3 weeks training schedule for sub 4 marathon

Kurt Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

You're like our very own little lab rat.

More like a mole, Dory. I'll get them thinking about swim benefits. Soon, they'll be on their bikes. Next thing you know... shhhh!;)

Dory Dory

Kurt Godel wrote: »

More like a mole, Dory. I'll get them thinking about swim benefits. Soon, they'll be on their bikes. Next thing you know... shhhh!;)

You never know....could happen!! With all the people jumping ship on the tri logs, we've plenty of real estate over there to offer!! (I'm even wondering if I stay over there for my Boston training....??)

Kurt Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

You never know....could happen!! With all the people jumping ship on the tri logs, we've plenty of real estate over there to offer!! (I'm even wondering if I stay over there for my Boston training....??)

Without starting a civil war, I think the general advice is of a higher standard over there. It's been fun here (and some good advice from on this log from posters I've missed), but things tend to get swamped or watered down. That's just my opinion, plenty of good stuff about the A/R forum too.

I know I'll be back to my real log and focussing on a winter training plan once this little fun run is over. I'd say Tri forum will pick up once training proper starts for the new season, and people have specific goals. A pity it only got the green light as the season was ending.

Dory Dory

How'd you say that math exam went for you??

Kurt Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

How'd you say that math exam went for you??

??? Did I make a basic arithmetic error somewhere? (Usually happens when you've been focussed on Group Theory and Analysis and Other Lofty Pursuits:D)

Dory Dory

Kurt Godel wrote: »

??? Did I make a basic arithmetic error somewhere? (Usually happens when you've been focussed on Group Theory and Analysis and Other Lofty Pursuits:D)

No. That was my best effort at a bait and switch to avoid civil war. :)

Kurt Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

No. That was my best effort at a bait and switch to avoid civil war. :)

Haha:D Always the peacemaker, fair play Dory:D

I'd say I got around 90%, give or take. Should be good for the overall module distinction. Thats the good thing about Math exams, you have a fair idea if you get the right answer or not. Next up, Number theory and mathematical logic, and Applications of probability. 20 years after first hearing about him, I'm finally studying the work of my namesake, whoo-hoo!

Dory Dory

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Haha:D Always the peacemaker, fair play Dory:D

I'd say I got around 90%, give or take. Should be good for the overall module distinction. Thats the good thing about Math exams, you have a fair idea if you get the right answer or not. Next up, Number theory and mathematical logic, and Applications of probability. 20 years after first hearing about him, I'm finally studying the work of my namesake, whoo-hoo!

Well done then!! (;), )

TRR

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Without starting a civil war, I think the general advice is of a higher standard over there. It's been fun here (and some good advice from on this log from posters I've missed), but things tend to get swamped or watered down. That's just my opinion, plenty of good stuff about the A/R forum too.
.

Boooooooooooooooooooooo

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Next up, Number theory and mathematical logic, and Applications of probability.

Based on you comment above you're fecked. You're theory regards quality of advice is wrong, contains no logic and in all probability is the result of an aneurism

theboyblunder

TRR wrote: »

Boooooooooooooooooooooo

+1 id like to upgrade TRRs boo to a chorus of boos

If you call advice on how to empty your bank account and wear far too much lycra good advice, then fair enough .

Solobally8

So this is where you've gone Thought you had left us over on the dark side. Best of luck with your experiment.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Good on ye, just came across this best of luck with it P.

Dory Dory

How's taper madness going for you?

Oryx

Kurt is too tough for wimpy things like tapering.

BeepBeep67

There's too much talk and not enough running on this thread.....

...... opps forgot you were coming from the Tri forum

Dory Dory

Has our lab rat escaped from his cage???

Kurt Godel

Oryx wrote: »

Kurt is too tough for wimpy things like tapering.

Too tough for training these days.

Nothing done last few days, was meant to do a LSR in the hills Sat, got word it was cancelled just before heading off to carpool. Sunday my good lady wife decided to grab the early morning slot for her run (she's started running, I can hardly complain after years of my own jogging), and visitors for the rest of the day put a hold on any running. Busy today, which means its too late to squeeze the 3.5 hr LSR into the schedule. I'll do a 13 miler tomorrow and call it a day. I've been very busy with work, don't have time at the moment to follow any structure. What will be, will be, on the day.

Kurt Godel

13.1 in 1:53. This was a jogging pace, felt easy all the way around. Met up with PN for 4 miles, company really makes the time fly. Legs etc felt good, and I was almost tempted to make it to 20 or so- but what would be the point? That ship has sailed, there's nothing more I can do at this stage.

I'll get around the course no bother. I'm a little disappointed I missed those last few training days, as it renders useless this half-hearted "experiment". Sub 4 should be easy enough- 3:45 would be a better target. But this isn't about targets, just about getting a 26 mile LSR in.

Date|Scheduled (miles)|Comment
Wed 10th|18|19.2 ran, in about 3:10. Tough for the last two miles, no gels or water taken. Cool, damp, trail|
Thurs 11th|Cross/Easy|1,250m swim. I was very achy and stiff getting up this morning, the swim has helped massively. Non-impact, flush the muscles.|
Fri 12th|5 easy|Very stiff before, this run was a good leg loosener, feeling a lot better now.|
Sat 13th|5 easy/Cross|9@ 8:18 pace, grass, felt good.|
Sun 14th|13 easy|12 easy, with 3 faster sections. Circa 1:55 |
Mon 15th|Cross|3.5 easy|
Tues 16th|8 steady|8@ 7:44 pace, finished strong.|
Wed 17th|6 steady|2 steady, 4@decent clip, 4 more steady|
Thurs 18th|Cross|2,000m swim, steady pace|
Fri 19th|18 lsr||
Sat 20th|5 easy/Cross||
Sun 21nd|6 easy||
Mon 22nd|6 easy||
Tues 23rd|13 steady/easy|13.1 @ 8:41 pace|
Wed 24th|5 easy/Cross||
Thurs 25th|8 steady||
Fri 26th|5 easy/Cross||
Sat 27th|Cross||
Sun 28th|Cross||
Mon 29th|Marathon||

Kurt Godel

2,000m swim

Into the pool for a tough steady 1,000m straight; then 50xFC concentrating on form, 50xeasy, for 500m; then 500m easy.


Date|Scheduled (miles)|Comment
Wed 10th|18|19.2 ran, in about 3:10. Tough for the last two miles, no gels or water taken. Cool, damp, trail|
Thurs 11th|Cross/Easy|1,250m swim. I was very achy and stiff getting up this morning, the swim has helped massively. Non-impact, flush the muscles.|
Fri 12th|5 easy|Very stiff before, this run was a good leg loosener, feeling a lot better now.|
Sat 13th|5 easy/Cross|9@ 8:18 pace, grass, felt good.|
Sun 14th|13 easy|12 easy, with 3 faster sections. Circa 1:55 |
Mon 15th|Cross|3.5 easy|
Tues 16th|8 steady|8@ 7:44 pace, finished strong.|
Wed 17th|6 steady|2 steady, 4@decent clip, 4 more steady|
Thurs 18th|Cross|2,000m swim, steady pace|
Fri 19th|18 lsr||
Sat 20th|5 easy/Cross||
Sun 21nd|6 easy||
Mon 22nd|6 easy||
Tues 23rd|13 steady/easy|13.1 @ 8:41 pace|
Wed 24th|5 easy/Cross|2km swim|
Thurs 25th|8 steady||
Fri 26th|5 easy/Cross||
Sat 27th|Cross||
Sun 28th|Cross||
Mon 29th|Marathon||

Kurt Godel

One of the DM pacers has dropped out, so a bit of juggling means I'll be covering 4:15 with three others. I was down as emergency sub, and always knew I might be needed, so that'll be my time for the marathon. There's no point in keeping this log open any more, it'll just be easy stuff till the race.

So, what (if any) purpose has this log served? Very little, if truth be told. It was predicated on an outcome following a set schedule, and I missed the long run in the middle of this schedule, and the outcome is now a set slow time. Obviously the proof will be in the pudding, but I'm confident that I can plod around at 4:15 pace for 26 miles. The initial 19 miler told me that my glyco depletion (wall) starts at 17 miles or so, and thats without any long runs previous. Any of the middle distance runs I did since have felt progressively easier. I'll fuel well on the day, and this will stave off any glyco worries until after 20/22 miles, but in any case my body is well able to burn fat at a slow pace. I ran half the WW last year less trained than now, made sure I had plenty of fuel, and never bonked. Get the fuel right and you can plod all day.

The one sort of real reason for doing this log (since it's suspiciously like an exercise in vanity), was to show that there's more than one way to run a marathon. Amid all the- often good, sage, well-meant advice- the only person who will get you through a marathon is you. Its just another distance, shouldn't be venerated quite as much as it is, and if someone has had an injury, or skipped a few sessions, or not got all the long runs in; they can more than likely still complete the distance. It might hurt a bit more, it might not beat your pb, but if you think you can do it, get out there and do it. My easiest marathon ever was my first, 3:49 off one 15mile LSR, and a max milage of 40 one week. Hardest ever were the two I bonked while trying to get sub 3- loads of 18-20milers in training, 70 mile max weeks, all the ingredients... You never know what'll happen on the day.

Looking forward to meeting anyone doing 4:15, there's a book opened on how many of you will have to carry me over the last 6 miles, but I don't think it'll quite come to that. Should be a fun day all round:)

Krusty_Clown

A bit of an anti-climatic end to the experiment, but I reckon you'll get more out of pacing the 4:15 then you would have out of running a 4 hour marathon (an extra 15 minutes on your feet, if nothing else!).

I agree on the subject of it being just another distance, but from my perspective, if someone is unprepared and under-trained to the point where they are not going to enjoy the experience, potentially put themselves at risk of injury, and under-performance, why encourage them to enter any race, regardless of distance? At the risk of sounding a little like a grumpy Roy Keane, why celebrate failure? This forum is littered with runners who have trained hard and have missed out on their goals. They're far more deserving of the encouragement. To those others who have failed to prepare? Prepare to fail (either Roy Keane or Mystery Men. I can't remember which!). But more seriously, i can't see why telling someone to forget this marathon and train properly for the next marathon is the wrong course of action.

Kurt Godel

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I agree on the subject of it being just another distance, but from my perspective, if someone is unprepared and under-trained to the point where they are not going to enjoy the experience, potentially put themselves at risk of injury, and under-performance, why encourage them to enter any race, regardless of distance? At the risk of sounding a little like a grumpy Roy Keane, why celebrate failure? This forum is littered with runners who have trained hard and have missed out on their goals. They're far more deserving of the encouragement. To those others who have failed to prepare? Prepare to fail (either Roy Keane or Mystery Men. I can't remember which!). But more seriously, i can't see why telling someone to forget this marathon and train properly for the next marathon is the wrong course of action.

There's a world of difference between someone putting in a dedicated 18-week training plan to hit a PB, and someone completing a sub-par marathon at jogging pace. The first rightly gets celebrated for their efforts, the second gets celebrated by default of the marathon distance (granted those applauding might not be from the same groups). To be honest with you, I don't really have interest the latter bunch too much; I stand on the sidelines clapping my hands as people jog by in distress, at 5hr+ pace, but don't really know why I'm doing so. I guess what they are doing is better than sitting in a pub all day, but thats no yardstick for celebration. The majority of them seem content to shuffle by slowly, and they are happy afterwards because they've finished the distance- "did" the marathon.

They're untrained and underprepared anyway, not willing to put in the effort, as evidenced by their finish times, so why tell them to forget this marathon, and train properly for another? They haven't lost the weight, put in the training, maintained good diet- what difference will it make if they have missed a LSR (I've seen 14k's being called LSR's!) or missed a few weeks training, in the long run it doesn't matter to their goal, which is just to get around. If they're happy to get around in pain, fair enough, let 'em on.

(I'll feck off back to the Tri forum once DM is over;))

Oryx

Well, I hope not to see you on the day, so. Though I will miss the promised obscenities.

Dory Dory

From my perspective, I clap for the 5+ marathoners because they aren't afraid to be measured against others - they aren't afraid to be in the bottom x%. At least that's how my competitive mind rationalizes their willingness to put themselves out there. Bless their hearts....

Pacing Mule

Kurt Godel wrote: »

There's a world of difference between someone putting in a dedicated 18-week training plan to hit a PB, and someone completing a sub-par marathon at jogging pace. The first rightly gets celebrated for their efforts, the second gets celebrated by default of the marathon distance (granted those applauding might not be from the same groups). To be honest with you, I don't really have interest the latter bunch too much; I stand on the sidelines clapping my hands as people jog by in distress, at 5hr+ pace, but don't really know why I'm doing so. I guess what they are doing is better than sitting in a pub all day, but thats no yardstick for celebration. The majority of them seem content to shuffle by slowly, and they are happy afterwards because they've finished the distance- "did" the marathon.

They're untrained and underprepared anyway, not willing to put in the effort, as evidenced by their finish times, so why tell them to forget this marathon, and train properly for another? They haven't lost the weight, put in the training, maintained good diet- what difference will it make if they have missed a LSR (I've seen 14k's being called LSR's!) or missed a few weeks training, in the long run it doesn't matter to their goal, which is just to get around. If they're happy to get around in pain, fair enough, let 'em on.

(I'll feck off back to the Tri forum once DM is over;))

In defence of those 5 hour plodders since I'm one of them and that bit in bold has really pissed me off...

To say we're not willing to put in the effort is insulting. I'm gong to speak personally now as that's all I can do. I have put in a huge effort to get to a 5 hour + marathon stage (if we could park aside for the moment the injury you may remember as it's not relevant to the point I'm making) I started running in January - I couldn't run for a minute at a time I was so unfit. I've dragged my fat arse from that fitness level to where I am now. I've eaten well, lost 2.5 stone along the way and for me that's a perfectly reasonable yardstick for celebration based on from where I'm coming from.

Moving onto next year - If I come back but sit on my laurels and knock out another 5+ hours race whilst not losing any more weight then I will happily say I am deserving of your comment. I'd be hoping to continue my progress and get myself into the realms of truly pushing myself to aim for a better time and a further improved fitness level.

I can understand where the achievements of people like me don't impress those at a certain level (and I don't mean to sound like I am shouting elitest or anything like it) because it is another world away from the effort and commitment made to hit a 3.30 or 4 which does require a lot more preparation. But that doesn't mean for a second that those coming off the couch aren't putting in any effort.

Kurt Godel

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

In defence of those 5 hour plodders since I'm one of them and that bit in bold has really pissed me off...

To say we're not willing to put in the effort is insulting. I'm gong to speak personally now as that's all I can do. I have put in a huge effort to get to a 5 hour + marathon stage (if we could park aside for the moment the injury you may remember as it's not relevant to the point I'm making) I started running in January - I couldn't run for a minute at a time I was so unfit. I've dragged my fat arse from that fitness level to where I am now. I've eaten well, lost 2.5 stone along the way and for me that's a perfectly reasonable yardstick for celebration based on from where I'm coming from.

Moving onto next year - If I come back but sit on my laurels and knock out another 5+ hours race whilst not losing any more weight then I will happily say I am deserving of your comment. I'd be hoping to continue my progress and get myself into the realms of truly pushing myself to aim for a better time and a further improved fitness level.

I can understand where the achievements of people like me don't impress those at a certain level (and I don't mean to sound like I am shouting elitest or anything like it) because it is another world away from the effort and commitment made to hit a 3.30 or 4 which does require a lot more preparation. But that doesn't mean for a second that those coming off the couch aren't putting in any effort.

Can you show me where I got inside your head and started dissing you? To point out the obvious, if you're happy doing what you're doing, and just want to get around the DM, or any other race; good for you, that's got nothing to do with me, or my opinions. I was being elitist, because once you start measuring times or performances one against the other, (and I'm measuring my marathon efforts against those 5hr+ guys I see on the course), you end up with a hierarchy of achievement, and that's by nature elitist. I'm the fat lazy jogger to some of my faster mates.

I never forced you to read this or take insult. There's a thread about bowing down to fat girl joggers because they're the real hero's, go with that if it floats your boat.

Pacing Mule

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Can you show me where I got inside your head and started dissing you? To point out the obvious, if you're happy doing what you're doing, and just want to get around the DM, or any other race; good for you, that's got nothing to do with me, or my opinions. I was being elitist, because once you start measuring times or performances one against the other, (and I'm measuring my marathon efforts against those 5hr+ guys I see on the course), you end up with a hierarchy of achievement, and that's by nature elitist. I'm the fat lazy jogger to some of my faster mates.

I never forced you to read this or take insult. There's a thread about bowing down to fat girl joggers because they're the real hero's, go with that if it floats your boat.

Absolutely - I highlighted it in bold in my response but to point it out again ...

Kurt Godel wrote: »

not willing to put in the effort, as evidenced by their finish times,

Right there at that point you got into my head and dissed the effort I and plenty of other 5 hour + finishers have made to get there.

Kurt Godel

Oryx wrote: »

Well, I hope not to see you on the day, so. Though I will miss the promised obscenities.

Our ships will cross no doubt during some Tri's next year (probably because chicks start in earlier waves:p;)), plenty of time for obscenity-hurling. Go out and enjoy this one, soak up the atmosphere, easy first half so you're passing targets in the second. You deserve a race where you're smiling during as well as after.

Dory Dory wrote: »

From my perspective, I clap for the 5+ marathoners because they aren't afraid to be measured against others - they aren't afraid to be in the bottom x%. At least that's how my competitive mind rationalizes their willingness to put themselves out there. Bless their hearts....

I tend to be in awe of the leaders, furiously applauding the chasers, knowingly clapping those with times similar to my own, shouting "You can do it" to the next following, and move on from there. I've seen plenty of stoic-faced families not take their hands out of their pockets for the whole race, until Uncle Jimmy plods by, and then its screaming, whoops, banners, pats on the back, until he waddles out of sight. Then thats the spectating done with.

But yes, bless their little hearts...:D

Krusty_Clown

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I
To say we're not willing to put in the effort is insulting. I'm gong to speak personally now as that's all I can do. I have put in a huge effort to get to a 5 hour + marathon stage (if we could park aside for the moment the injury you may remember as it's not relevant to the point I'm making) I started running in January - I couldn't run for a minute at a time I was so unfit. I've dragged my fat arse from that fitness level to where I am now. I've eaten well, lost 2.5 stone along the way and for me that's a perfectly reasonable yardstick for celebration based on from where I'm coming from.

Hi Pageant Messiah, you've got to stop taking this stuff personally. It's not aimed at you. If someone makes a comment about 5+ hour runners, they are illustrating a point rather than trying to run down 5+ hour runners (though Kurt did generalize a little). It's the same thing as 3 hour runners illustrating a point using four hour runners as an example. And the same as 2:30 runners, making a point about three hour runners. And 2:15 runners talking about the training habits of 2:30 runners and it goes on.

By the way, if I had started running in January, and suffered the same injury as you, I too would be looking at a 5+ hour marathon. I reckon in the same situation, my better half would have been looking at a six hour marathon. But neither of us ran a marathon until we had a couple of years of running (10ks and 1/2 marathons) under our respective belts. So before holding up the banner for 5+ hour marathon runners, you've got to ask yourself - are you doing the right thing? Are you really a 5+ hour runner, or are you actually an under-prepared four hour runner?

Kurt Godel

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Absolutely - I highlighted it in bold in my response but to point it out again ...



Right there at that point you got into my head and dissed the effort I and plenty of other 5 hour + finishers have made to get there.

Fine- I'm not willing to celebrate 5hr+ marathons, and I don't think much of the training efforts that have gone into them. That's my educated opinion. I'm not asking you to subscribe to this point of view, you can view your achievements as you like.