Do you think all Irish children should have free health care?

burgermasters

mother_of_two wrote: »

Children are very expensive. I got two, and whenever one gets sick second get same next day. Doctors' bills multiple by two. Would be nice to have at least a discount at GP

i have three so i know how you feel,

NegativeCreep

burgermasters wrote: »

and how much do ye think that costs? you are a selfish greedy person, you think that people have a right to a collage grant but **** children who's parents are finding times hard and cant afford health care she be just left? i ask you again why the **** should I pay for your education? your not my kid?

Families who are truly struggling qualify for the medical card. Students who come from families that are struggling qualify for the grant. Every child should not get free healthcare because a lot of them don't need it in the same way that not every student gets a grant because a lot of students don't need it.

WhatNowForUs?

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If you cant afford to have children, don't have them.

And if you could when you had them but can't now what then.... auction them....

burgermasters

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Families who are truly struggling qualify for the medical card. Students who come from families that are struggling qualify for the grant. Every child should not get free healthcare because a lot of them don't need it in the same way that not every student gets a grant because a lot of students don't need it.

i have 3 kids my wife and myself,,work 45 hrs pw get less money than what i would get on the dole my wife cant work so its only my income i cant get a medical card or gp card but i soldier on,, yet you seem to sale through life no student should be getting any grants because 9 times out of 10 they drop out and what do ye know there on the dole? grow up collage grants are a waste. you are one ignorant f***er

burgermasters

but still cant afford health care

NegativeCreep

burgermasters wrote: »

i have 3 kids my wife and myself,,work 45 hrs pw get less money than what i would get on the dole my wife cant work so its only my income i cant get a medical card or gp card but i soldier on,, yet you seem to sale through life no student should be getting any grants because 9 times out of 10 they drop out and what do ye know there on the dole? grow up collage grants are a waste. you are one ignorant f***er

Suppose you carried that research out yourself?
No children have free healthcare in Ireland and guess what? 9 times out of 10 they survive to adulthood.

burgermasters

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Suppose you carried that research out yourself?
No children have free healthcare in Ireland and guess what? 9 times out of 10 they survive to adulthood.

4 out of 10 kids without any health care survive to adulthood 29000+ die every day **** head. stop smoking weed and open your eye's

B0jangles

burgermasters wrote: »

i have 3 kids my wife and myself,,work 45 hrs pw get less money than what i would get on the dole my wife cant work so its only my income i cant get a medical card or gp card but i soldier on,, yet you seem to sale through life no student should be getting any grants because 9 times out of 10 they drop out and what do ye know there on the dole? grow up collage grants are a waste. you are one ignorant f***er

I think I know why you are so poorly paid.

NegativeCreep

burgermasters wrote: »

4 out of 10 kids without any health care survive to adulthood 29000+ die every day **** head. stop smoking weed and open your eye's

I shan't entertain you any longer. You lie far too much, you can't help yourself.

FairytaleGirl

In the North healthcare is free for all. I know theres alot of crap said about the nhs but the reality is you can walk in and have life saving surgery, no question, no discrimination based on how rich you are.

Dental is free untill you are 19 (assuming you stay in full time education)

You should never have to pay to see a doctor unless its a cosmetic consult.

DazMarz

Bad as things are here, pray that things never go to the levels that they are in the USA.

I love America, don't get me wrong. I think it's a great place to visit, but I'd never live there... for the simple reason that the healthcare system is so screwed up over there. It can cost upwards of $3,000 to visit an Emergency Room over there.

Drugs and medicines are also a rip-off over there. Inhalers for certain respiratory ailments can be over $100, and most only last a fortnight.

When I was visiting the States about 2 years ago, I got the absolute worst strep throat I've ever had. I couldn't talk, swallow and I was having trouble breathing. I was lucky that I had a good wedge of money with me (I was on a gambling holiday to Vegas!), and when I went to a Medical Centre it cost me somewhere in the region of $450 for a 10 minute examination and the antibiotics. All said, I was actually back on my feet within 2 hours, so it well worked.

But still... over here the comparable treatment and so on would have been about €90, if that.

Yeah, our system is not good... but compared to the country that is touted as the richest and most powerful in the world (both can be argued against, though)... it's not that bad. Here, you will get treatment. Over in the States... you will be left to die on the street.

Arguably the most damning testament to the state of the US medical system is the TV show Breaking Bad: a man is driven to make crystal-meth to pay his medical bills!!!

burgermasters

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I shan't entertain you any longer. You lie far too much, you can't help yourself.

i work for charity **** for brains so i know these figures

burgermasters

B0jangles wrote: »

I think I know why you are so poorly paid.

im poorly paid because i took pay cuts rather than lose my job ye dick

SusieBlue

Of course they should. Investing in our children's future (and when I say children, I mean the whole population of children) is the key to getting this country back on track.

The better the start they have in life, the fewer the issues they'll have as adults. Free healthcare, and education (including college) is more worthy of investment than many of the other things the government pours money into.

Its a no brainer for me. I'm 21, both my parents worked when I was younger and I remember many a time going to the chemist with my mother to get some advice and buy some over the counter medicine because I was ill and she couldn't afford to take me to the doctor. I don't hold that against her, or feel deprived, just feel like it shouldn't be necessary.

Just remember that these children will be paying your pension. They give back more than they get, for the most part they'll be paying a life time of taxes to make up for what they cost the country as children.

ejmaztec

benchppress wrote: »

If you can't afford to pay to see the doctor perhaps cut back on the cigarettes, alcohol and digital television?

What if the parents are non-smoking, tea-totallers with no TV?

It seems to be standard procedure here for people to assume that people are poor because they spend all of their money on fags and booze.

burgermasters

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Of course they should. Investing in our children's future (and when I say children, I mean the whole population of children) is the key to getting this country back on track.

The better the start they have in life, the fewer the issues they'll have as adults. Free healthcare, and education (including college) is more worthy of investment than many of the other things the government pours money into.

Its a no brainer for me. I'm 21, both my parents worked when I was younger and I remember many a time going to the chemist with my mother to get some advice and buy some over the counter medicine because I was ill and she couldn't afford to take me to the doctor. I don't hold that against her, or feel deprived, just feel like it shouldn't be necessary.

Just remember that these children will be paying your pension. They give back more than they get, for the most part they'll be paying a life time of taxes to make up for what they cost the country as children.

Dead right,, couldnt have said it better myself

B0jangles

burgermasters wrote: »

im poorly paid because i took pay cuts rather than lose my job ye dick

I think you'd come across as a better advocate for your cause if you tried to refrain from childish personal insults at every opportunity.

burgermasters wrote: »

ye dick

burgermasters wrote: »

**** for brains

burgermasters wrote: »

**** head

burgermasters wrote: »

you are one ignorant f***er

ted1

There's being no mention off the cost of primary care versus the cost of treatment.
Early detection is proven to save money. All citizens should get free GP. Those that take the piss should be charged and those that present with a common cold should be put on a trolley in the hospital for the week.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

El Weirdo

burgermasters wrote: »

4 out of 10 kids without any health care survive to adulthood 29000+ die every day **** head. stop smoking weed and open your eye's

burgermasters wrote: »

i work for charity **** for brains so i know these figures

burgermasters wrote: »

im poorly paid because i took pay cuts rather than lose my job ye dick

Banned.

Ellis Dee

The short answer to the question in the OP is "yes".:)

The longer answer is "Of course they should, and it is a national scandal that a system of universal health care was not put in place during the boom years of the 1990s.":rolleyes:

kupus

good point Burger, student grants, cut them off, period.

Why the hell should taxpayers be paying for students to be out boozing 5 nights of the week.
70% of them drop out over the 3-4 years anyway.....so let the ones who really want to be educated be educated and the rest can get into the tax system quicker instead of being a drain on the system.

Now I dont have kids, I dont want kids and tbh I cant stand kids, BUT I would have no problem funding free health care for kids by cutting grants and making students pay for their own education.

Greentopia

This idea of "free" healthcare is a misnomer and misleading-deliberately?. Of course a public service like that can never be free, someone has to pay for it and under our current political and economic system that should be the taxpayer paying social insurance for universal healthcare.

Now is that the perfect system for funding healthcare? no, in my opinion it's not. I would prefer to see a federalised and localised approach where every worker pays a tax on their income for the healthcare needs of themselves, their dependents, pensioners, children and the unemployed that stays in the local community to fund local care provision, instead of taxpayers money going to centralised Govt. and being creamed off.

That's how the forerunner to the NHS was started in Aneurin Bevan's home town of Tredegar in South Wales. Local people who heard about the formation of the NHS thought he was going to turn the whole country into one big Tredegar.
Instead it ended up as the monolithic bloated edifice it is today.
Far better than our own health care system of course, but it could've been so much more.
Anyway I digress...

I find the selfish, heartless and individualist attitude of a few people on this thread disturbing-those who say "I don't want kids, why should I pay for them!". Because some day they will be taking care of you?? because it's the decent and moral thing to do for the good of everyone in society? because all jokes aside, kids really are the future of this country and therefore should be taken care of properly?

I don't have kids and never want them but I would in no way resent my taxes being spent on a fairer subsidised universal system so that all parents irrespective of income could expect decent and affordable health care for their kids. Because that's what civilised countries do for their citizens!

NegativeCreep

kupus wrote: »

good point Burger, student grants, cut them off, period.

Why the hell should taxpayers be paying for people to be out boozing 5 nights of the week.
70% of them drop out over the 3-4 years anyway.....so let the ones who really want to be educated be educated and the rest can get into the tax system quicker instead of being a drain on the system.

Now I dont have kids, I dont want kids and tbh I cant stand kids, BUT I would have no problem funding free health care for kids till 18 maybe cut grants and make them pay for their own education

Yeah, that's all us students do. :rolleyes: I also don't believe that 70% of students drop out over their course. Maybe they drop out and go to a different course but in the end, the majority get a degree.

cbyrd

brokenarms wrote: »

Just up to the night doctor with a sick child.

Turned out to be nothing serious but we did not want to take the chance. And rightly so.

Got a bill of 65 euro.

So if parent had no money and had a badly sick child , would the doctor still see the kid? Or just let the child get sicker or worse.

Seems outrages to me that we cant provide free healthcare to our most precious of citizens . Yet we can keep every tom, dick and harry in a free house and dutch gold tokens.

Have we got our proprieties all wrong?

if you can't pay on the night they will send you the bill. if you can't the bill then lcms or some other debt collection agency will ring you 10 times a day for 22 weeks.... otherwise get to know what illnesses need immediate treatment, and what temperatures are treatable with painkillers at home. ie a temp that last more than 24 hours consistently that doesn't come down with drugs is a bacterial infection and needs an antibiotic. a temp that goes down with drugs but up when they wear off and is intermittent is viral and just needs calpol or nurofen and tlc

http://www.dukehealth.org/health_library/advice_from_doctors/your_childs_health/bacterial_infections

Get your GP to explain and save yourself a fortune... stop panicking and remember if a child is going to get sick it will be at 3am. . . . little people:rolleyes:

A good argument for not touching the child benefit is we don't receive any tax credits or free gp/hospital care for kids when they do in the uk and most of europe...

Seanchai

El Weirdo wrote: »

Youssef Chippo wrote: »

No! I don't have kids so why the fuck should I pay for someone elses?

Because they'll probably be paying for your pension when you're older.

As a compromise to mad socialists who think we have a society rather than an economy maybe the rightwingers could agree to subsidise the healthcare of children above a certain IQ who can pass a test while in A&E, as clearly those children who fail cannot amount to much in life, will only be a burden on society and deserve to die asap.

Yours, the libertarians of Boards.ie.

gsxr1

Would I be right to assume the majority of NO people here are in their 20s and single? Therefore have no clue what lays ahead , and may find themselves in the OPs position in the future.

Or so ugly and black hearted that no one would want to have kids with them anyway....


immmmm

Nail/Head combo

Galwayguy35

The OP wants free care for every kid in the country though, why should someone on over 100 k a year not pay their way if they have a sick kid?

poeticseraphim

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The OP wants free care for every kid in the country though, why should someone on over 100 k a year not pay their way if they have a sick kid?

Because they would be contributing and paying in more than others.

NIMAN

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

In the North healthcare is free for all. I know theres alot of crap said about the nhs but the reality is you can walk in and have life saving surgery, no question, no discrimination based on how rich you are.

Dental is free untill you are 19 (assuming you stay in full time education)

You should never have to pay to see a doctor unless its a cosmetic consult.

Well technically you are wrong. This is a common error, and even Michael Moore tried to include it in his Sicko film to make the NHS sound like the best invention ever.

I am a NI tax payer. I pay National Insurance contributions from my wages on top of my Income Tax, and this is used to fund the NHS. I think the rate is currently 9%, but I can't be sure. So to say the NHS is free is not strictly true. All workers are paying for it.

I will agree with you that the NHS model is excellent, and compared to the likes of the USA, its definitely a great thing, but my father died at 55yrs old waiting on a triple by-pass operation. The waiting list was 18 months at the time, and he died nearly 12 months into the wait. He could have paid £15,000 and gone to England and got it done privately inside a few weeks, but didn't want to spend so much in case he didn't make it through the operation (he had other contributory factors which increased his risk of not surviving it).

So in theory you cannot 'walk in and get life saving surgery' just as easy as that. Of course some cases may require immediate attention, but many will have stories to show that the NHS is not all its cracked up to be, with many waiting years to be seen by specialists.

I would even say that the system in Ireland would sort you out immediately if you had a condition that needed immediate attention too.

whelan1

its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, some kids luckilly never have to go to the docotr, i seem to have 3 kids that are always sick - really, dont bring them unless i have to- in the last 2 weeks the 3 of them have been to the doctor, all sick all prescribed antibiotics:mad:Then i mightnt havr to bring them for months... i have been the parent with the meningitis child , also been the parent with the kid with the appenix having to be taken out , also had the child mauled by a dog :eek::eek: the health system has always worked for me but i have always paid.... To those that think that childrens healthcare should not be free , imagine saying to yourself will i take the money fromthe esb bill or the mortgage to bring my child to the doctor.... what happens as in my case the child did have to get her appendix out if i hadnt brought her to the doctor ,she was only 4

Galwayguy35

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Because they would be contributing and paying in more than others.

High earners pay more tax but they also have more disposable income to afford it, free healthcare for all would hit every taxpayer more in their pocket.

Also I wonder if it did become free would parents be running to doctors if their kid has even as much as a runny nose?

whelan1

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

High earners pay more tax but they also have more disposable income to afford it, free healthcare for all would hit every taxpayer more in their pocket.

Also I wonder if it did become free would parents be running to doctors if their kid has even as much as a runny nose?

thats why i earlier suggested a triage system for gp's surgeries...

pickarooney

In theory yes, of course but Ireland has never had nor never will have the means to support a functional model like in the richer European countries so Irish kids are just out of luck really. It's not even as though it's being pissed away on defence budgets or space travel, the population base, and hence the cash, is simply not there.

munchkin_utd

NIMAN wrote: »

Well technically you are wrong. This is a common error, and even Michael Moore tried to include it in his Sicko film to make the NHS sound like the best invention ever.

I am a NI tax payer. I pay National Insurance contributions from my wages on top of my Income Tax, and this is used to fund the NHS. I think the rate is currently 9%, but I can't be sure. So to say the NHS is free is not strictly true. All workers are paying for it.
<snip>.

the National Insurance does not pay fully for the NHS and other benefits that are covered by paying your stamps

National insurance takes in 96 billion a year
With NHS costs of 95 billion and Pensions and Benefits 123 billion thats an outgoing of 218billion "paid for" by 95billion income!

Its as much a charade as the Irish social welfare system where your PRSI barely covers a fraction of the outgoings. Only in the UK they tell you its also paying for the NHS.
Which it isnt if you look at the sums !

Equality

Do you think that all children should have free health care?

I don't understand why 'children' should have a greater entitlement to free health care.

By this I mean that I think all people, regardless of age, should have an entitlement to free health care. In other words, medical cards for everyone, not just for those who are elderly or who pass a means test.

The question is whether or not you are prepared to pay for this through your tax?

How much would free health for children (or everyone) be worth to the OP in terms of how much extra tax would s/he be prepared to pay per week to fund it?

CruelCoin

brokenarms wrote: »

Ok. good point.

but even a reduced child price. They are alot smaller than a normal person

By the same logic two 40 year olds, one a 200 pound man, should pay twice that of a 100 pound man?

If you make it free or cheap you'll see it swarmed by people presenting with nonsense.

pickarooney

Equality wrote: »

Do you think that all children should have free health care?

I don't understand why 'children' should have a greater entitlement to free health care.

By this I mean that I think all people, regardless of age, should have an entitlement to free health care. In other words, medical cards for everyone, not just for those who are elderly or who pass a means test.

Young children have weak immune systems and require medical care for ailments that adults can fight off more easily. They also require a lot of vaccinations (assuming you believe in vaccinations) that they won't in later life. There's an economic impetus of spending a penny now to save pounds later in assuring the very young get a healthy start in life.

NIMAN

I had to take my last child to the NowDoc service when she was less than 1 week old, and it cost me €50.

I think its scandalous that a newborn was subject to a normal charge.

Thats why I think that there should be a decent limit set for infants to be FREE, be it starting school, or their 3rd birthday or whatever. But to be charged for a 1 week old baby is not on.

Pride Fighter

Of course they should. Noel Browne 60 years ago was ahead of his time and we seem to be only going backwards.

Eve_Dublin

Public healthcare should be a priority. When I lived in the UK, I lived in one of the poorest areas of London and the locals GP clinic was always packed. How did they solve this? Before you went into see a doctor, you met with a nurse first who'd ensure you were sick enough to see a GP and if not, she had the power to write you up a prescription for your ailment.


I live in a country with a fantastic public healthcare system that's also massively in debt. That has less to do with people abusing the system and more to do with our government squandering tax payers money on things like defence they don't need, a transport system they can't afford, the constant renovation of the city centres, even when the country is broke, the bailing out of private investors and banks, sending the army to wars under the pretense of freedom fighting, bloated salaries of politicians and the ridiculous amount of politicians in power because the country is governed on an insanely regionalised level and of course, the millions stolen by corrupt politicians every year. I could go on.

Yesterday the Spanish military marched through Madrid to commemorate their Christopher **** Columbus' "discovery" of Latin America and to display their military prowess. Millions spent on this ridiculous celebration but for what? Everything that's not an absolute necessity right now should be cut down on but public healthcare and education for everyone should OF course be the biggest priorities.

The Spanish are healthy as fook. They've the second highest life expectancy in the world. That's not because they eat their 5 portions of fruit a day but because they're aware of their health here and they (everyone) can afford to look after themselves and no one is left behind (although the pricks in power are changing the rules drastically). When I lived in Ireland, people went to the doctor as a last resort or disagnosed a medicated themselves. I know I used to wander around wheezing with my asthma (which has gone now) because I couldn't afford the trip to the doctor to renew my prescription and this was pre-crisis...the days when I supposedly a Celtic Cub. Can't imagine what it's like now. Healthcare is a basic human right. Everything else should be sacrificed to ensure it's paid for. Our governments aren't prioritising on expenditure and that's the real problem.

anncoates

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Your kids are precious to you. Mot anyone else. No they shouldn't get free healthcare.

Assuming you're a tax payer, I'd be quite surprised if you don't avail (or at least could avail) of allowances, tax relief or subsidised services that other people don't.

Scanlas The 2nd

The role of a government IMO should be to aim to maximise the long term happiness of it's citizens.

I don't think free health care for all children would do that, I think the increased taxes, damage to the economy and the abuse of the system would decrease happiness by more than the increase in happiness caused by free health care for children.

So many debates on government policies go around in circles aimlessly because the fundamental goals of a government are never acknowledged.

2rkehij30qtza5

Yes and no.
The NHS in the UK is free for all & it would be great to have the same here!!! BUT our country is on its knees so for now, I don't think we can afford to do it...so no.
Don't people with medical cards get it free anyway?

Glenbhoy

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but the programme for government is supposed to be working towards a scheme whereby there will be free primary care for all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0915/1224324049439.html

It's supposed to be phased with various priority groups getting it first and so on. Imo it is a good idea and should save money in the long run, although, I really don't see it happening for a while.

Coming from NI, I am in favour of free GP care in principle, although, as some have stated, maybe a deterrent price of a €10 a visit would at least keep some of the cold patients away, there's no need to subsidise drugs beyond medical card holders though (although, the state should be able to impose reductions on the price of most prescription drugs anyway).

What I find ridiculous is the A&E charge of €100 for all patients at all hospitals. I have unfortunately found myself at the children's hospital on a few occasions over the past few years at times when GP services were not available (middle of the night) and had to pay that fee. I understand the logic behind the fee, but at a children's hospital? Not too many of them present whilst still under the influence with a wound requiring a few stitches because of a fall earlier in the night.....

whelan1

NIMAN wrote: »

I had to take my last child to the NowDoc service when she was less than 1 week old, and it cost me €50.

I think its scandalous that a newborn was subject to a normal charge.

Thats why I think that there should be a decent limit set for infants to be FREE, be it starting school, or their 3rd birthday or whatever. But to be charged for a 1 week old baby is not on.

i was always under the assumption that newborns get free medical care til they are 6 weeks old

borderlinemeath

pickarooney wrote: »

Young children have weak immune systems and require medical care for ailments that adults can fight off more easily. They also require a lot of vaccinations (assuming you believe in vaccinations) that they won't in later life. There's an economic impetus of spending a penny now to save pounds later in assuring the very young get a healthy start in life.

OT - Young children seem to have far weaker immune systems than previous generations based on the notion that they can't be exposed to the slightest germ. No touch soap dispensers/anti bacterial wipes/baths morning and evening...it's no wonder kids get sick at the slightest whiff of a cold.

I think maybe something like a juvenile medical card that had a certain amount of visits free per year based on income. It would cover check ups and vaccinations, and it would stop the panickers running to the gp at the slightest sniffle. It should also alert a gp to a child that may have an underlying disorder based on number of visits in a certain timeframe.

Glenbhoy

whelan1 wrote: »

i was always under the assumption that newborns get free medical care til they are 6 weeks old

I think that's correct, I know they don't charge the €100 a&e fee at the children's hospital for infants less than 6 weeks old.

NegativeCreep

anncoates wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Your kids are precious to you. Mot anyone else. No they shouldn't get free healthcare.

Assuming you're a tax payer, I'd be quite surprised if you don't avail (or at least could avail) of allowances, tax relief or subsidised services that other people don't.

What's that got to do with anything?

anncoates

NegativeCreep wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything?

There are lots of tax reliefs and other types of subsidy that don't necessarily benefit everybody. If people are so concerned at something like child medical care, then maybe they should give up any kind of subsidy they claim (or will claim in future) that doesn't apply to everybody: tax relief, mortgage reluef, etc.

I think the idea is ok in principle. Kids get sick a lot and it's expensive but there should be a threshold income over which you are disqualified and also a way to stop people bringing kids in for a cough and the like.