Duncan Jenkins and the comms director

Xavi6

Some of you may be familiar with the Duncan Jenkins character from Twitter who appeared to be "in the know" with regard to Liverpool. If not here's his profile -

https://twitter.com/duncanjenkinsFC

Anyway, he's been away for a while and today lifted the lid on why. *If* the below is all true then it doesn't paint a pretty picture for Liverpool's new comms bloke Jen Chang.

It's too long to copy and paste but worth a read for the conspiracy theorists out there -

http://duncanjenkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/such-little-thing-makes-such-big.html

mike65

Ah yes that all reads perfectly reasonably and I'm sure it all happened.

NOT

(the mole was Jay Spearing it's been speculated, as soon as he left for Bolton it all went quiet on the team line ups and such like but of course it could be someone else)

hefferboi

Was there a need for a new thread?:rolleyes:

Xavi6

hefferboi wrote: »

Was there a need for a new thread?:rolleyes:

Is there a reason not to?

Kess73

Guy pretends to have an insider working at a club. Guy gets caught out by club and then claims that he was just a spoofer.


Guy then goes online and makes new insider claims as to dealings between him and employee of club in order to get people talking about him again or following him on twitter again.


Attention seeking Twitter user then gets the attention he craves from suckers who swallow it as fact.

dreamers75

Kess73 wrote: »

Guy pretends to have an insider working at a club. Guy gets caught out by club and then claims that he was just a spoofer.


Guy then goes online and makes new insider claims as to dealings between him and employee of club in order to get people talking about him again or following him on twitter again.


Attention seeking Twitter user then gets the attention he craves from suckers who swallow it as fact.

None of that makes sense

If he was caught out by the club then 2nd part is true in that he did have dealings with club employee, if he did want followers on twitter why not continue posting? Rather than stopping.

Xavi6

Kess73 wrote: »

Guy pretends to have an insider working at a club. Guy gets caught out by club and then claims that he was just a spoofer.


Guy then goes online and makes new insider claims as to dealings between him and employee of club in order to get people talking about him again or following him on twitter again.


Attention seeking Twitter user then gets the attention he craves from suckers who swallow it as fact.

Ah Kess, was hoping you'd be here. As a renowned LFC guru, you must have some info on the whole thing?

By your dismissive post I'm guessing you do, otherwise it's just speculation like the rest and could very well be off the mark?

Seems strange to go all out with a blog post as elaborate as that if it isn't true given the potential legal repurcussions?*



* And that's the reason for the separate thread btw - it's got bigger potential implications for the blogging and social media worlds with regard to what constitutes defamation etc. It's not always just about Liverpool, as much as some would like it to be

JaMarcus Hustle

What is it with Liverpool and dossiers?

amiable

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah Kess, was hoping you'd be here. As a renowned LFC guru, you must have some info on the whole thing?

By your dismissive post I'm guessing you do, otherwise it's just speculation like the rest and could very well be off the mark?

Seems strange to go all out with a blog post as elaborate as that if it isn't true given the potential legal repurcussions?*



* And that's the reason for the separate thread btw - it's got bigger potential implications for the blogging and social media worlds with regard to what constitutes defamation etc. It's not always just about Liverpool, as much as some would like it to be

Yeah I'm sick of Kess claiming to be a Guru.
FFS Kess how dare you post an opinion on Liverpool in the Liverpool thread about your experiences.

mike65

One has to be careful, assuming that "Duncan Jenkins" is a well rounded human being with a sense of self and proportion could be a big error.

I'd imagine that he is in fact an attention seeking type who goes to great ends to look plausible but is in fact a nutter. Pity the dates he claims to have met Chang are for August, I'll guess the Evuna restaurant has CCTV coverage but its probably wiped.

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah Kess, was hoping you'd be here. As a renowned LFC guru, you must have some info on the whole thing?

By your dismissive post I'm guessing you do, otherwise it's just speculation like the rest and could very well be off the mark?

Seems strange to go all out with a blog post as elaborate as that if it isn't true given the potential legal repurcussions?*



* And that's the reason for the separate thread btw - it's got bigger potential implications for the blogging and social media worlds with regard to what constitutes defamation etc. It's not always just about Liverpool, as much as some would like it to be

If it were true that Liverpool had to pay more for Borini as a result of some fella predicting they would sign him, and stating it was a real possibility on Twitter... man... that really doesn't bode well for the football clubs - not even just talking about Liverpool here, Roma are possibly just as reactionary here (or just saw a way to make a quick buck extra).

Does pose an interesting question on the power of social media with football/sports.

As for Cheng (not a fan of him at all) and the threat of banning this fella and his mate, it is a horrid over reaction, and I say that having been opening disgusted by Fergie banning respected journalists from United for accurately report true stories, legitimately.

Blatter

I believe him. If only for the fact that I struggle to believe how somebody could make it up, also he'd be leaving himself open to legal action if he did lie? Chang surely wouldn't want his name to be tarnished in such a fashion if it was untrue.

Xavi6

amiable wrote: »

Yeah I'm sick of Kess claiming to be a Guru.
FFS Kess how dare you post an opinion on Liverpool in the Liverpool thread about your experiences.

Not sure what point you're making here caller. Kess is well respected and has connections around the club so it's perfectly reasonably to ask if he knows anything.

Chucky the tree

Blatter wrote: »

I believe him. If only for the fact that I struggle to believe how somebody could make it up, also he'd be leaving himself open to legal action if he did lie? Chang surely wouldn't want his name to be tarnished in such a fashion if it was untrue.

I find it hard to believe the words of a chronic attention seeker tbh. Not just on this issue but any. also he'd said he has no recording of what Jen said in person so even if it's true he can still be sued for libel. However in a case of his word against changs I'm not sure who'd win if it's even possible.

Mitch Connor

mike65 wrote: »

One has to be careful, assuming that "Duncan Jenkins" is a well rounded human being with a sense of self and proportion could be a big error.

I'd imagine that he is in fact an attention seeking type who goes to great ends to look plausible but is in fact a nutter. Pity the dates he claims to have met Chang are for August, I'll guess the Evuna restaurant has CCTV coverage but its probably wiped.

If people REALLY wanted to find proof of what he claims, there might be a few people around that could check the phone records. Also, there would be a track of emails easily possible. Whomever the real Duncan is, is using GMAIL, and google don't delete your emails. If Cheng sent an email, it could easily be found.

Not saying it is or is not true, but your post seems to imply that the guy is probably lying due to CCTV footage likely not being available.

Mr Alan

Really? I couldn't really give a **** & am not quite sure why anyone would.

If what Jenkins has said is true, that he cost the club money, then I'm glad the club went out to find out who he is and stop him? If Jenkins is lying, then it's all a moot point.

His claim that it was all just guess work from him doesn't really hold any weight whatsoever, he got all the team lineups last season spot on way before they appeared anywhere else. I was sceptical initially, but towards the tail end of the season, there was some non-standard selections which he called perfectly.

Kess73

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah Kess, was hoping you'd be here. As a LFC guru, you must have some info on the whole thing?

By your dismissive post I'm guessing you do, otherwise it's just speculation like the rest and could very well be off the mark?

Seems strange to go all out with a blog post as elaborate as that if it isn't true given the potential legal repurcussions?*



* And that's the reason for the separate thread btw - it's got bigger potential implications for the blogging and social media worlds with regard to what defamation etc.

Given that the guy who uses the Jenkins Persona has already come out and claimed that he was making up his "exclusives", I see no reason to take anything else he claims to be true as anything other than more potential fiction, in fact it would be quite foolish to take anything he puts up at face value given that he could again claim it was done in character and not as himself.

If you have read some of the other stuff that he came out with over the summer, then you would see that posting stuff that came across as being very detailed is the norm for him.


Even if some of what he has posted is true, then he catches himself out on other stuff. Nowt more than an attention seeker with a touch of the Walter Mitties imho, and one whose bs appears to have caught up with him.


Delighted to hear that you were hoping I would post as it is always nice to chat with the truly impartial

Soups123

hefferboi wrote: »

Was there a need for a new thread?:rolleyes:

I'm not a pool fan, i thought that was a good ready and worthy of its own thread. I'd never have read this if confined to the pool thread.

Shocking if through all the same

IvySlayer

Well let's count, everyone who doubts it has something in common. If this happened at Manchester United how many of these would be slating the club.

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I find it hard to believe the words of a chronic attention seeker tbh. Not just on this issue but any. also he'd said he has no recording of what Jen said in person so even if it's true he can still be sued for libel.

There is, if it is true, a third party familiar with the situation on the side of both Chang and this Sean fella - if it came to a court case, they could be called and could possibly corroborate either way.

mike65

I'm a lifelong Liverpool supporter. Duncan...well, he's Oldham til he dies

Duncan (koptalk) Oldham anyone?

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really? I couldn't really give a **** & am not quite sure why anyone would.

If what Jenkins has said is true, that he cost the club money, then I'm glad the club went out to find out who he is and stop him? If Jenkins is lying, then it's all a moot point.

His claim that it was all just guess work from him doesn't really hold any weight whatsoever, he got all the team lineups last season spot on way before they appeared anywhere else. I was sceptical initially, but towards the tail end of the season, there was some non-standard selections which he called perfectly.

The team selection thing proves nothing though Alan. There are a few guys on RAWK, just to use one site, that have an uncanny track record for team selections hours before the teams get announced, and I am pretty sure that there is a thread on RAWK that highlighted how the team selections put up by the Duncan Jenkins persona always seemed to lag an hour or two behind the RAWK posters with the good records.


Would pretty much agree with the rest of what you said though. Really must be a slow news day for this to be a story.

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really? I couldn't really give a **** & am not quite sure why anyone would.

If what Jenkins has said is true, that he cost the club money, then I'm glad the club went out to find out who he is and stop him? If Jenkins is lying, then it's all a moot point.

His claim that it was all just guess work from him doesn't really hold any weight whatsoever, he got all the team lineups last season spot on way before they appeared anywhere else. I was sceptical initially, but towards the tail end of the season, there was some non-standard selections which he called perfectly.

Because IF it's true, then it's pretty disgusting behaviour from a top end LFC employee.

DundalkDuffman

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

What is it with Liverpool and Dossena?

FYP

amiable

Blatter wrote: »

Because IF it's true, then it's pretty disgusting behaviour from a top end LFC employee.

Agreed but how is anyone to know if it is true or not?

mike65

On team line ups, on the Liverpool thread we've been using getty images from the training sessions and have got them right using the bib colours. Maybe Jenkins just copped on to them earlier than anyone else.

Blatter

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I find it hard to believe the words of a chronic attention seeker tbh. Not just on this issue but any. also he'd said he has no recording of what Jen said in person so even if it's true he can still be sued for libel. However in a case of his word against changs I'm not sure who'd win if it's even possible.

As said already, it shouldn't be too hard to track emails/phone calls etc

I suppose we'll see whether Chang issues a response or tries to take legal action. Would be pretty surprised if he ignored such an attack on his character and professionalism if it was all BS.

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

Duncan (koptalk) Oldham anyone?

Thought that was very obvious myself. Given his track record in the UK and his brushes with the law using many different names, he would seem an obvious suspect.



Mike you might be able to remember a claim made by Mr Oldham some years ago about how a club official was hounding him, and how he had no problem starting a site using a persona to air those claims. This Jenkins thing seems to be amazingly similar and I would imagine it will end up having a similar legal outcome.

Xavi6

Kess73 wrote: »

Given that the guy who uses the Jenkins Persona has already come out and claimed that he was making up his "exclusives", I see no reason to take anything else he claims to be true as anything other than more potential fiction, in fact it would be quite foolish to take anything he puts up at face value given that he could again claim it was done in character and not as himself.

If you have read some of the other stuff that he came out with over the summer, then you would see that posting stuff that came across as being very detailed is the norm for him.


Even if some of what he has posted is true, then he catches himself out on other stuff. Nowt more than an attention seeker with a touch of the Walter Mitties imho, and one whose bs appears to have caught up with him.


Delighted to hear that you were hoping I would post as it is always nice to chat with the truly impartial

Funny thing is I don't care which club it is so trying to pin it as a cheap shot at Poolwont hold water this time. As a blogger/writer who studied media law I'm interested in it from a legal perspective, hence why I thought it deserving of its own thread and discussion rather than being buried in the Pool one.

Cheers for the response anyway, I've read all his stuff and it's hard to believe he didn't have a 'mole' of sorts but at the same time, he appears clever enough to not get himself sued for a crazy hoax.

Blatter

amiable wrote: »

Agreed but how is anyone to know if it is true or not?

We probably never will know for sure, but as I said in the post above - it'd be odd for Cheng to ignore such blatant public attacks on his character if it was all BS.

Chucky the tree

Blatter wrote: »

As said already, it shouldn't be too hard to track emails/phone calls etc

I suppose we'll see whether Chang issues a response or tries to take legal action. Would be pretty surprised if he ignored such an attack on his character and professionalism if it was all BS.

Well not really. They could have been emailing and calling each other. However the actually conversations in person could be completely different to what "duncan" claims. That's were Duncan claims Jen said most of the stuff that looks pretty terrible. Jen might have simply asked him to stop and he said no and then that was it rather then the threatening "Duncan".

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

I've read all his stuff and it's hard to believe he didn't have a 'mole' of sorts but at the same time

The team sheets threw me, but I never believed a word that 'Duncan Jenkins' said to be honest. Quite clearly it was someone having a laugh, never a serious account, so would never have considered he had a mole of any kind - just figured he regurgitated information he found elsewhere.

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well not really. They could have been emailing and calling each other. However the actually conversations in person could be completely different to what "duncan" claims. That's were Duncan claims Jen said most of the stuff that looks pretty terrible. Jen might have simply asked him to stop and he said no and then that was it rather then the threatening "Duncan".

what about the third party.

If what is being said is true, then there is a third party who spoke to Chang and Sean, who seemingly was aware of the threats being made.

Again, IF true, but that is where the evidence of the threats would likely be.

EDIT: Ok, his name may not be sean - convinced i saw the name Sean in one of the emails, but looking back at it now it isn't there, so I have gone mad on that one.

Mr Alan

Blatter wrote: »

Because IF it's true, then it's pretty disgusting behaviour from a top end LFC employee.

Really?

I'm not really convinced tbh. I couldn't really care. If the fella cost Liverpool money, I'm glad we went out of our way to try and stop him. Cheng said a couple of mean things in the process? Couldn't really care tbh.

Kess73

Xavi6 wrote: »

Funny thing is I don't care which club it is so trying to pin it as a cheap shot at Poolwont hold water this time. As a blogger/writer who studied media law I'm interested in it from a legal perspective, hence why I thought it deserving of its own thread and discussion rather than being buried in the Pool one.

Cheers for the response anyway, I've read all his stuff and it's hard to believe he didn't have a 'mole' of sorts but at the same time, he appears clever enough to not get himself sued for a crazy hoax.

If you are really interested in media law and all that, I suggest you do a little digging on the name that Mike65 brought up. It might lead you on a bit of a trip as to just how much a person or persons can claim as fact online and how much money can be made from such claims.


Koptalkinsider is another site worth looking at from a legal pov. If you are studying or have studied media law, then I am sure the site will prove to be an eyebrow lifter in terms of claims made versus legal action taken etc.


I am also sure that you are aware of the difficulties of taking legal action against a fictional persona using UK law, even when you have an individual claiming to possibly have used that persona.

mike65

Can't believe he'd be that obvious and yet....

opr

Kess73 wrote: »

The team selection thing proves nothing though Alan. There are a few guys on RAWK, just to use one site, that have an uncanny track record for team selections hours before the teams get announced, and I am pretty sure that there is a thread on RAWK that highlighted how the team selections put up by the Duncan Jenkins persona always seemed to lag an hour or two behind the RAWK posters with the good records.

Would pretty much agree with the rest of what you said though. Really must be a slow news day for this to be a story.

Don't think so as even on rawk last year he would generally have always have been the first with the teams news. I remember one of the Liverpool staff even tweeting one week he had posted the team news before the squad had even arrived at the stadium one week. He claims to have been copying them from a quiet Liverpool forum which doesn't have many users.

If he wants to prove his claims that he had no insider then it should be relatively easy in that all he has to do is provide links to said forum showing the posts made before he posted the team news on twitter.

Opr

smcelhinney

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ok, his name may not be sean - convinced i saw the name Sean in one of the emails, but looking back at it now it isn't there, so I have gone mad on that one.

One of the comments alluded to a name being in the last email. He may have rectified it.

Mitch Connor

smcelhinney wrote: »

One of the comments alluded to a name being in the last email. He may have rectified it.

Yeah - i think it is this one:

Jen Chang Jen.Chang@xxxxxx.xxx
Aug 24


to me
****

I saw your latest tweet. Disappointing.

Are you reneging?
____________________________
Would put money that was Sean before ****

Vex Willems

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah - i think it is this one:

Jen Chang Jen.Chang@xxxxxx.xxx
Aug 24


to me
****

I saw your latest tweet. Disappointing.

Are you reneging?
____________________________
Would put money that was Sean before ****

It was

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really?

I'm not really convinced tbh. I couldn't really care. If the fella cost Liverpool money, I'm glad we went out of our way to try and stop him. Cheng said a couple of mean things in the process? Couldn't really care tbh.

But the reality of the situation could be some nobody spouting BS on twitter gets chased down and threatened by the club - how is that reasonable. Chang, seemingly, himself admitted he could find no evidence of any contact with any mole.

With the amount of crap on twitter, clubs taking it this seriously and threatening people when they admit they have no proof of anything, is simply not on.

People give out about the LitterallyJamie and BigSam accounts being legally shut down, saying those involved need a sense of humour - how is this any different? Why is Liverpool going after a fan for spoofing different?

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

Can't believe he'd be that obvious and yet....

I think that being that obvious is almost a trademark at this stage. I think that he may not be overly well known by supporters of other clubs if at all, but the guy is well known in the UK (as I am sure you well know) and very well known amongst LFC (and Newcastle) supporters of a certain age.

I am also sure you know how hated he is in Liverpool, and how to this day he is still making a nice bit of cash off of the name of Liverpool FC, close to 20 years since he started.

witnessrenegade

Load of ****e, this is what annoys me about being a LFC fan, it's like a season of X Files with the amount of theory's and ****etalk

Kess73

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But the reality of the situation could be some nobody spouting BS on twitter gets chased down and threatened by the club - how is that reasonable. Chang, seemingly, himself admitted he could find no evidence of any contact with any mole.

With the amount of crap on twitter, clubs taking it this seriously and threatening people when they admit they have no proof of anything, is simply not on.

People give out about the LitterallyJamie and BigSam accounts being legally shut down, saying those involved need a sense of humour - how is this any different? Why is Liverpool going after a fan for spoofing different?

If it is who it is rumoured to be (or an associate) than it would be the club going after an individual who has been using the club's name to make money for years. An individual who charged money for "signed" club items, who made claims of actual players being involved with one of his pay sites, who set up "charity" collections on sites that had the club name and crest on them, and so on.

Using a persona to make claims is common for this person and even using a persona to make claims on behalf of another persona has been done.

I expect the Duncan J and Sean personas to vanish once a blaze of publicity is achieved, and in a year or two to see the familar claim of a person whose online persona is being hassled by a LFC official.

Anyone familar with LFC websites may remember a few years back when yet another persona was being defended by someone who claimed to have sat down with a LFC official and been warned off only for it to turn out that there was never a face to face and that the person behind the persona was just another persona.

I really don't think that this is going to turn out any differently, and the reason it has more legs now than it did some five or six years ago is the explosion in social media and the resulting increase in exposure. Reeks of the same stunt only to a much more massive audience.

_blank_

witnessrenegade wrote: »

Load of ****e, this is what annoys me about being a LFC fan, it's like a season of X Files with the amount of theory's and ****etalk

Decent entertainment for the rest of us though

Jayob10

He either has a mole who gave him details such as line ups, and in turn "Jenkins" went crazy letting on he was ITK on all things LFC (when he hadn't a clue)

or

He was very elaborate in managing to hoax everyone, probably building up personal relationships with respected RAWK users (using that term very loosely) who would vouch for him and quote his nonsense as fact making the more impressionable users infer the same

My guess is he had some extremely low level source, he got a few things spot on and enjoyed the acclaim he got in the online forums. He then went overboard letting on he knew about various transfer deals etc... when his source was really only good for stuff like team line ups etc... maybe a security guy at melwood who sees the clipboard on a friday or something like that :cool:

Either way, he deserves a kick in the arse for being ridiculous. He obviously has a screw loose to some extent for going to such elaborate lengths to sound credible.
Showing correspondence from Chang is probably an extension of this, making him feel important in some kind of weird way.

Baffling the amount of "ITK" wannabes on the go, RAWK is full of them. And the majority do believe they are in the know thats the scary thing. Go and study journalism or something, god damn twitter

anyway rant over. good enough for him.

_blank_

Is this the same person who ran that "Koptalk" website a few years ago? The subscription service thing?

If so, total loon.

Leiva

Quick someone get the "We support Chang" T-Shirts printing.

Kess73

Des wrote: »

Is this the same person who ran that "Koptalk" website a few years ago? The subscription service thing?

If so, total loon.

Nobody is saying is is defo him, but.....;)





And if you know of him then you have a fair idea about his track record online over the past 10 to 15 years and how this current "story" is pretty much a remake of an earlier fairy tale. You will also be aware of just how easily that individual made claims using the names of people like Kenny Dalglish, Tony Evans, Robbie Fowler etc and tried to pass off made up stuff as direct quotes from those people, and to this day still has similar stuff being said on his pay site by online personas.

Tony Evans even had to go as far as to publically distance himself from the claims that were being made in his name on that site in 2010. Soon after that happened, the individual running the site moved to Spain and now runs the site from there.

homerjay2005

IvySlayer wrote: »

If this happened at Manchester United how many of these would be slating the club.

this thread would be started about 15 times and there'd be 1000 posts already on the one that wasnt locked. It would end up with Evra getting a five game ban by the FA.

Des wrote: »

Is this the same person who ran that "Koptalk" website a few years ago? The subscription service thing?

If so, total loon.

You mean Cheng or the blogger!?

Leiva wrote: »

Quick someone get the "We support Chang" T-Shirts printing.

get onto Stevie G and Kenny and your sorted, they have previous....i hope they get that "internet, serious business" image and replace your mans head with one of Cheng..

klose

mike65 wrote: »

Duncan (koptalk) Oldham anyone?

I came across him the other week on YouTube. What a fat lump! An idiot to boot too, I remember him saying if he owned lfc he'd build a 100k seater stadium and bus disadvantaged children in to fill empty seats :rolleyes: