Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

tabby aspreme

Charcoal would be a great use for the wood, I don't know of anyone making it in Ireland.
Do all ash trees on the farm have to be destroyed or is it just the ones in the plantation.

Oldtree

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Do all ash trees on the farm have to be destroyed or is it just the ones in the plantation.

Hedgerows surrounding infected plantations were being taken out in the past. Not sure if this has continued. there would be a survey of surrounding hedgerows but I dont know the distance involved.

Meanwhile the felling of trees in the first hedgerow infection site in Leitrim site has been completed. All ash trees in the surrounding hedgerows and associated leaf litter have been removed and destroyed from a 250m buffer zone around the site.

http://deelforestry.ie/ash-dieback-update/

Oldtree

S.I. No. 479 of 2015 has a bit more detail than above about wood diameter that might be an indication of log size?

(c) where the tree from which the wood derived when measured 1.3
metres from the ground was less than 10 centimetres in diameter,

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/SI479of2015181115.pdf

timfromtang

fergus1001 wrote: »

There is a grant there to cover the reconstitution of your forest, I actually remember planting and spraying your 2012 parcel of ash !

Hi Fergus,
You are correct there is a grant for reconstitution, however the level of grant aid is designed for clearing younger plantings, where the trees are larger there are greater costs involved in the tree clearance and litter removal operations apparently, time will tell of course.
There are options to recover some value through chipping the wood and selling to edenderry or wherever in the sanitation action plan
tim

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

Hedgerows surrounding infected plantations were being taken out in the past. Not sure if this has continued. there would be a survey of surrounding hedgerows but I dont know the distance involved.



http://deelforestry.ie/ash-dieback-update/

Now that i know intimately what the disease looks like, i see it in hedgerows around me, on a journey to lanesboro from ballymahon i passed a number of ash affected by dieback (Caution here there are other organisms which cause dieback in ash so there is no certainty it is Hymenocyphus fraxinea (chalara Ash Dieback))

tim

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

Charcoal is a great idea, maby Tescos or some other outlet would be interested in such a locally produced product.

Do you have to come up with your own Sanitation Action Plan or is an outline provided by the dept, or is it as you mentioned a persuasion of the inspector? Up to now the methods seems to have been "uprooting and deep burial"





http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/ReconstitutionofWoodlandsChalarafraxineaSchemeMarch2013210313.pdf



Could this be used in some way to allow you to produce charcoal, moisture content less than 20% and its color marking it as better than KD?

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/legislation/statutoryinstruments2012/SI4312012.pdf

Would it be worth finding out what entails a "larger diameter ash log"? Anything without staining could be processed off site and used as firewood.



http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/

Hi Oldtree,
The sanitation action plan comes as a template with various options outlined. We are all making things up as we go along here given that this is a newly emerged disease. I am hopeful that we will experience a degree of openmindedness from the department as we plan biologically safe methods to recover some of the value of the timber.

I keep hearing from foresters about an issue with the bark, however i have not found a scientific basis for the concern to date, I would be grateful if anyone can provide more information on whether larger logs with bark intact pose a transmission risk.

Charcoal would seem a likely solution but in the abscence of a developed market for hardwood lump charcoal (much superior to the half burned and doped with sand stuff that is generally sold here for BBQ's etc), and the difficulties involved in handling storage packaging etc for what will be a one time deal........... It would seem likely that we would end up getting reamed financially on that option. If however an industrial user of charcoal could be found and their specifications met with our processing methos for charcoal then just maybe there is a chance

It would seem that high temperature kiln drying of firewood would sufficiently sanitise the wood also, I am fairly sure that 3.5 days of 70-85 deg C would kill the organism.

Another thing in our favour is that most stems are not infected, there are only a few examples of the disease to be seen in each of the plantings involved.

tim

Oldtree

Is there a time limit to sanitise lands and to replant under the destruction order/replant grant conditions?

Oldtree

timfromtang wrote: »

I keep hearing from foresters about an issue with the bark, however i have not found a scientific basis for the concern to date, I would be grateful if anyone can provide more information on whether larger logs with bark intact pose a transmission risk.

Both the UK and the dept call it a low risk of transmission on larger logs, but that still allows for transmission. With the spores unlikely to survive for more than a few days and spores produced from infected dead leaves during June to October, it would appear at first glance to be safe to move non-infected logs in deep winter and early spring. That would be logs without staining.

But taking that to the n'th degree, how large does the wood staining have to be? Would a small staining/infection be noticed? It takes time for an infection to show itself as well as needing a high dose of spores. Bark is a point of ingress.

2012 paper

Abstract
Ash decline induced by Hymenoscyphus pseudoalbidus is an emerging disease that severely affects Fraxinus excelsior stands in Europe. There has been an invasive spread of the disease from east to west in Europe over the last decade. Wood discoloration on infected trunks has been reported, but few data are available on the involvement of H. pseudoalbidus in such symptoms. Transport and trade of ash logs could introduce the pathogen into disease-free areas and therefore accelerate its dissemination. The aim of this study was to assess the prevalence and severity of H. pseudoalbidus in ash logs in infested areas located in the northeast of France and to clarify the role of secondary pathogens in ash decline. The results showed that prevalence of H. pseudoalbidus on collar lesions was high in the study area. The pathogen was able to produce conidia from infected wood. Thus, export of ash logs could represent a potential risk for spreading the disease. Involvement of Armillaria spp. in the decline process was confirmed, while no Phytophthora-induced collar lesions were found. Studying both disease prevalence and the age of callus tissues surrounding collar lesions in 60 ash stands enabled the origin of the disease in the study area to be determined.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3059.2011.02578.x/full

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

Is there a time limit to sanitise lands and to replant under the destruction order/replant grant conditions?

It would appear that they would like us to clear within 8 weeks, to quote the letter..

"It is important that existing ash trees and leaf litter are removed and destroyed as soon as possible, and before 8 weeks from the date of this letter.

followed by a boxed IMPORTANT NOTICE

In order to avoid spreading the disease you should not remove or destroy any material until a Sanitation Action Plan agreed with the department is in place.


from the sanitation action plan working template vers 18 feb16 we have
again bold and underlined as in the document

Based on the life cycle of Ash Dieback Disease, SAP works should be urgently prioritised before the summer sporulation period on infected leaf rachises in the litter, and again in the late Summer / early Autumn period before the fall of infected leaves.



tim

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

Both the UK and the dept call it a low risk of transmission on larger logs, but that still allows for transmission. With the spores unlikely to survive for more than a few days and spores produced from infected dead leaves during June to October, it would appear at first glance to be safe to move non-infected logs in deep winter and early spring. That would be logs without staining.

But taking that to the n'th degree, how large does the wood staining have to be? Would a small staining/infection be noticed? It takes time for an infection to show itself as well as needing a high dose of spores. Bark is a point of ingress.

2012 paper


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3059.2011.02578.x/full

Many thanks for that oldtree, exactly the kind of helpful information needed.

tim

timfromtang

With regard to replanting i understand that we may replant with the species of our choice as approved by forester and forest service, and must leave the land unplanted for 12 months prior to re-establishing a crop.

tim

timfromtang

Electronic versions of the Ash Dieback Disease Sanitation Action Plan document, i.e. the current working template are available from forestprotection@agriculture.gov.ie
tel 01 607 2651

tim

Oldtree

timfromtang wrote: »

It would appear that they would like us to clear within 8 weeks, to quote the letter..

"It is important that existing ash trees and leaf litter are removed and destroyed as soon as possible, and before 8 weeks from the date of this letter.

followed by a boxed IMPORTANT NOTICE

In order to avoid spreading the disease you should not remove or destroy any material until a Sanitation Action Plan agreed with the department is in place.


from the sanitation action plan working template vers 18 feb16 we have
again bold and underlined as in the document

Based on the life cycle of Ash Dieback Disease, SAP works should be urgently prioritised before the summer sporulation period on infected leaf rachises in the litter, and again in the late Summer / early Autumn period before the fall of infected leaves.

tim

The SAP form seems to be at odds with itself. You have to do the works within 8 weeks, forcing you to do works during the sexual reproductive stage of the fungus, (June to October),

Based on the life cycle of Ash Dieback Disease, SAP works should be urgently prioritised before the summer sporulation period on infected leaf rachises in the litter, and again in the late Summer / early Autumn period before the fall of infected leaves

This statement has to be to prevent air/ground disturbance in an infected plantation, augmenting the spore distribution, so it must have been quantified somewhere along the way. This implies to me that SAP works should not be carried out June to October. I'm not sure that an infected plantation is going to infect a wider area than it already has, but helping the spores up into the air may. Dam protocols.

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

The SAP form seems to be at odds with itself. You have to do the works within 8 weeks, forcing you to do works during the sexual reproductive stage of the fungus, (June to October),

Well, its all about grammar really, the phrase "it is important that" is not an imperative like "you must" or indeed "you shall" I am hopeful that the forest service disease section will facilitate works at the LEAST risky earliest opportunity so to speak.

This statement has to be to prevent air/ground disturbance in an infected plantation, augmenting the spore distribution, so it must have been quantified somewhere along the way. This implies to me that SAP works should not be carried out June to October. I'm not sure that an infected plantation is going to infect a wider area than it already has, but helping the spores up into the air may. Dam protocols.

I am at the moment planning the treatment, we are going to thin the whole forest area to remove any errant ash and its litter and provide a yield that may alleviate costs over and above the grant provision.

At this stage i believe that we should all adopt a non confrontational and co-operative attitude, those discussing the disease and those dealing with it on the ground.

tim

Oldtree

timfromtang wrote: »

"It is important that existing ash trees and leaf litter are removed and destroyed as soon as possible, and before 8 weeks from the date of this letter.

"and before 8 weeks from the date of this letter" seems to be catagoric tim, but I wait to hear what happens.

I have a semi natural/ancient ash woodland that cannot be replanted or replaced, does not provide an income, no grant aid and takes a lot of work on my behalf to preserve it. I think it is worth being somewhat confrontational about.

I have seen very little proactive work from the dept and in my eyes this seems to continue if they allow the SAP from an infected plantation to take place during the spore season, thus my frustration with the protocols. Why did it take so long to identify the risk with this disease, surely someone in the department spotted it comming. If not why not? Its their job.

I appreciate very much what has happened to you and it may very well be in my future too sooner rather than later. I would prefer later and for all possible precautions to still be taken until then. It is not your fault you are in this situation tim nor would I blame you in any way for following dept protocols.

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

"and before 8 weeks from the date of this letter" seems to be catagoric tim, but I wait to hear what happens.

I have a semi natural/ancient ash woodland that cannot be replanted or replaced, does not provide an income, no grant aid and takes a lot of work on my behalf to preserve it. I think it is worth being somewhat confrontational about.

I have seen very little proactive work from the dept and in my eyes this seems to continue if they allow the SAP from an infected plantation to take place during the spore season, thus my frustration with the protocols. Why did it take so long to identify the risk with this disease, surely someone in the department spotted it comming. If not why not? Its their job.

I appreciate very much what has happened to you and it may very well be in my future too sooner rather than later. I would prefer later and for all possible precautions to still be taken until then. It is not your fault you are in this situation tim nor would I blame you in any way for following dept protocols.

Given your situation I can empathise with your confrontational feelings. However i have noticed that such tends to lead to a dogmatic response from the supposed Authority, Furthermore the Authority have men in blue hats with sticks and other instruments Statutory or otherwise to enforce their will. Allbeit more powerful and effective on grant aided plantations than in your situation.
I have had success in the past with careful questions and suggestions, at this stage there is no "body" to "blame" for the situation that we and our Ash population find ourselves in. We'll get on best I'd suggest with a mutually supportive approach to the complex issues involved. There is after all unlikely to be a "one size fits all plan" that will meet our needs, and any flexibility in approach to meet changing threats and conditions is to be welcomed, as are any alternative approaches that can recover some of the very serious financial losses involved for those of us who try to make our living from growing trees.
I'd suggest that the sharing of information is also very important' as is the ability to accept constructive criticism gracefully and gratefully and to correct and alter our actions accordingly.

I will raise the issue of the "best and safest" time to intervene and perform the sanitation work with the forest service and my forester.

I am very unlikely to go along with any "enforced" measures that I or others whom i trust deem to be unsafe from a biological/transmission perspective.

I must thank you again for your clarification of the bark transmission vector.

much respect
tim

99nsr125

timfromtang wrote: »

Must be a run on notifications, 16.85 Ha in our case, got the letter today,,,,, "We regret to inform you..............." sigh, on reading the "sanitation action plan" it looks a total loss some planted 1996, more 2001, 2003, 2012. (guess where the infection started anyone??) :-( Apparently we are not even allowed to sell the timber for firewood nor share it with relatives who live further than 3km from home. Forester coming on monday. Will post here on the actions taken by the various parties.


tis 41% of our forest,
stuff of nightmares,
been watching those ladies reaching for the skies for 20 years. I met my wife in the bottoms field, planting alongside me and my father in 1996 (she working for the forestry company and my dad and i helping out with the planting).

tim

Oh my god that's terrible.
Every Ash tree or sapling has been granted immunity around our farm even the one growing out of an apple tree.

Can you take pictures/video so everyone gets to see the glory of them before they have to be cleared.

Oldtree

I decided to go back to the beginning of this thread and have a look round, but had to stop after a few pages.

2 things jumped out at me, well a lot more did in insightful posts, but these are poignant and worth noting at this juncture:

DAFM press release 26 October 2012:

has today announced the introduction of legal measures to prohibit the importation into Ireland of plant material from ash dieback infected areas.

Active surveillance, in place since 2008, is continuing by Department Forestry Inspectorate staff across ash plantations.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/october/title,67308,en.html

and this sequence of posts (as I cannot find an online link for the Ear to the Ground Season 21 programme 3 - 15 November 2012, where it can be viewed)

Rovi wrote: »

There's going to be an item about this in tonight's episode of Ear To The Ground, RTE1, at 8:30.

Oldtree wrote: »

just watched it and I'm gobsmacked:
the minister says (in an agressive manner)
its not here now as we've destroyed it! :eek:

two wheels good wrote: »

He seemed misguided and unconvincing.
His other bons mots: "I'm not a fool" and "I'm from a farming background".

The_Conductor wrote: »

Someone really needs to rebalance that interview with an interview with an Irish plant pathology Prof- Kevin Clancy sounds like a good candidate. How can you make a statement like that?

Oldtree

99nsr125 wrote: »

Can you take pictures/video so everyone gets to see the glory of them

In this spirit.... 2 of my noteworthy diminutive Ash trees

est 100-115 years old:


est 130-170 years old:

tabby aspreme

When you read the piece on page 4 it says it all . The people on the BIHIP committee, now known as Future Forests , are the great and the good of Irish and UK forestry.

timfromtang

99nsr125 wrote: »

Oh my god that's terrible.
Every Ash tree or sapling has been granted immunity around our farm even the one growing out of an apple tree.

Can you take pictures/video so everyone gets to see the glory of them before they have to be cleared.

Thanks for that suggestion, since there is little information about what to do when your plantation gets infected, nor information about the kinds of actions taken to sanitise infected sites I have decided to document the process here.
I have slapped a few videos up on the you tube
tim

It is my intention to document the whole process from this point on, as we dig up the trees, clear the ground etc

tim

timfromtang

Greetings all,
Does anyone know of other forums who are discussing Ash dieback.
tim

tabby aspreme

Thanks for putting up the videos Tim, your correct in saying that there is very little information about how to deal with infected sites, it can't be an easy thing to do when you are so involved with timber.

Oldtree

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Thanks for putting up the videos Tim, your correct in saying that there is very little information about how to deal with infected sites, it can't be an easy thing to do when you are so involved with timber.

Yes, thank you tim, it was very difficult to watch.

Oldtree

not sure what would make a good understory for Sycamore, ive been trying to remove them here as their leaves open very early in the season, large leaves that spread out quickly to find light, and they block the light for the native flora.

its very noticable in spring even with sycamore seedlings of only a foot or so how they retard the growth of the woodland floor flora. I removed a few older sycamores a few years back and the rise of the ash in the crown vacuum was astounding, like you say... bing.

If the SAP requires all leaf litter, etc, to be removed wont that damage the sycamore in the mix, roots/branches? To circumvent the sycamore in a mix sounds like it would be a hugely intensive operation. Could some ash leaf litter be left in the sycamore branches? Have the dept made a change to their scorched earth policy?

embraer170

Thanks for the videos, very useful and interesting.

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

not sure what would make a good understory for Sycamore, ive been trying to remove them here as their leaves open very early in the season, large leaves that spread out quickly to find light, and they block the light for the native flora.

its very noticable in spring even with sycamore seedlings of only a foot or so how they retard the growth of the woodland floor flora. I removed a few older sycamores a few years back and the rise of the ash in the crown vacuum was astounding, like you say... bing.

If the SAP requires all leaf litter, etc, to be removed wont that damage the sycamore in the mix, roots/branches? To circumvent the sycamore in a mix sounds like it would be a hugely intensive operation. Could some ash leaf litter be left in the sycamore branches? Have the dept made a change to their scorched earth policy?

As I said in the videos the situation is fluid, the Dept is adapting to changing science and situation as are the rest of us There have not been many other infections in stands as old as ours.
It is clear to me that the grant and the kinds of mechanical and manual actions that the grant will pay for will not be enough to even satisfy the "spirit" of the SAP. Ergo I plan to recruit volunteer labour to do much of this work if possible, and if necessary. Perhaps WWOOF'ers. I am hopeful that there are folk who are motivated as I am by a love of Life in general and trees in particular to aid us in trying to prevent the spread and contain this nasty disease.

tim

timfromtang

If indeed it is present in the wider environment locally, this is very bad news indeed. Although we may now be able to make a case for saving both the 20 year old "bottoms field" stand and the intimate mixture in "miss farrells field" and screening the crop for resistant individuals, I would hope for a 5-12% survival rate 15 years on, and since these 2 crops are still quite densly populated 1600 - 1800 stems Ha or thereabouts this would imply that on the lower end the final crop made up of the survivors would exist at 80 stems/Ha in the bottoms pure ash and 40 stems/ha as a component of the sycamore in miss farrells field. these figures assuming a 5% survival to final crop rate??

tim

timfromtang

Greetings all,
I have noticed locally that many ash trees locally are showing signs of dieback in their crowns.
Perhaps others here who are able would consent to having a cycle or drive around their own locality and reporting here on the number of Ash trees that you notice with crown dieback.

There are many useful videos on you tube concerning how to spot the Chalara fraxinea Ash dieback disease.

tim

Oldtree

from the FC UK (sorry about size of photos but felt the detail was important.)


Dead or dying tops of trees, most easily seen throughout summer


Wilting leaves, most visible in spring and early summer


Lesions and cankers on stems/branches/shoot, visible throughout the year


Fruiting bodies on fallen blacked leaf stalks, visible June to October





















Printable pdf Guide http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/FCPH-ADD_photoID.pdf/$FILE/FCPH-ADD_photoID.pdf

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-92AHUK
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-8zlksx