Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

irishconvert

SeanW wrote: »

Will the school teach through one of Irelands national languages (English/Irish) or Arabic?

I ask because in the U.K. where the Saudis are heavily involved in Islamic "education" the schools teach through arabaic and their textbooks teach children things like how to do Sharia compliant amputations, teach children that "All religions other than Islam are worthless" and other central tenets of Wahabbism.

I suggest you view the documentary "Undercover Mosque" to see what passes for normal in day-to-day Islamic education and preaching in some parts. Much of it linked to Saudi Arabia.

I have no issue with this mosque and school being built if it's just going to be normal people who just happen to pray 5 times a day. My concern would be with Saudi/Wahabbist involvement, which IMHO should be a concern to any sane person.

This documentary was based on just ONE mosque (which is funded by Saudi and is pretty much run for Saudi kids). Have you any idea of how many mosques there are in UK? There must be up to 10,000, with no Saudi infulence, run by Pakisatnis, Indians, Turks, Indonesians, Malaysians, Africans. I understand your concern about Wahabbism but to imply that even a minority of mosques in UK are run by Saudi is disingenuous.

philologos

RandomName2 wrote: »

Religion may != cultural background but is nevertheless ∈ cultural background

On the opposite end of the argument: is anybody actually claiming that there are currently 40,000 Muslims in the catchment area of this proposed mosque? If there isn't, it does beg the question - why build it?

Why is 40,000 the magic number for building a mosque? Why us it any of your business if people want to build a house of worship near you? Freedom of religion means that people can build a church, a mosque, a gudwara or a synagogue, how does it affect you, and why is it your business?

Nodin

irishconvert wrote: »

Oh yes, I hear they are building a super pub in Dubai. How many Irish people do you think will move there because of it???! :rolleyes:

I was wondering why I felt drawn to the east...all they need now is allow betting on the camel racing and sell batter burgers outside and I'm gone.....

Memnoch

Nodin wrote: »

I was wondering why I felt drawn to the east...all they need now is allow betting on the camel racing and sell batter burgers outside and I'm gone.....

But you'll take their jobs and the moment you arrive all their women will lose all sense of propriety and start taking their clothes off. There'll be mass orgies in the streets. And before you know it the population of Dubai will be overrun with drunk Irishmen performing riverdance in the desert.

Nodin

Memnoch wrote: »

But you'll take their jobs and the moment you arrive all their women will lose all sense of propriety and start taking their clothes off. There'll be mass orgies in the streets. And before you know it the population of Dubai will be overrun with drunk Irishmen performing riverdance in the desert.

...puttin bombs under cars, pukin in the streets and pissin up against the walls of the mosques. Their culture will collapse in a terrible apocalypse of battered sausages and drink. Somebody must stand up and say "No" to the PC multi-culti brigade.

lagente

jmayo wrote: »

seriously expect someone or somebody to admit they are answering to someone who has been denied entry to countries due to his espousal of hatred and violence ?

No matter how you try and spin it that there are no links between people who are seen as pro violence by other western governments (i.e. Britain, France) and the islamic centre in Clonskeagh, you can't change the facts that there are some links.
The very fact that this guy has visited the centre, has been part of an organization that has links to the centre is not up for discussion.

The only things that are up for discussion is how involved is the imman in the centre and does he answer to Qaradawi.

Either way there are serious questions there and you glossing over this is typical burying ones head in the sand.

BTW Al-Qaradawi has interesting opinions on wife beating, rape, female circumcision, homosexuals to name but a few.
All opinions that would be in direct opposition to our freedoms in this country.
Oh and he is no fan of even fellow muslims, calling shias heretics.

Excellent post jmayo. You certainly did your homework on what's going on.

So Yusuf Al-Qaradawi and the European Council for Fatwa and Research (Based in Ireland) want militancy against the Gaddafis
and Assad, but on Bahrain his excuse is that it's unfortunately a sectarian war, so no . Just a little selective perhaps? Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't a sectarian war what they are working towards in Syria?
Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that he and the ECFR like so many other Egyptian Clerics are paid by Saudi Wahabbists. I wonder does he know any of the Irish Salafists gone to Syria? I bet he knows all too much about that . I bet he even hooked them up with a few well educated individuals from fine states such as Egypt, Yemen, Iraq etc.
1 word is sufficient and vital to deal with the treacherous individuals of the ECFR: OUT.

ECFR is based in Dublin. Strong emphasis on Ummah. Ummah this, Ummah that. (it's all just a mask for Saudi agenda for Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc.) No wonder the Ummah brigade in Syria is led from Ireland.
Makes sense why BinLaden said Ireland was ready for Islam. Sure,
his rich Wahhabi buddies were paying these rats.

This is not "coming here for a better life". This is behaving more like Saudis political rats akin to what has happened in Egypt. No wonder the distrust between the Shia and certain Sunni branches (Salafists, Wahhabists) here. Saudi is the problem. No to the Mosque-IslamCulturalCenter, and let's nip the immigration issue in the bud right now.

wes

lagente wrote: »

(it's all just a mask for Saudi agenda for Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc.)

He is from Qatar, who have there plenty of there own money.......

lagente

wes wrote: »

He is from Qatar, who have there plenty of there own money.......

Truly an excellent post.

Nodin

lagente wrote: »

Excellent post (...........) bud right now.

Whats "immigration" got to do with any of this?

lagente

Nodin wrote: »

Whats "immigration" got to do with any of this?

Another genius.

wes

lagente wrote: »

Truly an excellent post.

Far better, than assuming that some cleric is a part of the Saudi plans for the Middle East. Last time I checked he wasn't a member of Saudi royal family, or one of there one pet clerics. Sure, he is a dodgy sort, but you really have no basis to make the claim that you made.

Nodin

lagente wrote: »

Another genius.

Would you care to answer the question? What has a mosque to do with immigration policy?

RandomName2

Nodin wrote: »

pukin in the streets and pissin up against the walls of the mosques. Their culture will collapse in a terrible apocalypse of battered sausages and drink. Somebody must stand up and say "No" to the PC multi-culti brigade.

Well in Spanish, Greek and Cypriot resorts, local opposition and increased costs are tempered by significantly increased revenue through touris-... oh. You were being sarcastic.

philologos wrote: »

Why is 40,000 the magic number for building a mosque? Why us it any of your business if people want to build a house of worship near you? Freedom of religion means that people can build a church, a mosque, a gudwara or a synagogue, how does it affect you, and why is it your business?

40,000 is the magic number because it is essentially apparently equal to the entire population of Muslims in this country, according to official figures. So notwithstanding that there are already mosques in the country, including a very large one in south Dublin, there are plans to create one in north Dublin which could service the entire country (well despite the fact that its catchment area would be... limited to north Dublin).

I will just say that I am just going on that linked article as to that pretty straggering figure of 40,000, but I've heard noone refute it so far.

And for what its worth - surely you don't need a house of worship to be free to pursue your religion. I don't know of any sikh temple or for pedants.. one to zoroastrianism - does that mean that people of those respective faiths no longer have freedom of religion?

Nodin

RandomName2 wrote: »

,..................

And for what its worth - surely you don't need a house of worship to be free to pursue your religion. I don't know of any sikh temple or for pedants.. one to zoroastrianism - does that mean that people of those respective faiths no longer have freedom of religion?

There's a Sikh temple in Sandymount.

If people want to build some religous building, they should be free to do so, normal restrictions applying.

wes

RandomName2 wrote: »

And for what its worth - surely you don't need a house of worship to be free to pursue your religion. I don't know of any sikh temple or for pedants.. one to zoroastrianism - does that mean that people of those respective faiths no longer have freedom of religion?

There is a Gurdwara here......

Also, if there were enough Zoroastrians here, I am sure if they wanted a temple, they could pull there money together, and get one built. Now, if someone was to prevent them, to do so, even if they had money, planning permission etc, then it would be violating there freedom or Religion.

Not having a place of worship doesn't violate anyone Religous freedom. However, stopping them from building one, would be a violation.

MrD012

This Islamic Group who claim to be "Spearheading Ireland's Transformation" seem like really nice people allright.
http://islamicvanguards.com/

MrD012

This is a direct quote taken from the Islamic Vanguards website Ireland

Buying the west piece by piece

"If there’s one thing the west yearns, it is money. For it has worshiped this false god without fail for as long as they have departed from the worship of the true God. And it is this weakness, nay addiction that will see what they hold precious being wrenched from their spindly hands.

Already as we speak vast swathes of the London metropolis are in Muslim hands, Dublin is set to follow as the wealth that Allah has blessed His servants with is used to reclaim the land for His glory.

Qatar pretty much owns everything from Chelsea Barracks to the new Olympic Village – not to mention the Shard, other nations have purchased major stores and whole neighbourhoods. As is said – there’s more than one way to skin a cat!"

link to Article

stevedublin

MrD012 wrote: »

This is a direct quote taken from the Islamic Vanguards website Ireland

Buying the west piece by piece

"If there’s one thing the west yearns, it is money. For it has worshiped this false god without fail for as long as they have departed from the worship of the true God. And it is this weakness, nay addiction that will see what they hold precious being wrenched from their spindly hands.

Already as we speak vast swathes of the London metropolis are in Muslim hands, Dublin is set to follow as the wealth that Allah has blessed His servants with is used to reclaim the land for His glory.

Qatar pretty much owns everything from Chelsea Barracks to the new Olympic Village – not to mention the Shard, other nations have purchased major stores and whole neighbourhoods. As is said – there’s more than one way to skin a cat!"

link to Article

So the Muslims have bought lots of property in London, whats wrong with that?

Stheno

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well in Spanish, Greek and Cypriot resorts, local opposition and increased costs are tempered by significantly increased revenue through touris-... oh. You were being sarcastic.




40,000 is the magic number because it is essentially apparently equal to the entire population of Muslims in this country, according to official figures. So notwithstanding that there are already mosques in the country, including a very large one in south Dublin, there are plans to create one in north Dublin which could service the entire country (well despite the fact that its catchment area would be... limited to north Dublin).

I will just say that I am just going on that linked article as to that pretty straggering figure of 40,000, but I've heard noone refute it so far.

And for what its worth - surely you don't need a house of worship to be free to pursue your religion. I don't know of any sikh temple or for pedants.. one to zoroastrianism - does that mean that people of those respective faiths no longer have freedom of religion?

There were just shy of 50,000 Muslims here when the census was done last year, and the original article in the OP references that there are 40,000 Muslims living in Dublin

The capacity of this new mosque will be for 5,000 people to attend services at a time, if you think of it that's only 1/8th of the Muslim population in Dublin, and given that they have SCR and Clonskeagh they probably need another mosque to serve a population of that size.

old hippy

MrD012 wrote: »

This Islamic Group who claim to be "Spearheading Ireland's Transformation" seem like really nice people allright.
http://islamicvanguards.com/

If you have time, energy & inclination; I'm sure you can find plenty of fringe nutters to back up your scaremongering and sensationalism.

A mosque is going to be built. That is all. Not armageddon.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

This Islamic Group who claim to be "Spearheading Ireland's Transformation" seem like really nice people allright.
http://islamicvanguards.com/

Whats that to do with the mosque?

southsiderosie

lagente wrote: »

Truly an excellent post.

lagente wrote: »

Another genius.

MOD NOTE:

These kinds of one-liners add little to the thread and are, frankly, insulting to other posters. If this is all you've got, don't bother posting here again.

philologos

MrD012 wrote: »

This Islamic Group who claim to be "Spearheading Ireland's Transformation" seem like really nice people allright.
http://islamicvanguards.com/

Firstly as other people have told you. This us hardly representative.

Secondly I support free speech. That includes what is written on that site. We should remove red tape from speech. It should be up to individuals to moderate views through dialogue. It shouldn't be a matter for the police. You don't have a right not to be offended.

philologos

RandomName2 wrote: »

40,000 is the magic number because it is essentially apparently equal to the entire population of Muslims in this country, according to official figures. So notwithstanding that there are already mosques in the country, including a very large one in south Dublin, there are plans to create one in north Dublin which could service the entire country (well despite the fact that its catchment area would be... limited to north Dublin).

I will just say that I am just going on that linked article as to that pretty straggering figure of 40,000, but I've heard noone refute it so far.

And for what its worth - surely you don't need a house of worship to be free to pursue your religion. I don't know of any sikh temple or for pedants.. one to zoroastrianism - does that mean that people of those respective faiths no longer have freedom of religion?

How does 40,000 relate to the mosque exactly?
Who are you to say that they can't? Churches are constructed and if Muslims want to build a mosque with their own money. Why not? Why should you restrict the right to freedom if religion?

By the by there are gudwaras here and there's no reason why Dublin won't have one soon.

irishconvert

MrD012 wrote: »

This Islamic Group who claim to be "Spearheading Ireland's Transformation" seem like really nice people allright.
http://islamicvanguards.com/

MrD012 wrote: »

This is a direct quote taken from the Islamic Vanguards website Ireland

Buying the west piece by piece

"If there’s one thing the west yearns, it is money. For it has worshiped this false god without fail for as long as they have departed from the worship of the true God. And it is this weakness, nay addiction that will see what they hold precious being wrenched from their spindly hands.

Already as we speak vast swathes of the London metropolis are in Muslim hands, Dublin is set to follow as the wealth that Allah has blessed His servants with is used to reclaim the land for His glory.

Qatar pretty much owns everything from Chelsea Barracks to the new Olympic Village – not to mention the Shard, other nations have purchased major stores and whole neighbourhoods. As is said – there’s more than one way to skin a cat!"

link to Article

I give up, you win, let's not build the mosque :rolleyes:

Palmach

old hippy wrote: »

If you have time, energy & inclination; I'm sure you can find plenty of fringe nutters to back up your scaremongering and sensationalism.

A mosque is going to be built. That is all. Not armageddon.

Who will be behind the Mosque? Who will run it? Will those running be for example members of Hizb ut Tahrir? Will it be Sheikh Satardien who said there was extremism prevalent in the people at the top in Irish Islam? Will RTE be doing an Undercover Mosque type programme in 10 years time? Is anyone asking these questions? I except the usual loony lefties, multicultural fanatics will jump up and won and shout WACIST! at any questioning this centre but I'd like to thin kt eh authorities will ask the questions above.

I have to say the size and scale looks like Islamic supremacist coat trailing to me. Why not build 3 or 4 smaller mosques for the same money?

Nodin

Palmach wrote: »

Who will be behind (.........) money?

I'd call "Islamophobia" rather than racist. Doubtless had they announced three-four mosques we'd be hearing "they're takin over" hysteria in a slightly different form.

old hippy

Palmach wrote: »

Who will be behind the Mosque? Who will run it? Will those running be for example members of Hizb ut Tahrir? Will it be Sheikh Satardien who said there was extremism prevalent in the people at the top in Irish Islam? Will RTE be doing an Undercover Mosque type programme in 10 years time? Is anyone asking these questions? I except the usual loony lefties, multicultural fanatics will jump up and won and shout WACIST! at any questioning this centre but I'd like to thin kt eh authorities will ask the questions above.

I have to say the size and scale looks like Islamic supremacist coat trailing to me. Why not build 3 or 4 smaller mosques for the same money?

I smell... cliches. You smell... extremists.

thebman

Seems illogical to me to be honest.

Any evidence we have the population of muslims to justify it?

Or is it a case of if you build it they will come?

Because we have a massive unemployment crisis and don't need anybody to come at the moment TBH. Lets solve our existing problems before we decide to get creative.

Nodin

thebman wrote: »

Seems illogical to me to be honest.

Any evidence we have the population of muslims to justify it?

Or is it a case of if you build it they will come?

Because we have a massive unemployment crisis and don't need anybody to come at the moment TBH. Lets solve our existing problems before we decide to get creative.

Any chance you might read the thread?

What basis does any of that have in fact? If they're from outside the EU, they can't just come in, and if they're within the EU why would they?

Secondly, why would anyone arrive to live in a country just because it had a church/mosque/temple in it?

Palmach

Nodin wrote: »

I'd call "Islamophobia" rather than racist. Doubtless had they announced three-four mosques we'd be hearing "they're takin over" hysteria in a slightly different form.

I am Islamophobic and for good reasons. This Mosque as proposed is too big and designed to mark territory. They should be told to scale it down.

Nodin

Palmach wrote: »

I am Islamophobic and for good reasons. This Mosque as proposed is too big and designed to mark territory. .

Total nonsense. Thankfully we've moved on from some fear driven 16th century view of the world, for the most part.

Palmach wrote: »

They should be told to scale it down.

Once they abide by the normal rules, they should be treated as any other citizens of this state.

mcallistermizy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

wes wrote: »

You'd have a fair point, if most of the countries schools, weren't already run on a similar basis.......

No they're not.

Schools with Catholic patronage may give preference to Catholic children but accept non-Catholic children as well with no issue. In some cases, classes may be more non-Catholic than Catholic.

I can't imagine the same happening for a school built within a "Muslim centre". For one, no non-Muslim parent would likely ever send their child there and secondly I doubt the school itself would even accept a Non-Muslim child.

There's non Muslim in North Dublin National Muslim School

mcallistermizy

MrD012 wrote: »

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Please explain to me why on earth Muslims would leave predominately Muslim countries (where, presumably, there are lots of mosques) and head to Ireland on the basis that someone is building another mosque here? Clongriffen isn't that special.

better standard of living , more money . the majority of muslims who come to Ireland at present are from relatively poverished areas of Asia & Africa , some use the relative rule , some use the arranged marriage route , some use education and others use the asylum route.

Which Asian country are you talking about? To get a knowledge you must go to school or college or university not from a tabloid. Nobody in the world graduated from it. Indeed

BlatentCheek

I live near enough to Clongriffin that I wouldn't want this built. Not out of any enmity towards muslims but think what a development of this size would do to traffic in the area. 5,000 capacity mega-mosque with a school attached? **** that, I already hate parents dropping their kids to school for what it does to my morning commute. A muslim school can only be worse in that regard because it will likely have proportionally less of the kids living within walking distance, the choice of school being primarily determined in this case by religious ethos rather than proximity as it often is for other "normal" schools. That may be Nimbyism but I dare say a more appropriate location could be found based on factors other than the developer, Gerry Gannon (in NAMA, member of anglo golden circle), needing an alternate use for a failed mass housing development, Clongriffen.

Nodin

Personally, I'd prefer more complaints based on Nimbyism and the ruining of morning commutes to sectarian hysteria. It reminds me we're in the 21st century.

hatrickpatrick

Eh... What exactly is the difference between a "super Mosque" and a... "regular" mosque?

Can the Super Mosque fly and recover from a broken back by doing a few sets of pushups or something?

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

Total nonsense. Thankfully we've moved on from some fear driven 16th century view of the world, for the most part.

Could someone please tell the Saudis, Wahabbists and Salafists?

BlatentCheek

Nodin wrote: »

Personally, I'd prefer more complaints based on Nimbyism and the ruining of morning commutes to sectarian hysteria. It reminds me we're in the 21st century.

TBH while my concerns are genuine I was only bothered writing the post because I thought it looked funny beside the fairly mental tone that's dominated the thread. I was trying to go for this effect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP3x-cp4VHo

Nodin

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Eh... What exactly is the difference between a "super Mosque" and a... "regular" mosque?

............

The journalist writing the story, I'd imagine.

PseudoFamous

I don't mind the Mosque, Conference rooms, playground or swimming pool, but the 34 classroom school is pushing it. I have no issue with different cultures when they make an attempt to integrate with existing culture, but making a school exclusively for Muslims is going to prevent mixing, and widen the divide between "normal" Irish society and the "muslim" Irish society. Probably will generate a bit of racism and ignorance on both sides, too.

Nodin

PseudoFamous wrote: »

I don't mind the Mosque, Conference rooms, playground or swimming pool, but the 34 classroom school is pushing it. I have no issue with different cultures when they make an attempt to integrate with existing culture, but making a school exclusively for Muslims is going to prevent mixing, and widen the divide between "normal" Irish society and the "muslim" Irish society. Probably will generate a bit of racism and ignorance on both sides, too.

Unfortunately thats the current set up in the state - religions can form their own faith schools. I doubt very much we're going to see a secular school system and a ban on faith schools in the near future (50-100 years).

Stheno

I'd also imagine that the 34 rooms will include science and computer labs.

And given the religion it's possible that at second level the genders will be seperated

So one room for each of the primary years = 8 rooms, two for each of second level = 10/12, labs, gym, home ec, carpentry would easily account for another 14

hatrickpatrick

PseudoFamous wrote: »

I don't mind the Mosque, Conference rooms, playground or swimming pool, but the 34 classroom school is pushing it. I have no issue with different cultures when they make an attempt to integrate with existing culture, but making a school exclusively for Muslims is going to prevent mixing, and widen the divide between "normal" Irish society and the "muslim" Irish society. Probably will generate a bit of racism and ignorance on both sides, too.

Right, because it's not like Ireland has (or at least certainly had) a majority of schools being run by religious orders, right? (And on a side note, it's not like many of those aren't implicated in horrific crimes against humanity, is it?)

Don't really see how you can object to a Muslim school without also objecting to the vast array of Christian schools in the country...

PseudoFamous

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Right, because it's not like Ireland has (or at least certainly had) a majority of schools being run by religious orders, right? (And on a side note, it's not like many of those aren't implicated in horrific crimes against humanity, is it?)

Don't really see how you can object to a Muslim school without also objecting to the vast array of Christian schools in the country...

Funnily enough, I don't recall saying that Christian run schools are right either.

The Catholic church provided education to the masses when the state could not afford to, Protestant faiths supplementing it for their own, but now, the state does not have a need for any religions in education, and I feel education should be completely secular now.

Palmach

SeanW wrote: »

Could someone please tell the Saudis, Wahabbists and Salafists?

Precisely. And here is the question? Who will run this Mosque? Will it be a moderate like Sheikh Satardien who was ostracised because he pointed out that there was extremism in Islam in Ireland? Or will be the greasy Ali Selim and his Muslim Brotherhood cohorts who will be free to spread hatred and vitriol at will?

MrD012

Clongriffin is quite a diverse area , there are no more muslims in the population than anybody else , which begs the question why build a mosque and Islamic centre there , and the answer is that Gerry Gannon (golden circle investor) wants to build more houses , he wants the Boom years back , he needs to create a demand for these houses and he sees the mosque as all his answers , he knows there are many muslims throughout Dublin and Ireland who will be happy to set up in clongriffin once the facilities are in place . He is only thinking about his own pockets once again , he is not considering the existing residents who purchased their homes without any knowledge of this proposed project.

old hippy

MrD012 wrote: »

Clongriffin is quite a diverse area , there are no more muslims in the population than anybody else , which begs the question why build a mosque and Islamic centre there , and the answer is that Gerry Gannon (golden circle investor) wants to build more houses , he wants the Boom years back , he needs to create a demand for these houses and he sees the mosque as all his answers , he knows there are many muslims throughout Dublin and Ireland who will be happy to set up in clongriffin once the facilities are in place . He is only thinking about his own pockets once again , he is not considering the existing residents who purchased their homes without any knowledge of this proposed project.

You forgot to add "allegedly" and links to your claims.

Nodin

MrD012 wrote: »

Clongriffin is quite a diverse area , there are no more muslims in the population than anybody else , which begs the question why build a mosque and Islamic centre there , and the answer is that Gerry Gannon (golden circle investor) wants to build more houses , he wants the Boom years back , he needs to create a demand for these houses and he sees the mosque as all his answers , he knows there are many muslims throughout Dublin and Ireland who will be happy to set up in clongriffin once the facilities are in place . He is only thinking about his own pockets once again , he is not considering the existing residents who purchased their homes without any knowledge of this proposed project.

Disjointed nonsense, without a fact to back it up.

Why would anyone move if they live withing driving distance?

What odds does it make the current residents if they did - are you saying its ok to harbour sectarian grudges against your neighbours?

celtictiger32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -3X5hIFXYU

and they still want to build that mosque?.......

sorry guys i fvcked up that link, its supposed to be a clip called muslim demographics (its the one with the red flag)