Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

Mucco

I posted yesterday asking for examples of the damage done to Britain by Muslims.
I live in Tower Hamlets, a 34% Muslim borough with the large Whitechapel mosque nearby. While passing the mosque last year, I got invited to their Eid party. I'm not quite sure what people are afraid of, maybe I can answer some of the fears based on my experience.

Nollog

lagente wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Plan-to-build-84-million-Islamic-center-in-Dublin-to-host-40000-Muslims-in-the-city-172632091.html#ixzz28drMaw1L

I personally object to this and I hope we quickly quash the argument that this will lead to creation of new jobs and investment, because the long term ramifications of this are large. We would not be allowed to even spread other religion on the street in many of the countries where the people are from, let alone build a cultural center for it. It is because of this religion that 9 year old girls can be married, and had sex with in countries like Saudi Arabia, beheadings of gays, etc. Islam has branches that are still stuck in the Middle Ages and worse, I'm not even going to argue on that point, and I think we should take active steps against it being built. There has been enough suffering due to unchecked religion here already.

I disagree with you.

MrD012

Mucco wrote: »

I live in Tower Hamlets, a 34% Muslim borough with the large Whitechapel mosque nearby. While passing the mosque last year, I got invited to their Eid party. I'm not quite sure what people are afraid of, maybe I can answer some of the fears based on my experience.

I doubt it , there are 3 million muslims living in the UK , you know 3 or 4 . Hardly representative of the overall picture .

MrD012

Mucco wrote: »

I posted yesterday asking for examples of the damage done to Britain by Muslims.

and if you read through some of the linked articles in previous posts you will have your examples

Bannasidhe

Mucco wrote: »

I posted yesterday asking for examples of the damage done to Britain by Muslims.
I live in Tower Hamlets, a 34% Muslim borough with the large Whitechapel mosque nearby. While passing the mosque last year, I got invited to their Eid party. I'm not quite sure what people are afraid of, maybe I can answer some of the fears based on my experience.

You lucky so 'n' so. Wonderful food at Eid parties - and no drunks to content with. Bliss.

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

I doubt it , there are 3 million muslims living in the UK , you know 3 or 4 . Hardly representative of the overall picture .

Do you actually read what people say?

You think that living in a borough where 34 out of every 100 people are Muslim means he will know 3 or 4?

Yeah - if he never sets foot outside the door. :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

MrD012 wrote: »

and if you read through some of the linked articles in previous posts you will have your examples

Still waiting for the link for those Stats?

Any chance of that happening in this lifetime?

SeanW

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I have.

You have linked articles in right wing sensationalist newspapers about a few isolated incidents.

I wasn't aware that the Guardian was a "right wing sensationalist newspaper"

Opposing a mosque on the grounds that Islam as a religion should not be encouraged is nothing short of simple and ignorant bigotry.

Perhaps, but the Wahabbist and Salafist sects of Islam are another story. Opposing a mosque and sectarian school if said centre may have Saudi trained Imam and Saudi funded textbooks preaching hatred, isolationism and sedition would be just common sense.

The entire pro-Mosque, multi-culti left on this thread was given, for example, a review in the Guardian (that right wing sensationlist rag) about the problems of the Sharia courts (and they are law courts) in the U.K. Bias against women lack of transparency. Yet noone has contested it.

But all I've seen from the multi-culti left is non answers: "look at the R.C. church" "atheists" and insults like "scaremongering" "xenophobe" and "right wing" or "because I know some sane Muslims, Wahabbist Islam can't possibly be a threat to anyone ..."

MrD012

JustinDee wrote: »

but I can relax safe in the knowledge that they're not actually trying to take over my country, rape its women or steal my job.

thats fine , nobody as far as I Know has even mentioned any of these things

what I am saying is you have to look at the issues that are well documented throughout the British Media in relation to the impact of Islamic culture in western society

Mucco

and if you read through some of the linked articles in previous posts you will have your examples

I don't read the scare stories you see in the papers, they all tend to be one-sided. I would prefer to answer your fears based on my experience. So let me know what it is you are afraid of, and I will do my best.

Nodin

lagente wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head (.....) all of this?

...because its hysterical shite?

MrD012 wrote:

Do we really need this sort of thing right now, take a look at this Muslim protest in Dublin

People protesting? Dear god, the horror. We should ban protests.

SeanW

MrD012 wrote: »

Do we really need this sort of thing right now, take a look at this Muslim protest in Dublin .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SggQhHdZ1Y&feature=youtu.be

Nodin wrote:

People protesting? Dear god, the horror. We should ban protests.

Obviously you didn't watch the video.

"Allah Hu Akhbar"
"USA YOU WILL PAY!!!!"
Black flags, of course, men at the front women at the back.

Does the multi-culti left really want to encourage people like that?

MrD012

Nodin wrote: »

...because its hysterical shite?



People protesting? Dear god, the horror. We should ban protests.

what is it again they are chanting ?

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

"Allah Hu Akhbar"

"USA YOU WILL PAY!!!!"

Does the multi-culti left really want more people like that?

More people protesting on the street? I'm easy with it, meself. You may feel more at home in a totalitarian enviroment though.

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

More people protesting on the street? I'm easy with it, meself. You may feel more at home in a totalitarian enviroment though.

No, I mean extremist nutcases which is what those protesters are.

Clearly they are not capable of sharing a secular society with other faiths. And those of no faith, apostates, blashphemers etc.

walshb

I guess if there is a sizable population of muslims in the area then why not allow them to build a mosque? I mean, for years we were trotting all over the globe building churches. I can see both sides of the debate.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

what is it again they are chanting ?

I've no idea. You obviously know full well what they're on about though, so why not just cut to the chase and say what it is.

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

what I am saying is you have to look at the issues that are well documented throughout the British Media in relation to the impact of Islamic culture in western society

I would think your faith in cherry-picked articles on the internet would go a bit deeper than that, especially given the following, to which you have still not replied to:

You said "but its not pre-conceived or even obscene, its factual" in reply to my saying "Of course there should be border-controls and immigration policies. Just not some obscene pre-conceived decision based on race, religion or ethnicity as I illiustrated earlier has already been evident in Ireland".
This followed limp tosh as you tried to pigeon-hole me as some "Eurocrat or something"

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

No, I mean extremist nutcases which is what those protesters are..

They didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, attack the cops....I don't really think a shower of peaceful protestors can be labelled "extremist nutcases" on that basis.

SeanW wrote: »

Clearly they are not capable of sharing a secular society with other faiths. And those of no faith, apostates, blashphemers etc.

Some people say the same about youth defence, yet here we are...

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

I've no idea. You obviously know full well what they're on about though, so why not just cut to the chase and say what it is.

They were screaming "Allah Hu Akhbar" and threatening the United States, for the "crime" of not being the totalitarian society that they, the Islamic nutcases, demand.

You want to talk about totalitarianism, that is what these protesters want!

I wonder if these are the kind of people you want to have more of in our society? If so, I suspect that your position is guided by a certain naivete.

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

They didn't kill anyone, burn anything down, attack the cops....I don't really think a shower of peaceful protestors can be labelled "extremist nutcases" on that basis.

Peaceful? They were threatening America!

Some people say the same about youth defence, yet here we are...

Meh. Here we go again. Are you actually capable of answering a point raised without saying "look at something else, like the Catholic church?"

MrD012

walshb wrote: »

I guess if there is a sizable population of muslims in the area then why not allow them to build a mosque?

who said there was ,

where is your evidence to suggest there is a large number of muslims living in clongriffin ? As far as I know the population is quite diverse but it certainly will not be if the Mosque goes ahead.

JustinDee

SeanW wrote: »

Obviously you didn't watch the video.

"Allah Hu Akhbar"
"USA YOU WILL PAY!!!!"
Black flags, of course, men at the front women at the back.

Does the multi-culti left really want to encourage people like that?

Firstly, we get the Roman Catholic equivalent of Allahu Akbar at 6pm every day on RTE1 or at dinner time in many Irish hospitals.
Secondly, apply the same thin skin the next time there is an anti-war protest in Dublin or elsewhere where there are plenty of folk from far more similar backgrounds to yourself shouting some pretty tawdry anti-US pap. What to do? Deport them? Imprison them? Taze them?
The black flag is their flag that represents Muhammad. What did you think it was? Death, like Irish republicans used before and some still do? I've heard worse sh*te from the likes of Richard Boyd-Barrett and the Irish supporters for their chosen Palestinian cause du jour.

Of course the protests are utterly ridiculous. The video is hardly government project and its not like there hasn't been the same sort of pap from their side littering the web. Taxi drivers clogging up Dublin streets over being clamped for blocking entrances to hotels at the airport are also daft.

On another note, it is also a dream day for the likes of G2, who you will admit are well used to dealing with terrorism, that supporters or sympathisers to an extremist mission are out in the open for IDing and profiling.

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

They were screaming "Allah Hu Akhbar".

Which means "god is great" last I knew. Your point? Should this make me scared or something?

SeanW wrote: »

and threatening the United States, for the "crime" of not being the totalitarian society that they, the Islamic nutcases, demand.".

Theres doubtless a plethora of reasons they have it in for the USA, some of them entirely justified. You seem to be adding your own narrative as to what their beliefs are, which I'm not convinced is accurate.

SeanW wrote: »

I wonder if these are the kind of people you want to have more of in our society? If so, I suspect that your position is guided by a certain naivete.

I'm a 43 year old Republican. It's safe to say I have a different level of "naivete" and fear threshold than you do.

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

Peaceful? They were threatening America!?"

O the horror!!!!!! Any place with a couple of nuclear powered carriers isn't too worried about lads with placards.

SeanW wrote: »

Meh. Here we go again. Are you actually capable of answering a point raised without saying "look at something else, like the Catholic church?"

It's called "context". Examining any group in isolation makes them look like extremists who'll cause the end of society/the world/eat all the hobnobs.

MrD012

JustinDee wrote: »

Taxi drivers clogging up Dublin streets over being clamped for blocking entrances to hotels at the airport are also daft.

but taxi drivers are not inciting people to hatred against another country ?

walshb

MrD012 wrote: »

who said there was ,

where is your evidence to suggest there is a large number of muslims living in clongriffin ? As far as I know the population is quite diverse but it certainly will not be if the Mosque goes ahead.

I used the word "if," did you see that? And yes, if there is, and if there is a demand for it, why not? Why block it just because you have a hunch that there will be conflict, or worse!

JustinDee

MrD012 wrote: »

but taxi drivers are not inciting people to hatred against another country ?

Why focus just on the fair-minded and open-to-all darlings in cabs? I mentioned protests by other groups too who similarly 'condemn' the US, UK etc or which ever cause takes their fancy at this particular stage of their life.
Don't forget either that I mentioned the plus side of open protests like this.

MrD012

walshb wrote: »

Why block it just because you have a hunch that there will be conflict, or worse!

but its not a hunch , its factually proven that in the UK there are major problems when Islamic culture meets Western culture , lets be clear about one thing , I have no hatred whatsoever for any muslim , but I love Ireland and Irish Society and do not want to see the same happen here that has happened in the UK

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

but its not a hunch , its factually proven that in the UK there are major problems when Islamic culture meets Western culture , lets be clear about one thing , I have no hatred whatsoever for any muslim , but I love Ireland and Irish Society and do not want to see the same happen here that has happened in the UK

"major"? I think not.

K-9

MrD012 wrote: »

but taxi drivers are not inciting people to hatred against another country ?

Any chance of a link to the story about Muslim women seeking protection from the BNP?

walshb

MrD012 wrote: »

but its not a hunch , its factually proven that in the UK there are major problems when Islamic culture meets Western culture , lets be clear about one thing , I have no hatred whatsoever for any muslim , but I love Ireland and Irish Society and do not want to see the same happen here that has happened in the UK

I see your point, but let's give it a go? No? There is enough conflict in life anyway. Who's to say that this project might not be of some benefit? Let's try to be optimistic.

Benny_Cake

MrD012 wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Why block it just because you have a hunch that there will be conflict, or worse!

but its not a hunch , its factually proven that in the UK there are major problems when Islamic culture meets Western culture , lets be clear about one thing , I have no hatred whatsoever for any muslim , but I love Ireland and Irish Society and do not want to see the same happen here that has happened in the UK

Well, religious freedom is guaranteed by article 44 of the Constitution. If you wish to see this article amended to protect freedom of worship to everyone except Muslims, I suggest you start a campaign to do so.

Strange that so many Irish people love in the UK if it's such a hellhole.

NTMK

SeanW wrote: »

They were screaming "Allah Hu Akhbar" and threatening the United States, for the "crime" of not being the totalitarian society that they, the Islamic nutcases, demand.

You want to talk about totalitarianism, that is what these protesters want!

I wonder if these are the kind of people you want to have more of in our society? If so, I suspect that your position is guided by a certain naivete.

you do realise Allah Hu Akbar just means Allah the almighty/god is great.

as for the anti american rhetoric everyone is very capable of that. hell when the queen was in ireland look at all the republicans that crawl out of the woodwork to protest about the queens visit

totalitarianism is the desire of many extremist groups of all races and creeds theres multiple examples of this **** in ireland.

The against side has yet to give a concrete evidence that islams as a whole is dangerous other than daily mail ramblings and a couple of isolated incidents which can be attributed to religious nutters that exist in every religion?

MrD012 have you ever lived in the UK?

Bannasidhe

Nodin wrote: »

I've no idea. You obviously know full well what they're on about though, so why not just cut to the chase and say what it is.

Allahu Akbar (Arabic: الله أكبر) is an Islamic phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning "God is greater" or "God is [the] greatest"


How very dare they!

Nodin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Allahu Akbar (Arabic: الله أكبر) is an Islamic phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning "God is greater" or "God is [the] greatest"


How very dare they!

O I got that bit. I thought there was more going on...

On a scale of 1 to 10, how scared should that make me btw? I don't want to feel left out.

philologos

Benny_Cake wrote: »

MrD012 wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Why block it just because you have a hunch that there will be conflict, or worse!

but its not a hunch , its factually proven that in the UK there are major problems when Islamic culture meets Western culture , lets be clear about one thing , I have no hatred whatsoever for any muslim , but I love Ireland and Irish Society and do not want to see the same happen here that has happened in the UK

Well, religious freedom is guaranteed by article 44 of the Constitution. If you wish to see this article amended to protection freedom of worship to everyone except Muslims, I suggest you start a campaign to do so.

Strange that so many Irish people love in the UK if it's such a hellhole.

Indeed why would I subject myself to living in what is clearly a majority Muslim area of east London if it was an awful place to live.

By the by the best principle in these cases is to think what if it were you? What if Christians or atheists were deemed one day to be extreme. What then?

The best policy is to defend liberty even if I disagree hugely with Islam.

Bannasidhe

philologos wrote: »

Indeed why would I subject myself to living in what is clearly a majority Muslim area of east London if it was an awful place to live.

By the by the best principle in these cases is to think what if it were you? What if Christians or atheists were deemed one day to be extreme. What then?

The best policy is to defend liberty even if I disagree hugely with Islam.

Phil - I don't get to say this often but I agree 100% with you.

Bannasidhe

Nodin wrote: »

O I got that bit. I thought there was more going on...

On a scale of 1 to 10, how scared should that make me btw? I don't want to feel left out.

Hmmmm...interesting question.

How much impact does people shouting Allahu Akbar several thousand miles away on my life?

Zero.

How much does having a grotto less than 50 metres from my house?

Quite a lot (parking and endless rosaries over a cheap P.A. system) every May.


How scared do either of these make me on a scale of 1-10?

About -100.


Oh dear - should we both feel left out - or even Multi-Culti left out?

Shea O'Meara

Spending any money on somewhere to worship a being of the imagination is ridiculous; the money should go to the hungry.

That said, all organised religions have crazed and insane elements.
As long as their off-the-wall beliefs are not forced on others, I don't care what the fellah next to me on the Luas believes.

With obvious exceptions, we accept the Protestants, the Catholics and the Jews...what's another fantasy in the mix?

And please please, don't take the middle American/Fox view that just because someone is Muslim they are criminally insane. You know, like every Priest is a child molester and every prody a racist

philologos

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Spending any money on somewhere to worship a being of the imagination is ridiculous; the money should go to the hungry.

That said, all organised religions have crazed and insane elements.
As long as their off-the-wall beliefs are not forced on others, I don't care what the fellah next to me on the Luas believes.

With obvious exceptions, we accept the Protestants, the Catholics and the Jews...what's another fantasy in the mix?

And please please, don't take the middle American/Fox view that just because someone is Muslim they are criminally insane. You know, like every Priest is a child molester and every prody a racist

This is about a civil rights issue. It's not about whether or not you happen to think God is a figment of peoples imagination (without good reason).

Boards.ie has an atheism and agnosticism forum that might be suited to your needs.

Corkfeen

MrD012 wrote: »

but nobody is doing that , they are opposing the mosque after studying the UK society model and realising its not for them .

can the pro mosque side show me one report that details the benefits of Islam to western society ?

because if you cant do the above well then its just all hot air with no substance from your arguments.

Reading some daily mail articles and a times articles doesn't mean you have any particularly impressive understanding of anything to be honest. I'm not a fan of any religion but I also accept that any religion should be allowed to build its place of worship as it is a part of our freedom of religion. To subvert this would lessen the democracy that we live in.

You're choosing to pick on a specific demographic as you hold a rather xenophobic paranoia over Ireland falling under sharia law which is a bit of BNP scare tactic. Please provide us with the link to the muslim woman asking for assistance from the BNP, sounds like a jew asking for help off Nazis.... Also if the effects which you refer to are so significant, I assume that plenty of peer reviewed studies must exist about it so please produce them. Since you view yourself to be rather knowledgeable on the subject, you should have no issue with producing some.

alexonhisown

MrD012 wrote: »

who said there was ,

where is your evidence to suggest there is a large number of muslims living in clongriffin ? As far as I know the population is quite diverse but it certainly will not be if the Mosque goes ahead.

I live in clongriffin and I would rather have lots of Muslims move in here instead of lots of Irish undesirables.

walshb

alexonhisown wrote: »

I live in clongriffin and I would rather have lots of Muslims move in here instead of lots of Irish scumbags.

What about Muslim scumbags?

Isn't the word scumbag banned here?

[MOD]Report problem posts rather than trying to play mod yourself to score points.[/MOD]

iopener

If its just about jobs why don't we start building a few abortion clinics around the country.there's plenty of work in that line business from the Irish ladies who have to travel abroad.

SeanW

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Allahu Akbar (Arabic: الله أكبر) is an Islamic phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning "God is greater" or "God is [the] greatest"

Normally used along side phrases like "USA YOU WILL PAY!!" "Europe, your 9/11 is on its way" or "Behead those who Islam is violent" or "Freedom go to hell"

Going back to your good friend, "context" which is more alarming?

"Laugh at those who insult our Prophet. Allah Hu Akhbar"
or
"Jews, your real Holocaust is coming. Allah Hu Akhbar"

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

Normally used along side phrases like "USA YOU WILL PAY!!" "Europe, your 9/11 is on its way" or "Behead those who Islam is violent" or "Freedom go to hell"

Going back to your good friend, "context" which is more alarming?

"Laugh at those who insult our Prophet. Allah Hu Akhbar"
or
"Jews, your real Holocaust is coming. Allah Hu Akhbar"

...but it wasn't used besides any of those, bar the first, so whats your point (other than the usual 'OMG theyre comin for us').

Bannasidhe

SeanW wrote: »

Normally used along side phrases like "USA YOU WILL PAY!!" "Europe, your 9/11 is on its way" or "Behead those who Islam is violent" or "Freedom go to hell"

Going back to your good friend, "context" which is more alarming?

"Laugh at those who insult our Prophet. Allah Hu Akhbar"
or
"Jews, your real Holocaust is coming. Allah Hu Akhbar"

Personally, context apparently being everything, I vote for the 'God Hates Fags' signs as the more alarming.

Bloodwing

SeanW wrote: »

Normally used along side phrases like "USA YOU WILL PAY!!" "Europe, your 9/11 is on its way" or "Behead those who Islam is violent" or "Freedom go to hell"

Going back to your good friend, "context" which is more alarming?

"Laugh at those who insult our Prophet. Allah Hu Akhbar"
or
"Jews, your real Holocaust is coming. Allah Hu Akhbar"

I was at the protest in Dublin that the video linked to shows. There was a small group of fools near the front of the protest who were responsible for the anti USA chants. The organizers did their best to keep them quite but they didn't have much joy. If you watch the video again you'll see the group walking past the cameraman just as the chant starts. The vast majority of the people present were not impressed with the small group and as you can see in the video they didn't take part in the chant.

SeanW

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Personally, context apparently being everything, I vote for the 'God Hates Fags' signs as the more alarming.

I wonder where the nearest branch of the Westboro Baptist Church is ...