Christmas shoeboxes

Banbh

It's that time of year again: The kids came home from school with leaflets asking them to fill shoeboxes with gifts to send to less-fortunate kids in other countries.

The organisation is Team Hope which operates out of a business park in south Dublin. Nowhere on the leaflet is it mentioned that the material will be used to prosletise children.

Checking the website of Team Hope I see it is described as 'An Irish Christian International Development Aid Agency' and that the shoeboxes when filled will have a 'Christmas Card' included. The text of the card is on their website and has a lot of the usual guff about Jesus and salvations etc.

My beef is that this organisation is using the public school network to do their nasty work. Primary teachers are giving this material out and organising the filling and return of the boxes under the deliberately false impression that this is a genuinely kind act.

In previous years there has been an outcry against this sneaky prosletising and I thought it was stopped by the Dept of Education. It seems not to be so.

I will contact the school, Dept of Ed and the media and try and get some light shone on this shady operation. Any back-up from others would be appreciated.

fitz0

You could hide your own anti-proselytising message in the box, stating that Jesus has nothing to do with your charity. Or ignore it, either way.

I don't like this kind of stuff and I remember it well from primary school. If a kid didn't contribute it was noticed in my school at least. As a curious note, it's funny how schools talk about children resisting peer pressure then reinforce it with some mandated peer pressure scenarios like this.

magicbastarder

stick a t-shirt in with this text on the front: 'all i got from jesus was this lousy ****ing t-shirt'.

robindch

I wonder if Atheist Ireland supply a few bags of tee-shirts?

pauldla

Banbh wrote: »

I will contact the school, Dept of Ed and the media and try and get some light shone on this shady operation. Any back-up from others would be appreciated.

I can't offer much other than moral support, I'm afraid, but I can provide that in buckets. Please let us know how it goes if you follow this up!

Banbh

Thanks Pauldla.
I've sent out a few emails to relevant bodies and will follow up later, and will post results here.

Dades

Is this the only type of charity drive allowed by the school, or could any organisation approach them with a similar request for help?

Though to be honest I'm not really offended by this. This is just a predictable result of the state school having a stated religious ethos, which is the real issue here. Until that changes the above will continue to happen.

Real Life

Whats wrong with what they are doing can i ask?
As far as i can see they arent proselytising. i know loads of people who do work for them and some of them arent even religious, arent they just trying to send toys to kids?
I dont see what the big deal is.

fitz0

They're using the Irish school system to further use children to proselytise to other children in developing countries. Irish kids fill the boxes with perhaps no religious motivation. The religious charity co-opts this charity by placing a Christmas card with a proselytizing message and sends it on. The message received on the other end is that Irish kids send toys in the name of Jesus.

Nothing wrong? Perhaps. Dishonest, definitely.

ShooterSF

Real Life wrote: »

Whats wrong with what they are doing can i ask?
As far as i can see they arent proselytising. i know loads of people who do work for them and some of them arent even religious, arent they just trying to send toys to kids?
I dont see what the big deal is.

It depends what they are doing. If they are " just trying to send toys to kids" and assuming they aren't restricting the gifts to christian kids what harm would taking out the card do or even replace it with one that is not christian specific? If an atheist organisation did the same but put in a card suggesting god doesn't exist I'd have the same problem by the way. Is it a message you are trying to give or just some gifts? That's not to say they're probably even aware of their proselytising. Often Irish people through their surroundings can forget not everyone shares their religious beliefs nor that their beliefs are controversial given their own cultural diluted view of them. I'd be pretty certain it's probably just something most of the people taking part don't even notice.

Banbh

So far I have discovered that Team Hope is a breakaway from the crowd run by US evangelist Billy Graham's son. That organisation was criticised on Boards in past years for giving the toys to kids only after they attended a religious meeting.

Team Hope have no mention of any religious affiliation on the leaflets they send through the schools; this is only available by checking their website and even then, you would need to be looking for it.

They are deceptive and are using the schools to help them prosletise for their particular brand of ignorance in countries where controls over this sort of thing are weak.

It's bad enough that Catholic priests and bishops have free access to our schools without this American-style evangelism using the schools as fund-raisers and recruiters for them. They need to be stopped.

Banbh

Banbh wrote: »

My beef is that this organisation is using the public school network to do their nasty work.

The problem as stated above is that we don't have a public school network at primary level - we have schools with a religious ethos funded by the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Primary_School_.28Bunscoil.29
Type of school Number (total: 3165) Percentage of total (to 1d.p.)
Roman Catholic 2,884 91.1%
Church of Ireland (Anglican) 180 5.7%
Multi-denominational 73 2.3%
Presbyterian 14 0.4%
Inter-Denominational 8 0.3%
Muslim 2 0.1%
Methodist 1 <0.1%
Jewish 1 <0.1%
Quaker 1 <0.1%
Other/Unknown 1 <0.1%

Luckily there is an Educate Together school near where I hope to settle down.

Edit:
If the school is an RC one I'm sure they wouldn't be impressed to find out they were supporting a competing brand of Christianity - have a word with the principal perhaps?

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

Edit:
If the school is an RC one I'm sure they wouldn't be impressed to find out they were supporting a competing brand of Christianity - have a word with the principal perhaps?

I hadn't thought of that.

What a deliciously ironic thing to amuse me as I walk the dogs.

Obliq

Pretty sure any organisation can approach the school, if that is what has happened. In my local N.S., a local "worthy and most definitely holier than thou" type literally accosts parents at the gate demanding to know how many shoe boxes are they contributing this year? As far as I remember (cos I haven't done it in a long time), ours is for some Chernobyl Children's charity. We get a letter home from the school as a reminder and a list of what is/isn't acceptable in the box. Nothing less than new stuff will do, and it is "recommended" that everything on the list is included, so no child will feel left out.
I haven't contributed to this in a while as it was very costly and I have enough trouble making ends meet. I had to firmly say to the woman that charity begins at home, before she'd leave me alone. The guilt tripping is astonishing, religious basis or no religious basis. That same woman confessed to me that she is in competition every year with her sister-in-law as to how many boxes each collects, and how hard it is for her because ours is such a small school.

Galvasean

Obliq wrote: »

That same woman confessed to me that she is in competition every year with her sister-in-law as to how many boxes each collects, and how hard it is for her because ours is such a small school.

My heart bleeds for her...

Obliq

Oh yes, mine too. Happily, I am in a position to hand-pick someone every year for a high-profile community job that is very much tongue in cheek "worthy". Have managed to get her to fall for it 3 years in a row

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Oh yes, mine too. Happily, I am in a position to hand-pick someone every year for a high-profile community job that is very much tongue in cheek "worthy". Have managed to get her to fall for it 3 years in a row

Ohhh you are evil.


I like you.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ohhh you are evil.


I like you.

Ditto, I'm sure! :cool:

gctest50

Deleted User wrote: »

If the school is an RC one I'm sure they wouldn't be impressed to find out they were supporting a competing brand of Christianity - have a word with the principal perhaps?

Didl should have their own brand of Christianity in for Christmas, it should work grand ( mit TUV approval !)

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/02/valentines-at-lidl/

Bannasidhe

gctest50 wrote: »

Didl should have their own brand in for Christmas, it should work ( mit TUV approval !) just as well as the others, but people might be a bit cagey of it since it cost less

Obliq

gctest50 wrote: »

Didl should have their own brand of Christianity in for Christmas, it should work grand ( mit TUV approval !)

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/02/valentines-at-lidl/

Nope, still , even with the edit. Um, context please??

MagicMarker

Out of curiosity OP is it a catholic school?

Banbh

It is a Catholic school and also the state-funded national school for the area.

Sulla Felix

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I hadn't thought of that.

What a deliciously ironic thing to amuse me as I walk the dogs.

I can hear the cackling from here. :P

Obliq wrote: »

Nope, still , even with the edit. Um, context please??

I think they mean to buy stuff at Lidl since they usually do cheap seasonal items?

Anyway, on the with the OP. I'd have less of a problem with this if it were upfront. It's the slyness of the whole thing.

gozunda

It smacks of a "newer version" of "Save the Black Babies" (in Africa) collections that were previously instigated by such organisations to collect money through manipulating the moral consciousness of children attending religous controlled schools .

It even became a moralising call for children reluctant to eat their dinners etc.
Good to see that such underhand tactics remain in the arsenal of these organisations - those were the days :rolleyes:

EDIT: Anyone else notice the scrolling Adverts attracted by the Key Words in posts? Bit ironic imo....

Banbh

This from the Dept of Ed:

Enquiries are being made about this matter and a further letter will issue as soon as possible.

Bannasidhe

gozunda wrote: »

It smacks of a "newer version" of "Save the Black Babies" (in Africa) collections that were previously instigated by such organisations to collect money through manipulating the moral consciousness of children attending religous controlled schools in previous years.

It even became a moralising call for children reluctant to eat their dinners etc.
Good to see that such underhand tactics remain in the arsenal of these organisations - those were the days :rolleyes:

My memory from my brief sojourn at a Catholic State was that failure to have the penny on a Monday morning resulted in being sent to see the head Nun. This required standing in shame in the corridor (mumbling about effing black babies) outside her office for about an hour until she had time to lay on the guilt trip in person.

Failure to eat over cooked, over salted, traditional Irish food meant a baby in Biafra died instantly. There and then. On the spot. Dead cos you didn't eat your veg.

Pointing out that if they were that close to death then the mashed up greenish gray lump of yuk on your plate really wasn't going to help them as it would be days before it got to them even if you posted it express or asking how me eating food would stop someone else from starving earned a slap upside the head.

Ah yes, happy days.

Obliq

Banbh wrote: »

The organisation is Team Hope which operates out of a business park in south Dublin. Nowhere on the leaflet is it mentioned that the material will be used to prosletise children.

Checking the website of Team Hope I see it is described as 'An Irish Christian International Development Aid Agency' and that the shoeboxes when filled will have a 'Christmas Card' included. The text of the card is on their website and has a lot of the usual guff about Jesus and salvations etc.

Ah, how about that. "Team Hope" leaflet home in the school bag today. I can't believe it actually. Bet the woman I was talking about will be pissed at the competition. Will mention it to the headmistress tomorrow - ta much for the alert - I wasn't so cross when it wasn't a religion-pushing charity actually (now why could that be?!), bring back my favourite guilt tripper, all is forgiven!

Obliq

Apparently they are teamed with A.R.M. http://africanrevivalministries.com/eglise-vivante
in the Congo - lots more stuff about bringing the message to poor people in the other countries they work in. Hmmm.

Hotblack Desiato

Banbh wrote: »

My beef is that this organisation is using the public school network to do their nasty work.

That is what the public school network in Ireland is for - spreading religion.

Education is a side effect!

Hotblack Desiato

Obliq wrote: »

As far as I remember (cos I haven't done it in a long time), ours is for some Chernobyl Children's charity. We get a letter home from the school as a reminder and a list of what is/isn't acceptable in the box. Nothing less than new stuff will do, and it is "recommended" that everything on the list is included, so no child will feel left out.

Chernobyl Children is the biggest charity scam going. Many of these kids parents weren't born when it happened. None of them have suffered demonstrable harm as a result of the accident, but the soft headed Irish keep paying up. Look, if you want to donate to Belarus (the last Stalinist regime in Europe) that's your decision, but FFS don't do it based on the false hook of a nuclear accident 27 years ago that had far less impact on people than predicted, and had had zero impact on any child alive today.

gozunda

ninja900 wrote: »

That is what the public school network in Ireland is for - spreading religion.

Education is a side effect!

AT THE CEREMONY for his inauguration as president of Mary Immaculate College of Education, one of the largest primary-teacher training colleges in the State, the Rev Prof Michael Hayes gave a speech that had many of those present, Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn included, shifting uncomfortably in their seats.

A clear challenge to the increasing perception of the need for more secular education, Hayes’s speech referred to the college’s Mercy tradition as an “essential part of our identity”... Quinn has been openly critical of the strong focus on religion in Mary Immaculate’s teacher-training programme. In 2010 the college was criticised by the Teaching Council, which monitors professional standards, for spending too much time teaching religion, noting that subjects such as science, history and geography were allotted 12 hours each in contrast to the 48 hours allotted to religious education.

Full article HERE

pauldla

subjects such as science, history and geography were allotted 12 hours each in contrast to the 48 hours allotted to religious education.

:mad::mad::mad:

PopePalpatine

ninja900 wrote: »

Banbh wrote: »

My beef is that this organisation is using the public school network to do their nasty work.

That is what the public school network in Ireland is for - spreading religion.

And saving the Irish language.

BTW, I just spotted one of their posters at my uni...

gozunda

pauldla wrote: »

subjects such as science, history and geography were allotted 12 hours each in contrast to the 48 hours allotted to religious education.

:mad::mad::mad:

48 hours of religious education is not education IMO it amounts to brainwashing
And we wonder why the rcc still rules this country.....

pauldla

gozunda wrote: »

48 hours of religious education is not education IMO it amounts to brainwashing
And we wonder why the rcc still rules this country.....

You said it, dude! That's much more than the students here get in "political science" (i.e. commie hogwash) each week.

Banbh

In Ireland 'political science' is still anti-communist hogwash.:)

FouxDaFaFa

I used to help out at the local "Operation Christmas Child" boxing centre. I never got a whiff of religion off of them or saw them add bibles or leaflets to the boxes, but judging by their website they must have been. They were the organisation using the schools for numbers where I was.

Q. WHAT IS THE MISSION OF OPERATION CHRISTMAS CHILD?

A. The mission of Operation Christmas Child is to demonstrate God's love in a tangible way to needy children around the world, and together with the local church worldwide, to share the Good News of Jesus Christ.

Jesus, I was fairly naive.

JustAThought

ninja900 wrote: »

Obliq wrote: »

As far as I remember (cos I haven't done it in a long time), ours is for some Chernobyl Children's charity. We get a letter home from the school as a reminder and a list of what is/isn't acceptable in the box. Nothing less than new stuff will do, and it is "recommended" that everything on the list is included, so no child will feel left out.

Chernobyl Children is the biggest charity scam going. Many of these kids parents weren't born when it happened. None of them have suffered demonstrable harm as a result of the accident, but the soft headed Irish keep paying up. Look, if you want to donate to Belarus (the last Stalinist regime in Europe) that's your decision, but FFS don't do it based on the false hook of a nuclear accident 27 years ago that had far less impact on people than predicted, and had had zero impact on any child alive today.

What guff. Have a look at Adi Roaches book Chernobyl Children ; look at all the images of tragic genetic mutations . I found it a truly shocking read. There isn't a three eyed fish on the Simpsons for nothing.

Belarous necklace ... Not a new idiom for no reason. And our government ( hilariously) issued us all emergency iodine tablets a few years ago ..why... Yes. There is science behind it all .

TheChizler

JustAThought wrote: »

ninja900 wrote: »

Obliq wrote: »

As far as I remember (cos I haven't done it in a long time), ours is for some Chernobyl Children's charity. We get a letter home from the school as a reminder and a list of what is/isn't acceptable in the box. Nothing less than new stuff will do, and it is "recommended" that everything on the list is included, so no child will feel left out.

Chernobyl Children is the biggest charity scam going. Many of these kids parents weren't born when it happened. None of them have suffered demonstrable harm as a result of the accident, but the soft headed Irish keep paying up. Look, if you want to donate to Belarus (the last Stalinist regime in Europe) that's your decision, but FFS don't do it based on the false hook of a nuclear accident 27 years ago that had far less impact on people than predicted, and had had zero impact on any child alive today.

What guff. Have a look at Adi Roaches book Chernobyl Children ; look at all the images of tragic genetic mutations . I found it a truly shocking read. There isn't a three eyed fish on the Simpsons for nothing.

Belarous necklace ... Not a new idiom for no reason. And our government ( hilariously) issued us all emergency iodine tablets a few years ago ..why... Yes. There is science behind it all .

Well if you're using Adi Roche as a primary source... :rolleyes:

I think the key word in that post that you're missing is TODAY.

Sulla Felix

Adi Roche is a Mother Teresa-like vampire that feeds on human suffering.

Hotblack Desiato

JustAThought wrote: »

What guff. Have a look at Adi Roaches book Chernobyl Children ; look at all the images of tragic genetic mutations .

Correlation is not causation. It suits all concerned to blame Chernobyl for every bad thing in the country though. Read the WHO report http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2006/9241594179_eng.pdf

WHO wrote:

there has, to date, been no epidemiological evidence of increased hereditary disease in the offspring of irradiated human populations

WHO wrote:

There has been a modest but steady increase of equal magnitude in reported congenital malformations in both contaminated and control areas since 1986. This does not appear to be radiation related and may be a result of increased observation or reporting.

...

I found it a truly shocking read. There isn't a three eyed fish on the Simpsons for nothing.

It's there because it taps into public hysteria and ignorance in relation to anything 'noo-cu-lar'.

Belarous necklace ... Not a new idiom for no reason.

That's thyroid cancer which is a well known effect but only on people alive at the time of the accident, iodine-131 has a very short half life (8 days) so within three months there is effectively none left. Thankfully it's highly treatable.

And our government ( hilariously) issued us all emergency iodine tablets a few years ago ..why... Yes. There is science behind it all .

The distribution of tablets here was ridiculous, whipped up by media and public hysteria. If you think there is science behind this, would you care to share?

Bannasidhe

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Adi Roche is a Mother Teresa-like vampire that feeds on human suffering.

I know a few people who 'worked' with Adi way back in her Amnesty days who share your assessment.

Banbh

Surely slanderous remarks about a person should be backed up with evidence rather than name-calling. I find it demeaning, not just to the person, but to my intelligence and is beneath the standard expected on A+A.

pauldla

Banbh wrote: »

Surely slanderous remarks about a person should be backed up with evidence rather than name-calling. I find it demeaning, not just to the person, but to my intelligence and is beneath the standard expected on A+A.

I agree. Tell us why that person is a ****. But give me a chance to get the popcorn out of the microwave first.

lynski

I was quite surprised to see a team hope leaflet coming home from my childs pre-school. i will not be filling one as i think she and i think she is too young to realise.
Mostly people mean well, but if you are catholic or culturally catholic then you will not even begin to understand that there is something wrong with this.

Sulla Felix

Alright, I'll take a stab at it.

On the nuclear power issue she has a pretty nice gig going where she conflates all and any tangential issues with the dangers of the nuclear power she actively campaigns against.
Ninja900 has nicely outlined the major issues with her work in Chernobyl above but in short: She lies, repeatedly, by correlating all birth abnormalities in the region with the nuclear accident despite any differences in the radiated population not being different to a statistically signifigant degree from control groups.
She uses these lies, and the associated publicity to drive a massively successful fund raising vehicle.
Now, I'm not for a moment belittling the tragedy of abnormal children. Some of the fund raised is used for palliative care which is fantastic. The rest goes on administration and ongoing fund raising efforts.
If there was a little more intellectual honesty and adherence to the scientific method however, at least some of the money would be spent on studying the largely genetic basis for a lot of the deformities.
Rather than that though, she harnesses the human suffering for her own goal, a scientifically unsound, ideologically driven desire to see all nuclear power plants worldwide wound down.

AtomicHorror

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Alright, I'll take a stab at it.

On the nuclear power issue she has a pretty nice gig going where she conflates all and any tangential issues with the dangers of the nuclear power she actively campaigns against.
Ninja900 has nicely outlined the major issues with her work in Chernobyl above but in short: She lies, repeatedly, by correlating all birth abnormalities in the region with the nuclear accident despite any differences in the radiated population not being different to a statistically signifigant degree from control groups.
She uses these lies, and the associated publicity to drive a massively successful fund raising vehicle.
Now, I'm not for a moment belittling the tragedy of abnormal children. Some of the fund raised is used for palliative care which is fantastic. The rest goes on administration and ongoing fund raising efforts.
If there was a little more intellectual honesty and adherence to the scientific method however, at least some of the money would be spent on studying the largely genetic basis for a lot of the deformities.
Rather than that though, she harnesses the human suffering for her own goal, a scientifically unsound, ideologically driven desire to see all nuclear power plants worldwide wound down.

It would be next to impossible to shift her stance without looking like either an idiot or an opportunist.

GarIT

I didn't do it when we were supposed to last year. No matter what you put in the box you are doing a lot more harm to those children than good if there are any religious messages put in the box. Hopefully the kids that get them can't read.

Banbh

The kids may have to turn up to a religious service to get their boxes. This was the case with the previous scam and I presume that Team Hope are at the same game.
The deception on their leaflet - not mentioning that they are a religious organisation - would lead me to believe that they are equally deceptive when giving out the boxes.

GarIT

PopePalpatine wrote: »

BTW, I just spotted one of their posters at my uni...

Where is it? Think we should try to get it taken down?