Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

JustinDee

wes wrote: »

How many people in the UK, voted for Blair after, the illegal war of aggression against Iraq, which killed far more civilians than the July 7th terror attacks? Why is support for war against Iraq ok, which btw was significant, otherwise there would have been no war, involving the UK. Again, one rule for Muslims and another for the everyone else.

Oh pass the bucket.
This isn't about the dubious circumstances behind the iraq invasion of 2003, which itself was not about muslims.
Its a thread about a proposed mosque in Dublin, which I personally have no issues with. Playing the victim is just as pithy as labelling the victim.

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I am resorting to college lecturer tactics (which amazingly is what I am) to point out the inconsistencies in your position and the logical conclusion of your baseless accusations.

let me guess .. European affairs ? Jean Monnet ?

would explain a lot

Do many of your colleagues share your viewpoint

walshb

Centuries of that catholic and other religion nonsense and now we're importing more madness and nonsense.

JustinDee

walshb wrote: »

Centuries of that catholic and other religion nonsense and now we're importing more madness and nonsense.

Nobody is "importing" anything.
People from countries just happening to find Ireland a desirable place to make a life and earn a living. Although having read some of the comments here from some of the Irish, feck knows why.

wes

JustinDee wrote: »

Oh pass the bucket.
This isn't about the dubious circumstances behind the iraq invasion of 2003, which itself was not about muslims.
Its a thread about a proposed mosque in Dublin, which I personally have no issues with. Playing the victim is just as pithy as labelling the victim.

I brought up the Iraq war, as evidence of people who aren't Muslim supporting violence, after another poster, brought up the July 7 terror attacks.

As for playing the victim, hardly my intention, and how you came to that conclusion is beyond me. My main point is was to constrast the claims being made in regards to Muslims uniquely doing one thing or another, which seems to be the general point being made in that post. Pointing out that Muslim are hardly the only ones to do such things, is not playing the victim.

MrD012

JustinDee wrote: »

Nobody is "importing" anything.
People from countries just happening to find Ireland a desirable place to make a life and earn a living. Although having read some of the comments here from some of the Irish, feck knows why.

I think the why part has been explained to you in some detail , you just choose not to listen , the only conclusion I can come to is that you are a eurocrat or something , you are of the open borders mindset where unlimited and uncontrolled migration into Ireland is something you see as pivotal to undermining national identities and everything associated with nations to make it easier to exert supreme central control without resistance thus advancing the Federal Superstate

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

I think the why part has been explained to you in some detail , you just choose not to listen , the only conclusion I can come to is that you are a eurocrat or something , you are of the open borders mindset where unlimited and uncontrolled migration into Ireland is something you see as pivotal

Since you're in the pigeon-holing mood, I'm nothing of a kind so you can knock the presumptions on the head, thanks.
Of course there should be border-controls and immigration policies. Just not some obscene pre-conceived decision based on race, religion or ethnicity as I illiustrated earlier has already been evident in Ireland.

MrD012

JustinDee wrote: »

Just not some obscene pre-conceived decision based on race, religion .

but its not pre-conceived or even obscene, its factual , all of the links I posted are fact , you can choose to ignore them but you are doing yourself no favours by burying your head in the sand.

Fighting Irish

lagente wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Plan-to-build-84-million-Islamic-center-in-Dublin-to-host-40000-Muslims-in-the-city-172632091.html#ixzz28drMaw1L

I personally object to this and I hope we quickly quash the argument that this will lead to creation of new jobs and investment, because the long term ramifications of this are large. We would not be allowed to even spread other religion on the street in many of the countries where the people are from, let alone build a cultural center for it. It is because of this religion that 9 year old girls can be married, and had sex with in countries like Saudi Arabia, beheadings of gays, etc. Islam has branches that are still stuck in the Middle Ages and worse, I'm not even going to argue on that point, and I think we should take active steps against it being built. There has been enough suffering due to unchecked religion here already.

Hate to tell ya but all religions have bad points

walshb

JustinDee wrote: »

Nobody is "importing" anything.
People from countries just happening to find Ireland a desirable place to make a life and earn a living. .

If only!

Nodin

Aiel wrote: »

I agree with the point made about how is there religious equality if i'll be killed while trying to build a Christian church in any one of 40 or 50 Muslum cities in Asia or Africa yet they can build a mosque anywhere they want?
By all means they can build a Mosque here but i feel only if they allowed me build my church in Islamabad etc.

Another person who thinks our legislation should be measured and made to match a third world country.

Are all muslims from Islamabad btw?

Mrdo12 wrote:

.......but allowing "our Land" yes the tax payers land to be sold to Saudi Arabia for them advance their conquest of Ireland ......

Hysterical nonsense.

Mrdo12 wrote:

During Ramadan Muslim parents were removing their small children from school music lessons ......

You've a source for that?

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

I think the why part has been explained to you in some detail , you just choose not to listen , the only conclusion I can come to is that you are a eurocrat or something , you are of the open borders mindset where unlimited and uncontrolled migration into Ireland is something you see as pivotal to undermining national identities and everything associated with nations to make it easier to exert supreme central control without resistance thus advancing the Federal Superstate

So its a conspiracy, is it?

MrD012

Nodin wrote: »

You've a source for that?

yes I have a source for everything I post , all of my posts are factual and to the point unlike many others here.

here it is


muslim pupils withdrawn from music lessons
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7866176/Muslim- pupils-withdrawn-from-music-lessons.html#


on the other hand I have yet to see any link to any article or document that outlines any benefits Islam has made to the UK society , if anyone on the pro side of this argument could furnish me with such , I'd be glad to read it and consider its contents .

LaminatorSGL

40000!? That's 1600% the size of St. Patrick's Cathedral. Not against the construction of places of worship, but surely you've got to question the motive behind the size of the project.

bbam

Live and let live.
Let them build away.

Their religion is no more dangerous than any other here already it's just at a different phase of its development. Christian religions have gone through bad phases of violence and intolerance.
I doubt it's any sort of take over from within.

NTMK

MrD012 wrote: »

However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified. Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.

a Yougov study also found that 11% of people would join the EDL. Its amazing the amount of intolerant idiots there are in the world on both sides

Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.

bit of a difference between condoning and seeing the terrorist POV. I can understand the feelings behind the IRA campaign but I'm completely and utterly against any form of militant republicanism

A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

As above

Godge

MrD012 wrote: »

However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified. Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.


.

Did the terrorist organisation the IRA ever have six per cent support of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland who insisted their bombings were fully justified? I would think so, maybe not at all times but certainly most of the last 30 years the hardcore support for IRA was higher than six per cent up there among Roman Catholics. Furthermore, the general support was probably higher than the 24% you quote.

As well as that, how many Roman Catholic priests over the last 80 years gave shelter and succour to those terrorists, particularly in rural areas, offering safe houses? How many of those priests, spoke out of both sides of their mouth, effectively condoning what these men did?

To use a Christian metaphor, we should look to our own sins before casting stones or the atheist version, those in glasshouses......

MrD012

bbam wrote: »

Live and let live.
Let them build away.

Their religion is no more dangerous than any other here already it's just at a different phase of its development.

again , nobody is talking about just the dangerous aspect alone , there are other aspects to Islamic culture that as I've shown in my linked articles are causing problems within the UK society.

poeticseraphim

Lads we know ourselves..wE know our national character....Us Irish are going to go Muslim in a big way....you know it is going to happen....
We have austerity and the collapse of the church here....we will see little old Irish ladies going to prayer and doing Ramadhan instead of lent...it is in our psyche this stuff!

MrD012

Still waiting on those plus side arguments , if anyone has any links to articles or studies done that show any benefits to western society , I would be more than happy to consider. however I suspect there is none , it seems to be all , lets bury our heads in the sand , ignore what has happened in the UK , sure everything will be ok

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

yes I have a source for everything I post , all of my posts are factual and to the point unlike many others here.

here it is


muslim pupils withdrawn from music lessons
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7866176/Muslim-pupils-withdrawn-from-music-lessons.html#
.

Nothing to do with Ramadan. As it stands, there is a school of thought within Islam that does say that music is unislamic. I fail to see the problem, however.

Nodin

LaminatorSGL wrote: »

40000!? That's 1600% the size of St. Patrick's Cathedral. Not against the construction of places of worship, but surely you've got to question the motive behind the size of the project.

Its not just a mosque, if you'd care to read the article.

Scofflaw

MrD012 wrote: »

let me guess .. European affairs ? Jean Monnet ?

would explain a lot

Do many of your colleagues share your viewpoint

First warning. You can either deal with a poster's arguments, or not. Ad hominem arguments of this kind are not acceptable and will be penalised.

moderately,
Scofflaw

MrD012

Nodin wrote: »

Nothing to do with Ramadan. As it stands, there is a school of thought within Islam that does say that music is unislamic. I fail to see the problem, however.

really , you cannot see how it might disrupt teachers and other pupils.

irishconvert

MrD012 wrote: »

Still waiting on those plus side arguments , if anyone has any links to articles or studies done that show any benefits to western society , I would be more than happy to consider. however I suspect there is none , it seems to be all , lets bury our heads in the sand , ignore what has happened in the UK , sure everything will be ok

What happened in the UK, please enligten us?!! I live in the UK, in an area which is approx 50% Muslim. No problems whatsoever, very nice place to live.

walshb

irishconvert wrote: »

What happened in the UK, please enligten us?!! I live in the UK, in an area which is approx 50% Muslim. No problems whatsoever, very nice place to live.

In one part of the UK, or do you move around?

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

really , you cannot see how it might disrupt teachers and other pupils.

Did you read the article? Children are withdrawn from the class, like the note exempting children from swimming or PE....

MrD012

irishconvert wrote: »

What happened in the UK, please enligten us?!! I live in the UK, in an area which is approx 50% Muslim. No problems whatsoever, very nice place to live.

I have already provided some links , I don't really want to re-post them . If you could look back and read some of the articles please.

irishconvert

MrD012 wrote: »

again , nobody is talking about just the dangerous aspect alone , there are other aspects to Islamic culture that as I've shown in my linked articles are causing problems within the UK society.

Let me tell you there is a hell of a lot more problems caused in UK society by white British youth.

Stop being so devisive, people are people, can't you just take people as you find them instead of basing all your views on what you read in the media? Please tell us about the Muslims you know in real life?

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

let me guess .. European affairs ? Jean Monnet ?

would explain a lot

Do many of your colleagues share your viewpoint

Completely wrong.

Explains a lot of what since you are wrong?

As it happens - yes.

MrD012

irishconvert wrote: »

Stop being so devisive, people are people, can't you just take people as you find them instead of basing all your views on what you read in the media? Please tell us about the Muslims you know in real life?

I'm not saying there are not good muslim people , there are , but all in all their way of life and culture is so different to ours that it poses problems , problems which the media have a duty to highlight and which should not be dismissed as unimportant .

walshb

MrD012 wrote: »

I'm not saying there are not good muslim people , there are , but all in all their way of life and culture is so different to ours that it poses problems , problems which the media have a duty to highlight and which should not be dismissed as unimportant .

Yes, but to many people here it is us who should be tolerant, accepting and willing to change. Not them! Forget asking them to maybe embarce our traditions or culture, or god forbid, to even abide by our legal laws.

irishconvert

MrD012 wrote: »

I'm not saying there are not good muslim people , there are , but all in all their way of life and culture is so different to ours that it poses problems , problems which the media have a duty to highlight and which should not be dismissed as unimportant .

I think you missed my question. Can you tell us about the Muslim people you know personally. Are they nice people? How do they treat you?

irishconvert

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but to many people here it is us who should be tolerant, accepting and willing to change. Not them! Forget asking them to maybe embarce our traditions or culture, or god forbid, to even abide by our legal laws.

Who is asking you to change?

MrD012

irishconvert wrote: »

I think you missed my question. Can you tell us about the Muslim people you know personally. Are they nice people? How do they treat you?

yes , I went to college with a Pakistani and he was a nice man , but there are lots of nice people in the world , thats not the issue , the issue is the impact of Islam and shariah on society , and as I've pointed through various links to the UK model , there are many difficulties , difficulties which cannot be brushed off or dismissed .

Also , who are the people funding the Mosque , what are their backgrounds , do we know anything at all about them . Also with the unemployment rate expected to reach 15.5% next year and no money in the Kitty , is it wise encouraging more immigration .

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

Still waiting on those plus side arguments , if anyone has any links to articles or studies done that show any benefits to western society , I would be more than happy to consider. however I suspect there is none , it seems to be all , lets bury our heads in the sand , ignore what has happened in the UK , sure everything will be ok

Still waiting for you to answer my question as to whether you have ever actually lived in the UK.

As for your linked sources - the only links I can find are to tabloid newspapers.

Given that the Levinson inquiry has done a sterling job of showing that what one reads in a tabloid is not necessarily a 'fact' could you perhaps provide a link to something other than a tabloid newspaper?
You could start with that one to the stats you quoted I asked you for about an hour ago?

irishconvert

MrD012 wrote: »

yes , I went to college with a Pakistani and he was a nice man ,

Why don't you then base your views on the people you know, rather than being a parrot and just repeating what other people tell you?

MrD012 wrote: »

but there are lots of nice people in the world , thats not the issue , the issue is the impact of Islam and shariah on society , and as I've pointed through various links to the UK model , there are many difficulties , difficulties which cannot be brushed off or dismissed .

There is no impact and it is extremely unlikely there will ever be any impact on Irish society. You are scaremongering and creating divisions.

MrD012 wrote: »

Also , who are the people funding the Mosque , what are their backgrounds , do we know anything at all about them .

Who cares? What has that got to do with anything? Since when was your background a factor in planning permission?

MrD012 wrote: »

Also with the unemployment rate expected to reach 15.5% next year and no money in the Kitty , is it wise encouraging more immigration .

With 30,000+ Muslims already here I assume it is to cater for them. The existing mosques are too small and people have to pray outside on the street.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

yes , I went to college with a Pakistani and he was a nice man , but there are lots of nice people in the world , thats not the issue , the issue is the impact of Islam and shariah on society , and as I've pointed through various links to the UK model , there are many difficulties , difficulties which cannot be brushed off or dismissed .

Also , who are the people funding the Mosque , what are their backgrounds , do we know anything at all about them . Also with the unemployment rate expected to reach 15.5% next year and no money in the Kitty , is it wise encouraging more immigration .

Why would a mosque encourage immigration?

Bannasidhe

Nodin wrote: »

Why would a mosque encourage immigration?

They'd come over here and take our prayers?

MrD012

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As for your linked sources - the only links I can find are to tabloid newspapers.

how about the Guardian Newspaper

shariah law religious courts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

how about the Guardian Newspaper

shariah law religious courts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

Theres also Jewish religous courts. Both are a bad idea. Neither can counter established law though.

You still haven't explained the link between the mosque and immigration.

irishconvert

MrD012 wrote: »

how about the Guardian Newspaper

shariah law religious courts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

These courts are optional, people don't have to go to them. They can choose to go to a standard UK family court. It is like the way the FA can charge a player, fine them, etc. It doesn't replace or supersede UK Law.

MrD012

Nodin wrote: »

Why would a mosque encourage immigration?

well obviously if you set up the facilities - schools , mosques , housing , communities etc , it is bound to be an attractive destination as opposed to somewhere that does not have any of these.

MrD012

irishconvert wrote: »

These courts are optional, people don't have to go to them. They can choose to go to a standard UK family court.

but then they are outcast and branded as "westerners" by their community. Also many are afraid to seek the help of the state .

wes

irishconvert wrote: »

These courts are optional, people don't have to go to them. They can choose to go to a standard UK family court. It is like the way the FA can charge a player, fine them, etc. It doesn't replace or supersede UK Law.

Again, they have had these sort of courts in the UK for over a 100 years with the Beth Din, a I pointed out earlier. Again, why you single out Muslims for this is bizarre, and I fail to see the relevance to here, as the UK has allowed this kind of thing for ages. As much as people like you want to pretend that this kind of thing is soley the province of Muslims, the fact remains is that the UK has allowed such courts for a century.

Either way, the building of a Mosque and community center in North Dublin has nothing to do with a system that has existed in the UK for at least a century.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

how about the Guardian Newspaper

shariah law religious courts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

Given your reluctance to answer my question I assume you have never lived in the UK so really have no idea how UK society functions -or doesn't- and all your arguments are based on what it says in the newspapers. Would this be correct?

Sharia Councils have no impact on Civil Laws - in exactly the same way as Canon Law has no impact on our Civil Laws but this did not prevent the RCC from giving it precedence when it came to clerical child abusers.

You do know that other religious groups, such as the Hasidim, have similar Councils - should we also object to Jews?

Lastly - these Councils the are not Courts of Law as you imply - the Civil Law of the State will always take precedence and only the State can administer justice that is legally binding.

irishconvert

Nodin wrote: »

Theres also Jewish religous courts. Both are a bad idea. Neither can counter established law though.

You still haven't explained the link between the mosque and immigration.

I can't really imagine a bunch of lads in Saudi thinking "Hey, they just build a new big mosque in Dublin, let's move there".

MrD012

wes wrote: »

Either way, the building of a Mosque and community center in North Dublin has nothing to do with a system that has existed in the UK for at least a century.

of course it does , sharia will be practiced here just like it is in the UK , causing much conflict with domestic law.

Benny_Cake

MrD012 wrote: »

Also , who are the people funding the Mosque , what are their backgrounds , do we know anything at all about them . Also with the unemployment rate expected to reach 15.5% next year and no money in the Kitty , is it wise encouraging more immigration .

Please explain to me why on earth Muslims would leave predominately Muslim countries (where, presumably, there are lots of mosques) and head to Ireland on the basis that someone is building another mosque here? Clongriffen isn't that special.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

of course it does , sharia will be practiced here just like it is in the UK , causing much conflict with domestic law.

There is no conflict - Civil Law always takes precedence.

Why are you singling out Muslims btw - it has been shown to you that Jews have exactly the same sort of Councils - do these not cause conflict with domestic law?