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Road work Blanch South/North roundabout over N3

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    #32
    triple-M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭triple-M


    jack presley wrote: »
    Bus lane for buses heading from the centre to the N3 heading towards Navan.
    cool,any links?


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    #33
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    triple-M wrote: »
    cool,any links?

    It's written on the map on fingal co co's website. It's a slightly different map to the one you posted, a few bits of extra text etc.

    Go to - roads - schemes on display - click link


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    #34
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    Is there any such bus route currently operating? The 270, maybe?


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    #35
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,080 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    A good half of Dublin's bus lane network has no services on it, doesn't stop them building more all the same


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    #36
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    Is there any such bus route currently operating? The 270, maybe?

    I'd imagine it'll be for buses heading to Clonee and Dunboyne etc. that stop off in the centre and this will be quicker for getting back onto the N3 compared to whatever way they do it at the moment (probably out the Quinn building or McDonalds exits?)


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    #37
    triple-M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭triple-M


    I-ve heard before that the bus lanes around the S.C were not legally enforceable as they were on privately owned land and also because theres no signs up saying the hours of operation e.g mon-sat 07:00-19:00 ,dont know how true that is although I guess it makes sense,if thats the case would it be the same situation for the new n3 buslane link to the N3?


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    #38
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    triple-M wrote: »
    I-ve heard before that the bus lanes around the S.C were not legally enforceable as they were on privately owned land and also because theres no signs up saying the hours of operation e.g mon-sat 07:00-19:00 ,dont know how true that is although I guess it makes sense,if thats the case would it be the same situation for the new n3 buslane link to the N3?
    It's still a public area. It's not gated.

    That slip I believe was getting some gardening works done. A litany of motors have gone crashing through it of late and the shrubs were taken out.


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    #39
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Since few days ago,there is an issue with the upgrade,i reckon they are going over speed,sorry over the budget as most of the time,going in town or out of town ,there is a collector with clear frame on back window that ask for a donation of 80 if you are over 60 kilograms...anytime,day or night !
    Watch your wheel(s) weight !!!


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    #40
    dickwod1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    rolion wrote: »
    Since few days ago,there is an issue with the upgrade,i reckon they are going over speed,sorry over the budget as most of the time,going in town or out of town ,there is a collector with clear frame on back window that ask for a donation of 80 if you are over 60 kilograms...anytime,day or night !
    Watch your wheel(s) weight !!!

    I have no idea what you are talking about


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    #41
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    dickwod1 wrote: »
    I have no idea what you are talking about

    If you get the ideea,then you don't get the points to talk about ! ;)


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    #42
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    dickwod1 wrote: »
    I have no idea what you are talking about

    I'd imagine he means a speed camera van has been set in the general vicinity.


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    #43
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    MugMugs wrote: »
    I'd imagine he means a speed camera van has been set in the general vicinity.

    I got what he was talking about alright. I too was confused though as to why he just didn't come out and say it. There's a full thread in Motors about speed cameras and speed traps so its not like talking about locations is forbidden on Boards.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    triple-M wrote: »
    I-ve heard before that the bus lanes around the S.C were not legally enforceable as they were on privately owned land and also because theres no signs up saying the hours of operation e.g mon-sat 07:00-19:00 ,dont know how true that is although I guess it makes sense,if thats the case would it be the same situation for the new n3 buslane link to the N3?
    I thought this too, but it is not true. All that is required for a bus lane is the markers on the road, and a blue bus lane sign. If no times are posted, it's a 24hr Mon - Sun bus lane ;)
    MugMugs wrote: »
    It's still a public area. It's not gated.

    That slip I believe was getting some gardening works done. A litany of motors have gone crashing through it of late and the shrubs were taken out.
    If it is a public place, do the people directing traffic (centre workers) have any authority to direct traffic if it is not a private road?

    And if it is a private road, bus lanes are not enforceable.


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    #45
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If it is a public place, do the people directing traffic (centre workers) have any authority to direct traffic if it is not a private road?

    And if it is a private road, bus lanes are not enforceable.

    From S.I. No. 249/2010, (hotel and supermarket car park parks are public places.)

    “public place” means—

    (a) any public road, and

    (b) any street or road or any other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

    In relation to those centre workers who "attempt" to direct traffic, I don't believe that they do have the right to do so. But I'm not fully versed on the law covering them so cannot say for sure.

    In relation to that slip though, it's most certainly a public place. :)


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    #46
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,080 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    MugMugs wrote: »
    From S.I. No. 249/2010, (hotel and supermarket car park parks are public places.)

    “public place” means—

    (a) any public road, and

    (b) any street or road or any other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

    In relation to those centre workers who "attempt" to direct traffic, I don't believe that they do have the right to do so. But I'm not fully versed on the law covering them so cannot say for sure.

    In relation to that slip though, it's most certainly a public place. :)

    That S.I. 249/10 only covers Taxi licencing, it has nothing to do with the definition of a public road in the Roads Act 1993 or the Road Traffic Act 1994 as amended.

    Bus Lanes themselves are covered by the 1997/8 Traffic and Parking regs.

    The question is whether the road network around the Blanchardstown Centre campus has been taken in charge by Fingal County Council or not. If it hasnt, then the Bus Lanes are unenforceable. From the look of the road markings and crossings around the centre my guess would be a lot of them do not meet traffic sign requirements so are probably not in charge, in which case the bus lanes are unenforceable and the car park attendants can direct traffic as they wish

    You would want a declaration from Fingal Co though to be sure!

    By the way, the Gardaí had one of their own old-fashioned plain white Speed Camera vans tucked in behind the cones last night on the N3 northbound in the area of the bridge works, saw a few suckers getting flashed ahead of me around 11pm. Two lanes open, no work ongoing, well lit, 60 kph limit a nonsense, cynical and spiteful and totally against their own BS policy of only monitoring in areas with poor safety record......


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    #47
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    That S.I. 249/10 only covers Taxi licencing, it has nothing to do with the definition of a public road in the Roads Act 1993 or the Road Traffic Act 1994 as amended.

    Apologies, I was pulling from a quick Google on a restricted access PC.

    The point remains the same to the query I was answering. The slip is indeed a public place.


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    #48
    dickwod1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    MugMugs wrote: »
    I'd imagine he means a speed camera van has been set in the general vicinity.
    Yeah I was thinking that too but wondering why post in the roadwork section(and then was he on about the roadworks!),
    but at least he was trying to be helpful :)


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    #49
    dickwod1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    MugMugs wrote: »
    In relation to those centre workers who "attempt" to direct traffic, I don't believe that they do have the right to do so. But I'm not fully versed on the law covering them so cannot say for sure.

    AFAIK according to the rules of the road there is three people ... 1) A Garda - 2) A lollipop lady/man - 3) A person in charge of animals


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    #50
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    dickwod1 wrote: »
    AFAIK according to the rules of the road there is three people ... 1) A Garda - 2) A lollipop lady/man - 3) A person in charge of animals

    Do builders not have to apply for permits to deal with traffic control too?


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    #51
    dickwod1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    MugMugs wrote: »
    Do builders not have to apply for permits to deal with traffic control too?

    Maybe that would be for temp traffic lights/signals?


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    #52
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    dickwod1 wrote: »
    Maybe that would be for temp traffic lights/signals?

    Presumably the category would be management.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MugMugs wrote: »
    Apologies, I was pulling from a quick Google on a restricted access PC.

    The point remains the same to the query I was answering. The slip is indeed a public place.
    Sorry, should have been more clear in my first post. I was talking about the road where the bus stops are and the road leading into the centre.

    I'll email FCC roads tomorrow and ask them who owns the roads, and post what they say. If the council maintain the roads, I'll ask do they give permission to centre staff to direct traffic on them.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dickwod1 wrote: »
    AFAIK according to the rules of the road there is three people ... 1) A Garda - 2) A lollipop lady/man - 3) A person in charge of animals
    Don't forget customs/revenue ;)


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MugMugs wrote: »
    Apologies, I was pulling from a quick Google on a restricted access PC.

    The point remains the same to the query I was answering. The slip is indeed a public place.
    I contcated FCC on twitter and was sent this pic. It would seem the slip road is indeed a private road and is not maintained by FCC.
    https://twitter.com/Fingalcoco/status/326650665071964161/photo/1 wrote:
    Apologies for delay in replying, image shows roads in yellow/orange are in charge of FCC.

    BIh_DJnCcAAebES.jpg


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    #56
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I contcated FCC on twitter and was sent this pic. It would seem the slip road is indeed a private road and is not maintained by FCC.



    BIh_DJnCcAAebES.jpg

    You seem to be missing my point.

    Irrespective of who owns or indeed maintains the road, it's a public road and as such it is subject to all laws of the land and most importantly, the Road Traffic Act. The road as it stands or indeed, "The slip" is a public place.


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MugMugs wrote: »
    You seem to be missing my point.

    Irrespective of who owns or indeed maintains the road, it's a public road and as such it is subject to all laws of the land and most importantly, the Road Traffic Act. The road as it stands or indeed, "The slip" is a public place.
    Yes it is a public place, but it is a private road.

    It is a private road, which the public have access too making it a public place. Some sections of the RTA parts specifically state "public road" and therefore cannot be enforced on private roads, but the majority of the sections state "public place" which could be enforced on the centre roads.

    A public road is a road under the authority of a road authority, ie a council (RTA 1961).

    There has been so many amendments to legislation that I don't know what going on completely.


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    #58
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,080 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    MugMugs wrote: »
    You seem to be missing my point.

    Irrespective of who owns or indeed maintains the road, it's a public road and as such it is subject to all laws of the land and most importantly, the Road Traffic Act. The road as it stands or indeed, "The slip" is a public place.

    Wrong, its a public place for the purposes of liability, not a public road. The Road Traffic Acts do not apply

    I had my suspicions with the amount of non-standard road markings and treatments, but the upshot is, on any of those 'grey' roads, the speed limit and bus lanes are indicative only, the management of the Centre would have to bring in their own private enforcement of them......


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    #59
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Wrong, its a public place for the purposes of liability, not a public road. The Road Traffic Acts do not apply

    Not wanting to be seen as the pedant, you're saying that I can do 100MPH, Doughnuts, run over a pedestrian all while being absolutely bladdered drunk on that stretch of road and not have to face the wrath of the law?

    :rolleyes:


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    #60
    triple-M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭triple-M


    this might be of interest to some of you the original poster claims to have been fined for driving in the bus lanes around blanch http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056344273


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    #61
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Not completely related, but they have Mulhuddart bridge closed this morning for works and the traffic is atrocious! Totally backed up in both directions on the Old Navan Road.


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