British PM: Britain is "still the greatest country on earth"

karma_

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Actually, i always avoid the "Why are we so ****" threads. I hate self pity.



Labour say exactly the same sort of thing. In fact, most the things the British are supposedly guilty of were carried out whilst a (supposed) labour government was in power.

It's a PM for christ sake. Have you seen Enda's interview in Time magazine? Did you ever listen to any of the **** Bertie went on about. This was supposed to be the wealthiest country in the world ffs. All politicians do it.

Take it in the same way you would when you hear a Man U or Liverpool fan going on about being "The Greatest", with a sizeable pinch of salt.

Well Fred, it's like this, I'm in the North, so anything a Tory gobshíte says is kind of relevant to me. I don't disagree with you on Labour being today's 'ToryLite' but the Tories still, and always have taken the biscuit.

karma_

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Does this mean Ireland is Little Britain;)

Finally!! A Joke for a Joke.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Err, the British army is no longer in Iraq, that's quite a big change.

As I stated earlier, the other missions the British army is on are sanctioned by the UN. As a UN security member it is only fitting that Britain puts its money where its mouth is and if it votes in favour of military intervention then it contributes accordingly.

Ah the UN Security Council?...5 nuclear powers pushing their weight around the world.
Into Kuwait like a flash but allowed appalling genocide in Rwanda, and a litany of similar self interested actions.
Another 'Great' organisation.:rolleyes:

partyguinness

TBH...why are some people so exercised about a speech at a Tory party conference?

Save your energy for fixing this country and debating with the politicians that knock on your door next election.

Happyman42

partyguinness wrote: »

TBH...why are some people so exercised about a speech at a Tory party conference?

Not half as excercised as some are getting about people 'daring' to criticise Great Britian. :D

9959

When I last looked, Seanchai's opening Brit-bashing rant received 19 Thanks, including one from the gloriously named Sir Pompous Righteousness.
The concise reply from Tox56 received 96 Thanks, including one from the gloriously named Sir Pompous Righteousness.
This gives me hope.
Thanks 'Boardies'.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Ah the UN Security Council?...5 nuclear powers pushing their weight around the world.
Into Kuwait like a flash but allowed appalling genocide in Rwanda, and a litany of similar self interested actions.
Another 'Great' organisation.:rolleyes:

10 nations, not all nuclear powers.

Such as Ireland in 2001, when they voted unanimously to create ISAF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1386

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

And tell us how foreign policy has demonstrably changed?

lol!? Are you for real? You claimed that the British public didn't make their master pay at the polls yet they voted out the incumbent government. Do you expect the British public to immediately invent a new party with an alternative foreign policy and then vote it into power? And what pray tell would you like Britain to change about its foreign policy so I can begin putting the party together?

Foreign Policy for every country will first and foremost always be about protecting that country's interests abroad. It is the same for every nation on earth. Some countries obviously wont like that but that is for the international community and the UN to resolve. Iraq of ofc was a terrible episode but a huge amount of the British public were against it, Blair is detested in this country now and Britain no longer has any significant presence in Iraq.

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

Ah the UN Security Council?...5 nuclear powers pushing their weight around the world.
Into Kuwait like a flash but allowed appalling genocide in Rwanda, and a litany of similar self interested actions.
Another 'Great' organisation.:rolleyes:

Well if you don't like then get off your arse and try and change it instead of whining on a forum. Quick to criticise but do feck all to try and change anything... curse of so many countries. It's why Ireland has and is a country with a majority of idiots as politicians when there are lots of intelligent people in the country able to do a much better job but they cant be arsed... they would rather whine about it.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

10 nations, not all nuclear powers.

Such as Ireland in 2001, when they voted unanimously to create ISAF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1386

15 members actually, 5 of whom are 'permanent members' and are nuclear powers, UK, France, China, Russia, and the US. The have (and frequently use) their power to veto any resolution). :rolleyes:
The US are fond of vetoing any resolutions critical of Israel, curiously.:rolleyes:

Happyman42

Playboy wrote: »

Well if you don't like then get off your arse and try and change it instead of whining on a forum. Quick to criticise but do feck all to try and change anything... curse of so many countries. It's why Ireland has and is a country with a majority of idiots as politicians when there are lots of intelligent people in the country able to do a much better job but they cant be arsed... they would rather whine about it.

:rolleyes::rolleyes: how do you know what I do?

billybudd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Maybe if you didn't keep jumping on an thread that critisices Britain and the British you wouldn't get labelled anti British.

As for the OP, well that's a different story isn't it.

Difference between Irish and British people? Irish people showed great remorse and Sadness when the IRA under the guise of United Ireland freedom fighters killed Innocent people, a good percentage of British people are proud of their past and present of killing innocent people.

I would not defend the Irish government in their support of attrocities committed against so called rougue nations who just happen to have something more powerful countries want.

phoenix999

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

[/B]

Aahh c'mere now K-9. I have nothing against Britain or British people (I'd say I have more British friends than all other foreign countries combined, my sister is married to an English chap, and all my nephews are English), but to call the fire-bombing of Dresden, (one of the most vindictive, ugly, war-crimes of modern times) an "Air-Raid" is a bit of a stretch, no?





Must say, and I'm open to correction on this, as my Irish history isn't great, but I was pretty sure that the torching of The Public Records Office, was a childish act of petulant vandalism carried out by Rory O'Connor and his men when they knew they'd been defeated.

Yes the Brits forced Collins hand to take the Four Courts. But we can thank the IRA crew for making the destruction complete by placing mines all over the building. The records burned for three days.

partyguinness

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just seems to be fashionable at the moment.

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes: how do you know what I do?

It's quite obvious from the lack of intelligence in your responses that you aren't exactly a force for positive change anywhere... if you are then god help us

Tox56

billybudd wrote: »

Difference between Irish and British people? Irish people showed great remorse and Sadness when the IRA under the guise of United Ireland freedom fighters killed Innocent people, a good percentage of British people are proud of their past and present of killing innocent people.

I would not defend the Irish government in their support of attrocities committed against so called rougue nations who just happen to have something more powerful countries want.

Are you just plucking facts out of the air? "A Good percentage of British people", what exactly are you basing that on?

I'm sure you could find plenty of Irish people who support what the IRA did, and I was about to say you could find plenty of British people who are "proud of their past and present of killing innocent people", but I really don't think you could.

Happyman42

Playboy wrote: »

It's quite obvious from the lack of intelligence in your responses that you aren't exactly a force for positive change anywhere... if you are then god help us

Funny that. Your failure to deal with the issues raised by the posters on this thread and your anal attempts to bludgeon the right to an opinion to death directly affects my opinion of your IQ too. Carry on 'til you are carried off. :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

billybudd wrote: »

Difference between Irish and British people? Irish people showed great remorse and Sadness when the IRA under the guise of United Ireland freedom fighters killed Innocent people, a good percentage of British people are proud of their past and present of killing innocent people.

I would not defend the Irish government in their support of attrocities committed against so called rougue nations who just happen to have something more powerful countries want.

Could you point me to where British people are proud of the present killing of innocent people?

billybudd

Tox56 wrote: »

Are you just plucking facts out of the air? "A Good percentage of British people", what exactly are you basing that on?

I'm sure you could find plenty of Irish people who support what the IRA did, and I was about to say you could find plenty of British people who are "proud of their past and present of killing innocent people", but I really don't think you could.

Based on current affairs and events, yes i am comfortable with what i stated.

They obviously would not consider innocent people being killed, rather an act of war.

billybudd

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/britons-are-prouder-of-their-history-nhs-and-army-than-of-the-royals

Fratton Fred

billybudd wrote: »

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/britons-are-prouder-of-their-history-nhs-and-army-than-of-the-royals

and?

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

Funny that. Your failure to deal with the issues raised by the posters on this thread and your anal attempts to bludgeon the right to an opinion to death directly affects my opinion of your IQ too. Carry on 'til you are carried off. :rolleyes:

What opinions? I don't see opinions... all I see is a small group of people with an anti Britain agenda taking an opportunity to dredge up history in order to have a pop... Thankfully I see a far bigger group of people telling them to get over themselves

9959

Happyman42 wrote: »

15 members actually, 5 of whom are 'permanent members' and are nuclear powers, UK, France, China, Russia, and the US. The have (and frequently use) their power to veto any resolution). :rolleyes:
The US are fond of vetoing any resolutions critical of Israel, curiously.:rolleyes:

Great. Co-opt the Palestinian cause, and hey presto, your Brit-bashing bile might garner more support.
Aren't you the cute hoor all the same.

Happyman42

9959 wrote: »

Great. Co-opt the Palestinian cause, and hey presto, your Brit-bashing bile might garner more support.
Aren't you the cute hoor all the same.

You won't find any comment on these boarads by me on the Israeli/Palestinian issue, so you couldn't have any idea what my opinion on it is. Could you? Yet you draw a conclusion and bash me with it. :rolleyes: Hilarious.

The US have vetoed 32 resolutions critical of Israel, more than all the vetos used by the other nations.
Now, the supposedly, equal fellow members where concerned enough and affected enough to issue a resolution, but one member state with a known vested interest, vetoed 32 of them???? And you try and tell me that this is a credible organisation interested in world peace?

It is also worth noting in reference to the UN that the 5 permanent members are also the 5 top arms exporters of the world. :rolleyes:

ejmaztec

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Does this mean Ireland is Little Britain;)

With the neighbours I've got, I'm thinking Royston Vasey.:eek:

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

You won't find any comment on these boarads by me on the Israeli/Palestinian issue, so you couldn't have any idea what my opinion on it is. Could you? Yet you draw a conclusion and bash me with it. :rolleyes: Hilarious.

The US have vetoed 32 resolutions critical of Israel, more than all the vetos used by the other nations.
Now, the supposedly, equal fellow members where concerned enough and affected enough to issue a resolution, but one member state with a known vested interest, vetoed 32 of them???? And you try and tell me that this is a credible organisation interested in world peace?

It is also worth noting in reference to the UN that the 5 permanent members are also the 5 top arms exporters of the world. :rolleyes:

So whats the alternative to the UN that you propose that the most powerful countries in the world would agree to and would prevent situations like Syria and Palestine occuring?

Nodin

gallag wrote: »

Empire building is not a reason to hate a modern evolved nation, the only difference between say gb and Ireland was ability. These were barbaric times, if Ireland had the ability to kick britains ass and rule the seas and a good chunk of the globe they would have done so. Hating gb for its empire building days is like hating cave men for being rapists. Move by it and judge the u.k as it is today, still not perfect, or even the best, but at heart a evolved, modern, open and free country that is home to many, even more Irish then there is in Ireland.

The problem isn't so much people hating them for what they did, but people thinking what they did is/was something to be proud of.

Happyman42

Playboy wrote: »

So whats the alternative to the UN that you propose that the most powerful countries in the world would agree to and would prevent situations like Syria and Palestine occuring?

Oh! Have they done something about Syria...I must turn the XFactor repeat off and switch on the news!

ejmaztec

Happyman42 wrote: »

Oh! Have they done something about Syria...I must turn the XFactor repeat off and switch on the news!

No, the auld vetoes are still working well, but at least the Turks are having a bit of a go.

9959

Happyman42 wrote: »

You won't find any comment on these boarads by me on the Israeli/Palestinian issue, so you couldn't have any idea what my opinion on it is. Could you? Yet you draw a conclusion and bash me with it. :rolleyes: Hilarious.

The US have vetoed 32 resolutions critical of Israel, more than all the vetos used by the other nations.
Now, the supposedly, equal fellow members where concerned enough and affected enough to issue a resolution, but one member state with a known vested interest, vetoed 32 of them???? And you try and tell me that this is a credible organisation interested in world peace?

It is also worth noting in reference to the UN that the 5 permanent members are also the 5 top arms exporters of the world. :rolleyes:

Oh, got you wrong.
So you are in favour of the US vetoing resolutions critical of Israel and that's why you brought Israel into the debate, or perhaps you're not in favour and you just thought you'd give Israel a gratuitous name check.
Curiouser and curiouser.

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

Oh! Have they done something about Syria...I must turn the XFactor repeat off and switch on the news!

Well thats the point isnt it? The US vetoes when its in its interests and China/Russia will veto when its in their interests. Thats world politics unfortunately... The powerful countries arent going to do what their told by less powerful countries .. why would they?

K-9

Nodin wrote: »

The problem isn't so much people hating them for what they did, but people thinking what they did is/was something to be proud of.

You'll get that on all sides of the conflict and nationalism everywhere, the problem is when some people only see the enemies failings, not their own.

billybudd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and?

To be honest FF i dont know why you would defend a military and government who caused so much innocent suffering in lands they had no business being in. maybe its from being from an area with a huge military base, thats assuming you are from there.

poeticseraphim

Cameron loves Britain all right ...... he will be loving her all night long soon....but against her will


He has started to privatise the NHS beyond recognition and the Brits mostly hate him.


Nothing wrong with patriotism.....but in his case it is false


Yep they did some awful things in the past and they enjoyed them at the time secretly they still do .....or refuse to acknowledge them ....but hey thats true of many groups.....white people ..men..the taliban..etc


I would not worry about Cameron OP the Brits that him more than you seem to and the British are starting to tiptoe for the first time into austerity.

To them Britain is the best nation ever....your own mother is the best to you. Going on bashing them like you did in your first post is very mean spirited.

So have a heart OP and some respect of other nations.


Ironically you demonstrate an attitude that embarrasses this nation.You would swear some Irish people thought the British were a nation of genocidal rapists. They don't as a nation hold the same values as a nation that they did long ago. They have also abolished slavery didn't you here? And they have given women the vote! Both our countries are still a bit iffy about gay marriage...but who knows maybe one day we will give human rights enough of a go that we actually have the right to be so smug!


What is wrong with a modern day leader expressing love for a nation ?

Have you heard Irish politicians talk Ireland up????

poeticseraphim

All countries have failings.....the British govt did terrible things to British people for centuries ... ..if there had been democracy it is likely a lot of the darker history would not have happened

But that does not mean they can't be proud to be British.....

All nations have something to be proud of....for Britain...Darwin.....Emily Pankhurst....Shakespeare...


The truth is the tories have this attitude of non apology to other countries...Labour and the Lib dems have a different tone.

There is an interesting Kenyan case coming up regarding this

British people value human rights ....they are not always in control over what their govt does...

getz

britain gives £2.9 billion in aid to 90 different countries,as well as being one of the largest contributors to the EU,two EU countries get extra direct aid from the UK, direct aid from britian goes to russia,china/and over £1.4 billion to india, all three have a nuclear and space age industry, they even give aid to oil rich saudi arabia,maybe the PM is right we are the greatest mugs.

billybudd

getz wrote: »

britain gives £2.9 billion in aid to 90 different countries,as well as being one of the largest contributors to the EU,two EU countries get extra direct aid from the UK, direct aid from britian goes to russia,china/and over £1.4 billion to india, all three have a nuclear and space age industry, they even give aid to oil rich saudi arabia,maybe the PM is right we are the greatest mugs.

Nobody gives somethings for nothing, i include Ireland in that statement.

billybudd

poeticseraphim wrote: »

All countries have failings.....the British govt did terrible things to British people for centuries ... ..if there had been democracy it is likely a lot of the darker history would not have happened

But that does not mean they can't be proud to be British.....

All nations have something to be proud of....for Britain...Darwin.....Emily Pankhurst....Shakespeare...


The truth is the tories have this attitude of non apology to other countries...Labour and the Lib dems have a different tone.

There is an interesting Kenyan case coming up regarding this

British people value human rights ....they are not always in control over what their govt does...

Well said, although the bit in bold i would add that although they dont have control over what their government does ignorance in this day and age should not be an excuse, Britain has produced many fine things, from amazing films to amazing kitchen sink dramas and musical artists, art, chefs etc etc etc, the list is endless if i was British i would like to think those are the things i would be proud off and not what my military does unless its defending our actual country.


Sometimes i do wonder what was the difference between what Hitler tried and what Britain achieved? minus obvilously the horrible way jewish people where treated.

Happyman42

Playboy wrote: »

Well thats the point isnt it? The US vetoes when its in its interests and China/Russia will veto when its in their interests. Thats world politics unfortunately... The powerful countries arent going to do what their told by less powerful countries .. why would they?

Well don't bull**** then, like Cameron.
If you are just self interested...if you set these things up just so you can dominate smaller weaker nations, do not be suprised when somebody calls you on your bull**** lipservice to world peace, even us little 'bitter' serfs on Irish fora. Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir. :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

billybudd wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and?

To be honest FF i dont know why you would defend a military and government who caused so much innocent suffering in lands they had no business being in. maybe its from being from an area with a huge military base, thats assuming you are from there.

Are you proud of the Irish military that went to the Congo, or the several hundred in Sudan?

What about the ones in Lebanon?

bluecode

Sometimes i do wonder what was the difference between what Hitler tried and what Britain achieved? minus obvilously the horrible way jewish people where treated.

Finally! Good grief it took long enough. I was beginning to think Godwin's law was about to negated. But there it is. Comparing Britain to the Nazis.:rolleyes:

Billy I think you should get a prize or something.:p

Happyman42

9959 wrote: »

Oh, got you wrong.
So you are in favour of the US vetoing resolutions critical of Israel and that's why you brought Israel into the debate, or perhaps you're not in favour and you just thought you'd give Israel a gratuitous name check.
Curiouser and curiouser.

If your level of interpretation stops at base and lowest common denominator reactions to posts, you can't be helped, I suppose.
I never indicated my favour or bias, as it has absolutely no relevance in the context of the thread, I was making a point about what the UN actually is.

billybudd

bluecode wrote: »

Finally! Good grief it took long enough. I was beginning to think Godwin's law was about to negated. But there it is. Comparing Britain to the Nazis.:rolleyes:

Billy I think you should get a prize or something.:p

What sort of prize? :pac:

Anyway i do not mean todays Britain.

syklops

Bitter are we?

billybudd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are you proud of the Irish military that went to the Congo, or the several hundred in Sudan?

What about the ones in Lebanon?

Peace keeping missions? if they are doing anything improper link me to it and i will certainly not support them and i will also write a letter to the minister of Defence for an explanation.

Playboy

Happyman42 wrote: »

Well don't bull**** then, like Cameron.
If you are just self interested...if you set these things up just so you can dominate smaller weaker nations, do not be suprised when somebody calls you on your bull**** lipservice to world peace, even us little 'bitter' serfs on Irish fora. Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir. :rolleyes:

I didnt say these nations were only self-interested... I said they were first and foremost self interested. That doesnt mean they dont care about world peace or want stability. You are simplifying complex issues... foreign policy for a country of the size and stature of the UK is very different to the foreign policy of a country like Ireland. The UK do a lot of good in the modern world.. provide a lot of aid to countries, take in a lot of refugees and immigrants and fight for human rights and democracy. Are they perfect? No of course not but they are a hell of a lot better than the majority of countries of similar size and military capability.

Mickeroo

bluecode wrote: »

Finally! Good grief it took long enough. I was beginning to think Godwin's law was about to negated. But there it is. Comparing Britain to the Nazis.:rolleyes:

Billy I think you should get a prize or something.:p

I think it's a fair point tbh, the only difference is the british won imho. Same goes for the romans and mongolians before them. You can't create an empire without some blood shed. I don't think it's a valid reason to criticise the britain of today though, they did what any nation with the same power/resources would do at the time.

Fratton Fred

billybudd wrote: »

Peace keeping missions? if they are doing anything improper link me to it and i will certainly not support them and i will also write a letter to the minister of Defence for an explanation.

What is the difference between those missions and the ones in Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq 1, Sierre Leone and Afghanistan?

summerskin

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think it's a fair point tbh, the only difference is the british won imho. Same goes for the romans and mongolians before them. You can't create an empire without some blood shed. I don't think it's a valid reason to criticise the britain of today though, they did what any nation with the same power/resources would do at the time.

But Britain didn't invade anywhere in WW2. How can that be similar to the Nazis?????

Fratton Fred

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think it's a fair point tbh, the only difference is the british won imho. Same goes for the romans and mongolians before them. You can't create an empire without some blood shed. I don't think it's a valid reason to criticise the britain of today though, they did what any nation with the same power/resources would do at the time.

As was pointed out earlier, if it hadn't been the British, it would have been the French, Spanish, Portugese, Dutch etc etc.