NEW 2m/70cm HF for under 52 Euro?

martinedwards

BAOFENG Dual band model UV-5R II VHF/UHF

with the bigger battery pack, charger, USB cable and software.

DELIVERED.

gotta be allright for that surely?

The RF Tech Guy

martinedwards wrote:

gotta be allright for that surely?

Not really,

It's not type approved for Amateur radio use in Republic of Ireland.

martinedwards

really?

just as well I'm north of the border.......

there's quite a buzz about them on the net......

all the usual "its not Yaesu, Trio or Icom so it must be rubbish" snobbery, but a LOT of love out there.

I've just ordered one.

Our man in Havana

Ofcom have similar rules. I wouldn't be so cocky.

martinedwards

Enlighten me. whats the problem with them?

Our man in Havana

martinedwards wrote: »

Enlighten me. whats the problem with them?

They allow transmission on frequencies that are not covered by an amateur radio licence either in the UK or Ireland.

PauloMN

I think it would be good to clarify this for once and for all. As far as I am aware, there is nothing wrong with a licensed amateur buying such a radio and using it on amateur frequencies. Is there even such a thing as type approval for amateur radio equipment, considering home brew transmitters are perfectly legal once used by a licensed op within the conditions of the licence?

Obviously the only concern I would have as a moderator is for Boards.ie, so once this equipment can be bought/sold legally, I have no problems whatsoever with people posting threads about it. Assuming all is ok from a legal standpoint, I'll be picking one up myself based on the reviews I've read online.

I'm open to correction on any of the above, so if anyone has official Comreg links/information that is relevant to Ireland, feel free to post them.

martinedwards

thanks for the clarification.

according to another forum in the UK I asked on, they say pretty much what you did.

so long as it's only used on legal frequencies, all is well.

zenno

Well there's no point in myself giving advice on this radio if it's not legally certified for use here in Ireland.

PauloMN

zenno wrote: »

I purchased one of these direct from hong kong a while back for using on pmr 446mhz which needs no licence whatsoever but with these radios they have (1 watt- low power) and (5 watt-high power) and this is the problem some people say, but i transmit with 1 watt as it is only a half a watt above the licensed 0.5 watt you can use but i can't really say there would be a problem at using the full 5 watt high power setting to be honest.

Well for 446MHz, there is type approval as far as I am aware, so using those radios on 446MHz is definitely not legal. Your choice as to what you do of course, and I'm not going to argue with you about it, but you definitely need to be clear to others reading this that you are not operating legally when you post stuff like this:

If you stick within the law and just use the 446mhz frequencies to transmit and receive you will be fine as there is no licence needed.

There's no licence needed to operate a PMR446 radio. What you have is not a PMR446 radio.

zenno

PauloMN wrote: »

Well for 446MHz, there is type approval as far as I am aware, so using those radios on 446MHz is definitely not legal. Your choice as to what you do of course, and I'm not going to argue with you about it, but you definitely need to be clear to others reading this that you are not operating legally when you post stuff like this:



There's no licence needed to operate a PMR446 radio. What you have is not a PMR446 radio.

Well you clarified it for me. EDIT: Above. I don't want to give the wrong impression about this radio so.

watty

Summary:
Any modification of certified equipment voids the certification.

• No licence needed, but MUST be type approved equipment for that band:
  CB 27MHz, 49MHz, "iTrip" type FM band II TX, PMR446, SRD 864 / 868, video Senders/WiFi/baby Alarn etc on 2.4GHz/5.8GHz, two way satellite link for Internet
  Not just CE /ETSI but relevant to Ireland. All of EU isn't the same.
  
  
• Licence needed AND MUST be type approved equipment for that band
  RSL/Broadcast FM Band II transmitter, DAB TX, DTT TX, Satellite TX other than Internet or more than certain power, Microwave links etc
  
  
• Licence needed AND needs no approval
  Amateur Radio usage (Minimum full Class B, UK folk with Intermediate or less must use approved gear).
  But you must be able to prove no out of band emissions (a scanner and attenuator is enough) and only transmit in band and at designated power levels. It can't legally be used as CB or PMR446 as it's not approved for those.

Modifying a CB so it works for Amateur 10m immediately voids its CB approval, so it can't any longer be used to TX as CB only RX but is perfectly legal with a Licence on 10m.

Same applies to PMR446 vs Amateur 70cm use

Or Video Sender/WiFi modified for 2.3GHz. A small part of Amateur band overlaps 2.4GHz Licence free, only certified unmodified equipment can be used for both.

Is there even such a thing as type approval for amateur radio equipment?

Yes, ETSI and CE in EU. Any retailed / production manufactured equipment must have approvals. Some countries and classes of licences don't allow "home brew" transmitters or Power Amplifiers. Only full Class B or A licences are allowed to use arbitrary equipment (home brew, commercial, military) but MUST be able to prove they are meeting their licence obligations in spurious emissions and harmonics and power etc.
Rules are stricter but different in USA.

Information based on direct discussions with Comreg and studying relevant documentation

martinedwards

Thanks Watty.

Very clear.

I am waiting for my full top end licence to land on the mat so I'll be in the clear (in the UK) when I'm using it on the correct freqs

PauloMN

martinedwards wrote: »

Thanks Watty.

Very clear.

I am waiting for my full top end licence to land on the mat so I'll be in the clear (in the UK) when I'm using it on the correct freqs

Let us know how you get on. It's a seriously good price for a handy little radio like that. Online reviews look good, might get one myself.

watty

it would be interesting to compare it with an FT817ND

The RF Tech Guy

martinedwards wrote: »

thanks for the clarification.

according to another forum in the UK I asked on, they say pretty much what you did.

so long as it's only used on legal frequencies, all is well.

So why post here so then.

Make sure the equipment is CE certified etc... To legally cover yourself when importing such equipment.

In the republic this equipment is not legal for amateur use.

The RF Tech Guy

PauloMN wrote: »

I think it would be good to clarify this for once and for all. As far as I am aware, there is nothing wrong with a licensed amateur buying such a radio and using it on amateur frequencies. Is there even such a thing as type approval for amateur radio equipment, considering home brew transmitters are perfectly legal once used by a licensed op within the conditions of the licence?

Obviously the only concern I would have as a moderator is for Boards.ie, so once this equipment can be bought/sold legally, I have no problems whatsoever with people posting threads about it. Assuming all is ok from a legal standpoint, I'll be picking one up myself based on the reviews I've read online.

I'm open to correction on any of the above, so if anyone has official Comreg links/information that is relevant to Ireland, feel free to post them.

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/licensing.541.html

There is a legal issue with an amateur possessing this equipment. A quick telephone call by boards.ie to Comreg will clarify the matter.

watty

You are wrong. You'd be better to talk to an expert in the IRTS.

I have discussed this. You can easily get people on the Phone in Comreg that know nothing about the Amateur Radio regulations. Anything not in writing is meaningless. Check your licence documents.

Absolutely EVERY Radio, for licence free or licensed use, excluding Amateur Radio must be certified. It has to be certified to be retailed in Ireland, even for Amateur Radio.

But an Amateur Licensee can use ANY equipment as long as they have the means to verify they are meeting their licence conditions.

quick telephone call by boards.ie to Comreg

That is impossible.

The RF Tech Guy

I too have had many a discussion with Comreg.

Perhaps I am wrong, it not impossible that I am. I'll go to the trouble of checking some terms and conditions attached to a current license.

Anyone in Comreg giving advice about regulations has to be competent to give that advice or should pass the query onto someone who is competent.

The IRTS have nothing to do with regulation in Ireland. They can only represent the views of their members.

The RF Tech Guy

watty wrote: »

Absolutely EVERY Radio, for licence free or licensed use, excluding Amateur Radio must be certified. It has to be certified to be retailed in Ireland, even for Amateur Radio.

.

Are you suggesting that commercially produced amateur radio equipment does not need CE certification to be imported or sold in Ireland?

I don't actually know too many amateurs in Ireland who have the necessary equipment or skills to check that a transceiver complies with all the listed emissions specifications.

A scanner and attenuators are not really going to give you a correct reading on a harmonic or spurious level.

watty

If someone is selling, i.e. retailing in Ireland it must be certified,

If an Amateur is building or importing or buying new or 2nd hand the onus is on them to ensure they are compliant with licence. EVEN if it's approved gear. Licensed Amateurs are supposed to understand how to do this (that is why there is an exam!). Licensed Amateurs are supposed to have equipment to verify they are operating correctly.

A scanner and attenuators are not really going to give you a correct reading on a harmonic or spurious level.

Yes it will if you have a reference to check with and really understood the questions in the paper.

Other equipment is needed as well. But a minimum is a wide range scanner with signal level and accurate frequency display.

Read up on how a "wavemeter" is used.

watty

The RF Tech Guy wrote: »

I too have had many a discussion with Comreg.

Perhaps I am wrong, it not impossible that I am. I'll go to the trouble of checking some terms and conditions attached to a current license.

Anyone in Comreg giving advice about regulations has to be competent to give that advice or should pass the query onto someone who is competent.

The IRTS have nothing to do with regulation in Ireland. They can only represent the views of their members.

Comreg maybe have 1 or 2 people that understand Amateur radio regulations. IRTS don't make any regulations, but they are better at explaining anything than Comreg. While I am no fan of IRTS, they do have some competence in the area.

watty

it's true that if you don't feel you have the equipment or expertise to verify a piece of equipment then you should not operate it. Even if it's a CE/ETSI piece of gear.

zenno

Don't bite my head off please it's just a question...

On the box of this baofeng UV-5R radio it says FCC CE Certified.

Now using this radio only for PMR446 It has the all important 6.25 steps for 446 and the usual UK spec 12.5 pmr steps, so it's not like you are transmitting on a wide 25.0k step and if used on 1 watt as the standard for pmr446 is 0.5 watt is it really that bad or illegal to use if staying within this setting ? I don't want to be using these radios if they are going to cause me trouble as the others i communicate with are using the same radio.

I really need to find out about the exact regulations here in Ireland relating to this radios use for pmr446.

I'm also confused as to why some licensed ham operators here in dublin use this UV-5R radio if it is not complying with our regulations ?

watty

It's not CE certified as a PME446. It can't be. To get PMR446 certification it must have a non-interchangeable permanent aerial, a fixed maximum power within the PMR446 limit and fixed PMR446 channel steps.

The full definition for the PMR446 equipment is contained within ETSI 300 296 to which the equipment must be compliant.

It must ONLY be able to transmit on
446.00625 MHz
446.03125 MHz
446.05625 MHz
446.08125 MHz
446.01875 MHz
446.04375 MHz
446.06875 MHz
446.09375 MHz

The following accessories can be used with PMR 446 radios:

external microphones including VOX type microphones;
earphones, headphones and external loudspeakers; and
DC power sockets, charge sockets and battery packs.

The accessories must be connected by appropriate sockets installed by the manufacturer at the time of manufacture and conformance evaluation and their use must not affect the RF characteristics of the radios.

PMR 446 radio equipment must be handportable, have an integral antenna, have a maximum ERP of 500 mW and be compliant with ETS 300 296.

INTERFERENCE TO LICENSEES IN 446.0 446.1 MHZ BAND
The PMR 446 frequencies are interleaved between existing simplex on-site PBR frequencies. It is expected that little interference will be caused to users on these frequencies. Licensees who believe they may be suffering interference from PMR 446 equipment should contact their Agency Local Licensing Centre.

PMR 446 radio equipment must use the above frequencies only. Radio equipment which can operate on any other frequency, including Short Range Business Radio (SRBR) equipment capable of using frequencies in the 461 MHz band, must not be used for the PMR 446 service.

It's impossible for that set to meet requirements for a CE mark for PMR446 service.

I'm also confused as to why some licensed ham operators here in dublin use this UV-5R radio if it is not complying with our regulations ?

They can only use it on Amateur bands and only if they can verify that they are meeting their licence conditions.

Licensed Amateur usage is nothing to do with PMR446 or CB or any other "licence free" or non-Amateur Licensed operation.

zenno

Thanks very much watty that explains a lot to me. Cheers for the good information regarding this radio-set. Well that clears that up.

Radio Repairs

Most of the community in Ireland and the uk have a programable Radios like this. Its the guys with vested interest in sales of the big brands and the snobbery that thankfully is dying out, that is behind some of the posts. If the rules are to be inforced like the nonsese i have read in this post i am afraid we can leave the word radio amatuer behind us. Ofcom or comreg would have no interest in this issue unless someone makes a big deal about it. Enjoy your Baofeng, a truley remarkable piece equipment for 40eu. 73s

zenno

Radio Repairs wrote: »

Most of the community in Ireland and the uk have a programable Radios like this. Its the guys with vested interest in sales of the big brands and the snobbery that thankfully is dying out, that is behind some of the posts. If the rules are to be inforced like the nonsese i have read in this post i am afraid we can leave the word radio amatuer behind us. Ofcom or comreg would have no interest in this issue unless someone makes a big deal about it. Enjoy your Baofeng, a truley remarkable piece equipment for 40eu. 73s

I have to say, it is an amazing radio for the price and it works flawlessly. The new updated vip software works without a hitch and is really handy to program the radio fast. I would say though, be careful with using chirp software because i have heard of some people bricking their radio using chirp. Other than that it's one amazing radio.

When using the correct UV-5R software and you checkmark the comport in the software, wait for 6 seconds and then read from radio because if you click comport 3 say, and then immediately try to read from radio it could fail so if anyone is using the made for UV-5R correct software just be aware of this as it's not a glitch it just needs a few seconds to arrange the comport for usage.

The RF Tech Guy

Wasn't aware there were any equipment dealers contributing to the discussion. Perhaps some were?

Also the radio is capable of being set to any frequency by the user so is not truly programable like some commercial equipment that can be restricted to the amateur bands.

Comreg or Ofcom would have plenty of interest if the radio in question was transmitting on say Ch16(156.800MHz), or any other "safety" related frequency causing interference, e.g. Accidently transmitting while stuck in a pocket or bag for example. With equipment restricted to the authorised amateur bands this is not going to be an issue.

Nothing at all wrong with the "value" brands, providing they meet the legislative technical requirements. In fact it is this "value" range of equipment that is most likely to generate a sales revival, just a pity that dealers in Ireland can't seem to offer decent value to the amateur radio community.

Can you provide statistics to back up your assertion that most of the community in the UK and Ireland have programable radios like this? Perhaps it is just an opinion? I can think of a number of amateurs both in the UK and Ireland who have not purchased radios like this and I can think of a small few who have.

zenno

The RF Tech Guy wrote: »

Wasn't aware there were any equipment dealers contributing to the discussion. Perhaps some were?

Also the radio is capable of being set to any frequency by the user so is not truly programable like some commercial equipment that can be restricted to the amateur bands.

Comreg or Ofcom would have plenty of interest if the radio in question was transmitting on say Ch16(156.800MHz), or any other "safety" related frequency causing interference, e.g. Accidently transmitting while stuck in a pocket or bag for example. With equipment restricted to the authorised amateur bands this is not going to be an issue.

Nothing at all wrong with the "value" brands, providing they meet the legislative technical requirements. In fact it is this "value" range of equipment that is most likely to generate a sales revival, just a pity that dealers in Ireland can't seem to offer decent value to the amateur radio community.

Can you provide statistics to back up your assertion that most of the community in the UK and Ireland have programable radios like this? Perhaps it is just an opinion? I can think of a number of amateurs both in the UK and Ireland who have not purchased radios like this and I can think of a small few who have.

Comreg or Ofcom would have plenty of interest if the radio in question was transmitting on say Ch16(156.800MHz), or any other "safety" related frequency causing interference, e.g. Accidently transmitting while stuck in a pocket or bag for example.

I can see the problem there for sure but why would anyone want to transmit on a frequency like this as it's pointless and also the channel coastguard and all others as far as i'm aware of use ctcss or dcs codes so if some dope did try to transmit or even accidentally hit the ptt button the coast gaurds squelch would not open and would not hear anything.

Sure a person would have to try and find the correct ctcss or dcs codes that they used to be able to actually open the other sides squelch and i can't see why anyone would be bothered. Using it as a scanner to listen in is perfectly ok but why would a person want to mess around transmitting on those frequencies, i don't see the point at all.

The RF Tech Guy

zenno wrote: »

I can see the problem there for sure but why would anyone want to transmit on a frequency like this as it's pointless and also the channel coastguard and all others as far as i'm aware of use ctcss or dcs codes so if some dope did try to transmit or even accidentally hit the ptt button the coast gaurds squelch would not open and would not hear anything.

Sure a person would have to try and find the correct ctcss or dcs codes that they used to be able to actually open the other sides squelch and i can't see why anyone would be bothered. Using it as a scanner to listen in is perfectly ok but why would a person want to mess around transmitting on those frequencies, i don't see the point at all.

Marine VHF communications do not use CTCSS or DCS etc...

The type of situation I'm referring to is where one of these Wideband transmit radios accidently tune out of the authorised amateur frequency allocation and accidently transmit as can possibly happen if in a coat pocket, stuck in a bag etc... The owner of the radio would very probably not even be aware that the set had been transmitting.

Even in a situation where a frequency does use CTCSS or DCS, a strong local signal can "block" a wanted signal. CTCSS or DCS simply means that the squelch on the receiver won't open until the correct code is received. It is not a method of preventing interference.