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CSO report on public-private pay gap

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    As usual half baked comparisons without any real concern for substance.

    The Spanish Prime Minister lives here
    640px-Palacio_de_la_Moncloa.jpg

    If you have a house paid for, and probably meals etc provided, and perhaps allowances for suits etc, then the salary becomes pocket money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Japer wrote: »
    There are many many managers and managers of managers in charge of the Nurses and teachers who are also paid "ridiculous salaries" and pensions. There are countless retired public servants in Ireland who get more of a pension than the Spanish prime minister gets for working.

    So you're agreeing with me?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    ardmacha wrote: »
    As usual half baked comparisons without any real concern for substance.

    The Spanish Prime Minister lives here
    640px-Palacio_de_la_Moncloa.jpg

    If you have a house paid for, and probably meals etc provided, and perhaps allowances for suits etc, then the salary becomes pocket money.

    Did we not buy Farmleigh House or was it only as a kind hany place to welcome. Do all the Spanish minsters have fine houses as well and if not are they on higher salarys than the PM:rolleyes:

    Look lads it hard to defend the indefencible you might as well give up,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Did we not buy Farmleigh House or was it only as a kind hany place to welcome.

    As you well know Farmeligh house is not an official residence of the Taoiseach.
    Do all the Spanish minsters have fine houses as well and if not are they on higher salarys than the PM

    If you don't actually understand the structure of pay in Spain why not research this before ranting posting about it?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    So you're agreeing with me?
    I agree our public service is way overpaid and overpensioned, yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    some examples related to this salary survey for Ireland 2012

    from local authorites Senior engineer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Salary survey Director Engineer up to €110,000+
    Manager Engineer up to €90,000

    Dublin City Head of Finance €132,511
    Salary survey Chief Financial Officer (15 + yrs’ exp) €120,000 to €150,000

    Now there may be other jobs where the PS seems a bit high, e.g. Dublin City Personnel officer is paid the same as the Finance guy, although HR salaries generally are as not as high as Finance.

    As always the story is mixed and nuanced, although you'd never think that reading here.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    ardmacha wrote: »
    some examples related to this salary survey for Ireland 2012

    does it show that 60% of architects are unemployed, and public sector architects get over double the average salary of private sector architects?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Japer wrote: »
    does it show that 60% of architects are unemployed, and public sector architects get over double the average salary of private sector architects?

    Would that not have something to do with the lack of building now. Didn't they cream it for years anyway when the poor Public Sector crowd were on a pittance compared to them. Swings and roundabouts.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    the poor Public Sector crowd were on a pittance
    the "poor public sector crowd" were never on a pittance, and certainly not during the celtic tiger years, when they were the highest known paid public servants in the whole world. That has not gone un-noticed by the IMF / germans who now refuse to write off any of our govt debt, when the Irish public servants sitting across the negotiating table are higher paid than they are.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Japer wrote: »
    the "poor public sector crowd" were never on a pittance, and certainly not during the celtic tiger years, when they were the highest known paid public servants in the whole world. That has not gone un-noticed by the IMF / germans who now refuse to write off any of our govt debt, when the Irish public servants sitting across the negotiating table are higher paid than they are.;)

    Is it not the Banking debts?
    The banks were Private Sector.
    Thought you would know that, an educated man like you.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Is it not the Banking debts?
    The banks were Private Sector.
    The banks were regulated ( or supposed to have been ) by the public sector. Had the regulator, central bank, dept of finance and government ( all public service, paid by the taxpayer ) done their jobs property, the country would not be in the mess its in. The bank debt was taken on by the public sector. The public sector did not take on the bad debts of other private sector firms which were badly run. The banks are now public sector you can say, having been largely nationalised.
    Thought you would know that, an educated man like you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Japer wrote: »
    The banks were regulated ( or supposed to have been ) by the public sector. Had the regulator, central bank, dept of finance and government ( all public service, paid by the taxpayer ) done their jobs property, the country would not be in the mess its in. The bank debt was taken on by the public sector. The public sector did not take on the bad debts of other private sector firms which were badly run. The banks are now public sector you can say, having been largely nationalised.
    Thought you would know that, an educated man like you.

    Too late. It was after the fact :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Too late. It was after the fact :D
    what fact are you unclear about?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Japer wrote: »
    the "poor public sector crowd" were never on a pittance, and certainly not during the celtic tiger years, when they were the highest known paid public servants in the whole world.

    Any proof of that or i'd even settle for a tenuous link of sorts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Japer wrote: »
    what fact are you unclear about?

    There you go. Have a read -

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0331/bank.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    There you go. Have a read -

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0331/bank.html[/QUOTE]

    that link confirms everything I said. Now, which fact are you unclear about?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    woodoo wrote: »
    Any proof of that or i'd even settle for a tenuous link of sorts.
    www.cso.ie


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Japer wrote: »

    And your specific source for the assertion you made? I don't see anything jumping out at me to show our PS as the highest paid in the world - I'm afraid you can't get away with making a suggestion like that without any basis in fact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Any proof of that or i'd even settle for a tenuous link of sorts.

    Why doesn't Jimmmy produce some specific evidence of this, that public servants were the highest in the world, not just well paid (as everyone knows that people in Ireland generally were pretty well paid and this is not the cause of debate). Then we can ask the kind moderators to link it in a sticky. Of course, if this data cannot be produced then perhaps people would be honest enough not to make statements to this effect.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    I don't see anything jumping out at me to show our PS as the highest paid in the world

    the"known" world, it was.
    There was a thread with that once. The CSO ( central statistics office ) confirms that our average public serice pay was €49.5k a year. No other average public sector pay in the world was found to come close. Average public sector pay in the UK at the time was only £21.5k - and many over there were complaining how high that was!
    Lots of other countries were looked at, nobody - not even the most feverish public servant - could find a country where average public sector pay was close to that in Ireland, never mind exceeded it.
    another thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69669949


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Japer wrote: »
    the"known" world, it was.
    There was a thread with that once. The CSO ( central statistics office ) confirms that our average public serice pay was €49.5k a year. No other average public sector pay in the world was found to come close. Average public sector pay in the UK at the time was only £21.5k - and many over there were complaining how high that was!
    Lots of other countries were looked at, nobody - not even the most feverish public servant - could find a country where average public sector pay was close to that in Ireland, never mind exceeded it.
    another thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69669949

    It is not up to us to find info to disprove something that came out of the top of your head.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    woodoo wrote: »
    It is not up to us to find info to disprove something that came out of the top of your head.
    cos you cannot. I once challenged a union official to find me info anywhere which showed average public service wages anywhere else in the world were as high or higher than in Ireland, and I promised him €100 cash if he could rise to the challenge, and he could not.

    USA, Australia, Germany, all the G7 nations, most of the G20 nations were looked at....none paid their public servants as much as we paid ours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    OK, so lets look at a sample of jurisdictions, never mind the whole world, 2009 data pre cut.

    secretarial positions, Ireland is not highest
    gvi-30-01.gif

    senior management, Ireland is not the highest
    gvi-27-01.gif

    teachers, Ireland is not the highest
    gvi-25-01.gif

    medical, OK we were highest for consultants, but not for GPs or nurses
    there are feck all consultants, they hardly affect the average
    gvi-26-01.gif

    how about professionals, oddly enough Ireland is not top here either
    gvi-29-01.gif

    Japer, get up the yard.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Just came accross this now to put it in prespective the prime Minster of Spain earns a little over 100K i believe puts it in perspective



    Carlow
    County manager (Tom Barry): €132,511
    5 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Vet inspector: €94,392
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €81,232
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,103,986

    Cavan
    County manager (Jack Keyes): €132,511
    4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    5 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €995,696

    Clare
    County manager (Tom Coughlan): €142,469
    Chief veterinary inspector: €93,436 to €109,927
    4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    2 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior executive officer: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,025,383

    Cork City
    City manager (Tim Lucey): €153,260
    Assistant city manager: €90,453 to €106,900
    5 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    3 heads of function: €90,453 to €106,900
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,115,360

    Cork County
    County manager (Martin Riordan): €162,062
    3 divisional managers: €125,885
    Chief vet officer: €93,436 to €111,177
    10 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    1 county engineer: €81,077 to €98,379
    4 vet inspectors: €60,555 to €94,392
    19 senior professionals (engineer/architect/planner/solicitor/scientist): €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,185,394

    Donegal
    County manager (Seamus Neely): €142,469
    5 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    4 senior engineers: €74,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,025,437

    Dublin City
    City manager (John Tierney): €189,301
    City engineer/director of traffic: €142,469
    Assistant city manager: €132,511
    Head of finance: €132,511
    Personnel officer: €132,511
    Executive manager: €90,453 to €106,900
    Dublin city librarian: €90,453 to €106,900
    Financial accountant: €90,453 to €106,900
    ICT manager: €90,453 to €106,900
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,263,803

    Dún Laoighre-Rathdown
    County manager (Owen Keegan): €153,260
    8 directors of services: €106,900
    County law agent: €95,540
    County architect: €95,540
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,104,000

    Fingal
    County manager (David O’Connor): €162,062
    6 directors of services: €106,900
    County architect: €95,540
    Law agent: €95,540
    5 senior engineers (five of them on the top point of the scale): €73,223 to €87,117
    3 senior planners: €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,081,714

    Galway city
    City manager (Joe O’Neill, acting): €132,511
    3 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance and ICT: €90,453 to €106,900
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior planner: €73,223 to €87,117
    2 management accountants: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €992,615

    Galway county
    County manager (Martina Moloney): €142,469
    5 directors of service: €90,453 to €106,900
    2 veterinary inspectors:€60,555 to €94,392
    Chief fire officer €76,884 to €91,472
    6 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,044,342

    Kerry
    County manager (Tom Curran): €142,469
    6 directors of services: €106,900 (one not in place; seconded to Limerick Regeneration Agency)
    Law agent: €95,540
    Veterinary inspector: €94,392
    Head of finance: €90,453
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,064,254

    Kildare
    County manger (Michael Malone): €153,260
    6 directors of service: €86,408 to €106,900
    6 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,056,011

    Kilkenny
    County manager (Joe Crockett): €142,469
    3 directors of service: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance €90,453 to €106,900
    Veterinary officer: €60,555 to €94,392
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior planner: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,012,989

    Laois
    County manager (Peter Carey): €132,511
    2 director of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior planner: €73,223 to €87,117
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Financial management accountant: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €888,796

    Leitrim
    County manager (Jackie Maguire): €132,511
    4 director of services: €90,453 to €106,900 Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Veterinary officer: €60,555 to €94,392
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,022,754

    Limerick city
    City manager (Tom Mackey): €142,469
    4 directors of service: €98,677 to €106,900
    3 senior engineers: €81,886 to €87,117
    Senior executive officer: €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,006, 258

    Limerick county
    County manager (Gerry Behan, acting): €142,469
    5 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Veterinary officer: €60,555 to €94,393
    5 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Regional waste co-ordinator: €73,223 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,052,496

    Longford
    County manager (Tim Caffrey): €132,511
    2 directors of services (plus one acting director of services): €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Senior resident engineer: €80,076
    2 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    4 senior executive officer: €64,426 to €84,036
    8 senior executive engineers: €62,276 to €78,501
    Veterinary inspector: €60,555 to €94,392
    2 resident engineers: €59,680 to €68,030
    Site technician: €48,147 to €52,363
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,066,529

    Louth
    County manager (Conn Murray) €142,469
    5 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    6 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    11 in senior executive officer/financial management accountant/senior social worker/county librarian/head of IT posts: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,025,437

    Mayo
    County manager (Peter Hynes): €142,469
    County engineer: €90,453 to €106,900
    4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Project resident engineer: €88,698
    Vet inspector: €60,555 to €94,392
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,054,076

    Meath
    County Manager (Tom Dowling) €153,260
    4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 €106,900
    County Vet: €88,898 to €98,945
    Project resident engineer: €88,698
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior planner: €73,223 to €87,117
    4 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,049,637

    Monaghan
    County manager (David Fallon): €132,511
    2 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Acting director of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Veterinary inspector: €60,555 to €94,392
    Senior executive officer: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €999,890

    North Tipp
    County manager (Joe MacGrath): €132,511
    3 directors of service: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Veterinary inspector: €60,555 to €94,392
    4 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,002,971

    Offaly
    County manager (Pat Gallagher): €132,511
    4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior planner: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €995,696

    Roscommon
    County manager (Frank Dawson): €132,511
    3 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Veterinary inspector: €60,555 to €94,392
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,002,971

    Sligo County
    County manager (Hubert Kearns): €136,509
    3 directors of services: €99,970 to €109,268
    Senior executive officer: €104,885
    Project engineer: €96,167
    2 senior engineers: €86,818 to €92,919
    Veterinary inspector: €91,336
    Chief librarian: €86,573
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,012,872

    Sligo Borough
    Acting director of services: €102,787
    Senior executive officer: €81,234
    4 senior executive engineers: €71,824 to €76,118
    Executive engineer and acting senior executive engineers: €64,373
    Executive engineer: €62,374
    3 administrative officers: €59,324 to €61,420
    * What the top 10 earn: €653,182

    South Dublin
    County manager (Philomena Poole, acting): €162,062
    8 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Project engineer (construction): €87,117
    County architect: €78,368 to €95,540
    Law agent: €78,368 to €95,540
    15 in senior engineer/senior architect/senior planner/parks superintendent/solicitor/health and safety adviser posts: €73,223 to €87,117
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,104,379

    South Tipp
    County manager (Billy McEvoy): €142,469
    5 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    4 veterinary inspectors: €60,555 to €94,393
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,054,541

    Waterford City Council
    City manager (Michael Walsh): €132,511
    3 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Senior engineer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Senior architect: €73,223 to €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    City librarian: €64,426 to €84,036
    Head of information systems: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €989,534

    Waterford County Council
    County manager (Denis McCarthy): €132,511
    4 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    County librarian: €68,496
    4 senior executive officer: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €973,994

    Westmeath
    County manager (Danny McLoughlin) €142,469
    2 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Veterinary officer: €60,555 to €94,392
    Chief fire officer: €73,223 to €87,117
    3 senior engineers: €73,223 to €87,117
    County librarian: €64,426 to €84,036
    * What the top 10 earn: €990,065

    Wexford
    County manager (Eddie Breen): €142,469
    3 directors of services: €102,787 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €94,565
    County veterinary officer: €94,392
    2 senior engineers: €87,117
    Chief fire officer: €84,500
    Senior engineer: €84,500
    * What the top 10 earn: €991,247

    Wicklow
    County manager (Eddie Sheehy): €142,469
    6 directors of services: €90,453 to €106,900
    Head of finance: €90,453 to €106,900
    Law agent: €78,368 to €95,540
    Veterinary inspector: €60,555 to €94,392
    * What the top 10 earn: €1,080,701

    Our average public sector salary - from the hundreds of thousands of public servants in this State - is well publicised by www.cso.ie was €49.5k a few years ago, its just slightly less that that now.
    I bet nobody can find a public service pay equal to or higher than that anywhere in the world. They could not a year or 2 ago, they cannot now.

    It would be great if our negotiators could say to the IMF / EU / Germans " us poor Irish public servants are not as highly paid as you think we are...c'mon give us a break like you did to the greeks, cut our debt a bit "


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Japer wrote: »
    Our average public sector salary - from the hundreds of thousands of public servants in this State - is well publicised by www.cso.ie was €49.5k a few years ago, its just slightly less that that now.
    I bet nobody can find a public service pay equal to or higher than that anywhere in the world. They could not a year or 2 ago, they cannot now.

    It would be great if our negotiators could say to the IMF / EU / Germans " us poor Irish public servants are not as highly paid as you think we are...c'mon give us a break like you did to the greeks, cut our debt a bit "

    And that's your response to the figures posted by Armacha?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The average adult has 0.997 breasts and 0.999 testicles. This isn't really a useful piece of information for comparing people.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    And that's your response to the figures posted by Armacha?
    Armacha needs to realise that "The average adult has 0.997 breasts and 0.999 testicles. This isn't really a useful piece of information for comparing people". Instead of taking isolated groups of employees, he/she needs to find average public sector wage in different countries. The cso does it in Ireland. Bet Armacha cannot find another country with as highly paid a public service as ours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Bet Armacha cannot find another country with as highly paid a public service as ours.

    You are making contentions in this regard, let you prove your own point.
    But I imagine you'll just keep repeating unproven statements, Indo style.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Japer wrote: »
    Armacha needs to realise that "The average adult has 0.997 breasts and 0.999 testicles. This isn't really a useful piece of information for comparing people". Instead of taking isolated groups of employees, he/she needs to find average public sector wage in different countries. The cso does it in Ireland. Bet Armacha cannot find another country with as highly paid a public service as ours.

    So on the one hand you acknowledge the limitation of using the average.........


    Except when it suits you! :D

    Your average is better than his/hers like, is it?!

    What you need to realise is that taking "the average" for the entire PS in any country is not a valid comparison, as the extent of the PS / level of privatisation etc... differ from country to country - so the only valid comparison is between the same job in different countries... which Ardmacha has shown, and you haven't


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    there are thousands of different jobs / grades in the public service. You can of course generalise, like the high level german who made the speech in Ireland about 5 or 6 years ago highliglighting how consultants in Ireland thought a few hundred thousand a year was "micky mouse pay", when consultants in germany worked for 100k.

    C'mon, the average for the PS in any country is of course a valid comparison....I will give you the benefit of .0001 or .03% doubt if you like.......our public service is paid nearly double that of our neighbour the UK, which itself is an industrialised G7 country and one of the ones bailing us out.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    So on the one hand you acknowledge the limitation of using the average.........
    no, because I never would have doubted that "The average adult has 0.997 breasts and 0.999 testicles". If 2 people have a list of things, its common sense to declare the average per person is the total amount of things divided by the number of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    ardmacha wrote: »
    some examples related to this salary survey for Ireland 2012

    from local authorites Senior engineer: €73,223 to €87,117
    Salary survey Director Engineer up to €110,000+
    Manager Engineer up to €90,000

    Dublin City Head of Finance €132,511
    Salary survey Chief Financial Officer (15 + yrs’ exp) €120,000 to €150,000

    Now there may be other jobs where the PS seems a bit high, e.g. Dublin City Personnel officer is paid the same as the Finance guy, although HR salaries generally are as not as high as Finance.

    As always the story is mixed and nuanced, although you'd never think that reading here.

    What price for accountability? It's something that has no relevance in the PS

    Why does the head of Leitrim get paid more than the PM of Spain, one would imagine it is more difficult running a country than a sh1tty county in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Icepick


    ardmacha wrote: »
    OK, so lets look at a sample of jurisdictions, never mind the whole world, 2009 data pre cut.

    secretarial positions, Ireland is not highest
    gvi-30-01.gif

    senior management, Ireland is not the highest
    gvi-27-01.gif

    teachers, Ireland is not the highest
    gvi-25-01.gif

    medical, OK we were highest for consultants, but not for GPs or nurses
    there are feck all consultants, they hardly affect the average
    gvi-26-01.gif

    how about professionals, oddly enough Ireland is not top here either
    gvi-29-01.gif

    Japer, get up the yard.
    Is this a comparison with other bankrupt countries per chance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Only in the public service can you get an increment for simply getting an academic award. It doesn't matter of that academic qualification actually makes a difference to your job or performance, you'll get more money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    This thread is about public-private wage differences in Ireland. If you want to have a cross-national discussion, then start a new thread - but be ready to discuss comparability, etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    ardmacha wrote: »
    The average adult has 0.997 breasts and 0.999 testicles. This isn't really a useful piece of information for comparing people.

    Jayus Ardmacha I am married now but when I was young free and single I felt a bit here and there now considering that your average adult has less than one #i# and I never came across any women with less than two so most men must have no breast:eek:. Now it might be different from a womens but it is still breast. Even Shakespeare knew:confused: that what it was Shylock was looking for said pound of flesh from Antonio breast. Was Antonio the only man with a #i# or two.

    The other part of your post could be correct I have not come across a women with ba##s.

    But then again I presume that you are the teacher :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Only in the public service can you get an increment for simply getting an academic award.

    How do you know? Have you surveyed all private sector organisations in the State?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Japer wrote: »
    I agree our public service is way overpaid and overpensioned, yes.

    My argument is that the higher levels in the Public Service(PS) are overpaid. But people on this forum are vilifying the ordinary Joe who works there. Are you excusing the constant vitriol levelled at the lower paid and frontline workers in the Public Service from people on forums like this who have never worked in the PS so do not know the full story yet accept a lot of the rubbish thats spouted about it.
    I know what the PS is like, I work in it, and I work hard and so do my colleagues. People who are vilifying us don't work there so they really don't know what they are talking about.

    "The beatings will continue until morale improves"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    You are wrong, look at the recent CSO report. It's the lower paid that get overpaid the most. You probably don't want to accept that because it will affect you but that's tough.

    You seem to have an issue with some people getting overpaid but are willing to overlook it for your own situation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Are you excusing the constant vitriol levelled at the lower paid and frontline workers in the Public Service from people on forums like this who have never worked in the PS so do not know the full story yet accept a lot of the rubbish thats spouted about it.
    do not know the full story? Ireland is so small that we all have ( well , when I say we, I mean people who grew up in Ireland and have extended families here ) partners, siblings, children, cousins, best friends, sporting colleagues, old school classmates, nighbours etc who work in the public service. Yes, most people know the full story. Statistics such as those from the cso which reveal that average public sector pay is 49,000 per year just back up what is already known.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Japer wrote: »
    Do public servants in other jurisdictions not sometimes have to work with spoiled little brats, whingers and scumbags too? Why does the public servant in Belmullet or Bandon deserve twice as much as the public servent in Banbridge, Birmingham or Berlin?

    Can you show me where the Irish teacher is paid twice as much as the British or German teacher? Looks like you're just talking unsupportable waffle again - at this stage I'd suggest you check for foam around your mouth and maybe then get yourself to the Doctor in the morning.
    ardmacha wrote: »
    OK, so lets look at a sample of jurisdictions, never mind the whole world, 2009 data pre cut.

    teachers, Ireland is not the highest
    gvi-25-01.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Icepick wrote: »

    Anything more specific, that's like me supplying a link to www.google.ie, there's a rake of stuff on there...?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Icepick wrote: »

    :confused::confused:

    Again, to Jimmmy/Japer :
    Can you provide proof that the current PS cost to the country is 18bn, thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Japer wrote: »
    I'd like better quality at better value for money for the taxpayer.

    The existing public service is very inefficient - way too many public servants, at a very high cost ( 18 billion a year or so ) , compared to a moderate size city abroad which has the same population.

    Most people are coming round to the idea that we don't actually have too many public servants. After 3 years of saying so even your spiritual home at independent news and media have changed their tune. Now they focus on wages only.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    You are wrong, look at the recent CSO report. It's the lower paid that get overpaid the most. You probably don't want to accept that because it will affect you but that's tough.

    You seem to have an issue with some people getting overpaid but are willing to overlook it for your own situation.

    The pension levy skews that.

    But you will say we don't cover our pensions. Will you cover your pension if you retire here? Yet you may come back from london and expect the state to provide you with the 230pw pension even though you will have not paid for it. What about all the other private sector workers who don't pay enough into their pensions. Pay nothing other than PRSI into the state coffers and expect a pension.

    Between pension contributions and PRSI even low paid public servants will have paid about 17% of their wages towards a pension. Yet they will only get about 80 euro more than the 230 everyone else gets.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Sorry, what? Of course the average public sector worker earns the average public sector wage, what are you on about.
    Incorrect. You should learn a little about statistics.

    I'll give you a simple example, which you should be able to understand.

    Say there are 5 workers, and four of them earn 1 unit, and the fifth worker earns 6 units.

    The average pay of the 5 workers is 2 units, but the average worker there does not earn that.

    Look up an article on statistics, read all up on "mean" and "median" and "average" and lots of things I have thankfully long forgotten.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Japer wrote: »
    Incorrect. You should learn a little about statistics.

    I'll give you a simple example, which you should be able to understand.

    Say there are 5 workers, and four of them earn 1 unit, and the fifth worker earns 6 units.

    The average pay of the 5 workers is 2 units, but the average worker there does not earn that.

    Look up an article on statistics, read all up on "mean" and "median" and "average" and lots of things I have thankfully long forgotten.

    Oh I know plenty about statistics, as I use them regularly and have never forgotten about them.

    In your example above what does the average worker earn then?!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Oh I know plenty about statistics, as I use them regularly and have never forgotten about them.

    In your example above what does the average worker earn then?!
    define average worker.


    I pointed out the average public sector wage, as defined and calculated by the CSO.

    You go off on a tangent about "average" worker if you want. Tell everyone what the median is. You are the know all expert , go on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Japer wrote: »
    define average worker. I pointed out the average public sector wage, as defined and calculated by the CSO.

    You go off on a tangent about "average" worker if you want.
    I shouldn't have to, I'm not the one who introduced the term into the conversation:
    Japer wrote: »
    You are picking out what the average public sector worker earns, not the average public sector wage. Look up stastistics, discover the words median and mean....

    My point exactly - there's no such thing as the average worker, so common sense suggests that when you talk about the wage of the "average worker" you actually mean the average wage of the group.

    The same as if you mentioned the height of the average worker, a reasonable person would assume you mean the average height of the group of workers being discussed.

    Which is why, if you know there's no such thing as the average worker, and you appear to be aware of it, the underlined sentence above was a strange thing for you to say.


    Japer wrote: »
    Tell everyone what the median is. You are the know all expert , go on.
    I never professed to be an expert, but I know enough to get by. I'll humour you anyway since you're floundering and median is so simple:
    Lets say there's 295,000 PS employees - the median salary is the one that separates the top from the bottom half when all salaries are arranged in ascending or descending order. (As 295,000 is an even sample population, there's no 1 figure in the middle so you'd actually have to average the 2 central ones to get your median value).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    It seems that some posters missed the previous mod warning. This thread is not about how Irish public service wages stack up against the UK, the Spanish prime minister, etc. It is about the public-private pay gap IN IRELAND. Having deleted two pages of off-topic posting and sniping, I hope folks can stay on topic from here on out; otherwise I don't see much point in keeping this thread open much longer.


This discussion has been closed.
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