Deli or pre-made sandwiches?

bogwalrus

I'm not too sure what direction to take regarding a new business.


What are the main pro's and con's for choosing either deli or just having a nice fridge display with lots of pre made stuff.

The business is a visitor center for the many tourists that stop in the town (right outside the door).

I am hoping to attract the tourists in to buy all the tourist stuff but also have locals use it as a quick stop shop to get a coffee, sandwich, snack etc.


My thoughts are that If i commit to a full deli it might interfere with the "tourist" aspect of the business whereas if i just have some shop stuff with a drink and sandwich fridge it might be better and more balanced.

I really need the locals of the town to use it as a quick stop shop as well as sell stuff to the tourists that visit.

I should also say the location is amazing and i can see a full size shop doing well in this spot on its own but the town needs a tourist shop also as we do get loads of buses with very little for them to buy in the town at the moment.

Thanks in Advance,
boggy

MyPerfectCousin

Pre-made stuff appeals to take-away customers and people in a hurry. It's difficult to sell on quality so prices would have to be keen. Fresh made deli sandwiches take longer to prepare so they aren't great for takeaways, but nobody wants to sit down in a cafe and be served a packaged sandwich and eat-in customers allow for a certain amount of time to be served. So I guess you need to decide which type of customer is more likely to visit the shop.

bogwalrus

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

Pre-made stuff appeals to take-away customers and people in a hurry. It's difficult to sell on quality so prices would have to be keen. Fresh made deli sandwiches take longer to prepare so they aren't great for takeaways, but nobody wants to sit down in a cafe and be served a packaged sandwich and eat-in customers allow for a certain amount of time to be served. So I guess you need to decide which type of customer is more likely to visit the shop.

Yeah your right. I think its more of a takeaway market i would be after as i think that's whats needed in the area.

Do you think stuff like fastway sandwiches, tayto's and a drink would be enough to get the local secondary school kids in?

I'm sure it would be. The cafe sit down thing is not really what I'm going for with this business.

jeni

Kids on lunch like wedges, sausy rolls ect,

bogwalrus

jeni wrote: »

Kids on lunch like wedges, sausy rolls ect,

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. Having a hot counter which would just stink out the shop and not really work with the whole "tourist shop" vibe.


What would you think could work to get these kids in for lunch other than the hot counter of bacon. There will be tayto's, coke and some chocolates sold like most shops.

TsuDhoNimh

bogwalrus wrote: »

What would you think could work to get these kids in for lunch other than the hot counter of bacon. There will be tayto's, coke and some chocolates sold like most shops.

It really depends on what other options they have available near by.

If they've no other option, anything will get a few of them in. If they've extensive options, you'd need to carve out whatever niche you think will be most profitable given the situation and go after that market (be it healthy, cheap, fast, etc.).

The only real answer anyone can give here is to do the market research. Figure out your estimated split between the tourist stream and the school stream (tourist figures will have peaks and troughs, so figure out how extreme they're likely to be), figure out what each of those markets want (and even more so what they want that isn't currently provided or that you can provide better) and then crunch the numbers on which of these options will give you the best bottom line.

bogwalrus

TsuDhoNimh wrote: »

It really depends on what other options they have available near by.

If they've no other option, anything will get a few of them in. If they've extensive options, you'd need to carve out whatever niche you think will be most profitable given the situation and go after that market (be it healthy, cheap, fast, etc.).

The only real answer anyone can give here is to do the market research. Figure out your estimated split between the tourist stream and the school stream (tourist figures will have peaks and troughs, so figure out how extreme they're likely to be), figure out what each of those markets want (and even more so what they want that isn't currently provided or that you can provide better) and then crunch the numbers on which of these options will give you the best bottom line.

Thanks for your reply.


Tourists will make the shop some great cash for around 5 months of the year. It will be the only visitor center with a small museum upstairs so i'm thinking it will draw in almost all the tourists off the buses.

For the rest of the year i will be relying on local business completely from the shop.

One section of the shop will be full of your typical tourist malark with loads of local produce (with very long shelf life).

The other section is the shop we have been discussing that can both serve as a pit stop for the tourists but also be attractive to the locals who might want to pick up something quick due to the shops great location.


One very big plus to this premises is that the rent is only €200PM and i am talking to the local enterprise board about covering all my rates due to the fact that i will be providing an information service to the tourists etc.

So in essence i would need to make a large amount to cover any high costs but would like to see some nice profits.

I have the head down anyway trying to figure out the best solution for this shop/visitor center.

sandin

If there's one thing that will get tourists and other visitors to stop is excellent toilets. - Advertise that and business will follow. Ensure they are kept in top notch condition.

As for the sandwich debate - go pre-pack. Otheriwse you are in a mine field of heath & safety.

Prepack sambos + prepack slices of cake from a local supplier + decent coffee & doing meal deal (sambo, coffee, choc bat = €5)

Seats/ bench outside for the smokers / dog lovers.

bogwalrus

sandin wrote: »

If there's one thing that will get tourists and other visitors to stop is excellent toilets. - Advertise that and business will follow. Ensure they are kept in top notch condition.

As for the sandwich debate - go pre-pack. Otheriwse you are in a mine field of heath & safety.

Prepack sambos + prepack slices of cake from a local supplier + decent coffee & doing meal deal (sambo, coffee, choc bat = €5)

Seats/ bench outside for the smokers / dog lovers.

Lol, Thats a very good point. There is one toilet in the premises and I have a feeling health and safety might want me to keep that for staff. It should'nt be too difficult to install another as the space is quite big upstairs.

I don't think i will have the space for any seating inside the premises but might be able to fit some sort of manhattan counter.

Lots of space outside for a few seats but this irish weather will mean no one will ever use them.

sandin

Another way of extra business is to team up with a local pub (it would need to be very close) and see if they would allow people bring a sandwich into the pub subject to tea/coffee/mineral being purchased in the pub - this would benefit both businesses (assuming the pub does not do food)

It worked very well in Blackrock, Dublin a while ago.

bogwalrus

sandin wrote: »

Another way of extra business is to team up with a local pub (it would need to be very close) and see if they would allow people bring a sandwich into the pub subject to tea/coffee/mineral being purchased in the pub - this would benefit both businesses (assuming the pub does not do food)

It worked very well in Blackrock, Dublin a while ago.

That's very interesting. I'm not sure if any of the local pubs would be suitable. Besides it really is only a pre made sandwich and i think most of my customers will be those that want to eat outside on a bench or in there car etc. The kids will most likely hang around in the little courtyard outside shop and just eat there.

I'm thinking i could do cheese toasties very easily without drawing the health and safety on me. Besides i have the equipment already to store/prepared all that sort of stuff. The school kids should go for stuff like that.

sky2424

I will never touch a pre made sandwich and actively avoid cafes/shops etc that sell them. Just gives me the vibe that the place doesnt care about its customers to sell the food fresh. I also dont like the idea of the plastic wrapping and find it very unappealing. Regardless of the fact the sandwich may have been made fresh that morning, I dont associate pre made sandwiches with being fresh.

igorbiscan

Totally agree with the above.I drive a lot for work and all my lunch stop-offs are places that make sandwichs fresh.I will always drive straight past places that don't. Almost all pre-packed sandwiches I've tried were muck.

bogwalrus

igorbiscan wrote: »

Totally agree with the above.I drive a lot for work and all my lunch stop-offs are places that make sandwichs fresh.I will always drive straight past places that don't. Almost all pre-packed sandwiches I've tried were muck.

What might be possible is getting the local bakery making the sandwiches for me in the morning. They are also a cafe and do a fair bit of food but they are a bit out of the way.

They have a good reputation and maybe that could work to my advantage.


They could pre make fresh tasty sandwiches to a high standard. Probably only keep them on the shelf for 2 days max and then get another batch in?

The key here would be to emphasise that the sandwiches are made locally and with fresh ingredients.

Would this make any difference?

bogwalrus

Hmmmm

I' thinking now that above idea might not be so good as technically they are competition and I have to differentiate.


I could run a small deli counter as I have a few different types of deli fridges and just advertise "quick fresh made sandwiches, wraps, roll's & Bagels for takaway"

Ingredients could be good quality and have the set up so i each sandwich only takes 2mins max to make.

If people then wanted hot chicken i could use good chicken that is just microwaved rather then having a hot deli counter that would stink the shop out.

Frank26

Way too many prepacks, and they're all rubbish. There is no such thing as a "fresh" prepack. Only fresh if made to order.

If the food is good people will come. Have a baker make your bread each day, and then you can have a quick sandwich assembly line set up. 2 min per and people are done. Who says that's not suited for takeaway? By the time the sandwich is made, they're ready to pay -- the sandwich is essentially made while they're in the queue.

bogwalrus

Frank26 wrote: »

Way too many prepacks, and they're all rubbish. There is no such thing as a "fresh" prepack. Only fresh if made to order.

If the food is good people will come. Have a baker make your bread each day, and then you can have a quick sandwich assembly line set up. 2 min per and people are done. Who says that's not suited for takeaway? By the time the sandwich is made, they're ready to pay -- the sandwich is essentially made while they're in the queue.

Hi Frank26,

You spot on with your above statement that is why i have decided to look seriously at subway franchise.

Gloomtastic!

One UK franchise that has never made it over here is Pret a Manger. It was bought by McDonalds a good few years ago.

They sell top quality pre-made sandwiches - all made in store in the mornings by the staff. All the packaging is the same for all the sandwiches but because the guys at the counter made them that morning they know exactly what each one is.

Frank26

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

One UK franchise that has never made it over here is Pret a Manger. It was bought by McDonalds a good few years ago.

They sell top quality pre-made sandwiches - all made in store in the mornings by the staff. All the packaging is the same for all the sandwiches but because the guys at the counter made them that morning they know exactly what each one is.

With all due respect I don't think there is such a thing as a "top quality pre-made sandwich." They are by definition an oxymoron.

The minute a sandwich is made, it is deteriorating. The bread is getting soggy on the inside, drying out on the outside, lettuce losing its crunch, tomatoes losing their freshness, etc.

What I don't understand is, what is the facination of a pre-made sandwich? Why does a sandwich have to be pre-made at all? Why would you even want to have a pre-made sandwich? With just a slight bit of effort, and an efficient set-up, it doesn't take almost any longer to have a sandwich made to the customer's order while they queue, so that they are at the register ready to pay by the time it is made.

To me it is disrespectful to the food and the patron to try and fob pre-made sandwiches.

Frank26

bogwalrus wrote: »

Hi Frank26,

You spot on with your above statement that is why i have decided to look seriously at subway franchise.

I like the concept, but why do you have to go with a subway franchise? It is a good idea, messed up with crap quality ingredients, and with exorbitant franchise fees.

I think if you have a good location, and have a clean pleasing set-up, that you could do a subway-like concept, but swap in better ingredients and a bit of personal care/love. You'd have a better product, happier customers, and you wouldn't be forwarding all those franchise fees back up to the mother company.

But good luck to you! I like what you're doing

Gloomtastic!

Frank26 wrote: »

With all due respect I don't think there is such a thing as a "top quality pre-made sandwich." They are by definition an oxymoron.

The minute a sandwich is made, it is deteriorating. The bread is getting soggy on the inside, drying out on the outside, lettuce losing its crunch, tomatoes losing their freshness, etc.

What I don't understand is, what is the facination of a pre-made sandwich? Why does a sandwich have to be pre-made at all? Why would you even want to have a pre-made sandwich? With just a slight bit of effort, and an efficient set-up, it doesn't take almost any longer to have a sandwich made to the customer's order while they queue, so that they are at the register ready to pay by the time it is made.

To me it is disrespectful to the food and the patron to try and fob pre-made sandwiches.

With all due respect, unless you have eaten there, then you don't know what I'm talking about.

Have you eaten there?

DubTony

Interesting topic. Here's my opinion. Pre-made sandwiches and freshly made ones are poles apart. But not necessarily for quality reasons. From a business point of view, you need to have strong footfall for a deli, unless it's going to be the only one in town and you can use it to drive footfall.
Investment in serveover fridges, hot counters, bowls dishes can be a lot. And that's just the beginning. At least 2 sinks, and another for washing hands, constant hot water, tiling or some suitable washable surface on all walls and floor in the area (even the ceiling tiles have to be of a certain type and standard) extractor fans if you're doing hot food, and an oven (you need to cook / heat that stuff), cleaning supplies, wasted food, storage fridge(s), a licence from the HSE, and somebody or bodies to man the deli all day. You'll need a qualified person, fully trained in HACCP procedures, record keeping and who hopefully knows how to make a nice sandwich. Then there's portion control, food waste control, refuse charges (you're not supposed to put that stuff into your general waste bin) water charges (in and out), laundry charges (HSE likes to see that you're outsourcing the cleaning of deli uniforms and aprons), electricity costs for all that equipment. That decent deli person will cost at least €25k a year, so if your deli returns 35% after waste, you'll need to turn over 1500 a week just to pay the wages, unless of course the deli pulls in enough people to significantly increase sales in the rest of the store. And then of course there's the day your deli person rings in sick, or just doesn't turn up. (I've got lots of those tee-shirts).

My suggestion is to get pre-packed sandwiches to start. If there's a demand for hot food, buy some wrapped pre cooked stuff and put a good microwave beside the fridge.

You'll know soon enough if there is indeed enough business to justify the expense of a deli.