Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

timfromtang

I am reading the book, this on page 53 from the austrian chapter is worrying indeed.......

Quote"
Observations in forests are less encouraging because many initially healthy or only slightly damaged ash
trees subsequently decline (Kirisits and Freinschlag 2015). Experience in Grafenegg estate does not indicate
any lasting resistance or tolerance. There is certainly variation in the health condition among ash trees, and
disease progression varies from year to year (likely influenced by annual weather fluctuations), but it appears
that less damaging years do not suffice for substantial recovery of the trees. In Grafenegg, initially more
tolerant trees were documented with photographs. However, while the disease progressed slower on these
trees, it has nevertheless in the meantime killed them as well. This indicates that the share of trees with
durable high resistance in environments where the infection pressure of H. fraxineus is intense is likely much
lower than the 1 to 3 % frequently mentioned in the literature (Husson et al. 2012, Kjaer et al. 2012,
McKinney et al. 2014, Chandelier et al. 2016), if such trees exist at all.
end quote"


I may need to rethink my expectations of 1-10% of individuals showing resistance and surviving past 10 years hence, and my expectations of some portion of a crop of "finished" ash trees. It would seem that reducing the infection pressure would my only hope of reducing the impact, especially on those sections of monoculture we have here. Indeed Breaking the disease life cycle by preventing sex for fungus on the forest floor or similar if only locally on treated sites, would this have an impact?

Anyone know of a big tractor powered "hoover" with an inceration section to prevent spore migration through the filters??

I used to be an engineer, I've built things like a wooden bicycle, electric bike, (35 kph and 300 km/euro electricity), a vegetable oil powered combined heat and power plant producing electricity and hot water (overall efficiency in excess of 85% considering heat and electricity output) .....

Nowadays with rapid internet communication, worldwide rapid development is possible, folk will help,

Would anyone here like to attempt to build such a device with me......
A tractor or engine powered hoover, would need to ensure that no infective material passed through, would need to produce "char" from the hoovered material. perhaps a steam powered device might suit better, I would like to remove infective material from the forest floor, before subjecting it to heat treatment in order to avoid unnecessary killing of other things on the forest floor as this would clearly be counterproductive in terms of reducing ecosystem resilience.

such a device could be used in monoculture plantations, and around trees selected as stems with a future as they will have a clear area in the canopy surrounding the crown in most cases.

Does the necessary engineering experience locally exist on this island for multiple devices "open sourced" to be built quickly, I'd suggest it may..........

Is this a job, a "Volunteer Army" to tackle ash dieback could do?
Could it be possible that hundreds if not thousands of folk nationwide would co-operate in this way? Imagine the commercial potential going forward, we could be the island of the ASH, we-d have the european market, sighing after the glut (50% drop in the price of ash worldwide so far i heard) then crying during the scarcity, them tah-Dahh (howyra mister, would ya like a few ash planks sir, tis only *****euro a cubic foot sir, can't be had on the market worldwide anywhere esle sir, tis the finest quality irish hardwood, grown on the best land in the world for growing trees sir, tis the instrument of choice for our national game sir, ............)

This may be naive rhetoric or it may not, it requires imagination to turn problems into solutions, we'll require ways to ensure all participants benefit, but is it conceivable or simply possible that enlightened micro management by thousands of folk on ash country wide could have an impact??


Perhaps as i read further through the book, it will become clear that such a device would be unhelpful in mitigating the impact on our crop of ash.

Discusss please............

and indeed I would encourage all with an interest or stake in Ash Dieback to read, imagine and think and discuss,,,,

I WILL NOT GIVE UP HOPE
WITHOUT HOPE AND IMAGINATION ALL MAY BE LOST

again here is the piece

Quote"
Observations in forests are less encouraging because many initially healthy or only slightly damaged ash
trees subsequently decline (Kirisits and Freinschlag 2015). Experience in Grafenegg estate does not indicate
any lasting resistance or tolerance. There is certainly variation in the health condition among ash trees, and
disease progression varies from year to year (likely influenced by annual weather fluctuations), but it appears
that less damaging years do not suffice for substantial recovery of the trees. In Grafenegg, initially more
tolerant trees were documented with photographs. However, while the disease progressed slower on these
trees, it has nevertheless in the meantime killed them as well. This indicates that the share of trees with
durable high resistance in environments where the infection pressure of H. fraxineus is intense is likely much
lower than the 1 to 3 % frequently mentioned in the literature (Husson et al. 2012, Kjaer et al. 2012,
McKinney et al. 2014, Chandelier et al. 2016), if such trees exist at all.
end quote"

tim
Fuisneóg Abú

timfromtang

this from page 55 in the book posted above from the austrian chapter would seem to justify my decision to say no thank you to the forest service offer of a grant aided reconstitution based on the actions they required in their SAP.

Quote"
Removing
all ash trees including also healthy-looking ones bears the risk that potentially resistant genotypes are
eliminated forever from the populations.
end quote"

tim
Vivat Fraxinus.

timfromtang

quote:
It is therefore worth to think about complementary and
alternative strategies for the conservation of this indispensible tree species. Experiences from Dutch elm
disease (DED) may help in this respect. Elms have not become extinct completely, mainly because of three
factors. First, in Dutch elm disease a vector is required. Elm bark beetles (Scolytus spp.) carry the pathogen
from tree to tree. When the disease had resulted in a considerable “dilution” of trees across the landscape,
occasionally healthy elm trees were found. These trees are unlikely to be resistant but presumably represent
“disease escapes”, because of decreasing sizes of bark beetle populations and large distances for the beetles
to cover to reach host trees (Kirisits 2013b).

it may be interesting to find out in the future
whether at low densities of ash trees and less available inoculum, the disease can still strike as severely.
end quote

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the austrians will be good customers if'n we can manage to continue to grow ash here "indispensable tree species indeed"

"Less available inoculum", would seem to support the "hoover" from a couple of posts ago.

tim
Fuisneóg Abú

timfromtang

Quote"
Complete evacuation of the species, e.g., to southern European locations outside of the present distribution
range of F. excelsior, may also be discussed. Mountains in Southern Spain, Southern Italy including Sicily,
Southern Greece and Southern Turkey may provide suitable habitats. It is of course difficult to imagine large
quantities of ash being exported from disease-affected areas, and creating a disease-free environment for
them “in exile” would be a great challenge. A limited amount of plantations may, however, serve the purpose
of conservation. Examples of “exiled” tree populations that can be kept free of diseases do exist, e.g., with
apple trees (Malus domestica) in the mountains in Jordan (Salem et al. 2005) and with Ulmus spp. planted for
ex situ conservation and breeding purposes in areas in Spain where elms do not occur naturally (Kirisits
2013b).
end quote"

tim

timfromtang

from the swiss research, an argument that removing leaf litter nationwide under ash could have an impact

quote:
Subsequent experiments showed that the fungus can survive
inside petioles under field conditions for two sporulation seasons and withstand drought for at least three months
(Gross and Holdenrieder 2013, Gross et al. 2014a). Both findings were later confirmed by Kirisits (2015)
whereas he was able to show that the fungus can survive inside petioles under natural conditions for even five
sporulation seasons after the leaves have been shed.
end quote"

note that these infected petioles can produce VAST quantities of spores

tim
Long live the Ash

timfromtang

from germany this...........

Resistant appearing ash trees should never be felled, because it is
essential for the conservation of ash to allow these trees to reproduce.



tim

timfromtang

from denmark, the danes retain hope ....................

Continued international sharing of results, experience, thoughts and
ideas is important. Our expectation is that ash will also be an important species in the European forests in a
hundred years’ time.
end


tim

Oldtree

The resistance to ash dieback noted in some of the trees mentioned in the book which then decline and die may well be down to genetic componants that allow a specific tree to compartmentalise the wounds caused, more rapidly than normal, allowing function to continue for a while longer, thus giving the false impression of resistance.

What caught my eye is a possible maximum survival time of the fungus, 5 cycles. How long can the fungus survive after all the ash is gone?

Can viable seed from a wide selection of wild sites in Ireland be collected, sterilised and cold stored until such time as the fungus has died out and a safe period has passed?

Perhaps this seed collection for storage could run in tandem with the pollytunnel experiment to find resistant trees, a two pronged approach. There is no doubt that the rarity of ash in the future will add value to any ash crop post ash dieback.

It is said of an oak,
300 years to grow
300 years to mature
300 years to die.

It could be said of an ash
100 years to grow
100 years to mature
100 years to die.

Time is a trees friend.

SILVAMAN

taxusbaccata wrote: »

I was looking into mycorrhizal inoculants when I came across this:

http://www.gardenmyths.com/mycorrhizae-fungi-inoculant-products/

The entire site is quite cynical of products aimed at gardeners - it has a nature will sort itself out policy which is usually true...

Finally found the product M-Roots
http://www.bfgsupply.com/order-now/product/125/307631/lebanon-roots-25lb-m-roots-3-3-3-biological-plant-food

timfromtang

Greetings folks,
I had a good meeting last week with senior figures from the GAA and Teagasc, and a few foresters.

Action is being taken,
I've made a few new video's on the subject,,,, more to come,
for the moment I would be most grateful if folk would watch, share, like, comment etc,
please share on facebook or whatever social media,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_wAHWal2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz847eu76kQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8IU8Tf_Deo

many thanks
tim

Fuisneóg Abú

fepper

Tim I was about to ask you about the fine looking lopping shears and where I could get one and then you broke it ?? cutting that ash tree,great information films though,well done

Blackcurrants

Interesting extract from a talk by Richard Mabey. Nature hates order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w8soyFtV9A

timfromtang

Blackcurrants wrote: »

Interesting extract from a talk by Richard Mabey. Nature hates order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w8soyFtV9A

Hi Blackcurrants,
Sadly he is less than accurate on the science, I do concur that the media has exaggerated and been universally doom and gloom about it.

tim

timfromtang

Howdy folks,
The reconstitution scheme has been updated with new procedures.
My knowledge of the likely disease progress has increased
Many folk whom I trust have advised me,
Notably Gerry Douglas of Teagasc,
and I have decided to go ahead with the reconstitution of our infected 6 year old ash plantation.

I will post here as it happens, with photographs and some video.

I plan a state of the art, multispecies, diverse hard/softwood mix to replace it, I would be hoping to include very short rotation species, short rotation species, medium rotation species, and long and very long rotation species, in small groups such that each group should contain at least one final crop tree at end of rotation. The idea here is to achieve a multilayered stand structure as soon as possible to facilitate continuous cover management, and I would hope that the diversity will increase disease resilience and plant vigour throughout the stand.

very short rotation, poplars, and perhaps some conifers,
short rotation, cherry et al
medium rotation sycamore and other acers, walnut, etc
long rotation beech and oaks, with hornbeam understorey
very long rotation, yew

any suggestions ?

tim

blue5000

Tim,
I'm not sure what soil types you have, but if you have some wetter spots how about some Alder to fix a bit of Nitrogen?

timfromtang

aye, thanks blue, the soil is good and dry, but there are a few little spots where alder will do ok, and it will go in as a short rotation tree.
It is good land, was used to grow sugar beet during the last war, had been used for grazing and hay and silage since then.

The site was not mounded, trees were planted beside rips last time, I would plan to do this again with the small change of ripping along contour lines rather than in straight lines, this to improve water availability and give an element of drought protection.

I will have to purchase some of the trees myself I expect in order to get the diversity i wish for, for example I would plan to buy some apples, pears, and damsons, for the flowers and fruit, planted beside the rides. I will certainly have to buy any trees that are not in common supply by none so hardy et al. Yew (long rotation) for example. I do not mind investing in what I hope will be a beautiful forest. I'll have 12 months from the site clearance to purchase trees, and plan the planting. A bit more like an arboretum or forest garden than a commercial forest, but since my family and I will manage it on the ground with secateurs, chainsaw etc, it should be doable, I hope to demonstrate what is possible in diversity of outputs from the forest, i.e. recreation, food, etc.

Species I am considering at the moment,
Cherry, spanish chestnut, lime, black and common walnut, beech, oak, hornbeam, sycamore, norway maple, alder, birch, white poplar and some hybrids, whitebeam, scots pine, holly, yew, I'd perhaps include a small number of exotics, western red cedar, sitka, etc, certainly some evergreens to balance the hardwoods. perhaps even some rowans, spindle, and guelder rose for the edges too. a couple of monkey puzzles and dawn redwoods near the entrance (the forest road will enter from the road in one of the fields).
Diversity and intimate mixture would be my preference, given my management style of hands on micromanagement, and preference for continuous cover.
I am a lifetime hobby woodworker, and although I will not live to harvest these, I would hope that my descendants will thank me for the planting, we have been living here since 1701 and have no plans to move, my children are woodworkers also, and will have walnut in their 50's and cherry in their 40's, poplar and alder in their thirties, etc etc.

I would plan to plant the trees in small groups such that each group should contain at least one final crop tree at end of rotation, and to mix short and long rotation species throughout in order to achieve a multilayered forest to facilitate continuous cover management.

I am aware that this will all be a little more expensive than the usual grant aided planting scheme would allow for, I am hoping to supplement the grant, i.e. pay the forestry company a bit extra, in order to achieve what I'd like. I am using SWS Forestry at the moment, and have found the forester I have to be brilliant, he answers his phone, listens to my needs, etc.

A dizzy twit plan i have is to plant some distinctive species in a big C in a circle with 2018 on the south side "© 2018" so that it can be seen from the sky, and sue microshaft for copyright infringement when the image appears on bing maps (giggle).


tim

SILVAMAN

Sounds interesting. Spanish chestnut unavailable in Ireland due to a voluntary ban on importation because of inkspot disease which is wiping it out in Francs and the UK.
As a forester, I think we need to seriously examine the planting of broadleaves just for the sake of planting them. I've come across any number of sites of ash plantations which should never have been planted with ash i.e wet gleys, peaty gleys etc. These sites would have been better off under either Sitka with significant scattered groupings of a birch/alder /rowan mix.

Dozer1

latest Dept circular 6 available on their site now
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/grantsandpremiumschemes2015-2017/schemecirculars/2017circulars/

Oldtree

Dozer1 wrote: »

latest Dept circular 6 available on their site now
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/grantsandpremiumschemes2015-2017/schemecirculars/2017circulars/

Still no further figures on the spread of ash dieback from the dept since last September.

However up north they have given some more recent figures

Ash Dieback disease in Northern Ireland

Year/Inspections/infected sites/nursery etc

2012 1028 76 3
2013 1895 12. 0
2014 1306 2. 0
2015 1896 18. 0
2016 2680 68. 0

As a result of buffer surveillance at affected sites in 2015, Ash Dieback was detected in mature hedgerow ash trees at 3 locations close to infected recently planted trees, suggesting very localised spread at that stage

Will try do another all Ireland map shortly.

tabby aspreme

Good day to all, how is everyone getting on with the clearance and replanting on the ash ground, it was a good spring weather wise for getting work done , from talking to my forester there are plenty more cases of die back about.

The_Conductor

What are people replanting with ?
Heard a few people were thinking of Scots Pine- for amenity rather than commercial purposes?

timfromtang

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Good day to all, how is everyone getting on with the clearance and replanting on the ash ground, it was a good spring weather wise for getting work done , from talking to my forester there are plenty more cases of die back about.

A timely inquiry,
Hi Tabby,
I just pulled (uprooted) the last of 14500 ash stems on 5.2 Ha at home here in Tang on friday last.

Heading out to fire the last pile in a few minutes.

The trees were uprooted with a modified Japa skidding grapple, afterward gathered and piled (neatly in square stacks root end out).

I am happy enough with the fairly minimal ground disturbance involved.

We are still dithering about what to replant with.

Nice fertile brown earth on a flat to south facing aspect, land was previously in grass and tilled for beet in the past.

The Ash had been struggling to a degree due to grass competition.

I'd prefer short to medium rotation choices as i am getting older and the rest of the holding has a considerable portion of long rotation oak and beech.

There is already a portion of ADB (additional broadleaves) in the cleared plots, rowan, whitethorn, black walnut, spanish chestnut, wild cherry, hazel, and scots pine.

suggestions welcome,

we plan to replant this winter, although i am unsure whether or not the forest service will require that we leave the plot unplanted for 12 months post clearance or whether replanting this coming nov, dec, jan and feb would be acceptable.

some documentation of our work thus far here
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpsi5CNfvIq1UD6GvqOgj_w

pulling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-WUvjZtxE

piling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnnYoO65SI

Ash to ash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-T8md9izU


tim

St. Leibowitz

Jebus Tim, that's heartbreaking. So sorry lad.

tabby aspreme

It's hard to watch them burning Tim , after minding them and trying to get them to grow.
That's a great system for pulling up small trees, how many years are they planted.
When my time comes to replant, and it will , I would like to plant birch for short rotation and firewood with walnut and cherry for quality final crop , I also like Norway maple, I have about 100 and they grow well but deer are fond of them .

Genghis Cant

It's fairly sobering Tim.
Can I ask why you changed from pulling them up with a chain to the grapple?
You've a lor of work on your hands there. Best of luck with it.

Oldtree

I can't bring myself to watch your videos yet Tim. But well done on making a record.

Perhaps a bit of willow in the mix. A wide variety of Osier basket willows might give an income on a regular basis after the stools are set up. And some for medium term firewood and cricket bats .

Course willows are great as an early source of nectar so maby have a few hives going too.

blue5000

Tim all I can say is that's rough. Very tempted to say put in wall to wall sitka, none of us are getting any younger.

timfromtang

Genghis Cant wrote: »

It's fairly sobering Tim.
Can I ask why you changed from pulling them up with a chain to the grapple?
You've a lor of work on your hands there. Best of luck with it.

The Grapple was a little slower, but required only one man not two and so a bit more cost effective. Furthermore the constant bending and shuffling involved with the converted stillson tree puller and chain was really hard on my poor old body. The grapple was hard on the body too, lots of reversing.
Altogether the operation took 448 man hours, trees were uprooted, picked, piled, burned, grass cut, and site raked to remove leaf litter. 5.2 hectares or so. 14500 trees, just under 2 minutes a tree for the whole operation.

Bless my Wife and family and friends, I never would have got through the labour without their help.

tim

Danzy

timfromtang wrote: »

The Grapple was a little slower, but required only one man not two and so a bit more cost effective. Furthermore the constant bending and shuffling involved with the converted stillson tree puller and chain was really hard on my poor old body. The grapple was hard on the body too, lots of reversing.
Altogether the operation took 448 man hours, trees were uprooted, picked, piled, burned, grass cut, and site raked to remove leaf litter. 5.2 hectares or so. 14500 trees, just under 2 minutes a tree for the whole operation.

Bless my Wife and family and friends, I never would have got through the labour without their help.

tim

The decency that comes across in your videos is reflected in those who know you, in what is a tough job to do.

Oldtree

A timely video just put up by Teagasc.
(Dramatic music stab used for emphasis at the end of the video.:rolleyes:)

There are currently 384 forestry plantations with positive samples distributed over 24 counties:
Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Kildare, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Limerick, Longford, Louth,
Mayo, Meath, Monagan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary, Waterford, Westmeath, Wexford,
and Wicklow.

There are currently 17 counties with individual positive samples taken from trees in native hedgerows:
Cavan, Clare, Donegal, Galway, Kildare, Kilkenny, Leitrim, Limerick, Longford, Mayo, Meath, Monaghan,
Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary, Wexford, and Wicklow.

There are currently 14 counties with individual positive samples taken from trees in roadside / motorway
landscaping plantings:
Clare, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Kilkenny, Limerick, Laois, Louth, Meath, Monaghan, Offaly, Tipperary,
Waterford, and Westmeath.

New DOA map



looks less dramatic than the old style map