AIB refusing someone a business account...

HellFireClub

I've just been off the phone to a client who has recently left a partnership and started up a new company on his own. He told me that he went into his local AIB branch and tried to set up a bank account for his new company and they are refusing to provide him with same, on the basis of a few missed direct debits and basic issues they have with him having been a small bit overdrawn previously in relation to an unauthorised overdraft that he had on his account. Obviously they previously paid out on an item(s) that hit his account and he didn't lodge, so the account fell into the red, but not by more than a few hundred Euro which he has since resolved.

I find it hard to see how a bank that is almost 100% in state ownership and is bleeding taxpayers of this country fúcking dry with the billion and billions of Euro that it has had to be bailed out with, can treat an entrepreneur of this country in such a disgusting manner.

This guy was previously a partner in a firm that turned over several million a year, that hasn't worked out, so he moved on and his now trying to set up the same activity on his own, which I have no doubt that he will be able to do.

I've another mate who recently opened an account with AIB and a not dissimilar story, this time though, AIB are bouncing cheques he has written, on the basis that his funds in his account are uncleared. This is happening because AIB are working on an assumption that cheques that he has lodged will bounce, (which they didn't), so by the time those cheques have cleared, AIB have already bounced the cheques that were written out of his account?!?!?

Any time I'm hearing these days of a people having a problem with their bank, it seems to be AIB that are at the very centre of it. Just wondering are there any similar stories out there?

My own experience with AIB once in a South Dublin suburb branch, I once had a Relationship Manager in that branch tell me I wasn't being entertained for a loan because it wasn't involved in property, basically I was a mug because I was looking for a business loan that was non-property related. The same individual was promoted to assistant branch manager recently to another south Dublin AIB branch, something that I personally again, find to be disgusting.

mneylon

If his personal account is not in "good standing" then the bank is 100% right to refuse him a business account.

HellFireClub

Blacknight wrote: »

If his personal account is not in "good standing" then the bank is 100% right to refuse him a business account.

Well if he had an unauthorised overdraft, which he resolved after lodging, I don't see where the problem could possibly be. He isn't looking for an overdraft off them or facilities, apart from an account that he can lodge into and withdraw from. They aren't exposed, what's the problem?

It sounds to me like, "thou shalt not fail", which is a bit rich coming from a bank that is completely bust, not because of people trying to start up small businesses, but because of the banks stupid and entirely voluntarily exposure to massive property speculation!

Peterdalkey

Given the negative state of his existing personal relationship with AIB, he would be much better off banking his new buisiness with either Ulster or BoI with a clean sheet. If it works out well, then he could move his personal account too, at a later stage.

westies4ever

they're an awful shower altogether. he's far better off going elsewhere.

HellFireClub

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Given the negative state of his existing personal relationship with AIB, he would be much better off banking his new buisiness with either Ulster or BoI with a clean sheet. If it works out well, then he could move his personal account too, at a later stage.

I personally think they are a bunch of asswipes, the only reason I'm still with them is because of the iBB. When I was with BOI a few years ago, their internet business banking was antiquated and all based around having a digital cert on a desktop or laptop. With AIB iBB, you have a "Digipass" and can access your account from any device or any location once you have your Digipass and an internet connection.

Thankfully I've no reason to have an issue with AIB but they are impossible to deal with if you are having problems.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

I probably hate AIB more than anybody on this board, so it really pains me to defend them.... but if someone is writing cheques without cleared funds in the account to pay for them, then they are correct to bounce them. If someone is trying to start a business and they have a history of not being able to run finances correctly and cause the bank hassle... then fair enough. Customers are not entitled to open an account if the bank cannot profit from doing business with them, they are supposed to be a commercial entity.

I do agree they are doing a shocking job of dealing with businesses, but it's not like they are the only bank out there. Any business will tell you that you will get more support banking with non Irish banks at the moment, so we use minimum facilities from Irish banks and are making a concerted effort to do more business in UK and US banks. In doesn't feel very patriotic, but without their support I can't create jobs over here.

Despite being an Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the year finalist this year I got refused a small over draft increase last month and when I had a new senior executive sign on I had to reduce my credit card limit in order for him to have a credit card issued - after some months of waiting. In my opinion their credit committee have absolutely no capability to understand business or interpret accounts.

But at the end of the day they are just a bank, we will now be looking to Silicon Valley Bank if we need any facilities that are beyond the basic day to day stuff. So far i've found them great.

I'd suggest shopping around.

HellFireClub

Blacknight wrote: »

If his personal account is not in "good standing" then the bank is 100% right to refuse him a business account.

Say if he has mortgage arrears and decides to set up a business, if the situation was where he was out of work, if he couldn't find a job, so he decided to incorporate a company, go sole shareholder and open a bank account and take a run at self employment.

You reckon the better option is to refuse him a business bank account on the basis that he is carrying personal arrears on a completely separate matter and leave him on the scratcher, the auld "sure fúck 'em" mentality that we appear to be seeing from AIB???

HellFireClub

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan wrote: »

I probably hate AIB more than anybody on this board, so it really pains me to defend them.... but if someone is writing cheques without cleared funds in the account to pay for them, then they are correct to bounce them. If someone is trying to start a business and they have a history of not being able to run finances correctly and cause the bank hassle... then fair enough. Customers are not entitled to open an account if the bank cannot profit from doing business with them, they are supposed to be a commercial entity.

I do agree they are doing a shocking job of dealing with businesses, but it's not like they are the only bank out there. Any business will tell you that you will get more support banking with non Irish banks at the moment, so we use minimum facilities from Irish banks and are making a concerted effort to do more business in UK and US banks. In doesn't feel very patriotic, but without their support I can't create jobs over here.

Despite being an Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the year finalist this year I got refused a small over draft increase last month and when I had a new senior executive sign on I had to reduce my credit card limit in order for him to have a credit card issued - after some months of waiting. In my opinion their credit committee have absolutely no capability to understand business or interpret accounts.

But at the end of the day they are just a bank, we will now be looking to Silicon Valley Bank if we need any facilities that are beyond the basic day to day stuff. So far i've found them great.

I'd suggest shopping around.

Couldn't agree more. What we really need in this country is a bank that is started up from new, and that is created by small business, for small business. Something like a Credit Union type structure, and shares sold locally to generate capital. If there was something along the lines of a bank that was something like a credit union type concept, but more like a business bank, I'd shut my AIB account in the morning and have absolutely fúck all to do with the cúnts again.

In relation to the subject you mentioned of uncleared funds. I know in the past, if I had a balance of 0.00 in my account and lodged a cheque for 1,000 Euro and wrote a cheque out of my A/C at the same time for 500 Euro, the uncleared 1K cheque I lodged, would be given a chance to clear before the 500 Euro cheque could bounce. Is this no longer the set up or whats the story there, as I've a mate who nearly had the Gardai called on him in an AIB branch recently after a serious disagreement/uproar broke out at the counter after the bank returned a cheque on him because the funds were present but not cleared in his account, (as opposed to just not there at all)...

mneylon

HellFireClub wrote: »

Say if he has mortgage arrears and decides to set up a business, if the situation was where he was out of work, if he couldn't find a job, so he decided to incorporate a company, go sole shareholder and open a bank account and take a run at self employment.

You reckon the better option is to refuse him a business bank account on the basis that he is carrying personal arrears on a completely separate matter and leave him on the scratcher, the auld "sure fúck 'em" mentality that we appear to be seeing from AIB???

I think you're missing the point entirely

A company bank account comes with certain "powers" and obligations that exceed those of a personal account.

The bank is obliged to do basic credit checks on any new customer, so if they feel that this person's history is problematic they are only doing what they're supposed to do (Of course if banks had been doing this all along then maybe we wouldn't have NAMA etc... )

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

HellFireClub wrote: »

... I've a mate who nearly had the Gardai called on him in an AIB branch recently after a serious disagreement/uproar broke out at the counter after the bank returned a cheque on him because the funds were present but not cleared in his account, (as opposed to just not there at all)...

It is illegal / fraud (I think) to write cheques without cleared funds to pay for them. Also "your mate" who decided to start uproar with some branch clerk misses the point, the people is the branch have as much input to corporate policy now-a-days and the homeless guy sitting beside the ATM outside. AIB has someone called a "relationship manager" who's job it is to manage to keep you from having any contact or relationship with anyone capable of making a decision in any shape or form. There is no way I would have been refused a loan if I was face to face with a decision maker, but that is not the format they operate. On one hand we are being applauded as being the one of the top companies in the country and in AIB's same interpretation of the accounts we not capable of re-paying 1 days turnover in an overdraft.

Seriously - Having the Guards called over that example is much of a waste of tax payers money as the bonuses the AIB staff were paid.

On a side note does anyone else's blood boil everytime AIB runs an ad saying they are supporting business?? Seems like the ultimate waste of tax payers money, which if they we're interested in business they would have used that capital actually support businesses.

HellFireClub

Blacknight wrote: »

I think you're missing the point entirely

A company bank account comes with certain "powers" and obligations that exceed those of a personal account.

The bank is obliged to do basic credit checks on any new customer, so if they feel that this person's history is problematic they are only doing what they're supposed to do (Of course if banks had been doing this all along then maybe we wouldn't have NAMA etc... )

What "powers" are available to a user of a domestic business company current account, that exceed that of a domestic personal current account? If the bank do not give you a credit line or an overdraft, then you simply cannot spend money unless you have lodged it in your account.

If every person in this country was evaluated right now for their right to continue holding a bank account, on the basis of their credit history, I imagine that the outcome of that exercise would be that the majority of bank accounts would be shut.

srsly78

You can't setup a company "on your own". You need 2 directors.

Also they did him a favour, "business" bank accounts are a ripoff. They charge you crazy fees and the services offered are often inferior to personal accounts (internet banking for example).

Just open a second personal account and use that for company if it's a small business. For a larger business, or a small business with large volume of transactions then yes you might need a business account.

HellFireClub

srsly78 wrote: »

You can't setup a company "on your own". You need 2 directors.

Also they did him a favour, "business" bank accounts are a ripoff. They charge you crazy fees and the services offered are often inferior to personal accounts (internet banking for example).

Just open a second personal account and use that for company if it's a small business. For a larger business, or a small business with large volume of transactions then yes you might need a business account.

I have free banking with AIB, their internet banking is excellent for small business, especially for someone like myself who is involved in internet sales. That's about all AIB is good for though.

EDIT: And by the way, you can own a company on your own now, I accept that you still need a minimum of 2 x directors.

srsly78

I think you might have been suckered in by their "no fees for x years" deal for new businesses. Once that runs out you will want to switch like I did

HellFireClub

srsly78 wrote: »

I think you might have been suckered in by their "no fees for x years" deal for new businesses. Once that runs out you will want to switch like I did

I probably will, I would have no loyalty to them whatsoever, I don't deposit any money with them, they won't get an extra cent out of me, they are arrogant bastárds as far as I'm concerned. I'll never forget being told back in 2007 that I wasn't even getting a loan application into them, because I wasn't involved in property, basically I was seen as a mug for wanting to invest in the independent end of motor industry. The same cúnt who told me that, has since been promoted into another branch.

rainbowdash

I just have a personal primitive deposit account and there are almost zero fees associated with it at all. You can't make direct debits or standing orders but it does have internet banking, and you can make international transfers through that for free.

They don't charge €5/€1000 for cash deposits either.