License requirements for towing a caravan

db

There have been a few threads here in the past regarding the driving license requirements for towing a caravan. I came across this link in a Motors thread that spells out the RSA position on what you can tow with a Category E or EB license. Trailer Requirements. Caravans are covered under the O2 trailer category.

If you have an ordinary Category B licence, you may:

Tow an O2 trailer, provided that the DGVW of the trailer does not exceed the un-laden weight of the towing vehicle, and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed a total of 3.5 tonnes..

niloc1951

db wrote: »

There have been a few threads here in the past regarding the driving license requirements for towing a caravan. I came across this link in a Motors thread that spells out the RSA position on what you can tow with a Category E or EB license. Trailer Requirements. Caravans are covered under the O2 trailer category.

A very good post and the RSA link carries the most recent EU licence regulations

Those with motorhomes of GVW 3,500kg and only a B licence should note that these latest EU regs allow an O1 trailer (not exceeding 750kg GVW) to be towed.
This sensible regulation is designed to permit carrying, in a small trailer, the amount of equipment often associated with family or fulltimer use which at times cannot all be legally accommodated within the limits applicable to 3,500 GVW vehicles.

What's needed next is the removal of the 80 k/ph general speed limit attached to towing ALL trailers from this O1 category as part of the current review of speed limits.

Irishgoatman

I've towed quite a few things in my time and I've got to say that I see no reason for taking away the 80 k/ph limit.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I've towed quite a few things in my time and I've got to say that I see no reason for taking away the 80 k/ph limit.

The 80 k/ph limit is fine for big trailers (O2, O3 & O4), for example caravans, cattle trucks, artics, or other goods trailers.
But it is a bit over the top when applied to a family car or motor caravan towing a little baggage trailer (M1 vehicle towing an O1 trailer).

paddyp

niloc1951 wrote: »

Those with motorhomes of GVW 3,500kg and only a B licence should note that these latest EU regs allow an O1 trailer (not exceeding 750kg GVW) to be towed.

Cool Just wondering whats the story if your trailer has no gvw plate.

niloc1951

paddyp wrote: »

Cool Just wondering whats the story if your trailer has no gvw plate.

If there is no manufacturers gross weight figure on the trailer you could give The NSAI a call, they are the agency who do the 'plating' for commercial vehicles and they might be able to certify the GVW of the trailer.

Del2005

niloc1951 wrote: »

The 80 k/ph limit is fine for big trailers (O2, O3 & O4), for example caravans, cattle trucks, artics, or other goods trailers.
But it is a bit over the top when applied to a family car or motor caravan towing a little baggage trailer (M1 vehicle towing an O1 trailer).

Small trailers would be worst at high speed than bigger trailers. I've seen loads of people pulling little trailers at speed and the they do be bouncing like mad, very easy to flip or detach, while a heavier trailer is more stable it's harder to stop.

Though the best I saw was a tipper truck pulling a compressor or generator and it was bouncing a few feet in the air from one wheel to the other, a smaller vehicle would have rolled the lot.

Irishgoatman

Del2005 wrote: »

Small trailers would be worst at high speed than bigger trailers. I've seen loads of people pulling little trailers at speed and the they do be bouncing like mad, very easy to flip or detach, while a heavier trailer is more stable it's harder to stop.

Though the best I saw was a tipper truck pulling a compressor or generator and it was bouncing a few feet in the air from one wheel to the other, a smaller vehicle would have rolled the lot.

Exactly, an excellent example as to why speed limit should stay as it is.
Thank you.

btb

But HGV's can do 90kph on the motorways,
Larger trailers/ caravans are more stable but these small trailers tend to be very unstable at 80kph. Can have a lot to do with the way that they are loaded and the road surface.

niloc1951

btb wrote: »

But HGV's can do 90kph on the motorways,
Larger trailers/ caravans are more stable but these small trailers tend to be very unstable at 80kph. Can have a lot to do with the way that they are loaded and the road surface.

In this country the legal speed limit for non passenger vehicles over 3,500kg is 80 k/ph, for any vehicle towing a trailer it's the same, even on motorways.

As regards trailer stability.
A trailer can become unstable even at 50 k/ph if its tyres are incorrectly inflated, its load is incorrectly distributed or the nose weight on the towing vehicles hitch is wrong.
A trailer which complies with the correct values for the three above criteria will tow safely at quite high speeds.
A speed of 223.9 k/ph was recorded for a caravan towed by a Mercedes S600 in October 2003

In Europe the speed limit for car/trailer combinations which do not exceed 3.5t is set differently (higher) than that for those which exceed the figure. In france the authorities seem happy to have it set to be the same as a solo car, 130 k/ph on motorways and in Germany if the trailer (caravan) has passed a roadworthiness test 100 k/ph is permitted.

See HERE for the full details.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

In this country the legal speed limit for non passenger vehicles over 3,500kg is 80 k/ph, for any vehicle towing a trailer it's the same, even on motorways.

As regards trailer stability.
A trailer can become unstable even at 50 k/ph if its tyres are incorrectly inflated, its load is incorrectly distributed or the nose weight on the towing vehicles hitch is wrong.
A trailer which complies with the correct values for the three above criteria will tow safely at quite high speeds.
A speed of 223.9 k/ph was recorded for a caravan towed by a Mercedes S600 in October 2003

In Europe the speed limit for car/trailer combinations which do not exceed 3.5t is set differently (higher) than that for those which exceed the figure. In france the authorities seem happy to have it set to be the same as a solo car, 130 k/ph on motorways and in Germany if the trailer (caravan) has passed a roadworthiness test 100 k/ph is permitted.

See HERE for the full details.

This all very well Niloc BUT,
Your para 1.
Motorways aren't known for having many sharp bends, hard shoulders that suddenly disappear or many pot holes.
Para 2.
What are the chances of finding many trailers that comply with your 3 criteria? pretty slim I would think.
A caravan towed at 223.9 k/ph I can well believe, but in a straight line.
Para 3.
All very well on their roads but not on Irish roads. I lived in a village about 30 miles from Dortmund, West Germany (as it was then) back in the early '70's and even then I very rarely came across roads that were as bad as our N or R roads are now.

I say leave the speed limits as they are. On any reasonable trip, in this country, altering them would reduce your travelling time by such a small amount that it would hardly be noticed. And then, when you're in France or Germany make the most of their speed limits.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

This all very well Niloc BUT,
Your para 1.
Motorways aren't known for having many sharp bends, hard shoulders that suddenly disappear or many pot holes.
Para 2.
What are the chances of finding many trailers that comply with your 3 criteria? pretty slim I would think.
A caravan towed at 223.9 k/ph I can well believe, but in a straight line.
Para 3.
All very well on their roads but not on Irish roads. I lived in a village about 30 miles from Dortmund, West Germany (as it was then) back in the early '70's and even then I very rarely came across roads that were as bad as our N or R roads are now.

I say leave the speed limits as they are. On any reasonable trip, in this country, altering them would reduce your travelling time by such a small amount that it would hardly be noticed. And then, when you're in France or Germany make the most of their speed limits.

So why not allow a higher limit on motorways, 200kms on a motorway at 80 k/ph is mighty boring and drivers of private cars, unlike HGV drivers who must abide by the Driving Time Directive, are at a higher risk of loss of concentration if ambling along for many hours without a break. After all I am sure most of us are not 'conditioned' to such a slow speed on motorways particularly if driving a vehicle with power and performance to proceed more briskly.

As regards unroadworthy trailers, any conscientious driver should ensure their trailer is fit for purpose, BTW the coming roadworthiness test for light trailers/caravans should get rid of a lot of scrap which is currently towed behind vehicles

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

So why not allow a higher limit on motorways, 200kms on a motorway at 80 k/ph is mighty boring and drivers of private cars, unlike HGV drivers who must abide by the Driving Time Directive, are at a higher risk of loss of concentration if ambling along for many hours without a break. After all I am sure most of us are not 'conditioned' to such a slow speed on motorways particularly if driving a vehicle with power and performance to proceed more briskly.

As regards unroadworthy trailers, any conscientious driver should ensure their trailer is fit for purpose, BTW the coming roadworthiness test for light trailers/caravans should get rid of a lot of scrap which is currently towed behind vehicles

My apologies, completely mis-read/understood your first paragraph.
Although I can see where you're coming from with regard to motorways, the last time I towed anything in the U.K. the speed limit on motorways was 60mph,as far as I remember, which is 100k/ph. so not really worth the hassle of changing the law I would have thought. Also we still don't have that many miles of motorways here, I use a notorway about twice a year going to Dublin airport. If I'm driving for pleasure in the campervan I prefer the N roads.

With regard to unworthy trailers there was no mention in your post, nor in mine. I don't consider a trailer to be un-roadworthy just because the tyres are not at correct pressure or it's been loaded wrongly.

db

I believe the 80km/h limit on motorways is actually quite dangerous for caravans and should be increased to match the HGV limit. There is a huge amount of air turbulence around a HGV which can cause a caravan to become unstable if a HGV at higher speed is overtaking. In the UK where there are many more caravans on the road than here, this has anecdotally been blamed for snaking problems which can ultimately lead to the caravan overturning.

I would be in favour of a road-worthiness test for caravans here like they have in Germany. I was pitched on a site a couple of years ago when in rolled a caravan that was listing so badly it looked like it might fall over. It was also dragging a steady off the ground and looked like the body was almost detached from the chassis.

niloc1951

db wrote: »

I believe the 80km/h limit on motorways is actually quite dangerous for caravans and should be increased to match the HGV limit. There is a huge amount of air turbulence around a HGV which can cause a caravan to become unstable if a HGV at higher speed is overtaking. In the UK where there are many more caravans on the road than here, this has anecdotally been blamed for snaking problems which can ultimately lead to the caravan overturning...........................

A good point, however the limit for trailers (caravans) is the same as for HGV's i.e. 80 k/ph, even on motorways, so in theory they shouldn't be overtaking.

The issue about instability of caravans being caused by HGV's is very valid, I know this from personal experience.
However it is coaches, which in many countries are permitted to travel at 100/110 k/ph on motorways (70mph in the UK) which are a real problem as being 'bodied' down to road level cause an even greater 'bow wave' than HGV's and can really push you about when overtaking. This is probably why car/caravan and motorhome speed limits are often the same as for coaches if the HGV limit is lower.

Top Dog

I'd be fully in favour of increasing the limit for towing caravans to 62mph/100km/h on Motorways, but not on any other Irish roads (with the exception of the 120km/h speed limited dual carraigeways). On all other roads I'd say it should stay as it is.

And I post that as a tugger who's had many long and extremely boring journey's between Dublin and Cork with a caravan on the back.

sheehan12

niloc1951 wrote: »

In this country the legal speed limit for non passenger vehicles over 3,500kg is 80 k/ph, for any vehicle towing a trailer it's the same, even on motorways.

As regards trailer stability.
A trailer can become unstable even at 50 k/ph if its tyres are incorrectly inflated, its load is incorrectly distributed or the nose weight on the towing vehicles hitch is wrong.
A trailer which complies with the correct values for the three above criteria will tow safely at quite high speeds.
A speed of 223.9 k/ph was recorded for a caravan towed by a Mercedes S600 in October 2003

In Europe the speed limit for car/trailer combinations which do not exceed 3.5t is set differently (higher) than that for those which exceed the figure. In france the authorities seem happy to have it set to be the same as a solo car, 130 k/ph on motorways and in Germany if the trailer (caravan) has passed a roadworthiness test 100 k/ph is permitted.

See HERE for the full details.

the speed limit for hgv on motorway is now 90kph it change this year

niloc1951

sheehan12 wrote: »

the speed limit for hgv on motorway is now 90kph it change this year

I know the limit for buses was increased to 100 k/ph in '09 but never heard that there was a change for HGV's from 80 k/ph many of which are artics (vehicles with trailers) , any chance of a link to where you got the info.

shagman

My campervan is GVW 3350kg and I have a B licence does that mean I can only tow a trailer of 150kg (a carbon fibre trailer maybe) BUT if it was over the 3500kg mark I could tow one of 750kg?

niloc1951

shagman wrote: »

My campervan is GVW 3350kg and I have a B licence does that mean I can only tow a trailer of 150kg (a carbon fibre trailer maybe) BUT if it was over the 3500kg mark I could tow one of 750kg?

This is what Directive 2006/126/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 December 2006 on driving licences says on the matter.

Category B:

motor vehicles with a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3500 kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver; motor vehicles in this category may be combined with a trailer having a maximum authorised mass which does not exceed 750 kg.

Without prejudice to the provisions of type-approval rules for the vehicles concerned, motor vehicles in this category may be combined with a trailer with a maximum authorised mass exceeding 750 kg, provided that the maximum authorised mass of this combination does not exceed 4250 kg. In case such a combination exceeds 3500 kg, Member States shall, in accordance with the provisions of Annex V, require that this combination shall only be driven after:
- a training has been completed, or
- a test of skills and behaviour has been passed

It goes on to say
Member States shall adopt and publish, not later than 19 January 2011, the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply and They shall apply those provisions as from 19 January 2013

So, reading the first paragraph indicates that you can draw a trailer not exceeding 750kg. NOTE that this paragraph does not set out a maximum authorised mass for the combination, in reality however it would not exceed 4,250kg, (3500 + 750).
This is a new facility, a sort of a half way house between a B and a B+E licence which was included in the Directive after lobbying by the F.I.C.C. to address the problem of people with a B licence overloading 3,500kg vehicles, motorhomes in particular.

However, as stated in paragraph 2, if the trailer exceeds 750kg AND the maximum mass for the combination exceeds 3,500kg the addition training and/or test must be taken and passed.

So, in layman's language,

If the trailer is less than 750kg it can be towed by vehicle up to 3,500kg on a B licence

If the trailer is more than 750kg if the towing vehicle AND the trailer do not add up to more than 3,500kg, a B licence will do. If the combined weight is over 3,500kg but not over 4,250kg the new special training and or test must be done. You will not however get a B+E licence, it will probably be a code in the restrictions/information section of the licence.

If the combination is over 4,250 a full B+E licence is required.

Del2005

sheehan12 wrote: »

the speed limit for hgv on motorway is now 90kph it change this year

niloc1951 wrote: »

I know the limit for buses was increased to 100 k/ph in '09 but never heard that there was a change for HGV's from 80 k/ph many of which are artics (vehicles with trailers) , any chance of a link to where you got the info.

Rigids are 90km/h, towing is still 80km/h

niloc1951

Del2005 wrote: »

Rigids are 90km/h, towing is still 80km/h

We're nearly there, the 90 km/h is for artics too on motorways, see HERE.
However trailers drawn by passenger vehicles seem to be still 80 km/h. Towing a caravan at the legal limit on our motorways must now be a very uncomfortable experience with coached and HGV's constantly overtaking :eek:

Nice to see they have again forgotten about motor caravans over 3,500kg GVW, we can still drive at the same speeds as 'cars'. A 45' American RV Coach LIKE THIS cruising down the M7 ant 120 km/h would be a sight to behold.

Del2005

niloc1951 wrote: »

We're nearly there, the 90 km/h is for artics too on motorways, see HERE.
However trailers drawn by passenger vehicles seem to be still 80 km/h. Towing a caravan at the legal limit on our motorways must now be a very uncomfortable experience with coached and HGV's constantly overtaking :eek:

Good to see our government still can't get it's act together. The link I posted says towing vehicles are still restricted to 80km/h but yours says 90km/h for Artics, my link was posted 3 months after the statute was changed:eek: