Where did my career go (the Francis Jeffers Story)

eagle eye

Anybody mentioned Keirrison in this thread? He looked like the next superstar centre forward when he was playing for Cortiba and then continued in the same vein at Palmeiras.

Barca came swooping in and bought him for €14 million+. Since then he has failed to spark anywhere. He was on loan at Benfica, then Fiorentina and since then has went back home and played for Santos, Cruzeiro and is now back at his first club Cortiba. All these have been loan spells and he is still owned by Barca. His current loan deal is until the end of the 2014 season when he will be 25 years old.

Its not looking good for him.

Jarrod

Jarrod wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing Kerlon to Neymar?

It might have been implied with the way i put it but i suppose the argument im trying to make is that perhaps players who are fairly freestyle in terms of their skill level and who do the amazing off the cuff things, perhaps their career has a shorter life span in terms of playing at the very very top?

Neymar will probably go on and be a relative success with Barca but compared to Messi i wonder could he sustain that same level of hunger? Do they lack that edge? Footballers of that variety such as Ronaldinho who while to be fair to him had an amazing career but i cant help feeling perhaps he could have got more from it with that Barca team considering his overall ability. He just seemed to lose that 10% whereas Xavi, Iniesta Messi etc just seem to gain the extra 10% and roll the sleeves up when the chips were down.

I realise comparing Kerlon with Neymar is apples with oranges but is there a risk that Neymar could go either way? Granted he is a full international

Would Pep Guardiola like Neymar for example?

Jarrod

Jarrod wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing Kerlon to Neymar?

Kerlon while most famous for the seal dribble he was actually on track to be an outstanding player just had injury after injury after injury

There's always a new pele in brazil (robinio, Adriano for example) and a new maradona in Argentina (riquelme, teves, saviola for example) neymar has heaps of potential but until I see it at European or international level he's just another new greatest player ever of the week

Just my opinion of course

GavRedKing

Ailani Lemon Stabilizer wrote: »

Kerlon while most famous for the seal dribble he was actually on track to be an outstanding player just had injury after injury after injury

There's always a new pele in brazil (robinio, Adriano for example) and a new maradona in Argentina (riquelme, teves, saviola for example) neymar has heaps of potential but until I see it at European or international level he's just another new greatest player ever of the week

Just my opinion of course

28 Brazil caps and 17 goals and winning the Copa Libertadores with Santos for the 1st time since Pele probably blows that theory out of the water...........IMO.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

28 Brazil caps and 17 goals and winning the Copa Libertadores with Santos for the 1st time since Pele probably blows that theory out of the water...........IMO.

Well that shut me up didn't realise he had 28 caps

GavRedKing

Ailani Lemon Stabilizer wrote: »

Well that shut me up didn't realise he had 28 caps

I was a bit surprsied myself, I thought he was close to 20 didnt realise it was closer to 30.

It wont be long until hes in Europe anyway so people can judge him a little more then, hes a fantastic talent either which way IMO.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

28 Brazil caps and 17 goals and winning the Copa Libertadores with Santos for the 1st time since Pele probably blows that theory out of the water...........IMO.

Brazil play alot of friendlies though so maybe early to judge his international ability.

GavRedKing

Deleted User wrote: »

Brazil play alot of friendlies though so maybe early to judge his international ability.

That's due to hosting the 2014 WC, theyve no choice but to play in friendlies, they'e one coming up in Stamford Bridge against Russia actually, seen the club promoting it.

Jarrod

At 21, Kerlon had played a handful of game for Cruzeiro and transferred to Chievo where he never started a game. He also never scored a goal for either team. Neymar, on the other hand is now 21 and has scored 129 goals for Santos and 17 for Brazil. He's already won the Copa Libertadores and has been named South American Footballer of the Year twice. I know Kerlon had injury after injury but you still can't compare the two.

FWIW, I already think Neymar is a very, very good player and I think even if he spent his career at Santos he could still be one the great players of his generation.

frostie500

It's amazing reading through the thread just how little a lot of posters think about players plying their trade outside England. There's an awful lot of names mentioned here that were terrible in the Premiership but went on to have very solid careers in France or Portugal or Holland, all very good leagues at various points in the last ten years.

Beyond that to say that players going to play in Brazil are past it/washed up/unmotivated is laughable. There's huge money in the Brazilian league now and the quality of football is very high. For players like Neymar staying in Brazil makes a lot of sense until after the World Cup. He can keep fit and continue to build his confidence before leaving Brazil next summer when he'll be 22.

We've seen loads of Brazilian players transfer for big money when they were 17 or 18 but then have their development trail off. For someone like Neymar teams will be buying a 22 year old who should have the experience and maturity to adapt better to the European game. Im sure that there is an element of "Im a big fish in a small pond here in Brazil" for Neymar's reluctance to move up to this point but it could be more beneficial for him in the long term of his career to have spent the time developing in Brazil rather than leaving Santos three or four years ago

Francie Barrett

frostie500 wrote: »

He can keep fit and continue to build his confidence before leaving Brazil next summer when he'll be 22.

I'd say lack of confidence in the one thing that will never afflict Neymar!

frostie500

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I'd say lack of confidence in the one thing that will never afflict Neymar!

True, he's definitely no shrinking violet! Main point I was making was that if he had have moved to Spain or England or whereever this year and struggled to adapt to a new country/league then his form could have suffered to such an extent that he could be dropped from the World Cup. With the risks of moving he made a good decision to stay for one more season before coming to Europe next year

Brain Stroking

I always take talk about these up and coming players with a pinch of salt. Neymar looks promising but there is also the chance he could just be another Robinho

Jarrod

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I always take talk about these up and coming players with a pinch of salt. Neymar looks promising but there is also the chance he could just be another Robinho

Yeah, I mean imagine wasting away your career at AC Milan after winning La Liga with Real Madrid. And he only managed 90 odd caps for Brazil. Pffft.

GavRedKing

Jarrod wrote: »

Yeah, I mean imagine wasting away your career at AC Milan after winning La Liga with Real Madrid. And he only managed 90 odd caps for Brazil. Pffft.

There was a stop off via Manchester between the La Liga title and AC Milan.

Jarrod

GavRedKing wrote: »

There was a stop off via Manchester between the La Liga title and AC Milan.

I know but I still think saying Neymar could turn out to be 'just another Robinho' is a bit much. Clearly Robinho didn't live up to the 'next Pele' tag but he's hardly wasting his career away either.

Brain Stroking

Jarrod wrote: »

Yeah, I mean imagine wasting away your career at AC Milan after winning La Liga with Real Madrid. And he only managed 90 odd caps for Brazil. Pffft.

Robinho was never even close to being one of the best players in the world. He was lightweight and suffered from a lack of workrate and proper decision making. I dont really care what the teams he played for won. He certainly wasnt the reason they won. How much did City pay for him? Worth it?

So, if Neymar turns out to be a big disappointment i will think of Robinho as he was a major disappointment.

Brain Stroking

Jarrod wrote: »

I know but I still think saying Neymar could turn out to be 'just another Robinho' is a bit much. Clearly Robinho didn't live up to the 'next Pele' tag but he's hardly wasting his career away either.

Not saying he is wasting his career. He was billed as going to be a top top player. He never even got close.

pickarooney

City got 30 million bucks' worth of street cred in buying Robinho.

Jarrod

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Not saying he is wasting his career. He was billed as going to be a top top player. He never even got close.

It depends what you mean by top top player really. If you mean say the top 5 players in the world at any given time then no, I don't think he was ever in that bracket. I still think he's a very, very good player.

Brain Stroking

Jarrod wrote: »

It depends what you mean by top top player really. If you mean say the top 5 players in the world at any given time then no, I don't think he was ever in that bracket. I still think he's a very, very good player.

I think Robinho was meant to make it into that bracket. He was being wooed by Real Madrid for ages when a kid in Brazil. Anyone who watched football couldnt help but know about this 18 yr old wunderkind from Brazil. He was touted to be the main man for Brazil in the years ahead. As i already said, he never even got close. You and i also have a different definition of a very very good player. He is a lazy overrated player who can produce magic but more often than not doesnt.

Remind you of anyone? Hence my comments on Neymar. Come to Europe where its at and produce the goods and then the talk about Neymar will be justified. In my opinion

Justin10

Freddy Adu was surely mentioned. When United took him on trial and didn't sign him I thought that was a sign that he wasn't going to be much.

Jarrod

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I think Robinho was meant to make it into that bracket. He was being wooed by Real Madrid for ages when a kid in Brazil. Anyone who watched football couldnt help but know about this 18 yr old wunderkind from Brazil. He was touted to be the main man for Brazil in the years ahead. As i already said, he never even got close. You and i also have a different definition of a very very good player. He is a lazy overrated player who can produce magic but more often than not doesnt.

Remind you of anyone? Hence my comments on Neymar. Come to Europe where its at and produce the goods and then the talk about Neymar will be justified. In my opinion

I think we're getting off topic here to be honest. I think we'll have to agree to differ on Robinho and wait and see about Neymar.

gnfnrhead

Rochey18 wrote: »

Freddy Adu was surely mentioned. When United took him on trial and didn't sign him I thought that was a sign that he wasn't going to be much.

He's 23.

Thecon21

Where's Clinton Morrison these days?

Brain Stroking

Jarrod wrote: »

I think we're getting off topic here to be honest. I think we'll have to agree to differ on Robinho and wait and see about Neymar.

Yeah no problem. For what it's worth i have had this conversation with my brother and he agrees with you. Anyways, we digress.....

wicklowdub

Dan Gossling - "forgot" to sign a contract extension at Everton before jumping ship and heading to Newcastle, think he did a CL pre-season and has completely fallen off the edge of a cliff there. In the season before he went he was on his way to legendary status at Goodison after scoring the winner in the cup against Liverpool (the goal the ITV viewers missed as they went to an advert).

Kerrydude1981

Thecon21 wrote: »

Where's Clinton Morrison these days?

Colchester Utd the Clint is doing his thing with these days

CSF

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Not saying he is wasting his career. He was billed as going to be a top top player. He never even got close.

Ah heya Jamie.

dd972

Just checked this thread as it's got 22 pages and it's couldn't possibly be still about Francis Jeffers !

Justin10

gnfnrhead wrote: »

He's 23.

Ye and his is moving club again, talks of going to Toronto

Rochey18

Rochey18 wrote: »

Freddy Adu was surely mentioned. When United took him on trial and didn't sign him I thought that was a sign that he wasn't going to be much.

gnfnrhead wrote: »

He's 23.

Thing about USA players also tbf is they improve with age. All of a sudden they seem to turn a corner and that might come with the fact that they perform relatively well in major tournaments and gain alot of confidence from this

If the expectation is off Freddy, which it may be, he may well develop into a decent player at a decent level, say an Everton or a Fulham. Brian McBride and Clint Dempsey took a while to get to a level where they became the best players they could be at any form of top level. Landon Donovan is another example.

All 3 of them look decent internationals but they really didnt shine until they hit their late 20s at club level so there is hope for Freddy yet. The expectation at such a young age could have hampered his development greatly. 14 playing Senior pro football and then having a Nike deal thrown at you is fierce pressure for a young man

EdenHazard

Deleted User wrote: »

Thing about USA players also tbf is they improve with age. All of a sudden they seem to turn a corner and that might come with the fact that they perform relatively well in major tournaments and gain alot of confidence from this

If the expectation is off Freddy, which it may be, he may well develop into a decent player at a decent level, say an Everton or a Fulham. Brian McBride and Clint Dempsey took a while to get to a level where they became the best players they could be at any form of top level. Landon Donovan is another example.

All 3 of them look decent internationals but they really didnt shine until they hit their late 20s at club level so there is hope for Freddy yet. The expectation at such a young age could have hampered his development greatly. 14 playing Senior pro football and then having a Nike deal thrown at you is fierce pressure for a young man

I dunno about Landon. In one way he had a great career but I don't think he maxed out his potential tbh. Just my opinion, with someone like McBride he really did get the most out of his ability and perhaps Clint too. But with Donovan he was a highly rated teenager/wonderkid.

I don't get why someone would reply he's 23 when Adu is brought up as to suggest its a nonsense having him mentioned. He is a prime example of where did my career go. He could have a good MLS career and even do well for some mid European team but it still would be a case of why Freddy didn't become the 'American Pele'(Mainly because he never had the talent to be that but also redic expectations, burn out, peaking too soon.

eagle eye

pickarooney wrote: »

City got 30 million bucks' worth of street cred in buying Robinho.

He was a starter at Real Madrid for 3 seasons before City bought him.

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I think Robinho was meant to make it into that bracket. He was being wooed by Real Madrid for ages when a kid in Brazil. Anyone who watched football couldnt help but know about this 18 yr old wunderkind from Brazil. He was touted to be the main man for Brazil in the years ahead. As i already said, he never even got close. You and i also have a different definition of a very very good player. He is a lazy overrated player who can produce magic but more often than not doesnt.

Remind you of anyone? Hence my comments on Neymar. Come to Europe where its at and produce the goods and then the talk about Neymar will be justified. In my opinion

Robinho came to Europe to Real Madrid and was improving every season. The season before City bought him it looked likely that he was going to take over as one of the superstars of world soccer.

It just didn't work out at City for him and since then he has been at Milan and hasn't done at all bad there. While he didn't become the huge superstar that people were talking about when he was a teenager he still became a top player. This is nothing close to a Franny Jeffers type of story.

MaroonAndGreen

Could make an argument for Fernando Torres here.. not that his career has gone, but that his career has gone downhill so mysteriously!

Liverpool 07/08 he was the best striker in the world, tearing it up for Spain too!

Since then his career has stalled... hes now been misfiring for about 3-4 years, and out of the Spain squad..

Whats happened Fernando?

jimjamcos

Lost Career: Last seen in Bolton area circa 2004.

Corholio

jimjamcos wrote: »

Lost Career: Last seen in Bolton area circa 2004.

In fairness he was 31 when he was with Bolton. His goalscoring record before that was phenomenal. For 5 clubs, he scored 298 goals in 321 games.

jimjamcos

Corholio wrote: »

In fairness he was 31 when he was with Bolton. His goalscoring record before that was phenomenal. For 5 clubs, he scored 298 goals in 321 games.

Yea know that but he could have been so much more than a prolific striker in Portugal. Barely kicked a ball for Brazil so definitely wasted given his talent career IMO.

I'm probably wrong to put him in this thread but he was always one player I wondered how much he could of achieved if his career had worked out different.

Yikes...13 clubs after Bolton!! His career went everywhere by the looks of it!!! :P

wonderfullife

Kim Kallstrom was a machine on Championship Manager back in my youth, think he had a decent career in the end though but fell off my radar.

Note - Had to laugh, i googled him and a Championship Manager forum archive popped up, saw this:

"re: Some great Championship Manager players 2000/01 Version 3.81 Oct 05, 01 at 9:56am

Try buying Samuel Eto'o a great 19 year old AM/F, put him as your attacking midfielder and you'll win every game for sure. I used him with Crystal Palace he's great:cool:"

Get that man a scouting job somewhere!!

James__10

Jason Koumas

monkey9

wonderfullife wrote: »

Kim Kallstrom was a machine on Championship Manager back in my youth, think he had a decent career in the end though but fell off my radar.

Note - Had to laugh, i googled him and a Championship Manager forum archive popped up, saw this:



Get that man a scouting job somewhere!!

You do know that's not real life, don't you?

764dak

Ton Ton Zola Moukoko

GLaDOS

wonderfullife wrote: »

Kim Kallstrom was a machine on Championship Manager back in my youth, think he had a decent career in the end though but fell off my radar.

Spent 6 years with Lyon, winning several trophies. Hardly a poor career!

99 caps for Sweden too.

Some of the West Ham fans might remember this fellow also, Zavon Hines who played in the Carling cup today. Hardly slumming it but many would feel he is playing below his natural level

Good article on him in todays Sindo

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/hines-healing-wounds-of-his-broken-dreams-29087189.html

spiralism

Kleberson is one...i've tried to purge him from my mind but i think he's playing for a Brazilian mid table side now...Bahia i think.

EDIT: Had an alright if not outstanding stint at Flamengo apparently, checked there

Now David Bellion on the other hand....currently rotting away doing f all in Bordeaux. Been there for years, has had spells of three years without a goal and wasn't able to get anywhere near a starting forwards place in their title year...a place occupied by legendary goal machine marouane chamakh.

wonderfullife

Jody Morris mentioned yet? Doing well with Chelsea turned down a big 5-year contract offer in 2003 and within 2 years was playing for Rotherham! He wasn't far off the full England squad around the time either and was even chelsea captain briefly.

ben.schlomo

wonderfullife wrote: »

Jody Morris mentioned yet? Doing well with Chelsea turned down a big 5-year contract offer in 2003 and within 2 years was playing for Rotherham! He wasn't far off the full England squad around the time either and was even chelsea captain briefly.

Hes gone on to be a first team regular for St Johnstone for the last few years, again not in the vain of the thread title. As for Bellion, a first team regular in a Ligue1 team who consistently finish in the upper echelons, how would that be throwing a career away? Every time i read a new post in here its just completely missed the point of the thread, time to be closed if you ask me.

TaosHum

wicklowdub wrote: »

Dan Gossling - "forgot" to sign a contract extension at Everton before jumping ship and heading to Newcastle, think he did a CL pre-season and has completely fallen off the edge of a cliff there. In the season before he went he was on his way to legendary status at Goodison after scoring the winner in the cup against Liverpool (the goal the ITV viewers missed as they went to an advert).

Has been injured for pretty much all his career in Newcastle. He is still only 23.

Aenaes

Anthony Le Tallec and Florent Sinama Pongolle? The two cousins were products of the Le Harve youth academy and played well for the French youth teams before being signed by Liverpool.
Often touted as the "next Henry" or "next Anelka" etc., they are now both 28 and after numerous loan deals each, Le Tallec is playing for Valenciennes FC in Ligue 1 and Pongolle playing for FC Rostov in the Russian league.

ben.schlomo

Aenaes wrote: »

Anthony Le Tallec and Florent Sinama Pongolle? The two cousins were products of the Le Harve youth academy and played well for the French youth teams before being signed by Liverpool.
Often touted as the "next Henry" or "next Anelka" etc., they are now both 28 and after numerous loan deals each, Le Tallec is playing for Valenciennes FC in Ligue 1 and Pongolle playing for FC Rostov in the Russian league.

Been brought up before, and i think we established they arent in the Jeffers category,again.