Christmas shoeboxes

pauldla

GarIT wrote: »

Where is it? Think we should try to get it taken down?

Tear it down, or spray paint an Anarchy symbol over it! That's what we did in my day! Students these days.....tsk...

robindch

Sulla Felix wrote: »

On the nuclear power issue she has a pretty nice gig going where she conflates all and any tangential issues with the dangers of the nuclear power she actively campaigns against.

[citation needed]

Banbh

It's strange that people are so pro-nuclear power and feel so threatened by its growing rejection that they would derail a thread on a religious scam to vent their anger at a person who has not - unless anyone knows something to the contrary - used her position to influence the religious beliefs of others.

jhegarty

Banbh wrote: »

The kids may have to turn up to a religious service to get their boxes. This was the case with the previous scam and I presume that Team Hope are at the same game.
The deception on their leaflet - not mentioning that they are a religious organisation - would lead me to believe that they are equally deceptive when giving out the boxes.

Any they may have to fly to the moon to collect them.

Do you have any proof ?

Banbh

As I think I said earlier, I don't know specifically what the Team Hope phonies are up to but presume they operate along similar lines to the organisation they split from.

Here's a video of Operation Christmas Child distributing boxes, "opening the door for Jesus". It is extremely smarmy and should not be viewed after eating.
http://vimeo.com/30315629

And here's a link to the British Humanist Association's response with their own alternative shoebox appeal. I suggest that those who have children being pressurised into filling boxes at school go along and then send the complete box to the BHA - I think this is what I'll do myself.

Any they may have to fly to the moon to collect them

Don't go for comedy; you can't hack it.

Banbh

This is the British Humanist's alternative:
http://www.humanism.org.uk/humanism/humanism-today/humanists-doing/charities/samaritans-purse

PopePalpatine

GarIT wrote: »

Where is it? Think we should try to get it taken down?

In the John Hume Building, next to lecture hall #2.

Banbh

Reply from the Dept of Ed on shoeboxes. To save you time it says: "piss off; nothing to do with us."

Under the 1998 Education Act, legally, all schools are managed, on behalf of the school Patron or Trustees, by school Boards of Management who employ the teachers at the school. The Education Act also assigns each Board of Management and Principal Teacher responsibility for the day-to day management of schools.

There is no requirement for the Department to approve any charity works that the school may engage in. This is a matter for the Board of management of the school.

However, if you wish to make a complaint about the school engaging in this activity you should speak to the school principal. If the issue is not resolved to your satisfaction you can bring it to the attention of the chairperson of the school's Board of Management.

Bannasidhe

Banbh wrote: »

Reply from the Dept of Ed on shoeboxes. To save you time it says: "piss off; nothing to do with us."

A.K.A The Dept. of Education's standard get-out clause for everything.

We don't employ the teachers - the Patron/ board of Management does = nothing to do with us we just pay the wages.

We don't set school policy - the Patron/board of management does = nothing to do with us we just provide the funding.

We just set the curriculum and insist on religion being taught.


Pure, unadulterated buck passing Irish stylee.

Obliq

Yes, it's a proper pass the buck alright. As far as I remember, from being parents assoc. and B.O.M.(briefly), you are advised to take it up with your parent's rep on the BOM first, then, if nothing done - put your complaint IN WRITING (that's the key) to the BOM. Then they have to deal with it. If you don't follow the procedure, they don't have to deal with it at all. If the complaint is not dealt with satisfactorily by the BOM, then and only then can you go on to the Dept.

Gotta say though, I personally would deal with it in a "I am drawing the Board's attention to this, in case you were unaware... (that TeamHope are missionaries and only give out pressies in return for the immortal souls of small children). Express how you are sure this can't be a reflection of the school's ethos and your one and only direct question that they need to answer to you (should be an easy one that they don't have to spend hours debating) could be something like - Is this a charitable practice that the school supports?

Banbh

Thanks for that sound advice. I may get to speak to the teacher and even the principal at the cake sale next week so I might try an informal approach first.

Obliq

Good idea:-) Don't forget to say you're all for charitable Christmas shoeboxes that don't have a religious stipulation attached to receiving them. And then maybe do ask what the school's policy is on that religious agenda?

antiskeptic

Banbh wrote: »

It's that time of year again: The kids came home from school with leaflets asking them to fill shoeboxes with gifts to send to less-fortunate kids in other countries.

The organisation is Team Hope which operates out of a business park in south Dublin. Nowhere on the leaflet is it mentioned that the material will be used to prosletise children.

Checking the website of Team Hope I see it is described as 'An Irish Christian International Development Aid Agency' and that the shoeboxes when filled will have a 'Christmas Card' included. The text of the card is on their website and has a lot of the usual guff about Jesus and salvations etc.

My beef is that this organisation is using the public school network to do their nasty work. Primary teachers are giving this material out and organising the filling and return of the boxes under the deliberately false impression that this is a genuinely kind act.

In previous years there has been an outcry against this sneaky prosletising and I thought it was stopped by the Dept of Education. It seems not to be so.

I will contact the school, Dept of Ed and the media and try and get some light shone on this shady operation. Any back-up from others would be appreciated.

Bah humbug!

I've seen the pictures that have come back. And have seen the tired, worn young faces - at first puzzled for want of ever had a toy of their own - break out into cautious smiles.

Let me know when your worldview manages to organize itself sufficient to bring that level of joy into that many lives every year. When it does, if ever it does, I'll admire the love that drives it so and won't mind you pointing others to where you believe the source of that love is to be found.

By their fruits ye shall know them applies as much to you guys as to anyone else. So where is it?

Sarky

Why so grumpy?

gozunda

antiskeptic wrote: »

Bah humbug!

I've seen the pictures that have come back. And have seen the tired, worn young faces - at first puzzled for want of ever had a toy of their own - break out into cautious smiles.

Let me know when your worldview manages to organize itself sufficient to bring that level of joy into that many lives every year. When it does, if ever it does, I'll admire the love that drives it so and won't mind you pointing others to where you believe the source of that love is to be found.

By their fruits ye shall know them applies as much to you guys as to anyone else. So where is it?

Ah yes the old christian missions bringing joy and enlightenment to the dark(er) corners of the globe. Doing it to save them from themselves and damnation...lovely!

What "tired, worn young faces"??? ehh I must be looking at the wrong documentaries.

If they are not practising christians then there not going to be expecting "Chtist Mass" presents are they?

"Joy" for receiving the contents of a small box of tat sent direct from some brainwashing right wingers hell bent on getting a bigger membership base, I think not.

Your "joy" and "source of Love" can be whatever you wish it to be. And before you start I am not about to get into a long discussion on who's imaginary friend is the best btw! And to answer your question my fruit is a small round loganberry - its in a bowl in the fridge - wheres yours?


But the morality of using uninformed kids on one side of the planet to provide the products of bribery for use by some faceless organistion on kids on the other side of the planet in an blatent attempt of bringing "Joy" and "love" is simply tarted up brainwashing....

The sooner this kind of behaviour is outlawed the better for the planet...

UDP

My employer (a large company) is going to be collecting shoeboxes for this organisation from staff.

Looking up on the net about them I came across this apparently from the organisation posted here:
http://www.rollercoaster.ie/Discussions/tabid/119/ForumThread/14958686/Default.aspx

We were Samaritan’s Purse Ireland with the Irish charity number CHY 14524 and for the past 10 years we have been doing the shoeboxes throughout Ireland. We were an affiliate office to Samaritan’s Purse USA, as was England, Canada & Holland.

On August 1st this year our board took the decision to separate from Samaritan’s Purse international and become a wholly Irish charity called Team Hope and we were able to keep the same charity number.

The reason we separated from Samaritan’s Purse is because they being a global organization wanted all the affiliated office to be the same as they were and in doing so they wanted us to offer a 10 week bible study course to every child receiving an Irish box. We didn’t think this was appropriate because we have always given the boxes to children of all faiths and no faiths. We didn’t want to be putting conditions on to those receiving the boxes.

Samaritan’s Purse in the UK have started up a office in Irishtown Dublin and are promoting Operation Christmas Child through Evangelical Churches only, they do not have a charity number as they are a UK organization and they are not using ours.

It might look as if we both are using the same charity number because if you were to Google Samaritans Purse you will see our old web pages from before the 1st of August which will have our information, address, staff , charity number etc, but you will also find “Samaritans Purse UK/Ireland” which is being operated through the UK & Irishtown and they quote an England and Wales charity number.

We don’t and never have put any religious literature in the boxes but do offer where appropriate a Christmas card which you can see on our website www.teamhope.ie

I hope (no pun intended) its true since it seems like there is a huge collection going on right around the country. A good point was made on the site linked about in that if team hope split in august 2010 then how could they have arranged the delivery of the shoeboxes to those countries in 3 months without using the existing samaritans purse network.

Obliq

UDP wrote: »

My employer (a large company) is going to be collecting shoeboxes for this organisation from staff.

Looking up on the net about them I came across this apparently from the organisation posted here:
http://www.rollercoaster.ie/Discussions/tabid/119/ForumThread/14958686/Default.aspx

I hope (no pun intended) its true since it seems like there is a huge collection going on right around the country. A good point was made on the site linked about in that if team hope split in august 2010 then how could they have arranged the delivery of the shoeboxes to those countries in 3 months without using the existing samaritans purse network.

That's very interesting UDP - does go to show that the Samaritan's purse crowd were basically selling the boxes to children anyway. Would be good to know that Teamhope aren't......might phone them later on and see what they say. And bring up the point about the supply network. Nice one
Interesting discussion at that link too.

Banbh

...It’s a time of year when we specially think about Jesus, who is
God’s gift to everyone. The gifts in this shoebox are lovely, but they will not last forever. But Jesus, the greatest gift you could receive at Christmas time, is forever. Jesus came from heaven to earth, and was born into a poor family. He lived with ordinary people and He loved ordinary people – just like you. He still loves everyone today. You can be His friend, you can get to know Him and feel his special love for you. If you ask Jesus, you can be friends with God and He will be with you forever. He will care for you and love you always...

This is some of the text from their 'Christmas card'. If the organisation doesn't say who they are and what their mission is when approaching the schools, I conclude that they are equally desceptive when 'distributing' the 'gifts'. Also we know what the organisation they allegedly split from was doing - making kids attend gospel meetings etc to get their boxes.
This is a major fund-raising scam for Christian fundamentalists to help them propagate their flat-earth, anti-science nonsense, masquerading as bringing 'love' to children in poor circumstances.
That Irish schools and businesses fall for it, angers me a lot.
.

UDP

Banbh wrote: »

This is some of the text from their 'Christmas card'. If the organisation doesn't say who they are and what their mission is when approaching the schools, I conclude that they are equally desceptive when 'distributing' the 'gifts'. Also we know what the organisation they allegedly split from was doing - making kids attend gospel meetings etc to get their boxes.
This is a major fund-raising scam for Christian fundamentalists to help them propagate their flat-earth, anti-science nonsense, masquerading as bringing 'love' to children in poor circumstances.
That Irish schools and businesses fall for it, angers me a lot.
.

That does not sound like a Christmas card to me but religious literature wrapped up in a Christmas card. I wonder how many people who donate shoe boxes know what is being added to the shoebox before it reaches the child.

car.kar

At the end of the day, these are small boxes with presents that are being given to needy children. I personally don't care if they go with "god's love" or not, and I doubt the child getting it sits there and thinks "oh goodness, god loves me so much!" They're trying to survive day by day - they've been given some presents that they don't normally get and they're pretty excited, that's probably all that's going through their heads.

I give a shoebox every year, have done for ages. Some where a poor kid gets a few crappy presents that I bought in a euro shop. I don't care if he or she believes in god, and they probably don't care if I do. I've never once considered the religious aspect about what I'm doing, all I'm thinking about is what the kid would like in a shoebox.

I don't see what they huge deal is about the religious part - its a charity set up and run by christian people, of course they're going to promote christianity.

I've seen many comments from people saying "why can't we donate a shoebox without the religious affiliation?", "yes I'd certainly do that", "oh me too"... well go find one then. Trouble with that is, there isn't one. Feel free to start your own up if you're really that bothered by how kids get presents. At the end of the day, a vast majority of charities are run by christians, so of course they're going to try and promote god. They're not going to get rid of the religious aspect - and why would they, if you were atheist and running a similar charity, you wouldn't mention god when you were delivering shoeboxes.

There is no other way to send a shoebox to a kid somewhere, so if it has to be done through a christian charity, then so be it. I don't know what you'd hope to happen by not participating - its not going to make the charity suddenly decide to abandon the religious part of their work, all that's going to happen is that a few less kids get a few less presents. Unless someone with no belief in any religion starts organising something similar themselves, 'Team Hope' and 'Operation chirstmas child' are the only options.

If someone would like to go ahead and set up a shoebox charity that isn't associated with any religion, off you go and I'll give my shoebox to you next year. They all go to needy children one way or another.

And before I get any stick over it - I do not believe in God at all or any sort of higher power. I take no part whatsoever in organised religion and have not done for many years.

Banbh

As posted earlier in this thread:

This is the British Humanist's alternative:
http://www.humanism.org.uk/humanism/...maritans-purse

iguana

car.kar wrote: »

There is no other way to send a shoebox to a kid somewhere, so if it has to be done through a christian charity, then so be it.

I've worked in both international development and children's charities and the thing is there is a reason for that. A really good reason. It's a terrible, terrible way of distributing aid. It's not cost effective and it's damaging to local economies. Very damaging. Sending western goods into 'developing' countries is harmful. And considering the fact that a huge amount of those toys have come from developing world sweatshops, only to be bought with the express purpose of sending them back to similar economies it's just mindboggling ineffective as an act of support. (It's also dreadful in environmental terms). People like the idea of sending a lovely present to some poor child however effective charity isn't about how we feel, it's about actually helping to improve lives.

When it comes to development aid, you should never, ever, ever bring any physical object which can be produced locally into the country. The aim should always be to maximise the good the aid can do in the locality and to never harm the economy locally. You do this by only bringing in what doesn't exist locally. Toys can be produced locally in the types of areas these shoebox appeals service. The kids who get those toys probably really like them in that moment. But you can guarantee that what they would like better is if those toys were either not bought, if bought specifically, or if already owned by the donors were donated to a western charity shop, and the money donated/raised was then used to support their economy locally. Ensuring that their mother/father were able to earn a steady wage to feed and clothe them regularly, to educate them so they can have a more secure future themselves, and when they do have spare money, buy them toys that were made and sold locally and therefore support the economy of the toymaker and seller.

robindch

car.kar wrote: »

I give a shoebox every year, have done for ages.

car.kar wrote: »

I take no part whatsoever in organised religion and have not done for many years.

Umm...

car.kar

Banbh wrote: »

As posted earlier in this thread:

Yes I've seen that. It gives alternative options to a shoebox, all of which are excellent; I've sent animal gifts from Oxfam plenty of times. But the point I was making is that people seemed to be trying to dissuade Team Hope from promoting religion with the shoeboxes, and were looking either to complain about that or to find another way to send a shoebox. Not seek alternative gifts. But I do agree that these are good options.

iguana wrote: »

I've worked in both international development and children's charities and the thing is there is a reason for that. A really good reason. It's a terrible, terrible way of distributing aid. It's not cost effective and it's damaging to local economies. Very damaging. Sending western goods into 'developing' countries is harmful. And considering the fact that a huge amount of those toys have come from developing world sweatshops, only to be bought with the express purpose of sending them back to similar economies it's just mindboggling ineffective as an act of support. (It's also dreadful in environmental terms). People like the idea of sending a lovely present to some poor child however effective charity isn't about how we feel, it's about actually helping to improve lives.

When it comes to development aid, you should never, ever, ever bring any physical object which can be produced locally into the country. The aim should always be to maximise the good the aid can do in the locality and to never harm the economy locally. You do this by only bringing in what doesn't exist locally. Toys can be produced locally in the types of areas these shoebox appeals service. The kids who get those toys probably really like them in that moment. But you can guarantee that what they would like better is if those toys were either not bought, if bought specifically, or if already owned by the donors were donated to a western charity shop, and the money donated/raised was then used to support their economy locally. Ensuring that their mother/father were able to earn a steady wage to feed and clothe them regularly, to educate them so they can have a more secure future themselves, and when they do have spare money, buy them toys that were made and sold locally and therefore support the economy of the toymaker and seller.

Don't buy shoeboxes then. Perhaps I've missed the point and if I have I apologise, but what I was getting from this thread is that people were simply complaining about how this christian charity was promoting god and jesus with their shoeboxes, and that this was just a place to give out about it. If you don't like it then leave it be and find an alternative type of gift to donate, because they're never going to stop banging on about jesus's love, no matter how much you complain to your child's school principal that you'd like to donate a non religious shoebox; what do you expect him or her to be able to do about it? Ring the charity and ask if they'd mind giving your box to an atheist child?

And we'll have to agree to disagree... I can't afford to make a donation large enough to educate a child's mother so she can get a job... I can afford to donate some toys, so that is what I'll do. Your statement regarding buying locally made toys to help the economy makes perfect sense and I completely agree with you there, but unless you can link me to a charity that collects donations so they can do that, then I'll still continue to give shoeboxes.

car.kar

robindch wrote: »

Umm...

ummm what? Donating to a charity that supports a god I don't believe in is not what I'd consider participating in organised religion. Its what I consider donating to charity.

GarIT

car.kar wrote: »

ummm what? Donating to a charity that supports a god I don't believe in is not what I'd consider participating in organised religion. Its what I consider donating to charity.

But the charity uses your donations to convince children to become christian.

gozunda

GarIT wrote: »

But the charity uses your donations to convince children to become christian.

Otherwise called brainwashing...

atlas10

I saw this thread on google and thought it best to answer some of the hatred on here.

Firstly having actually seen how Operation Christmas Child (Team Hope over here) works I can tell you for a fact that they do not include a leaflet when a parcel is sent to a predominately muslim country.

Secondly if you think that getting a christmas present doesnt make a difference to a child who has nothing, who lives in a sewer (as many children in Romania and parts of Eastern Europe do) then you are tragically mistaken. And yes I have actually met a couple who had payed many thousands to go with the lorries and hand out the parcels to children, I wonder if you would be prepared to do that at your own expense instead of spewing out hatred against christians online?

I can look on ministrywatch.com and see exactly how the money they raise is spent and it gives a clear indication of the scale of the work they have done to help people around the world. I wonder if you would be prepared to fly out to a war zone and help feed 100,000 people or rebuild 804 houses in El Salvador?


Regards

atlas10

atlas10 wrote: »

I wonder if you would be prepared to fly out to a war zone and help feed 100,000 people or rebuild 804 houses in El Salvador?

Christmas shoeboxes can do all that? They must be some shoeboxes.

gozunda

bluewolf wrote: »

Christmas shoeboxes can do all that? They must be some shoeboxes.

Them is magical shoeboxes that do miracles ... Amazing!

Banbh

Dear Atlas10,

Thanks for answering my hatred but you haven't addressed the cause of it. I hate (personally I prefer oppose) this particular aspect of religion because it uses the kindness of children and parents in our schools to infiltrate other cultures and insinuate its evil into new communities. And by evil I mean getting children to believe that rich white men are their salvation, that they will live forever, that by chanting meaningless incantations they can prevent sickness, hunger and pain, that the way forward for them is in attending hymn-singing and fund-raising for the interlopers and obeying their power.

And by evil I mean getting money and gifts from children and parents in Ireland under the pretext of giving a gift to a child when in fact they are fund-raising for a nasty anti-science, anti-reason crusade which will keep people in ignorance and poverty.

I must thank you for confirming that Team Hope is in fact Operation Christmas Child under a new name - presumably to deceive Irish parents as OCC was exposed here in previous years.

Ireland has a proud record in helping in the developing world through many agencies - UN, Goal, Trocaire etc - and directly through the Government's aid programme. Many, many Irish people travel and assist at their own expense in a variety of projects and you have a hard neck making assumptions about posters here.

I am also indebted to you for revealing that this front organisation is linked to "ministry.com" and that the money raised under the guise of Team Hope is spent by that organisation. I will certainly be looking into that aspect of the fraud.

UDP

Banbh wrote: »

I am also indebted to you for revealing that this front organisation is linked to "ministry.com" and that the money raised under the guise of Team Hope is spent by that organisation. I will certainly be looking into that aspect of the fraud.

I might be missing something but I thought the poster mentioned "ministrywatch.com" not "ministry.com".

homer911

Banbh wrote: »

Dear Atlas10,

Thanks for answering my hatred but you haven't addressed the cause of it. I hate (personally I prefer oppose) this particular aspect of religion because it uses the kindness of children and parents in our schools to infiltrate other cultures and insinuate its evil into new communities. And by evil I mean getting children to believe that rich white men are their salvation, that they will live forever, that by chanting meaningless incantations they can prevent sickness, hunger and pain, that the way forward for them is in attending hymn-singing and fund-raising for the interlopers and obeying their power.

And by evil I mean getting money and gifts from children and parents in Ireland under the pretext of giving a gift to a child when in fact they are fund-raising for a nasty anti-science, anti-reason crusade which will keep people in ignorance and poverty.

I must thank you for confirming that Team Hope is in fact Operation Christmas Child under a new name - presumably to deceive Irish parents as OCC was exposed here in previous years.

Ireland has a proud record in helping in the developing world through many agencies - UN, Goal, Trocaire etc - and directly through the Government's aid programme. Many, many Irish people travel and assist at their own expense in a variety of projects and you have a hard neck making assumptions about posters here.

I am also indebted to you for revealing that this front organisation is linked to "ministry.com" and that the money raised under the guise of Team Hope is spent by that organisation. I will certainly be looking into that aspect of the fraud.

You seem to have swallowed a bucket of vitriol and are keen to vomit it on any well intentioned group that is not atheist!

There are no conditions attached to the receiving of a shoebox. Having volunteered at their sandyford depot I can categorically confirm that there is no religious material included. They even go to great lengths to remove anything with a war theme from the boxes. Have you looked at any of the video's of the kids getting the boxes?

ministrywatch is a charity monitoring organisation .. if you had bothered to look at the site. They make sure charities spend their money as described. The donations received with the shoebox is used to pay for transportation and for the very limited charity staff. I am sure they would be happy to provide you with a copy of their accounts if you bothered to ask..

The fallout with occ was because of their conditional gifts - this is true. The Irish organisation was totally against this and believes that giving a gift is it's own reward

UDP

homer911 wrote: »

You seem to have swallowed a bucket of vitriol and are keen to vomit it on any well intentioned group that is not atheist!

There are no conditions attached to the receiving of a shoebox. Having volunteered at their sandyford depot I can categorically confirm that there is no religious material included. They even go to great lengths to remove anything with a war theme from the boxes. Have you looked at any of the video's of the kids getting the boxes?

ministrywatch is a charity monitoring organisation .. if you had bothered to look at the site. They make sure charities spend their money as described. The donations received with the shoebox is used to pay for transportation and for the very limited charity staff. I am sure they would be happy to provide you with a copy of their accounts if you bothered to ask..

The fallout with occ was because of their conditional gifts - this is true. The Irish organisation was totally against this and believes that giving a gift is it's own reward

I thought they include a christmas card with religious writing on the inside?

It looks like this is the card:
https://secure.teamhope.ie/media/ChristmasCard2010.pdf

...
In Ireland, people give each other gifts at Christmas. This shoebox gift will help you celebrate Christmas too. It’s a time of year when we specially think about Jesus, who is God’s gift to everyone. The gifts in this shoebox are lovely, but they will not last forever. But Jesus, the greatest gift you could receive at Christmas time, is forever.

Jesus came from heaven to earth, and was born into a poor family. He lived with ordinary people and He loved ordinary people – just like you. He still loves everyone today. You can be His friend, you can get to know Him and feel his special love for you. If you ask Jesus, you can be friends with God and He will be with you forever. He will care for you and love you always.
...

homer911

UDP wrote: »

I thought they include a christmas card with religious writing on the inside?

It looks like this is the card:
https://secure.teamhope.ie/media/ChristmasCard2010.pdf

I've never seen cards of any kind going into the boxes. I understand that if a local partner organisation requests it, one can be included. Team hope guidelines are strict on the lack of conditionality (or else it wouldn't be a gift)

To be honest, most of the kids who get these can barely speak English, never mind read it!

Banbh

You seem to have swallowed a bucket of vitriol and are keen to vomit it on any well intentioned group that is not atheist!

Is this some Christian discussion technique? Yech! Could you not just damn me to hell?

Anyways, suppose the Tea Party of the US or the Communist Party of China or the Iranian Jihadist Society were to deliver packets of sweets to your children - just out of the kindness of their hearts because they know the sweets would bring a smile to your child's face and a little bit of happiness on Mao's birthday or the Ayatollah's coronation. And suppose they included a little message or an invitation to attend the Iranian Embassy or wherever for a series of talks and more sweets, would that be acceptable? Any right-thinking person would immediately see what they were up to - using children to spread their message.

This Christian group not only uses children to intrude into other cultures but they get kids here in Ireland to prepare their propaganda for them while deceiving their parents about the objective.

The boxes require a cash donation from the kid that fills it and this goes to the organisers and not the target child. It is also a requirement that the boxes are not sealed so that the organisers can include whatever they want.

If these Christians were genuinely interested in helping children in other countries, why not work through UNICEF or any other legitimate charity?
We know the answer.

fishy fishy

i think maybe instead of questioning whats on the card, you should question whether the boxes even get there. I'm not saying they don't but it wouldn't surprise me if these boxes never leave Ireland.

I used to do up a few of these boxes at Christmas. I also used to "buy" an animal from bother every year. However I stopped pretty promptly when they started bombarding me with color booklets and brochures every few weeks, sending me forms to fill out so I could donate "tax refunds" to them. Bothar should not be allowed do all these full color glossy mail outs to people - they should concentrate on what they are supposed to be doing - providing animals to poorer countries.

I have given up hope on "charities". I do donate - my own money to a local charity where I can SEE where the money and items are going. That's good enough for me.

car.kar

fishy fishy wrote: »

However I stopped pretty promptly when they started bombarding me with color booklets and brochures every few weeks, sending me forms to fill out so I could donate "tax refunds" to them.

I don't really see the problem with tax refunds? I did one for Plan, took me all of thirty seconds, makes absolutely zero difference to me or my income - its not me giving them any more of my money - and they get some extra cash for the charity. Simple enough.

Its when I start getting brochures asking me to please donate more, or sponsor an additional child, or buy more animals ... that's annoying.

hardCopy

This lot were just on Nationwide. How are they getting national airtime?

They were part of a group asking us for charity work through our employer recently and this thread rang a bell.
Are they still doing this proselytising?

I'll be speaking up about it if this is the case

Kiwi in IE

I can't wait to get this 'shoe box'. I shall go into Amazon right now to find age appropriate books on evolution and religions other than Christianity to fill it when it comes.

Kiwi in IE

Here's a great shoe box filler;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1885356625

Kiwi in IE

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I can't wait to get this 'shoe box'. I shall go into Amazon right now to find age appropriate books on evolution and religions other than Christianity to fill it when it comes.

We were told already that they "check the boxes to make sure the kids don't get anything they shouldn't be getting" ...

Kiwi in IE

Other fantastic ideas here;

http://booksforkidsingayfamilies.blogspot.ie/?m=1

Kiwi in IE

bluewolf wrote: »

We were told already that they "check the boxes to make sure the kids don't get anything they shouldn't be getting" ...

I'd like to see their list of what they 'shouldn't be getting'!

Banbh

I'd like to see their list of what they 'shouldn't be getting'!

Anything that wasn't written more than three hundred years ago for a start.

Bannasidhe

Banbh wrote: »

Anything that wasn't written more than three hundred years ago for a start.

Really?

Ohhh...I have some very interesting stuff written 500 years ago I'd be happy to donate.

Gordon

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Here's a great shoe box filler;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1885356625

New from $91.70

Must be a good book!

littleredspot

New - $1,015.23

A very good book!

Gordon

The Spanish version is better quality: 2 Used from $4,698. And it's only 3.2 ounces too!