Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

The_Conductor

Its curious how its dropped off the radar- it rarely features in the media, or even in Department releases, lately.......

Oldtree

Giving the proximity of the UK coast and the fact that this disease is wind borne, I'm surprised at the lack of newly infected hedgerow sites along our eastern seaboard. If only there was a map of infected sites!!!

I also have to wonder at the lack of increase in infected sites here, compared with the viral like spread if the disease in the uk. Is this a real number or a lack of investigation on our part?

NI has no wider environment cases reported, again I have to wonder?

tabby aspreme

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its curious how its dropped off the radar- it rarely features in the media, or even in Department releases, lately.......

The department certainly don't want to highlight ash dieback , considering they sat back and allowed imports to continue till 2012

tabby aspreme

Oldtree wrote: »

Giving the proximity of the UK coast and the fact that this disease is wind borne, I'm surprised at the lack of newly infected hedgerow sites along our eastern seaboard. If only there was a map of infected sites!!!

I also have to wonder at the lack of increase in infected sites here, compared with the viral like spread if the disease in the uk. Is this a real number or a lack of investigation on our part?

NI has no wider environment cases reported, again I have to wonder?

Was there some research that concluded the spores travelled no more than 40kms in the wind.

I would like to know what criteria have to be met before imported trees are considered to be a high risk of carrying infection and are removed

manjou

Maybe the dept have decided that there isent alot they can do to stop it spreading and will let nature take its course.

Oldtree

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Was there some research that concluded the spores travelled no more than 40kms in the wind.

If memory serves it was suggested from a study that 30 km was a reasonable disease spread distance per year, but I am unsure as to how any study could limit the spread of wind bourne disease to a specific distance, given wind and weather variability. It seems to have covered Europe in a very short space of time.

The FC site currently states this:

Local spread, up to some tens of miles, may be by wind. Over longer distances the risk of disease spread is most likely to be through the movement of diseased ash plants.

Looking at the FC map from last year the concentration of wider environment infected sites (red dots) is clustered around the south east of England, its nearest point to the continent. This suggests to me a spread of the disease from the continent by wind. If that is the case then it is easy to imagine the disease crossing the Irish Sea or coming south from NI, or even coming from the continent given favorable conditions.

It is very interesting to see how the additional 281 wider environment sites recorded in the UK this year (see below from the FC site) fit onto the above map. It is also interesting to note that the UK (excluding NI) has had a doubling of discovered wider environment infected sites this year, on the previous 3 years total. it is also interesting to see an aparent spread of the disease across the UK in wider environment sites from east to west over the last few years. It does not look like it is limited to the 30 or 40 km mentioned above.

Oldtree

tabby aspreme wrote: »

The department certainly don't want to highlight ash dieback , considering they sat back and allowed imports to continue till 2012

manjou wrote: »

Maybe the dept have decided that there isent alot they can do to stop it spreading and will let nature take its course.

Ireland is a letigious country

manjou

the prevailing wind will blow mostly east to west so spores would be blowen back eastwards. The same has happened to the schmulimberg diease it did not spread as widely as anticapted mainly because of the wind direction.

Oldtree

In the context of the south of England 2014 displayed on the map, its clear that the infection rate is widespread as compared to other parts of the UK. The number of recently planted infected sites (yellow dots) in that area at that time is minimal and does not lead to an assumption that the recently planted infected sites (yellow dots) they are the source of the spread of the disease to the wider environment infection sites, given the vast number of red dots in comparison.

manjou wrote: »

the prevailing wind will blow mostly east to west so spores would be blowen back eastwards.

While in a liner sense the prevaling wind is of a south westerly direction, it is not a constant and a look at any weather chart will show that weather patterns are cyclic in nature, thus a storm passing over the south of the UK could easily rotate the spores back up from the continent

manjou wrote: »

The same has happened to the schmulimberg diease it did not spread as widely as anticapted mainly because of the wind direction.

I know nothing of that disease and would be very interested in reading how the authour of the paper arrived at that conclusion.

Shrap

Is there any information, anecdotal or official, about what is currently happening to plantations found to have die-back? Are they being clear-felled and burned on site (as was the threat when it came here, I seem to remember) or can they now be left stand, seeing as it's in the hedgerows and there will be no holding it back (by the looks of what's happening in the UK)?

I have a 2.8h ash wood, which was planted by the previous owner 25 years ago. There's a nice understory coming up and I've been planting a more diverse selection than just ash after thinning, but I'm concerned that I might be throwing time and money at a wood that might have to be clear-felled in the next decade or so. There doesn't appear to be any official advice on how plantation owners should proceed.....

Oldtree

Shrap wrote: »

Is there any information, anecdotal or official, about what is currently happening to plantations found to have die-back? Are they being clear-felled and burned on site (as was the threat when it came here, I seem to remember) or can they now be left stand, seeing as it's in the hedgerows and there will be no holding it back (by the looks of what's happening in the UK)?

It's a scorched earth policy here for infected sites at the moment, and associated tree batch planted sites, as well as adjacent hedgrows, as I understand it, roots and all.

According to the Minister this work involved the uprooting and deep burial of circa 2 million ash trees since late 2012.

Infected ash has also been destroyed by deep burial or burning in privately owned non-forestry locations

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/almost-700hd-of-ash-forestry-destroyed-due-to-ash-dieback/

There have been claims of a slowdown in the spread here, but that may be just the discovery of imported tree infected sites has petered out, the wider environment spread is unknown/unquantified here as yet, imo. All hedgerow infected sites here have been associated with planted infected sites. Good news but still implies that we did this to ourselves and the infection does spread from infected planted sites to the wider environment.

This previous post on this thread may interest you, the webpage the post is linked to is now gone (I wonder why? :rolleyes: ), but the quote is still here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92865924&postcount=442

Shrap wrote: »

I have a 2.8h ash wood, which was planted by the previous owner 25 years ago. There's a nice understory coming up and I've been planting a more diverse selection than just ash after thinning, but I'm concerned that I might be throwing time and money at a wood that might have to be clear-felled in the next decade or so. There doesn't appear to be any official advice on how plantation owners should proceed.....

You may be lucky and your trees are not from imported infected stock, so you may be ok from that point. The infection has been found in most counties from imported stock, so it's not really very far away. But the question remains how far has the infection spread from those infected sites into the wider environment since they were planted and how far is it going to go? There is no way to tell if the infection will come to your Ash site or not.

The advice has been that it would be prudent to plant other species from now on.

This may interest you: "Reconstitution Scheme (Chalara Ash Dieback)
2014-2020" from the Depts website:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/grantandpremiumschemes/2015/ReconstitutionSchemeChalaraEd2190315.pdf

from here:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/grantsandpremiumschemes2015/

As of July 2015 there are 169 infected sited in ROI and over 100 in NI, a total of over 269 on the Island.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-33480275
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

The last mapping available of infected sites we have to look at for Ireland was this from May 2014 (I combined the available map of NI to it at the time): well out of date

Oldtree

Scientists are worried about its impact in Northern Ireland, where ash is a common tree.
They are carrying out a survey of more than 1,000 sites to identify any further problems.
And they have asked for the public's help.
The authorities have developed a smartphone app called Tree Check that the public can use to report potential problems, including a picture and a GPS position.
They will then be assessed and, if necessary, the site visited by experts.
Jim Crummie, plant health expert with the Forest Service urged the public to download the app and to be the "eyes and ears" of the authorities in the fight to combat the disease.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-33480275

and south of the border we have a webpage.......???

Forest owners, forest nursery staff and members of the public are asked to be vigilant for the disease and report (with photographs, if possible) any sites where there are concerns about unusual ill health in ash, to the Forest Service, Department of Agriculture, Food & the Marine, by e-mail forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie or by phoning 01-607 2651. Your report will be followed up by a Forestry Inspector.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

am I ranting again? :P:eek:

Shrap

Oh dear. Thank you kindly though for the information.

Oldtree wrote: »

It's a scorched earth policy here for infected sites at the moment, and associated tree batch planted sites, as well as adjacent hedgrows, as I understand it, roots and all.

I think I'll hold off on planting more species then, whatever their advice, especially if they not only clear fell, uproot and burn, but also drown the place in herbicide :mad:

Hopefully they'll change the scorched earth policy if the disease starts to hit more mature plantations, to at least let people make use of the fuel source.

Looks like I can only cross my fingers and wait. Thanks very much for the links. I'll look at them more carefully later, but I imagine that my last 15 years of careful stewardship will have been an enormous waste unless I consider something drastic like buying back the grant and clear felling/selling the entire stock before I might have to burn it on site Will have to think this through.

Oldtree

Shrap wrote: »

but I imagine that my last 15 years of careful stewardship will have been an enormous waste unless I consider something drastic like buying back the grant and clear felling/selling the entire stock before I might have to burn it on site Will have to think this through.

That is a harsh decision to have to make. My ash woodland is semi natural/ancient, and managed as such, with some of the ash trees 150-200 years old, and some dwarf ones around 120 years old. My fears are more ecologically based so I have no choice but to plod on and hope for the best, to pass it on to the next generation intact.

Shrap

Oldtree wrote: »

That is a harsh decision to have to make. My ash woodland is semi natural/ancient, and managed as such, with some of the ash trees 150-200 years old, and some dwarf ones around 120 years old. My fears are more ecologically based so I have no choice but to plod on and hope for the best, to pass it on to the next generation intact.

Oh my goodness :eek: I have one or two ancient ones in the hedgerows and they'd be a tragic loss. Can't imagine how harsh it would be to lose a whole woodland of that age. I read something about older, more precious trees like your's being treated with garlic injections successfully. Have you heard anything about that? Must get the fella (also tree mad) to find the link again.

Ecologically, I don't know what would be the better option for an ongoing species diverse woodland as young as mine. I mean, if the ash had to be clear felled and then burned/uprooted/sprayed, it would be disastrous for the diverse under-story and set it back many years, possibly stunting them all for life. However, if I bought back and then replanted without a grant (having been able to sell the wood as fuel, and maybe some big ones for hurls and planking, if I do this before it catches the disease), then I won't lose all the growth in other already established species and can salvage something back from the 25 yr old ash. Sigh. Hard to know what to do.

Edit: Especially as (and I'm not litigious!) the WHOLE grant would have to be paid back, not just the premiums, if I did this. In spite of poor practice by the state agency bringing on this unwelcome decision.

Oldtree

Shrap wrote: »

I read something about older, more precious trees like your's being treated with garlic injections successfully. Have you heard anything about that? Must get the fella (also tree mad) to find the link again.

I think its been mentioned here before, but I'm not sure that of what the results were.

Shrap wrote: »

Edit: Especially as (and I'm not litigious!) the WHOLE grant would have to be paid back, not just the premiums, if I did this. In spite of poor practice by the state agency bringing on this unwelcome decision.

I think it will be very interesting to see in a future case where (if any) negligence lies with the importation of these infected trees, and who that negligence may lie with, should this disease escape to the wider environment from the imported trees and who if anyone would be responsible for the financial loss, such as in your case (never mind the stress involved)!

Shrap

Oldtree wrote: »

I think its been mentioned here before, but I'm not sure that of what the results were.

Ah. Found where I saw it. Highly experimental and tested seemingly in Oaks with canker. Probably worth a try in some very old Ash trees, if they were definitely diseased and definitely going to die. https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjABahUKEwjD68iy_ovJAhWDShQKHaCaBF8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fscience-environment-29522647&usg=AFQjCNEmZDu5IzbBA9efL48umC8rjvWbww&sig2=OCd5Wjuwma0LRjS7ATkJig

Oldtree

Injecting trees is an invasive process, breaching the cambium, so would be an action of last resort as you say. I would try it if my old trees were diseased and there was data indicating some success.

Oldtree

Funnily enough while we were chatting on the 12th, the Dept were organising new figures for us. There has been an increase in the number of ash dieback sites located in ROI, its now up to 195 (?), giving a total of nearly 300 on our island. Infected forestry platations found are up over 100% in 2015 on previously located figures from 2014 and before.


http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

I noticed the little nuggets at the bottom of the Departments published figures:

2 Refers to the number of counties with one or more confirmed native hedgerow findings.
3 Refers to the number of counties with one or more confirmed findings in roadside plantings.

"one or more confirmed" :eek:

11 Counties have infected hedgrow sites and 13 counties have infected roadside plantings! How many hedgerow sites and roadside planting sites within these counties have been infected? The Dept map of all infected sites was changed to exclude Horticultural nurseries, then withdrawn altogeather. The figures presented by the Dept no longer including the caveat "hedgerow positives are all associated with infected sites". Now a slight of hand reduces the true number of infected sites. :rolleyes: What is the real situation? The currently mispresented "195" infected sites within ROI is not? Does it appear that Nero is fiddling :mad:

The Irish Times reported on the figures last night and presented this picture in the article:



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/number-of-trees-with-ash-dieback-disease-up-two-thirds-in-2015-1.2436897

It could be said from a quick look at the analysis of the figures presented in the IT picture, that there is a downward trend in the discovery of new sites, hmmmmmmmm, but it does not portray a year by year discovery, nor does it show the actual number (one or more) of infected sites.

Also interesting to note from the IT picture is that 2 million trees have been uprooted an buried, and that 693 hectares (1712 acres) have been cleared since 2012 (and one presumes glyphosated).

Oldtree

Somthing was bothering me in the figures, so I had a deeper look. Can you spot it?

Total to end of 2014 Figures



Total to end 2015 Figures




Roadside plantings are stated as 31 sites to end of 2014, and are now down to 4 counties for 2014 on the 2015 statement.

Very misleading imo, esp in the way it is presented.

Also worth noting that the total for new infected Forestry plantation sites discovered in 2014 was 13, and it is up to 56 for 2015, an increase of 430% :eek:

tabby aspreme

What I would like to know is, how many of the sites are positive findings, and how many are sites associated with infected batches of imports which had no positive findings, but were cleared as a precautionary measure

Shrap

tabby aspreme wrote: »

What I would like to know is, how many of the sites are positive findings, and how many are sites associated with infected batches of imports which had no positive findings, but were cleared as a precautionary measure

I'm thinking that the words "confirmed findings" sort of speak for themselves.

tabby aspreme

Shrap wrote: »

I'm thinking that the words "confirmed findings" sort of speak for themselves.

I would agree, but when the campaign was launched to remove Chalara there was a lot of talk about removal of all trees from associated batches of infected imports as a precautionary measure

Oldtree

I would have to hope that "Confirmed" would indicate actual infected sites. Therefore we do not know how many uninfected adjacent/associated sites or uninfected adjacent/associated hedgerows have also been removed. Nor do we know if those trees/areas have been included in the 2 million trees have been uprooted and buried on the 693 cleared hectares. I suspect not. But again its down to a serious lack of clarity and forthrightness by the Dept.

I cannot find a copy of the much refered to Ash Dieback "Sanitation Action Plan", which would give us an idea of the official sanitation extended area for an infected site.

The information provided vis "2 million trees have been uprooted and deeply buried on the 693 cleared hectares" appears to comes from a Written answer on, 21 April 2015, so 7 months out of date. (Q 337)

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2015042100061

From reading the above 2015 written answer, bugger all resourses are currently being aimed at Ash Dieback, and the pathetic use of 2013 information evenings is not in any way current, just like the press releases by the Dept also not seen since 2013.

No idea where they would bury the infected trees here in an area that has 25 cm of soil and then a limestone bedrock.

IT has another article today, but it is more a sad lament

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/michael-harding-the-story-of-the-decline-of-the-mighty-ash-1.2438801

And the little tree’s mother, who was standing majestic in the corner of the field raised her limbs to the sky and shook her branches and cried to the wind.

“My children are dying,” she cried. “All my young ones are going to die, and when I grow old they will break my bones, and chop me for firewood and there will be no more of us left. No sound like the sound of the ash will be heard ever again in windy nights.

“No oar like the ash oar will ever again break the surface of the lake. The rivers will forget us. And the people will tell no more stories about the magic of the ash in the druid’s hand, or it’s force for mingling the male and female energies in the Cosmos. And no one will see again its lovely black buds that children played with for thousands of years.”

When the little tree died it was taken away, and sometimes the mother ash still cries out in the wind. She cries for her children. I know because I often hear her.

Oldtree

tabby aspreme wrote: »

I would agree, but when the campaign was launched to remove Chalara there was a lot of talk about removal of all trees from associated batches of infected imports as a precautionary measure

Still up on Depts website, so presume that is the official method.

On 12th October 2012, the Department confirmed Ireland’s first case of Chalara fraxinea infection in a young forestry plantation in County Leitrim which had been planted with imported trees. The trees on this site and on all ten other sites planted with the same batch of trees were subsequently destroyed under Department supervision.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

Oldtree

with regard to deciding on possible eradication areas (2013)

This hedgerow is within 50 metres of a farm landscaping shelterbelt of ash planted 8 years ago with imported plants that have also tested positive for the disease. This is now the second confirmed site of Chalara in a native hedgerow in Ireland. The Department are carrying out a survey of the hedgerow system in the vicinity of this finding before determining the extent of hedgerow to be removed in order to eradicate the disease at this site.

“Given this finding of a second outbreak in native ash trees within a hedgerow, it is obvious that there is a major challenge in eradicating this disease. We will continue with the policy of eradication and review this policy as further results come in from the ongoing surveys.”

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2013/october/title,72457,en.html

Oldtree

anybody used the Treecheck app yet to report possible infected trees?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95111569

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2015/april/title,82235,en.html

type www.treecheck.net into your moblie browser

you can also contact the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine by email forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie or by phoning 01 6072651.

Shrap

Oldtree wrote: »

anybody used the Treecheck app yet to report possible infected trees?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95111569

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2015/april/title,82235,en.html

type www.treecheck.net into your moblie browser

you can also contact the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine by email forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie or by phoning 01 6072651.

You're joking right?! I'd have to think long and hard about reporting infections if I found one And I'm painfully honest. Can imagine the uptake isn't the greatest, considering the risk of losing out massively by being on the front line of an unstoppable disease.....

Oldtree

I have thought about it. In my circumstance if I find AD in my semi natural/ancient woodland there would be little reason to report it as AD would clearly be omnipresent in the wider environment and there are no ash plantations nearby to infect my wood, nor to be infected by.

If I happened to discover it while passing an Ash plantation I would mention the discovery to the owner and allow him to make the decision.

If I found it in a roadside planting or public landscaping I would report it.

If I had an ash plantation (a crop/financial endevor) and discovered it, I would have to accept the fact that my young plantation was f**ked and report it and get the ball rolling on clearance and alternative replanting, rather than lose another year. It seems to only be in young plantations that are currently affected (maby under 15 years) so I would write off that 15 years investment and start again, rather than take the serious chance of losing everything further down the line. It would be a purely business/financial decision.

If AD is starting to show up in my plantation older then 15 years, then it must be accepted that it is everywhere, the ban should be lifted, agreement from the Dept that harvest what can be harvested, no penalties/repayments for early harvest, and normal grants for replanting on that site, might be a reasonable solution.

There does not appear to be any proposed official compensation for the loss involved here (either in young or older plantations), unless litigation is taken for the official slowness here in response to the threat. Such as the proposed case here in the UK in 2012, but I cannot find out the outcome of the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227467/Ash-tree-grower-suing-government-200-000-destroying-50-000-trees-following-disease.html

Oldtree

The Dept have changed to look of the Ash Dieback page on their website:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

Of note are the Latest Figures from the Dept:



Again the presentation of the figures is as not as straighforward as it would appear at a glance (no totals this time) as the 1,2,3 adendums to the above figures indicate. So.... actual site figures provided below now include the new info to provide a better picture of individual total infected sites to 2015 at a glance: which now appears to be 339 infected sites.



There are no reported wider environment sites in NI, but the total in NI is now 113, giving a total of 452 infected sites on the Island.

At the 15 December 2015 a total of 110 premises with recently planted ash and 3 nursery/trade findings have been confirmed infected in Northern Ireland

https://www.dardni.gov.uk/articles/ash-dieback-disease
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

They provide a map this time and you know how I love a map

Distribution map of confirmed findings of the Ash Dieback in Ireland (as of 25th January 2016). The locations of horticultural nurseries and garden centres are not depicted

The map seems to show that 3 counties do not appear to have infection.

NI map:



This next bit made for very interesting reading, but..

Spore trapping

As part of the 2015 Ash Dieback work programme the Department included a spore-trapping element aimed at detecting, quantifying, and establishing dispersal patterns around known positive locations. The study was conducted with the assistance of experts from the French National Institute for Agricultural Research (INRA) and based mainly in Tipperary and Leitrim where 192 spore traps were placed in the wider countryside for a week or two during the summer and removed and analysed for the presence of spores. Ash dieback spores were found in 14 spore traps.

Seems to prove beyond a doubt that the disease is spreading from imported stock into the wider environment. I would like to see further data from the report, like actual dates traps were placed, actual spread/distance of traps from infected locations, etc, to get a better picture of the actual spread.

How the disease is spread

When mature, these tiny fruiting bodies release large quantities of microscopic spores into the air, some of which will land on the leaves of both healthy and previously infected ash trees to begin the cycle again.

Movement of larger diameter ash logs from infected areas is considered to be much lower risk so long as certain phytosanitary measures are properly implemented. These include ensuring the larger diameter logs being moved have no evident signs of the disease, e.g. lesions or staining, and that all leaves and foliage (whether living or dead) are completely removed on site before transportation.

I had thought that movement of logs with bark on was restricted. Not sure how they intend the control of microscopic spores on trafficed barked or debarked logs from infected sites.

Legislation - Update of legislative measures - 2015

Arising from the findings in Dr. Sansford’s report the Department and DARD officials agreed that relaxing certain legal measures restricting ash wood imports would not impact on the control of the disease. On 3rd November 2015 the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine updated the legislation on the importation of ash wood into the country

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/SI479of2015181115.pdf

In addition to forest surveys, staff in the wider Department conducted surveys in horticultural nurseries, garden centres, private gardens, roadside landscaping and farm agrienvironment scheme plantings. The surveys conducted in 2015 included a targeted survey of forestry plantations with imported ash (97 locations) and a systematic survey of 376 National Forest Inventory points (153 forest locations and 223 hedgerow locations) across the country.

This is taken from pg 50: Ireland’s Forests - Annual Statistics, and may explain the large increase in infected sites in 2015.

http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/docs/stats/Annual%20Forest%20Sector%20Statistics%202015.pdf