Kilkenny CoCo to be merged with Carlow

road_high

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-to-announce-further-local-cuts-570272.html

All for this myself. Been saying it for ages we have far too many local authroities in Ireland. Hopefully in time it will lead to cost savings and efficiencies in the local authrorities.
A new county concil of about 150k people should deliver better services rather than wasteful duplication of admin.

Cabaal

Might upset some in the city though,
For years I've heard many a county person complain about all the money being spent in the city ripping up footpaths to put down similar footpaths.

Then we have the joke that was taking away the likes of all the flowers and nice chain railings outside the court house to replace with shiny metal bollards which look awful.

Anyway, sharing with carlow may upset some people

road_high

Cabaal wrote: »

Might upset some in the city though,
For years I've heard many a county person complain about all the money being spent in the city ripping up footpaths to put down similar footpaths.

Then we have the joke that was taking away the likes of all the flowers and nice chain railings outside the court house to replace with shiny metal bollards which look awful.

Anyway, sharing with carlow may upset some people

Never heard this myself but in fairness that's where the rates are coming from too.

Indeed.They're will no doubt be feathers ruffled as to which town the HQ shall be as well

foxcoverteddy

Why Carlow of all places, why not Waterford? Yes sacking loads of staff will save money, but then they can go on the social and claim, so where is the saving?
The new council are going to get higher salaries for taking on more responsibility and of course they will need more expertise so even more courses with expenses.
Whilst Kilkenny has only itself to blame, being a laughing stock to the residents, like the upgrade of the ring road, how much has that cost?
Then the inability to actually get a proper ring road, the lack of a shopping facility in the old mart, not more shops, well we do not have a large store, the market cross is another joke.
We have Dunnes, what else, yes we have tourist type shops in the high st, great for the bloody tourists what about the people who live here, these shops are not the cheapest.
So Enda will achieve exactly what?
Hey the parking facility at the council offices could be a boon, what about a Coach park and bus station, the gateway to paradise

road_high

Because it's a far better fit geographically and we are lumped together for most state things.

Cabaal

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Why Carlow of all places, why not Waterford?

As already pointed out, Carlow is a better fit geographically with Kilkenny then Kilkenny is to Carlow. Also we already share stuff with them.

Yes sacking loads of staff will save money, but then they can go on the social and claim, so where is the saving?

So your other suggestion is we do nothing and instead have lots of needless overlapping jobs in all the tiny councils throughout the country?

The new council are going to get higher salaries for taking on more responsibility and of course they will need more expertise so even more courses with expenses.

Speculation on your part, there's nothing to suggest they'll be paid more and night to suggest they'll need more expertise....all it means is instead of two small councils covering a area you'll have one and alot of overlapping depts can be got rid of.

Whilst Kilkenny has only itself to blame, being a laughing stock to the residents, like the upgrade of the ring road, how much has that cost?

Upgrading of the ringroad was needed, and is much welcome good use of money. more lanes to better handle traffic which are working and they are installing a footpath the full length of it also.

Just curious, do you drive and if so do you regularly drive that road at peak times...because it doesn't sound like you do as anyone that does that I've talked to has welcomed the improvements.

yes we have tourist type shops in the high st, great for the bloody tourists what about the people who live here, these shops are not the cheapest.

The shops are aimed at tourists! They are not massively intended for locals. Like it or not Kilkenny makes alot of money off of tourists and we'd be idiots to not provide for them.

So Enda will achieve exactly what?

err, costs savings...are you living under a rock?

Hey the parking facility at the council offices could be a boon, what about a Coach park and bus station, the gateway to paradise

and now with all due respect you are talking nonsense

Sully

I really do hope he goes through with this but does a good job of reforming. Lumping them together wont work - he needs to ensure they are all represented the same.

road_high

Thanks Cabaal. I hadn't the energy to run through everything that was so utterly wrong and non-sensical with that post. The drivel some people post up here is un real.

foxcoverteddy

Well Cabaal it is obvious you will not be losing your job, yes there is considerable overlap, roll on the social, nice one.
Ylou managed to poo poo the increase in the salaries of the new council officials, the country is up the creek and the newly appointed TD's upped their salaries straight away,, so it is obvious the same is going to happe, unless you are one of the elitist group and trying to play down what will transpire.
Always the professionals will take care of themselves.
Of course motorists are welcoming the improvements to the ring road, and you avoided that one as well, what did it cost? No one is saying it needed doing, in fact it has made it in to a road for today, and not for the future, it is still poor by international standards, do we not need a roundabout for Woodies, it was a crap design.
Oh yes a footpath, bravo, we have not got round to providing the hapless pedestrian with safe crossing facilities, so you think running the gaunlet is okay.
The car park at the council offices,what are you going to do with that?

foxcoverteddy

Yes you are right some people do write utter nonsense, then some people who read the posts are not much better

Sully

I assume because they are public service jobs they will be moved around other PS jobs? Not sure how many exactly are employed and councilors tend to get a nice retirement package.

road_high

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Yes you are right some people do write utter nonsense, then some people who read the posts are not much better

On you're basing that on what exactly?

foxcoverteddy

Sully you are probably right, but if we are moving people around what are we saving? It all sounds good, unfortunately only the private sector workers get the raw deal.
It is fine for the holier than thou people to talk about saving, if someone is made redundant who pays the social money?

road_high

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Sully you are probably right, but if we are moving people around what are we saving? It all sounds good, unfortunately only the private sector workers get the raw deal.
It is fine for the holier than thou people to talk about saving, if someone is made redundant who pays the social money?

The state because firstly their dole is far less than what we are borrowing form the IMF to pay them to do a job that is not necssary.
Then the private sector should step in and provide the service and/or the person uses their sills in the private sector. The public service as it's stands is one big social work scheme. But paid exhoribatantly.

foxcoverteddy

Is it a general consenus of opinion that all public service workers are a waste of time, surely not, come on have a bit of feeling for people, do you really want to see people made redundant, okay some may be near to retiring others might not have hope in hell of getting another job.
Put yourself in their shoes the aspirations for the future, gone, and why?
We have had politicians in power who were unable to do the job we paid them to do, we had officials who were cheats and milked the system, we still have politicians milking the system.
Along comes enda we will make savings, yes put people out of work, brilliant economics.
The unions may well have been a root cause of problems, at one time there was a need, but they went too far, one has to look across the channel, the coal miner's, gone, the steel worker's not many left, the docks, same again, the railways.
There is seldom a happy medium, the world is changing at a rapid pace, however there will always be a need for basic services, this is where local councils excel, okay some pratt will want to privatise things,
If we are going to pay property tax the council should take over waste collection, it is not an area where profit should be the motive.
Water and sewage, council, street lighting council, road repairs etc, council.
So once we merge how much is it going to cost to change all the logo's on the fleet of vehicles and providing clothing with the new council name, how much for a new coat of arms.
One item forgotten the tourist, well perhaps Carlow will become the new shopping hub so that we can concentrate on providing facilities for the tourist, but do not forget who is paying, yes the locals, us.
Yes, tourists bring money into the town, but how far do they go, what is the average time a coach is parked.
And Mfitzy, I look in the mirror, it answers your question.

road_high

The Council should take over waste collection....even though the private sector does it cheaper, quicker and more efficiently. You clearly live in a state cushioned bubble. Makes about as much sense as the rest of your post to be honest.

road_high

P.S. Foxy, I did not meant to come across as rude and dismissive it's just I really strongly disagree about the need for public service and especially councils.
They should be run as vital services like the ones you mention and not as huge (expensive i.e my taxes) public works scheme keeping people in (very well paid) jobs replicated allover the country.
Every job in the public service needs to be scrutinised for value for money. Replicating services in small neighbouring counties and paying staff to do the same job closeby is obscene waste as far as I'm concerned.

foxcoverteddy

Unfortunately Mfitzy you cannot have one without the other, I take it you are hitting out at the top people, my famous professionals, they my friend will defend their position to the very last, and also so called buddies.
The professional classes will suceed and will have no problem making the average council worker redundant, all part of the process.
It is akin to accountant's, they can rip a business apart, but they will get paid.
If we are going to make a blueprint for a new Ireland, forget old counties, draw new ones, so the Kilkenny if that is what we want to call it takes parts of the old Wexford, Laois and parts of Carlow. Equally parts of Kilkenny will go to Waterford, Tipperary, Carlow, the map of Ireland should be changed dramatically, forget the old day's.
It is like Dr rielly he can't remember where the new health places are going, typicasl professional.
Your ideal state dear Mfitzy is a lovely dream, utopia doesn't exist but it is fun giving opinions.
Of course waste collection cannot be done by councils, well it can but someone is making money, lots of money, an old Yorkshire saying "where there is muck there's brass.
Have a nice weekend.

slimjimmc

The thread title states "Kilkenny CoCo to be merged with Carlow" as if it's a statement of fact but the article linked by the op refers to the scrapping of town councils and the merger of councils within the same county. I'm curious to know how the OP concludes that county councils in different counties are to be merged.

Parish pump politics

The merger of Kilkenny and Carlow with the headquarters in Kilkenny city is the first step in Phil Hogans strategic plan to develop Kilkenny as the regions capital. While the Waterford, Carlow and Wexford representatives are sitting on their hands Hogan forges ahead with his own agenda.  James Reilly and the health centres or Howlin and the VEC in Wexford are nothing compared to Hogans stroke this week. Removing the City status from Waterford leaving them without even an urban council is pure class. The development of the NUIM university campus  and the enlarged population with the assimilation of the Carlow now places Kilkenny in pole position to become Capital of the South East.   Support for the Minister is what's needed from his own and not the likes of what went on in Nolan park. The ultimate victory will be jobs for Kilkenny.

foxcoverteddy

Mfitzy said some people write rubbish, are we to assume Hogan is trying to emulate Henry Shefflin.
I would have thought that he will declare Kilkenny as an Independent state and place himself as emperor, sort of Julius Caesar of the Independent state of Kilkenny.
Luckily we have a high percentage of Bulls and Cows, so we could well be up to our necks in.........................bn
The man is a liability.

road_high

Parish pump politics wrote: »

The merger of Kilkenny and Carlow with the headquarters in Kilkenny city is the first step in Phil Hogans strategic plan to develop Kilkenny as the regions capital. While the Waterford, Carlow and Wexford representatives are sitting on their hands Hogan forges ahead with his own agenda.  James Reilly and the health centres or Howlin and the VEC in Wexford are nothing compared to Hogans stroke this week. Removing the City status from Waterford leaving them without even an urban council is pure class. The development of the NUIM university campus  and the enlarged population with the assimilation of the Carlow now places Kilkenny in pole position to become Capital of the South East.   Support for the Minister is what's needed from his own and not the likes of what went on in Nolan park. The ultimate victory will be jobs for Kilkenny.

I dunno if this post is for real or not but if true your user name is very appropriate.

Who said the HQ would be in Kilkenny anyhow? That has not been even announced. We need collaboration (and cost savings) rather than this kind of confrontation. Presumably if Limerick, Galway Waterford loose their city councils then KK Borough Council is surely history. So I don't see how that is a good thing for Kilkenny or indeed any effect on Kilkenny.
We need to develop Kilkenny I agree but not merely at the expense of neighbours?

Cabaal

Parish pump politics wrote: »

The merger of Kilkenny and Carlow with the headquarters in Kilkenny city is the first step in Phil Hogans strategic plan to develop Kilkenny as the regions capital.

Nothing but tin foil hat nonsense,

Either link to a actual factual reliable source to backup your claim or your just talking about a conspiracy theory that some people in Waterford have...again its also baseless.

Its worth keeping in mind that the Kilkenny will become a centre over Waterford started before the Kilkenny Carlow merge was mentioned or the Galway city and county merge was mentioned.

Basically some people in waterford put on their tinfoil hats and got all paranoid when they were told Waterford city and county would be merged and they got all paranoid thinking waterford would loose its city status.....this of course is completely baseless and there is no evidence to backup this paranoid theory.

Einhard

foxcoverteddy- are you proposing that the government keep people in jobs where they're not needed simply because it wouldn't be nice to put them on the dole? That's not the government's role, and it's certainly not what I want my tax money spent on. And by the way, I'm a public servant. The notion that I should be kept on even if there's no work for me to do is nonsensical to be honest.

Bards

Einhard wrote: »

foxcoverteddy- are you proposing that the government keep people in jobs where they're not needed simply because it wouldn't be nice to put them on the dole? That's not the government's role, and it's certainly not what I want my tax money spent on. And by the way, I'm a public servant. The notion that I should be kept on even if there's no work for me to do is nonsensical to be honest.

They've done it before, look at the over staffed Dept. of Agriculture, how many of those come in and do absoleutly nothing every day apart form read the paper?

It was even muted that the excess employees could be re-trained as Tester Drivers for the Long queues at Testing Centres before the RSA took it over - go figure?

road_high

Yep,

Sadly I can see no real reform with this govt either. Howlin could not get (practically zero) savings from public sector allowances and would not touch the unions so I'm not sure we will see much savings from the amalgamtions. It's a longer term thing perhaps, but the current workers will be protected to the hilt.

Dozen Wicked Words

So has the OP title been confirmed as fact or is it still presumption.

Threadhead

KCLR just announced that Kilkenny Borough Council and Carlow and Bagenalstown Town Councils are to be abolished.

road_high

Threadhead wrote: »

KCLR just announced that Kilkenny Borough Council and Carlow and Bagenalstown Town Councils are to be abolished.

Good...Kilkenny Borough is a pretty pointless affair as it covers the city boundaries as from 100+ years ago.
I think the new local authority for Carlow/KK will work pretty well. A "county" of 150k ish population in a fairly compact geographical area will hopefully lead to more efficient deliver of services through greater scale.

Cabaal

dooferoaks wrote: »

So has the OP title been confirmed as fact or is it still presumption.

yes
http://www.thejournal.ie/town-councils-cut-phil-hogan-local-government-reform-533422-Jul2012/

Dozen Wicked Words

Cabaal wrote: »

yes
http://www.thejournal.ie/town-councils-cut-phil-hogan-local-government-reform-533422-Jul2012/

That link doesn't actually confirm the merger of Carlow and Kilkenny does it? Unless I am missing something.