the issues at this stage with links to various articles about the effects of Islamic culture on western societies , please go back through my posts and take a look .

Yes, you've posted incidents and attempted to use a biased sample to blacken the muslim community in general.

Frank Grimes

celtictiger32 wrote: »

how is it scaremongering? muslims have imposed themselves on our society they do not integrate as our government would lead you to believe.

How exactly have they "imposed" themselves? And how are you measuring the degree though which 'they' have integrated or not?

through their own laws they only eat through their halal outlets this is a way to keep muslim only operations in work as halal meat etc can only be prepared by a muslim.

Practicing Muslims (and some non-practicing Muslims in my experience) will only eat halal food, it is a religious requirement not some sort of conspiracy. Would you have the same objections to vegetarians/vegans only eating in 'their' food outlets?

they have called for their own law -sharia -to be implemented in ireland for muslims.

Who are 'they' exactly, and when have 'they' done this - beyond Liam Egan and his various alter-egos and that Islamic Vanguard lot.

Andy-Pandy

I've never had any trouble from any Muslim in this country. If they need a new Mosque then let them have it.

wes

celtictiger32 wrote: »

how is it scaremongering?

Its a pack of lies, hence scaremongering.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

muslims have imposed themselves on our society they do not integrate as our government would lead you to believe.

This has what to do with lies from that video, how exactly? You claims the video is not scaremongering and then don't address it at all.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

through their own laws they only eat through their halal outlets this is a way to keep muslim only operations in work as halal meat etc can only be prepared by a muslim.

Again, this has what to do with the video exactly?

Also, anyone can sell Halaal meat, so your point make 0 sense. Also, anyone can produce Halaal meat as well, as long as they meet the standards of the Halaal meat bodies.

Also, Muslims can eat Kosher meat. Secondly, not all Muslims are super strict in regards to eating Halaal, just like some Jews aren't super strict about eating Kosher. However, regardless nothing to do with the scare mongering video.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they have called for their own law -sharia -to be implemented in ireland for muslims. im sorry but this is ireland we have our own laws whether they be good, bad or indifferent. people who come here must come under irish law.

So all the Muslims got together and called for Sharia law. Sure, I must have missed that meeting....

Also, nothing to do with the video.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they have also called for christian symbols to be remove from public places i.e. the catholic statue on o connell st in dublin. can you envisage an irish person in a muslim country calling for irish law and the removal of muslim symbols????

They did (where do these meetings take place btw?)? Care to show a link, where this happened. Reminds of the whole war on Christmas fiction we see each year.

Again, nothing to do with the video.

You have done a very poor job, defending the video, by you know completely ignoring it. So, seeing as you can't debunk the debunking, and in fact didn't even try, then I think it safe to call it scaremongering.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

it may as well be arent some of their 'agreed relationships' formed in mosques.

Um, WTF?

Nodin

celtictiger32 wrote: »

how is it scaremongering? muslims have imposed themselves on our society.

I'd like three examples of this please.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they do not integrate as our government would lead you to believe. .

When has the goverment tried to 'lead us to believe' that they have integrated or otherwise?

celtictiger32 wrote: »

through their own laws they only eat through their halal outlets this is a way to keep muslim only operations in work as halal meat etc can only be prepared by a muslim. .

Some of our small Jewish community only eat Kosher, Hindus will not eat beef....I'm not seeing how any of this is a problem. In addition, the country makes quite a few bob exporting halal meat.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they have called for their own law -sharia -to be implemented in ireland for muslims. .

"they" have? Did all 30-40,000 of them sign a declaration? Do they have a pope like figure who speaks for them all? Please elaborate.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they have also called for christian symbols to be remove from public places i.e. the catholic statue on o connell st in dublin. .

You have a source for this?

celtictiger32 wrote: »

it may as well be arent some of their 'agreed relationships' formed in mosques.

So no, it isn't then.

ice man75

professore wrote: »

Well, if true, he is a businessman, and wouldn't be a very good one if he wasn't thinking of his pockets. That's what government and regulation is for.

Is his property portfolio not in the hands of NAMA? & I don't think he was a very good business man as his actions helped bring the state to the **** state its in. And as for government & regulation ... Just look at the 1000 + people who marched for Priory hall last Saturday.
Do any of the people posting about this mosque even live in clongriffin or the surrounding area?

Mickey Dazzler

I am an apartment owner in Clongriffin.

To be quite honest I am in two minds.

On one hand the area in not finished and in this economic climate it will never get finished. The idea of all this investment sounds great. All the empty shops I would assume would become occupied and the local economy would benefit.

I know its a long shot but presumably the demand to live there would go up and the prices of property might go up.... or just stop going down and I'd be happy.

On the other hand I do fear it would turn into a muslim ghetto. All over the UK there are Muslim area where over time the local population has moved on. But how could anyone from Clongriffin move when everybody is in negative equity?

I really don't know how to feel but I am leaning on the positive side. Feck it!! Whats the worst that could happen?

celtictiger32

wes wrote: »

.

This has what to do with lies from that video, how exactly? You claims the video is not scaremongering and then don't address it at all.
Again, this has what to do with the video exactly?

did i say it had anything to do with the video?

Also, anyone can sell Halaal meat, so your point make 0 sense. Also, anyone can produce Halaal meat as well, as long as they meet the standards of the Halaal meat bodies.

Also, Muslims can eat Kosher meat. Secondly, not all Muslims are super strict in regards to eating Halaal, just like some Jews aren't super strict about eating Kosher. However, regardless nothing to do with the scare mongering video.

well from what im lead to believe and i have heard this from a muslim in person, halal meat has to be produced by a muslim, if not it is not halal. in addition it was said that true muslims must only eat halal meat.

Again, nothing to do with the video.
So all the Muslims got together and called for Sharia law. Sure, I must have missed that meeting....

Also, nothing to do with the video.

They did (where do these meetings take place btw?)? Care to show a link, where this happened. Reminds of the whole war on Christmas fiction we see each year.

You have done a very poor job, defending the video, by you know completely ignoring it. So, seeing as you can't debunk the debunking, and in fact didn't even try, then I think it safe to call it scaremongering

.
?

again did i say the information i gave came from the video?

there was a group that called for sharia law a few years back, asaik thre was a thread about it on boards aswell, just havent got time to look it up.

also a muslim group made it clear to muslim taxi drivers to oppose a statue that is on the gresham rank on o connell st in dublin. this was requested and flatly turned down the statue had been placed there years ago by dublin taxi drivers. they had made the request through dublin city council and it was passed on to the taxi unions. again this has nothing to do with the vid, this was personal first hand experience

Nodin

celtictiger32 wrote: »

again did i say..............

I asked you a number of questions here....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81274342&postcount=464
If you'd be good enough to get back to me please.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

MrD012, this is a discussion board, not a photo thread. Please don't post photos without at least some kind of discussion of the context - posting a link to the article does not count.

wes

celtictiger32 wrote: »

again did i say the information i gave came from the video?

I pointed out that the video was scaremongering, and then in that context, you went on about a bunch of other stuff, after you claimed the video wasn't scare mongering. So, seeing as the video was factually inaccurate, you then proceed to defend it, by talking about a bunch of other stuff.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

there was a group that called for sharia law a few years back, asaik thre was a thread about it on boards aswell, just havent got time to look it up.

So, that group represented all of Irelands Muslims then? You claims that "they" wanted Sharia law.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

also a muslim group made it clear to muslim taxi drivers to oppose a statue that is on the gresham rank on o connell st in dublin. this was requested and flatly turned down the statue had been placed there years ago by dublin taxi drivers. they had made the request through dublin city council and it was passed on to the taxi unions. again this has nothing to do with the vid, this was personal first hand experience

You have a link to this? Also, how many actually you know bothered to oppose it? Also, does this group represent all of Irelands Muslims?

Also, why post this in the context of asking how the video was scare mongering? Also, why have you ignored the fact, that video you defend is a bunch of lies? You say this has nothing to do with the video, but you use your "claims" in the context of defending it:

celtictiger32 wrote: »

how is it scaremongering? muslims have imposed themselves on our society they do not integrate as our government would lead you to believe.

You are clearly replying to my post in regards, to the video you were talking about having been debunked. So what you said was clearly in defense of it.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

This and the other picture you posted relates to Anjem Choudary and his various groups; they are unrepresentative extremists based in another country - using them as a reason not to build another mosque in Dublin is ridiculous.

walshb

MrD012 wrote: »

you are now entering sharia law britain

We could do with a few of them signs in Temple Bar!:)

ice man75

I also live in clongriffin and would be a bit wary of the size of the proposed mosque and other works included.
I went into DCC and had a look at the proposal
The amount of car park spaces for such a big development is totally inappropriate.
The hole development is IMO blocked of to the rest of the community which will inhibit integration with the rest of the community.
There probably won't be any social & affordable units in the hole project.
The schools would also be a concern for me.

old hippy

There is no shariah law over here, apart from a fringe minority who want to bring it in. There's plenty of fringes in the UK, people manage to get by without worrying about them.

Mr Do12 has had this pointed out to him before but like the fringe types, is not taking much notice of the majority

MrD012

Frank Grimes wrote: »

This and the other picture you posted relates to Anjem Choudary and his various groups; they are unrepresentative extremists based in another country -

I'm not using them as a reason , It was more of a Joke than anything ,

I have already said that there are no more Muslims living in clongriffin than anybody else , so why build a mosque there ? ?

I have also pointed out various problems the UK faces when Islamic Culture meets western , many of them are day to day and have nothing to do with extremism , for example the descrimination of women in shariah council rulings , the disruption to schooling over music lessons , sports and clothing , arranged marriages and child brides , all of these have negative impacts on western society and are a cause for concern.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

I'm not using them as a reason , It was more of a Joke than anything

You replied to a question 'what's the worst that can happen' with one of those pictures; trying to explain it away as a joke when you're pulled up on it doesn't negate what you are implying by posting it in the first place.

I have already said that there are no more Muslims living in clongriffin than anybody else , so why build a mosque there ? ?

Because there's space, because it's cheap land - I don't know but they have to be built somewhere, or are you implying that there's some sort of critical mass of Muslims needed in an area before a mosque can be built?

I have also pointed out various problems the UK faces when Islamic Culture meets western , many of them are day to day and have nothing to do with extremism , for example the descrimination of women in shariah council rulings , the disruption to schooling over music lessons , sports and clothing , arranged marriages and child brides , all of these have negative impacts on western society and are a cause for concern.

The size and demographics of the Muslim population here is entirely different to the UK, you are not comparing like with like. Others have pointed out the issues with your other points so I'm not going to repeat those.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

I'm not using them as a .......... for concern.

I posed a number of questions to you here,
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81274232&postcount=460
if you'd be good enough to respond please.

ice man75

This is just phase 1 they have bought 2 other sites of NAMA

Nodin

ice man75 wrote: »

This is just phase 1 they have bought 2 other sites of NAMA

You've a source for that?

ice man75

Nodin wrote: »

You've a source for that?

Yes It's a fact and & wait till you find out what NAMA are doing for them so they bought the land

Frank Grimes

ice man75 wrote: »

Yes It's a fact and & wait till you find out what NAMA are doing for them so they bought the land

Why don't you just tell us, preferably with some sort of source other than 'I heard about it down the pub' - I am genuinely interested in this so I would like something verifiable to read up on, or your anecdotes at the very least.

Nodin

ice man75 wrote: »

Yes It's a fact and & wait till you find out what NAMA are doing for them so they bought the land

I didn't ask whether it was a fact or not, I asked if you had a source for the statement. Do you? And if so, please provide it.

ice man75

It's true all right I can't say where the info is from as I like having a job. But maybe if you checked the land register you might find something.

Nodin

ice man75 wrote: »

It's true all right I can't say where the info is from as I like having a job. But maybe if you checked the land register you might find something.

You made the claim, it's for you to provide the evidence. With no evidence, its just anecdotal and of no import to the discussion.

MrD012

Frank Grimes wrote: »

I don't know but they have to be built somewhere, or are you implying that there's some sort of critical mass of Muslims needed in an area before a mosque can be built?

well yes , if the mosque is going to be in a residential area where the existing population is quite diverse , surely any large scale development should be built to suit the needs of the existing population rather than a minority group within that population unless the idea is to attract an influx of muslim settlers .

Frank Grimes wrote: »

The size and demographics of the Muslim population here is entirely different to the UK, you are not comparing like with like.

the impact of Islamic culture when it meets western culture has the same effects regardless of the numbers , also numbers grow , the greater the facilites in place , the more attractive the destination will be , when you go on your holidays you will choose a destination that has the best facilites , these destinations are always the busiest.

old hippy

ice man75 wrote: »

Yes It's a fact and & wait till you find out what NAMA are doing for them so they bought the land

Ooooh. I'm all ears, now.

Tell us. I'm all a quivering.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

well yes , if the mosque.......... the busiest.

I asked you a number of questions here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81274232&postcount=460

Could you please revert to me with some answers please?

MrD012

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

They have to pray somewhere

Nobody is stopping anybody from praying , in fact the Clonskeagh mosque is quite large and more than adequate to meet the demand.

old hippy

ice man75 wrote: »

Don't be such a lazy PC correct arm chair poster. Do you want me to come around and feed you?
Take it what ever way you want
Of all the posters on this topic I'm the only 1 who even bothered to view the drawings and the reports in the planning file.
So when you get a look at the development you can come back to me with your opinion until the you are just talking PC cr@p about religion

It's Fintan time

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

well yes , if the mosque is going to be in a residential area where the existing population is quite diverse , surely any large scale development should be built to suit the needs of the existing population rather than a minority group within that population unless the idea is to attract an influx of muslim settlers .

Well that's why we have a planning process, just saying it should not be built because there isn't enough of them around isn't really a reason not to build it there.

the impact of Islamic culture when it meets western culture has the same effects regardless of the numbers , also numbers grow , the greater the facilites in place , the more attractive the destination will be , when you go on your holidays you will choose a destination that has the best facilites , these destinations are always the busiest.

More lazy generalisations, thanks.

ice man75

old hippy wrote: »

It's Fintan time

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

Ya wha??
Old hippy did you view the plans?

MrD012

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

I am an apartment owner in Clongriffin.

I really don't know how to feel but I am leaning on the positive side. Feck it!! Whats the worst that could happen?

when you say you are an apartment owner , do you rent out an apartment to somebody else or do you actually live there ?

MrD012

Frank Grimes wrote: »

Well that's why we have a planning process, just saying it should not be built because there isn't enough of them around isn't really a reason not to build it there.

Actually it is a reason , because why would you want to build it in the first place if there were not many muslims there , why not build something that caters for the entire community as a whole ? I mean in that case , why not build a Jewish Synagogue or a Kingdom Hall

Scofflaw

ice_man75, keep it civil, please.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Frank Grimes

ice man75 wrote: »

Nodin Don't be such a lazy PC correct arm chair poster. Do you want me to come around and feed you?
Take it what ever way you want
Of all the posters on this topic I'm the only 1 who even bothered to view the drawings and the reports in the planning file.
So when you get a look at the development you can come back to me with your opinion until the you are just talking PC cr@p about religion

There's enough information on the application online to get a good idea of what's being proposed without even looking at the drawings. I'll take a look through the documentation when it goes online; however the fact of having viewed these documents does not mean it's ok to post unverifiable information and then accuse anyone who asks for evidence as spouting 'pc crap' or whatever it is you think people are doing.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

Actually it is a reason , because why would you want to build it in the first place if there were not many muslims there , why not want to build something that caters for the entire community as a whole ? I mean in that case , why not build a Jewish Synagogue

There are more Muslims in Dublin/Ireland than Jews would be the main reason.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

Nobody is stopping anybody from praying , in fact the Clonskeagh mosque is quite large and more than adequate to meet the demand.

It's quite obviously not adequate given the amount of other mosques and prayer rooms that are located around the city, and now this proposed mosque.

MrD012

Frank Grimes wrote: »

There are more Muslims in Dublin/Ireland than Jews would be the main reason.

so you agree , the mosque is to encourage muslims from around Ireland to settle there.

Frank Grimes

MrD012 wrote: »

so you agree , the mosque is to encourage muslims from around Ireland to settle there.

That's not what I said, please don't try to ascribe your own to opinion onto what I'm saying.

MrD012

Scofflaw wrote: »

ice_man75, keep it civil, please.

moderately,
Scofflaw

why are only the people against the mosque being reprimanded

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

so you agree , the mosque is to encourage muslims from around Ireland to settle there.

Is there some reason you can't reply to these questions?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81274232&postcount=460