Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

what has what you said got to do with anything , we are talking about the Clongriffin Mosque . ?



I am saying we need to look a short distance accross the waters to the UK and study the Impacts Islam has had on the UK society.

You were spouting nonsense about Islamic 'settlers' - simply pointing out that since there are already Irish Muslims the term 'settlers' doesn't apply.

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc. Do you think The English should have stopped the Irish getting into their country?

wes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

A 34 classroom school just for Muslims?

Seems like a recipe for disaster. Having almost an entire generation's worth of a group of people learn and grow up completely separated from the rest of society is a surefire way to brew up problems.

You'd have a fair point, if most of the countries schools, weren't already run on a similar basis.......

Aiel

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

philologos

Religious freedom should exist for all in society. Although I have strong disagreements with Islam they have the liberty to practice their faith freely.

I do however balk when people compare radical Muslims to the Amish (who are non-violent) and the Westboro Baptist Church is still ridiculously tenuous (they are a family church with 70 people hardly representative of Christianity not to mention that their theology is way off - they are still non-violent).

wes

Aiel wrote: »

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

So Muslims are all one big homogenous group? How exactly do you propose for example, lets say an Irish convert to Islam is suppose to change how a foreign government works? Surely, they would have no say in the matter. So why should they be reponsible for someting with which they have no say in?

Hacuna Matata

Aiel wrote: »

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politifact-most-muslim-countries-allow-churches-synagogues/1126477

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic relations, said Graham was incorrect. "There are lots of Christian churches and synagogues in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Indonesia, Qatar, Kuwait. … If you go to any number of so-called Muslim countries you will see thriving Christian and Jewish populations." One member of the Iranian Parliament is Jewish, Hooper noted. "The only one where you don't see it, where you can't have a Christian church or synagogue is Saudi Arabia," Hooper said.

NTMK

MrD012 wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

would you care to list some of these negative impacts?

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

but they're not . (also it should be country's schools)

So the Catholic church doesn't run most of the country's schools?

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

How is it off topic?

You urge us to look at the effect of Islam on UK society - I pointed out that another group of people had a demonstrably negative and violent impact on UK society but were not prevented from entry as the UK government realised that those responsible for the violence were a small minority who were not representative of the vast majority of Irish people. The fundamentalists are not representative of the vast majority of Muslims.

As for UK society - I lived there for 10 years and it was a breath of fresh air after holy Catholic Ireland.

If that is what we can expect -Bring it on I say!!

partyatmygaff

wes wrote: »

You'd have a fair point, if most of the countries schools, weren't already run on a similar basis.......

No they're not.

Schools with Catholic patronage may give preference to Catholic children but accept non-Catholic children as well with no issue. In some cases, classes may be more non-Catholic than Catholic.

I can't imagine the same happening for a school built within a "Muslim centre". For one, no non-Muslim parent would likely ever send their child there and secondly I doubt the school itself would even accept a Non-Muslim child.

Bannasidhe

Aiel wrote: »

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

So, in order for us to prevent ourselves becoming like 'these countries' we should prohibit the building of a place of worship for believers in a minority religion because that is exactly what these countries do...

Are you sure you have thought your point through to it's logical conclusion?

wes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

No they're not.

Except that they are......

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Schools with Catholic patronage may give preference to Catholic children but accept non-Catholic children as well with no issue. In some cases, classes may be more non-Catholic than Catholic.

So, basically your contradicting yourself in the same bloody sentence...... So the Catholic church run the schools, and give preference to Catholics.

As for school have more non-Catholics, that just illistrates the overall problem with the system imho more than anything else.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I can't imagine the same happening for a school built within a "Muslim centre". For one, no non-Muslim parent would likely ever send their child there and secondly I doubt the school itself would even accept a Non-Muslim child.

If they accept public money, they I would imagine they would have to accept children who aren't Muslim. So, again I see no difference at all. We already run the vast majority of schools on this basis.

Personally, I think we shouldn't give public money to such schools for any Religion, but to single out Muslims imho is rather pointless, when the entire system is the problem, and not a single school.

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

How is it off topic?

You urge us to look at the effect of Islam on UK society - I pointed out that another group of people had a demonstrably negative and violent impact on UK society

but the Impact of Islam in the UK that I refer to is not so much the violent aspect , its other aspects such as the shariah councils and the conflict between domestic law and shariah.

women within Islamic communites are frequently discriminated against in shariah council rulings , very often the majority of rulings such as child custody etc goes in favour of the man , a marriage contract in shariah law is a contract between a womans "gaurdian" and the husband .

very often if women do pluck up the courage to seek help from the state law they are branded as westerners by their communities and feel like outcasts.

There are many other examples but I do not want to go off the topic of the Clongriffin Mosque

we need to sit down and really look at the UK and the impacts of Islam on society .

Bannasidhe

partyatmygaff wrote: »

No they're not.

Schools with Catholic patronage may give preference to Catholic children but accept non-Catholic children as well with no issue. In some cases, classes may be more non-Catholic than Catholic.

I can't imagine the same happening for a school built within a "Muslim centre". For one, no non-Muslim parent would likely ever send their child there and secondly I doubt the school itself would even accept a Non-Muslim child.

Which is why we have countless threads on the general theme of 'I'm not a practicing Catholic but should I get my kids baptised to make sure I can get them into a good school/school nearest me?'

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which is why we have countless threads on the general theme of 'I'm not a practicing Catholic but should I get my kids baptised to make sure I can get them into a good school/school nearest me?'

Again , the thread has nothing to do with catholics but this is what every issue keeps getting dragged back to

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

but the Impact of Islam in the UK that I refer to is not so much the violent aspect , its other aspects such as the shariah councils and the conflict between domestic law and shariah.

The UK has such non-binding arbitration arrangements for other Relgions as well:

London Beth Din

Those were set up over a 100 years ago.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

but the Impact of Islam in the UK that I refer to is not so much the violent aspect , its other aspects such as the shariah councils and the conflict between domestic law and shariah.

women in Islamic communites are frequently discriminated against in shariah council rulings , very often the majority of rulings such as child custody etc goes in favour of the man , a marriage contract in shariah law is a contract between a womans "gaurdian" and the husband .

very often if women do pluck up the courage to seek help from the state law they are branded as westerners by their communities and feel like outcasts.

There are many other examples but I do not want to go off the topic of the Clongriffin Mosque

we need to sit down and really look at the UK and the impacts of Islam on society .

Yes - because women in Ireland were always protected by church and State. We would never tolerate a situation where women could be placed under the control of religious orders for such crimes as getting pregnant or not behaving as their family or parish priest thought they should.

But I am sure that where such a horrendous infringement of women's rights ever to happen in Ireland the State would act immediately to ensure these women received a full apology and compensation for their illegal imprisonment...

...oh wait... That did happen and the survivors are still awaiting that apology and are being denied compensation.

It's a great to live in Ireland where no religion ever gets to dictate what our rights and civil liberties are and are not! Pity that particular Ireland doesn't exist yet.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

Again , the thread has nothing to do with catholics but this is what every issue keeps getting dragged back to

Really?

You are making sweeping statements about countries that have a dominant religion and how that religion impacts of members of religious minorities yet you believe to compare and contrast a country that has a dominant Muslim population with a country that has a dominant Catholic population is off topic.

partyatmygaff

wes wrote: »

Except that they are

So, basically your contradicting yourself in the same bloody sentence...... So the Catholic church run the schools, and give preference to Catholics.

As for school have more non-Catholics, that just illistrates the overall problem with the system imho more than anything else.

Please don't be disingenuous. We all know the likelihood of a non-Muslim parent sending their child to a Muslim school within a Muslim centre is slim to none.

It's not the same as your typical school near a housing estate where the school is run for the local community. This is a purpose built "Islamic centre" with its own school. The only community it intends to serve is the Muslim community. Considering it's quite big, there's a very real possibility that we could develop a situation where an entire religious group are being educated by a single school as a single tightly-knit community leading to the usual "Us and them" way of life and thinking which is already a problem in some countries.

If they accept public money, they I would imagine they would have to accept children who aren't Muslim. So, again I see no difference at all. We already run the vast majority of schools on this basis.

Personally, I think we shouldn't give public money to such schools for any Religion, but to single out Muslims imho is rather pointless, when the entire system is the problem, and not a single school.

Whether or not they're state-aided and have to accept non-Muslims is irrelevant. If they're private, it's an issue. If they're public, it's still an issue because I highly doubt non-Muslims will apply for their child to attend a Muslim school located within a Muslim centre.

dizzywizlw

Build it, then bring back McDowell as justice minister and enjoy the show.

philologos

MrD012 wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

I live in a majority Islamic area in East London. Realistically the impact that Islam has is very little. In one way it can be positive. There's far less drunken nonsense around due to Islam I suspect. The only negative thing I've found so far is that there's a lot of burqa wearers including one of my next door neighbours. That really doesn't affect my life. I've had a lot of good encounters with Muslims in my local area and a good chance to discuss our respective beliefs.

What's the worst part of this? I'm living in this type of environment. It's fine. It's a great opportunity for me as a Christian to live distinctively and to share the Gospel with others.

philologos

MrD012 wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

I live in a majority Islamic area in East London. Realistically the impact that Islam has is very little. In one way it can be positive. There's far less drunken nonsense around due to Islam I suspect. The only negative thing I've found so far is that there's a lot of burqa wearers including one of my next door neighbours. That really doesn't affect my life. I've had a lot of good encounters with Muslims in my local area and a good chance to discuss our respective beliefs.

What's the worst part of this? I'm living in this type of environment. It's fine. It's a great opportunity for me as a Christian to live distinctively and to share the Gospel with others.

old hippy

Halloran springs wrote: »

Seeing how they behave (murdering people, burning down embassies, etc) over the most trivial things would definitely put me off allowing them open a super-center here.

Indeed, because as we all know "they" are just one big homogenous blob, intent on obliterating everything in "their" path :rolleyes:

I lived across the road from a mosque for 7 years and the only point of contention? Parking spaces. The horror. :eek::eek::eek:

Bannasidhe

old hippy wrote: »

Indeed, because as we all know "they" are just one big homogenous blob, intent on obliterating everything in "their" path :rolleyes:

I lived across the road from a mosque for 7 years and the only point of contention? Parking spaces. The horror. :eek::eek::eek:

I had the exact same problem when I lived across the road from a Mormon Temple in Brisbane. At least one Sunday every month or so someone would partially block my driveway and I would have to go and ask for the car to be moved. Profound apologies would follow and usually a bunch of flowers delivered the next day with a note saying 'sorry' and the kids used to play outside which annoyed my dog because she wanted to get out to play with them. It was hell!

MrD012

All the Good News Stories are coming out now , ever since I mentioned studying the impact in the UK , everyone now has lived in the UK and has good news stories about Muslims .

Sharia for Britain http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html


London suberb put under shariah law http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3718799/London-suburb-put-under-Sharia-law.html

Shariah Marriages girls 12 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202991/Sharia-marriages-girls-12-religious-courts-subverting-British-law.html

Shariah a law unto itself http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8686504/Sharia-a-law-unto-itself.html

Muslim-Extremists-Seek Sharia Law in UK Towns http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/July/Muslim-Extremists-Seek-Sharia-Law-in-UK-Towns/


The-British-child-brides-Muslim-mosque-leaders-agree-marry-girl-12 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200555/The-British-child-brides-Muslim-mosque-leaders-agree-marry-girl-12--long-parents-dont-tell-anyone.html

---

Is this really what we want for Ireland .

wes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Please don't be disingenuous. We all know the likelihood of a non-Muslim parent sending their child to a Muslim school within a Muslim centre is slim to none.

Oh please, the only reason non-catholic parents send there children to such schools, is that they have no choice in most cases. Again, singling out one school like this is silly. The whole system is the problem, not one schools.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It's not the same as your typical school near a housing estate where the school is run for the local community.

You said yourself, Catholic schools give preference to Catholics, so no the schools aren't in most cases for the local commuity as such. There Catholic schools first.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

This is a purpose built "Islamic centre" with its own school. The only community it intends to serve is the Muslim community.

Again, no different than a Catholic school. Again, the entire system is the issue, and not a single school.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Considering it's quite big, there's a very real possibility that we could develop a situation where an entire religious group are being educated by a single school as a single tightly-knit community leading to the usual "Us and them" way of life and thinking which is already a problem in some countries.

The current system already does this, and a single school will have very little effect on the overall system.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Whether or not they're state-aided and have to accept non-Muslims is irrelevant. If they're private, it's an issue. If they're public, it's still an issue because I highly doubt non-Muslims will apply for their child to attend a Muslim school located within a Muslim centre.

If people want to send there kids to private schools, then that there business. Nothing anyone can do about that. Secondly, ignoring the entire system, and focusing on a one school is simply absurd. We have a very broken school system, and complaing about a single school is imho rather pointless.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

All the Good News Stories are coming out now , ever since I mentioned studying the impact in the UK , everyone now has lived in the UK and has good news stories about Muslims .

Sharia for Britain http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html


London suberb put under shariah law http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3718799/London-suburb-put-under-Sharia-law.html

Shariah Marriages girls 12 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202991/Sharia-marriages-girls-12-religious-courts-subverting-British-law.html

Shariah a law unto itself http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8686504/Sharia-a-law-unto-itself.html

Muslim-Extremists-Seek Sharia Law in UK Towns http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/July/Muslim-Extremists-Seek-Sharia-Law-in-UK-Towns/

---

Is this really what we want for Ireland .

If it says it in the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph it must be true.

I just PM'd my cousin on FB to see how she is coping with living under Sharia Law in Waltham Forest - bizarrely, she didn't know she was. Living there since 1988 you would think she would have noticed such a dramatic shift.

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If it says it in the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph it must be true.

Are you saying all of the articles in these newspapers are untrue ?

Maybe the Sunday Times would be more to your liking http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1122316.ece

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

All the Good News Stories are coming out now , ever since I mentioned studying the impact in the UK , everyone now has lived in the UK and has good news stories about Muslims .


Is this really what we want for Ireland .

Some of the papers above have been known to you know make stuff up in regards to Muslims. The Sun is particularly bad. Several example where the British Media have made up stories about Muslims can be found here:

The shameful Islamophobia at the heart of Britain's press

I will say that Ireland doesn't need newspapers making crap up.....

MrD012

wes wrote: »

Some of the papers above have been known to you know make stuff up in regards to Muslims. The Sun is particularly bad. Several example where the British Media have made up stories about Muslims can be found here:

ok well what about the Sunday Times article on child brides
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1122316.ece


again I suppose all lies , I can keep posting if you keep denying any problems exist

NTMK

MrD012 wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If it says it in the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph it must be true.

Are you saying all of the articles in these newspapers are untrue ?

daily mail and the sun are famous for printing bs in a daily basis, cant comment on the telegraph.

and cbn really?

if you want to prove a point dont use tabloids that try and create shock and outrage to sell papers

MrD012

NTMK wrote: »

daily mail and the sun are famous for printing bs in a daily basis, cant comment on the telegraph.

and cbn really?

if you want to prove a point dont use tabloids that try and create shock and outrage to sell papers

if you read my previous post I just used a broadsheet article reference , but again I suppose its all lies to the people on boards . as per usual , the all knowing wise people who dont like anyone elses opinions or "facts"

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

ok well what about the Sunday Times article on child brides
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1122316.ece


again I suppose all lies , I can keep posting if you keep denying any problems exist

If you are going to convey some kind of alarm on this kind of thing, then by all means include all the Sikhs, Hindus, orthodox Jews and folk from certain African traditions too.
This line of non-traditional Irish are hardly detrimental to the well being of the country.

MrD012

JustinDee wrote: »

This line of non-traditional Irish are hardly detrimental to the well being of the country.

as I've just shown you with references to the UK model, they are . You have yet to provide any evidence that suggests otherwise

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

as I've just shown you with references to the UK model, they are . You have yet to provide any evidence that suggests otherwise

First of all, there is no "model". The UK and republic of Ireland are also very different in many societal aspects too. Maybe the Irish are just not experienced enough in 'foreigners' coming to their shores. This would be ironic given how much flight the Irish have taken themselves.

The fact that people from all these backgrounds are getting on with their lives and just minding their own bloody business should be "evidence" enough that they are not detrimental to the country's well-being.

The same sort of shameful labelling came about with regards to Jewish refugees during the early 1940s. It was this inexplicable and unjustified mistrust that decreed only 66 families were permitted off the boats befor 1948. Brian Girvin's book on The Emergency in Ireland and Prof. Dermot Keogh's very excellent 'History of Jews in Ireland' would provide you some interesting reading.

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

ok well what about the Sunday Times article on child brides
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1122316.ece


again I suppose all lies , I can keep posting if you keep denying any problems exist

You seem to be denying the existence of the fact that newspapers do tell lies about Muslims at times.

Secondly, every community has its criminals. You seem to only care about the Muslims one, where all Muslims are apparently responsible for there criminals.

BTW, I can post similar crimes from other communities btw:

Jimmy Savile sexual abuse allegations: has the BBC done enough?

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

ok well what about the Sunday Times article on child brides
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1122316.ece


again I suppose all lies , I can keep posting if you keep denying any problems exist

This article says some Imans have said they would officiate at the marriages of under age brides - it also said

The revelations will heap pressure on the government to include underage sharia weddings in its forthcoming bill to outlaw forced marriage. This weekend, the Home Office confirmed such ceremonies would be examined when the new legislation was drawn up.

Seems to me that says the UK government were already drawing up legislation to prevent forced marriages - a the problem is not confined to Muslims but is quite widespread (quite common among Hindus for example) and are now expanding the terms of new legislation to specifically include underage marriage.

Plus the legislation on Statutory Rape would still apply should such a marriage be consummated.

Do you have a link to an article that is not riddled with anti-Muslim hyperbole?

Raphael

This is an 18,000 sqm 6 acre site. The ICC in Clonskeagh is a 16,000 sqm 4 acre site. Not an enormous step up.

There'll be a school on the site. Like the one in the ICC already, or like the North Dublin Muslim National School in Cabra. Nothing new again. And as mentioned, it's not like there's any shortage of catholic schools around, which promote catholic oriented uniforms, teach children from religious texts, and engage in regular prayer.

Anyone who's saying that it's not reaonable to put a second mosque in Dublin because people can already travel to the one in Clonskeagh, when there are 190 RC churches in the city needs their heads checked. Hell, based on demographic ratios they should have at least 2.4 mosques, and that's if you assume everyone who said they were RC in the census actually is (which is untrue), that an equal proprotion of self identifying RCs go to mass as muslims (probably not true), and that the ratio of RC to muslim in dublin is equal to the national level (also probably not true).

Edit: First point is incorrect, I was mixing up site and building size. Since edited for accuracy

MrD012

JustinDee wrote: »

The fact that people from all these backgrounds are getting on with their lives and just minding their own bloody business should be "evidence" enough that they are not detrimental to the country's well-being.

Again , the facts in the Newspaper Articles I posted speak for themselves , the truth is that there are major difficulties within the UK Society in relation to Islam and Shariah , difficulties which have an impact not only on vulnerable muslim women and children but also on the wider population . we cannot be blinded to the issues , it would be foolish to do so.

Also we need to know the backgrounds and Names of the Individuals investing in the Mosque , are they a Saudi group and if so , have they connections with radical elements or whats the situation . we just dont know .

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

Again , the facts in the Newspaper Articles I posted speak for themselves , the truth is that there are major difficulties within the UK Society in relation to Islam and Shariah , difficulties which have an impact not only on vulnerable muslim women and children but also on the wider population . we cannot be blinded to the issues , it would be foolish to do so.

Also we need to know the backgrounds and Names of the Individuals investing in the Mosque , are they a Saudi group and if so , have they connections with radical elements or whats the situation . we just dont know .

Know an awful lot of Muslim women in the UK and vulnerable is not a word I would use to describe any of them bar one.

This woman was beaten by her husband - I witnessed the after effects when I called around to see her one day. I had a word with the local Iman and the husband went on an extended holiday to re think his attitude. Mrs Miah was a much happier woman from that day on - in fact, she became quite assertive and a valuable volunteer in the community centre I managed.


Should we stop the Saudi's investing in our equestrian industry too?

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

Again , the facts in the Newspaper Articles I posted speak for themselves , the truth is that there are major difficulties within the UK Society in relation to Islam and Shariah , difficulties which have an impact not only on vulnerable muslim women and children but also on the wider population . we cannot be blinded to the issues , it would be foolish to do so

You're assuming that illegality is certain to follow. Another big mistake to make as evident in the past.

MrD012 wrote: »

Also we need to know the backgrounds and Names of the Individuals investing in the Mosque , are they a Saudi group and if so , have they connections with radical elements or whats the situation . we just dont know

Seperate matter (national security). You don't know and you certainly don't know what G2 or the ISS would know either. They've been dealing with terrorism ever since formed, so I'd think they know what they're doing.

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Know an awful lot of Muslim women in the UK and vulnerable is not a word I would use to describe any of them bar one.

you seem to be well connected over there , how many is that you know now. again all whataboutery , you supply no documented evidence to support any of your statements. Its all College Talk really , no substance to it.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Should we stop the Saudi's investing in our equestrian industry too?

If they have a link to radical elements , yes we should . do you disagree ?

MrD012

Also , why should a NAMA Developer and Golden Circle investor Gerry Gannon , someone who was a major player in the downfall of the country be involved in such a project .

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

you seem to be well connected over there , how many is that you know now. again all whataboutery , you supply no documented evidence to support any of your statements.

You have engaged in whataboutery numerous times, in fact the articles you posted are a perfect example of whataboutery. You seem to be tarring all Muslims as criminals and nothing more. Seemingly, when a Muslim commits a crime, they are all uniquely responsible, and apparently it doesn't matter a damn if other people who aren't Muslim also commits such crimes as well.

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

Also , why should a NAMA Developer and Golden Circle investor Gerry Gannon , someone who was a major player in the downfall of the country be involved in such a project .

Finally, a real and actual issue/concern.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

you seem to be well connected over there , how many is that you know now. again all whataboutery , you supply no documented evidence to support any of your statements.


.

Not well connected. Just actually lived and worked there for 10 years alongside Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Christians of all denominations, etc etc.

Have you lived for an extended period of time in the UK? If so, where exactly was this?

What about your whataboutry or even your grasping at strawery?

You are a fine one to ask for documented evidence - all you have managed to supply are tabloid articles full of anti-Muslim rhetoric and hyperbole as 'proof' of some end of days Muslim conspiracy and vague allegations about the state of UK society.

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

all you have managed to supply are tabloid articles full of anti-Muslim rhetoric and hyperbole as 'proof' of some end of days Muslim conspiracy and vague allegations about the state of UK society.

where exactly in any of my posts did I suggest any of the above , not once did I suggest anything about the 'end of days' or 'conspiracy' , quote me where I did , your resorting to "college" boy tactics now , there is no substance in any of your arguments .

YouGov are a reputable online market research agency .

YouGov sought to gauge the character of the Muslim community's response to the events of July 7. As the figures in the chart show, 88 per cent of British Muslims clearly have no intention of trying to justify the bus and Tube murders.


However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified. Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.


Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.


A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

wes

MrD012 wrote: »

where exactly in any of my posts did I suggest any of the above , not once did I suggest anything about the 'end of days' or 'conspiracy' , quote me where I did , your resorting to "college" boy tactics now , there is no substance in any of your arguments .

YouGov are a reputable online market research agency .

YouGov sought to gauge the character of the Muslim community's response to the events of July 7. As the figures in the chart show, 88 per cent of British Muslims clearly have no intention of trying to justify the bus and Tube murders.


However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified. Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.


Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.


A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

How many people in the UK, voted for Blair after, the illegal war of aggression against Iraq, which killed far more civilians than the July 7th terror attacks? Why is support for war against Iraq ok, which btw was significant, otherwise there would have been no war, involving the UK. Again, one rule for Muslims and another for the everyone else.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

where exactly in any of my posts did I suggest any of the above , not once did I suggest anything about the 'end of days' or 'conspiracy' , quote me where I did , your resorting to "college" boy tactics now , there is no substance in any of your arguments .

YouGov are a reputable online market research agency .

YouGov sought to gauge the character of the Muslim community's response to the events of July 7. As the figures in the chart show, 88 per cent of British Muslims clearly have no intention of trying to justify the bus and Tube murders.


However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified. Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.


Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.


A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

I am resorting to college lecturer tactics (which amazingly is what I am) to point out the inconsistencies in your position and the logical conclusion of your baseless accusations.

Another lecturer tactic - any chance of a link to the source you have quoted these stats from?

Edit : Just want to repeat my question - Have you lived in the UK for any extended period of time?