Who else is there? Who to replace Trap if he went tomorrow?

kitakyushu

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

United lost 6-1 at home to a City team that were actually on their level (unlike Ireland and Germany). Maybe Fergie should have been sacked too.

An international team may play about 10 games a year. So five games would represent half a season. Our last five games 1-3, 0-4, 0-2, 2-1*, 1-6. (* = losing 1-0 at 85 and deserved to lose on balance of play.)

By compairson I'd imagine if Fergie was handing in those sort of performances/results for half a season he'd be gone too.

Banjaxed82

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

monkey9 wrote: »

Oh please just shut up!! We're not all led by the media! How you can defend Trapattoni is laughable. We lost six one at home. End of story. On your bike Trap.

Lovely response. Very compelling case.

United lost 6-1 at home to a City team that were actually on their level (unlike Ireland and Germany). Maybe Fergie should have been sacked too.

Yes, cause this is all about last night's game. This has been going on longer than that.

Even ex players Kenny Cunningham and Kevin Kilbane (who played under trap) have said its time for him to go.

You know better than someone who actually played under Trap?

monkey9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Lovely response. Very compelling case.

United lost 6-1 at home to a City team that were actually on their level (unlike Ireland and Germany). Maybe Fergie should have been sacked too.

It's the response that post deserved. Why people defend Trapattoni is truly baffling. It's over. The game is up. The experiment is finished.

Felexicon

kitakyushu wrote: »

An international team may play about 10 games a year. So five games would represent half a season. Our last five games 1-3, 0-4, 0-2, 2-1*, 1-6. (* = losing 1-0 at 85 and deserved to lose on balance of play.)

By compairson I'd imagine if Fergie was handing in those sort of performances/results for half a season he'd be gone too.

Stupid to try and compare the two situations really.
As has already been said to you United are expected to win 95% of thier games easily.
Ireland are expected to beat international minnows

Pride Fighter

John Aldgridge might be a good shout. He would be cheap, was an ok manager at Tranmere and would get them playing with passion.

Probably all we could afford after paying off Trap and Tardelli.

Felexicon

Pride Fighter wrote: »

John Aldgridge might be a good shout. He would be cheap, was an ok manager at Tranmere and would get them playing with passion.

Probably all we could afford after paying off Trap and Tardelli.

This is a joke, yeah?

Chancer3001

I think we should go foreign again.

The candidates available to us now arent really good enough so makes sense.

Also, Trap to stay.

Losing to Germany is fine. With the different abilities Im surprised we didnt lose by more!! podolski and Kroos on the bench, either would be one of our best players of all time! Real Madrid, Bayern etc best players against a load of championship, russian, toronto and reserve players!

Others complaining about the euros....where we played BOTH finalists and a very very good Croat team.

Mr.Nice Guy

kitakyushu wrote: »

An international team may play about 10 games a year. So five games would represent half a season. Our last five games 1-3, 0-4, 0-2, 2-1*, 1-6. (* = losing 1-0 at 85 and deserved to lose on balance of play.)

By compairson I'd imagine if Fergie was handing in those sort of performances/results for half a season he'd be gone too.

Are you for real? We were at the bloomin' Euros taking on three top ten sides which is why we got those results. We were out of our depth. The fact we qualified at all was miraculous. We were the only team at the tournament without a Champions League player from the 11-12 season and had no players from a top four side.

Banjaxed82 wrote:

Yes, cause this is all about last night's game. This has been going on longer than that.

Even ex players Kenny Cunningham and Kevin Kilbane (who played under trap) have said its time for him to go.

You know better than someone who actually played under Trap?

Wow, this is your argument. Very well:

John O'Shea remains loyal to Trapattoni after German humiliation

The players are behind him and will give him a performance against the Faroes. I am confident of that.

monkey9 wrote:

It's the response that post deserved. Why people defend Trapattoni is truly baffling. It's over. The game is up. The experiment is finished.

It was a tabloid-style response. All emotion and no logic.

There's nothing to be baffled about. Two play-offs and a first tournament in ten years. A huge rise up the rankings to boot following on from the disastrous slide under Staunton that had us ranked below NI at one stage.
Still very much in contention for second place.

Why look at the facts though yeah when it's easy to get into hysterics following defeats to the likes of Croatia, Spain, Italy and Germany. Yeah we really should be beating that lot pretty handy.

Banjaxed82

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Wow, this is your argument. Very well:

John O'Shea remains loyal to Trapattoni after German humiliation

Yeah, cause John O'Shea is going to come out 3 days before the next match and say he doesn't support the manager. Of course he's going to come out with support. He's the captain and being professional about the situation.

You're going to have to do better than that.

The players are behind him and will give him a performance against the Faroes. I am confident of that.

How do you know this?

eagle eye

There is no realistic alternative that would do a better job than Trap imo. I've personally come to the conclusion that a huge part of the reason he is not liked is the struggle with communication in the media.

I know people don't like his style of football but I don't think we are capable of getting results with any other tactics.

Its clear that people are finally accepting that the Irish squad is lacking quality like possibly never before.

Mr.Nice Guy

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Yeah, cause John O'Shea is going to come out 3 days before the next match and say he doesn't support the manager. Of course he's going to come out with support. He's the captain and being professional about the situation.

You're going to have to do better than that.



How do you know this?

I love the contradiction in the fact you ask how I know the players are behind him - after I've just given you a link to a player pledging his support - and then go on to say what O'Shea cannot possibly say, as if you can possibly know this.

I go on evidence and facts.

We have lost four games this year to Croatia, Spain, Italy and Germany. It is not a team in crisis. The real crisis is in fans with unrealistic expectations of the team having to face up to our real place within world football right now. We've no world class players and had little to no chance against those sides who blatantly do.

kitakyushu

Felexicon wrote: »

Stupid to try and compare the two situations really.
As has already been said to you United are expected to win 95% of thier games easily.
Ireland are expected to beat international minnows

I didn't bring up this Manu v Ireland or league v qualifiers comparison and haven't even mentioned it prior to my previous post, so I'm amazed to hear that someone has said to me anything about 95% win expectations etc. Where was this precisely out of interest?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Are you for real? We were at the bloomin' Euros taking on three top ten sides which is why we got those results. We were out of our depth. The fact we qualified at all was miraculous. We were the only team at the tournament without a Champions League player from the 11-12 season and had no players from a top four side.

No, are you for real? Don't worry, I've already drawn my conclusion on that one. 16 goals conceded in five games and all you have to offer is that we were playing good opponents.

FlawedGenius

^^ Its not so much the results, its the manner of them and even the victories. His unbelievably stupid baffling team selections and playing players in there wrong positions that if his name wasn't Giovanni Trappatoni hed have been out on his arse straight after the euros. Playing O Dea in centre defence whos plying his trade for a bottom of the table club in the MLS when we have premiership defenders on the bench is just baffling and a sackable offence alone imo.

This with all his - not speaking the language adequately still after 4.5 years, not going to games in England, awful hoofbal tactics even when we are playing inferior teams and dont have to play that way. I could go on.....
Giving him a new contract before the euros could turn out to be a disastrous decision.
Get a new manager in now, there wont be much pressure on him to get 2nd in the group, it will at least give him time to try things before the euro campaign where he can have a good lash at it.

applehunter

Honestly I'd have no issue if Liam Buckley took over the reigns tomorrow. Former Irish international albeit 2 caps.

Look how he transformed that Pats team this year. And he knows 4-5-1/4-3-3 as well as anyone.

monkey9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a tabloid-style response. All emotion and no logic.

There's nothing to be baffled about. Two play-offs and a first tournament in ten years. A huge rise up the rankings to boot following on from the disastrous slide under Staunton that had us ranked below NI at one stage.
Still very much in contention for second place.

Why look at the facts though yeah when it's easy to get into hysterics following defeats to the likes of Croatia, Spain, Italy and Germany. Yeah we really should be beating that lot pretty handy.

Oh it's a tabloid style response now, is it? :rolleyes:

You're seriously suggesting that after last night, not just the result but the way it came about, that Trapattoni is the man for the job?? You're actually saying that, are you??

That i should spend seventy euro to go and watch complete and utter bullsh!t because Trapattoni has no other vision for that group of players??

That the likes of Mick McCarthy couldn't instill more belief and fight into that squad of players??

Get a grip! Trapattoni doesn't even go to matches.

Rekop dog

Micks record with struggling teams at the highest level is pretty dire, he recorded some pretty shocking points totals with Sunderland, can't see how he'd improve us in any way,this Irish team is ridiculously inferior to the one he managed before. His record pales in comparison to Trapps.

Fr Tod Umptious

eh i dunno wrote: »

Joe Royle. Reckon he could make a similar impact as Big Jack

Excuse me but what year are we in, 1996 ?

A_Sober_Paddy

All this talk about how we have on world class players and the player's are the problem. I'll accept that too a point but let me point out a few things

1- Lost by the same margin as San Marino at the hands of England. Germany treated us as if we were minnow's
2- With regard's to our poor players, we have premiership players on the bench while weaker players play. Clark > O Dea, Wilson > Ward, Long > Cox.
3- Also playing players in the wrong position... If your playing Cox On the left as it seems he was last night then, Brady, Hunt, McClean...or any other winger would be better than playing a striker dutch of position.
4- Also seemed to be no passion in our performance last night. Think the manager needs to take responsibility for some of that.

Felexicon

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

All this talk about how we have on world class players and the player's are the problem. I'll accept that too a point but let me point out a few things

1- Lost by the same margin as San Marino at the hands of England. Germany treated us as if we were minnow's
2- With regard's to our poor players, we have premiership players on the bench while weaker players play. Clark > O Dea, Wilson > Ward, Long > Cox.
3- Also playing players in the wrong position... If your playing Cox On the left as it seems he was last night then, Brady, Hunt, McClean...or any other winger would be better than playing a striker dutch of position.
4- Also seemed to be no passion in our performance last night. Think the manager needs to take responsibility for some of that.

1. Germany are a far better side than England and you can't really compare scores in that way to show a teams level
2. Wilson and Clarke have never played a competitive international. Do you think having 3 of our back 4 making thier debuts would have improved the perfoance last night? Also Shane Long has had one too many run ins with Trap and won't start an important game while he's manager( I don't agree with this btw)
3. Agreed
4. NO. The one thing you can't blame the manager on is the lack of pride the players showed last night. You can make a case for him being at fault for everything else though.

aramush

I'm surprised I haven't heard the name Terry Venibles yet, he's the bad smell that has been linked with every Ireland job since big dick mick left.

A_Sober_Paddy

Felexicon wrote: »

1. Germany are a far better side than England and you can't really compare scores in that way to show a teams level
2. Wilson and Clarke have never played a competitive international. Do you think having 3 of our back 4 making thier debuts would have improved the perfoance last night? Also Shane Long has had one too many run ins with Trap and won't start an important game while he's manager( I don't agree with this btw)
3. Agreed
4. NO. The one thing you can't blame the manager on is the lack of pride the players showed last night. You can make a case for him being at fault for everything else though.

They are much better(Top 3 in the World IMO), but we should be better than San Marino more so, than Germany are better than England




*900th Post*

Felexicon

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

They are much better(Top 3 in the World IMO), but we should be better than San Marino more so, than Germany are better than England

That's my point though. You can't say that because we got beaten by Germany by 5 goals and San Marino got beaten by England by 5 goals that means we are on the same level as San Marino.

grenache

homerjay2005 wrote: »

martinr5232 wrote: »

Id love to see Chris Hughton given a chance he seems to be able to manage mediocre players quite well.

:eek::eek::eek::eek: the lad is a donkey, is out of his dept when it comes to top level, so how do we know it wont be the same as last night?

he just does not seem to get the respect of players.

Coyle and Strachan are good shouts though, now we are talking.

For Coyle see Hughton. Both are cases of the Emperor's New Clothes.

I especially couldn't bare listening to Coyle, nobody moans and exaggerates quite like him.

buyer95

If Keano would take it(which he wont unless Delaney comes grovelling, there is way too much bad blood there). I'd have him tomorrow, a better pick than Mick imo, he would at the very least instill some passion in the Irish team

A_Sober_Paddy

Felexicon wrote: »

That's my point though. You can't say that because we got beaten by Germany by 5 goals and San Marino got beaten by England by 5 goals that means we are on the same level as San Marino.

I'm not saying that...I'll give ratings to each team team in the equation.

Germany 98
Ireland 70

England 90
San Marino 5

Gulf in ratings are massive, the ratings I've attached are pulked out of my ass granted, so I'll use ranking positions in stead

Germany 2
Ireland 28

England 5
San Marino 207

Now it looks a little easier, the gulf between ourselves and Germany isn't one tenth the difference between England and San Marino but last night it was relatively the same...I'm only using this to illustrate and contextualise the margain of the defeat we suffered and nothing more

Super-Rush

Rafa Benitez for the meltdown it would cause in here.

On a serious note i'd have Brian Kerr or John Aldridge.

A_Sober_Paddy

buyer95 wrote: »

If Keano would take it(which he wont unless Delaney comes grovelling, there is way too much bad blood there). I'd have him tomorrow, a better pick than Mick imo, he would at the very least instill some passion in the Irish team

Roy Keane 181 70 42 69 38.67
Mick McCarthy 672 264 175 233 39.29

Roy spent a fortune a Sunderland, also signed a lot of average players, while Mick has worked within smaller budgets and achieved things with smaller clubs.

Also Mick has experience at bringing through the next generation as he did it when he first took charge of Ireland and thats what we need again, we have some good young players coming through but they won't get the games under Trap.

Hannibal

It's ridiculous that people are coming Ireland v Germany to the England v San Marino match as some sort of barometer. No two matches are the same regardless of scoreline, you also have to factor in tactics as well.

If you picked our best team four months ago, we were without 7 of those players last night. Germany over the last years are second only to Spain in terms of results and performances, they beat us by a 5 goal margain but also beat a Holland team then ranked above them by a 3 goal margain less than a year ago.

This current crop of players is the worst we've had in a long time, we have some top players coming to the end like Keane, Dunne, Duff and Given but no top players coming through to replace them. Granted we have some good players but none of them are top level, take your pick from the last 20 or so years with players like Roy Keane, Whelan, McGrath, Aldridge, Lawrenson and we have nobody approaching their quality in the ranks.

Trapattoni presided over two excellent qualifying campaigns and got rewarded by being drawn in the toughest group in the Euros by which we had no chance and then we get a WC group containing Germany and a Swedish team who have an enviable record of getting to major tournaments so yes we've been unlucky.

So if Trap did leave who replaces him?
I've seen Liam Buckley, Alan Mathews, McLeish, Curbishley, Coyle, Hughton, Aldridge, Strachan all mentioned here and it's hard to fathom if the people mentioning them have been smoking something.
Then there's people mentioning Martin O'Neill.. he'll never leave Sunderland to come here. Redknapp would require £5m per year and Rafa Benitez has had offers from Russia offering more than £5m so it's obvious money (that we dont have) wouldn't persuade him.
I'm sure Dalglish, Souness, Eriksson, O'Leary, Kinnear, Jewell, Troussier and probably Roddy Collins are all floating around peoples minds but personally I've little doubt that Traps replacement will be Marco Tardelli.. I do think Kerr and McCarthy would do a better than job than nearly all of the names mentioned aswell

buyer95

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Roy Keane 181 70 42 69 38.67
Mick McCarthy 672 264 175 233 39.29

Roy spent a fortune a Sunderland, also signed a lot of average players, while Mick has worked within smaller budgets and achieved things with smaller clubs.

Also Mick has experience at bringing through the next generation as he did it when he first took charge of Ireland and thats what we need again, we have some good young players coming through but they won't get the games under Trap.

Infairness both have had ups and down. Mick led Sunderland to the worst ever P.L record and also relegated Wolves. Keane
did well at Sunderland initially before it all went wrong. At Ipswich Keane inherited a poor bunch of players(as evidenced by Paul Jewell coming in and enjoying zero success.) and was given no money to spend.

Hannibal

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Roy Keane 181 70 42 69 38.67
Mick McCarthy 672 264 175 233 39.29

Roy spent a fortune a Sunderland, also signed a lot of average players, while Mick has worked within smaller budgets and achieved things with smaller clubs.

Also Mick has experience at bringing through the next generation as he did it when he first took charge of Ireland and thats what we need again, we have some good young players coming through but they won't get the games under Trap.

only Keane and O'Shea are over 30 in that squad

A_Sober_Paddy

Dotsey wrote: »

only Keane and O'Shea are over 30 in that squad

I'm more referring to bringing through the players who are to replace Given, Dunne, O Shea, Duff & Keane long term.

Also
Andrews(32)

On top of some of our best players being the wrong side of 30, there are a number of players who have been used over the last number of years, but now have better options. I use the example of Stephan Ward at left back, 2 years before he shifted Kilbane, he was playing great stuff, but his form dipped and became inconsistent then breaks into the starting line up So it was only when he started to play poor he broke in. We lost out on using him while he was playing his best stuff, I'd just fear that may happen with some of our other players...

Maybe Players like
Clark
Wilson
Long

Players who should all have been playing last night. Want to make the argument for these players not having enough experience, well that's trap's fault. Use them in the friendlies...

We have many players who play week in week out in the EPL but don't start(or make the squad) for us, instead we have Darren O'Dea(who couldn't find a championship/SPL club to sign him) starting...

The reason I refer to the England San Marino game is just to show how much we were schooled last night but a Germany side who looked like they didn't care, they treated us as if we were minnows

Also all this Redknapp talk is nonsense, also his tactically inept he won't be able to buy players as a national team manager...As he did with all his sides, buy, buy, buy and dump whatever doesn't work out or leave them rot in the reserves...Dos Santos

Mr. Guappa

Dotsey wrote: »

only Keane and O'Shea are over 30 in that squad

Our starting XI in the play-off game in Paris:

Given
O'Shea, Dunne, St. Ledger, Kilbane
Lawrence, Whelan, Andrews, Duff
Keane, Doyle

Our starting XI vs Italy at Euro 2012 (2.5 years later)

Given
O'Shea, Dunne, St. Ledger, Ward
McGeady, Whelan, Andrews, Duff
Keane, Doyle

Those line-ups demonstrate Traps steadfast refusal to introduce, or even contemplate introducing, the likes of Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Gibson, or even Hoolahan, Pilkington and Clark into the first XI reckoning, or indeed squad reckoning.

We all know that we can't match Germany, Spain or Italy for natural ability, but our managers failure to maximise his available resources, and develop the promising talent at his disposal is, frankly, a disgrace.

His squads for serious fixtures are disgustingly predictable, and his team selections follow that pattern. Coleman, Wilson and McCarthy in particular should be, at least, established squad members at this stage, but Trap wasted squad places and playing minutes on the likes of McShane, Green and Keogh instead. Indefensible.

I'm sure that players and managers fall out regularly, but Trap holds a grudge like no other. He has had rows/miscommunications with McClean, Gibson, Foley, Long, McCarthy, Wilson, Hunt. We don't have an unlimited pool of players so these issues are a real problem, and Trap never seems to make a move to mend these issues.

KELTICKNIGHTT

theres no point talking about replacement manger as trap is in contract for 1.4 million per year which was renew before going to euro's, and don't see FAI being able to buy him out, Do you ?

plus going by euro's , even if we got to Brazil, probably same thing like happened in euros happen again,

Ireland not only need new management , but we need a better restricted team and plus we haven't had a leader on the field in long time ,

even if Ireland was 100% , we would have been lucky with a draw, but we where taken apart, so called pro's on the field didn't know what to do , i didn't even watch last 5 mins of game , i couldn't ,

time to get rid old guard of players and build and get some passion back

Ireland need better management and as i said already which haven't in long time a real leader on the field

but to be realistic, trap not going to walk out and FAI can't afford to buy him out

so maybe we need luck again and the passion thats being missing for long time

we all know after trap is gone when ever that is, FAI will hire a worse manger and then maybe a better one, they always do

trap need to step up to what happened and so should the players , so called pro's are not kids

gosplan

Blaming squad selection is a load of simplistic nonsense.

Blaming Trap not attending matches is a load of nonsense.

Blaming the language barrier is a load of nonsense.

There are two things that will prevent us from doing well from here on under Trap.

1: His tactics are outdated. You can't play an old style 4-4-2 against a 4-5-1 when playing against good technical players. Possession is king these days and we're not able to keep it or win it back. I realise that we've switched formation recently but I don't think Trap is playing to his strengths any more.

2: Since the Euros, the players have lost heart.


Obviously though, Trap deserves this campaign. To suggest otherwise is retarded.

niallo27

Super-Rush wrote: »

Rafa Benitez for the meltdown it would cause in here.

On a serious note i'd have Brian Kerr or John Aldridge.

He would probably win the world cup and everyone would say, ya but it was traps team that won it.

PHB

I don't really care about qualifying for this tournament. I think we're in transition as a team, and I think we need to put all of our focus on developing young players. I also think we need to have more creativity in the team if we're going to go anywhere. Not a huge amount more, we're a **** squad and will always rely on hard work and organisation, but a little more creativity so that we can actually do something with the ball is required.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

I don't really care about qualifying for this tournament. I think we're in transition as a team, and I think we need to put all of our focus on developing young players. I also think we need to have more creativity in the team if we're going to go anywhere. Not a huge amount more, we're a **** squad and will always rely on hard work and organisation, but a little more creativity so that we can actually do something with the ball is required.

Trap out so

Oranage2

The team is so bad at the moment I dont think it's worthwhile giving it to a top manager, there is really nothing to be done it. As for Trap, I hate the way he's being hounded like this, he got us to the Euros for the first time in like 24 years, we had better teams in the last 24 years that couldnt get there.


Truth is we are sh!t.

PHB

PHB wrote: »

I don't really care about qualifying for this tournament. I think we're in transition as a team, and I think we need to put all of our focus on developing young players. I also think we need to have more creativity in the team if we're going to go anywhere. Not a huge amount more, we're a **** squad and will always rely on hard work and organisation, but a little more creativity so that we can actually do something with the ball is required.

Considering how long it's been since Ireland qualified for a world cup, I'd say alot of people disagree with your opening line.

You make some good points after that though.

Fr Tod Umptious

gosplan wrote: »

Blaming squad selection is a load of simplistic nonsense.

Blaming Trap not attending matches is a load of nonsense.

Blaming the language barrier is a load of nonsense.

There are two things that will prevent us from doing well from here on under Trap.

1: His tactics are outdated. You can't play an old style 4-4-2 against a 4-5-1 when playing against good technical players. Possession is king these days and we're not able to keep it or win it back. I realise that we've switched formation recently but I don't think Trap is playing to his strengths any more.

2: Since the Euros, the players have lost heart.


Obviously though, Trap deserves this campaign. To suggest otherwise is retarded.

I don't get the last statement, why does Trap deserve this campaign ?

The performance in the last 5 competitive games has been beyond atrocious, and I cannot see where an improvement is going to com from under this current regime, so clearly a change needs to take place.


Obviously there are contractual problems preventing a quick change but the idea that Trap deserves something is beyond me

Banjaxed82

Where ever you stand on the Trap debate. This interview from newstalk yesterday makes for interesting listening:

http://media.newstalk.ie/newstalk/media_uploads/upload_mp3/KennyKiller.mp3

A_Sober_Paddy

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

theres no point talking about replacement manger as trap is in contract for 1.4 million per year which was renew before going to euro's, and don't see FAI being able to buy him out, Do you ?

plus going by euro's , even if we got to Brazil, probably same thing like happened in euros happen again,

Ireland not only need new management , but we need a better restricted team and plus we haven't had a leader on the field in long time ,

even if Ireland was 100% , we would have been lucky with a draw, but we where taken apart, so called pro's on the field didn't know what to do , i didn't even watch last 5 mins of game , i couldn't ,

time to get rid old guard of players and build and get some passion back

Ireland need better management and as i said already which haven't in long time a real leader on the field

but to be realistic, trap not going to walk out and FAI can't afford to buy him out

so maybe we need luck again and the passion thats being missing for long time

we all know after trap is gone when ever that is, FAI will hire a worse manger and then maybe a better one, they always do

trap need to step up to what happened and so should the players , so called pro's are not kids

People here have no problem that we lost, it was the manner of the defeat, that with the shocking performances and results in our last 4 previous game. If we lose a game all well and good, but when we get hammered, look unorganised and without passion.

That's why people are unhappy. Also with the managers unwillingness to bring in different players or try different players, when what his normally done has stopped being effective

gosplan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't get the last statement, why does Trap deserve this campaign ?

The performance in the last 5 competitive games has been beyond atrocious, and I cannot see where an improvement is going to com from under this current regime, so clearly a change needs to take place.


Obviously there are contractual problems preventing a quick change but the idea that Trap deserves something is beyond me

Because of his record in qualifying campaigns. He's now in his third qualifying campaign and that's his second match lost in the qualifying group stage.

Obviously whether or not there's any point in qualifying is up for debate but if you go by his record then one of two things will happen.

1: We'll finish third having lost to Sweden or if they mess up we'll get to a play off and lose that when drawn against someone better than us.

2: We'll get an easy draw in the play off, arrive at the world cup, narrowly beat the Saudi Arabia type team in our group and get shown up against the Mexico and Spain ones.



I agree with your points but it's important to note that our performances under Trap have always been atrocious. Nonetheless we've always manged to get three points where we should be getting three points, and this has moved Ireland forwards in the ranking, something his predecessors couldn't manage since 2002.

If it's this vrs the average Irish managerial performance over the last two decades, then I take this. Secure ranking, give Trap a chance - all his records show he'll have us in the mix towards the end, and then change at a natural time in the WC/Euros cycle.


Also, I think pointing to the last five games doesn't give a fair reflection. Southampton lost the first four game this season by a cumulative score of 14-4 or something. do we take into account that they played Arsenal, City and Utd or do we just sack the manager?

All that said, I think it's clear we'll never do well against a top level team but Trap still has a chance in this group depending on how well Sweden do.

edgecutter

The FAI pay his wages and they should demand more from him.

Every job I have done, if the boss told me to do a job and I said "nah I can't be bothered" I would be out on my head.

It's down to the FAI now to make trap get to work and demand he selects the appropriate players from now on.

Ferris_Bueller

I think a lot of people are being overly harsh on Trap, I agree it's time to go but he done a good job for 4 years, I think he deserves more respect than we are giving him at the moment.

When a new manager comes in he is going to have a battle on his hands, the squad is very limited at the moment and is really at (what should be) a transition stage. Haven't got a clue who we will go for, didn't expect Staunton when he was appointed and didn't expect Trap this time around, but I really hope it's not Tardelli who stays on, the squad needs a new boost. Another thing I'd be worried about if we appointed a foreign manager, is that he might not have the concern for long term plans for the team, similar to Trap. If we got in an Irish manager I'd at least hope he would have some concern for what happens with the team after he leaves, so might try to blood through young players.

My choice at the minute would be McCarthy or Kerr, think both of them could do a reasonable job, have experience having managed us before, both been relatively successful since leaving us, and would assume both would be affordable and probably open to taking the job. Having said all this though, I still think Trap will be here until this qualifying campaign is over, unless he chooses to walk before then.

Hannibal

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Our starting XI in the play-off game in Paris:

Given
O'Shea, Dunne, St. Ledger, Kilbane
Lawrence, Whelan, Andrews, Duff
Keane, Doyle

Our starting XI vs Italy at Euro 2012 (2.5 years later)

Given
O'Shea, Dunne, St. Ledger, Ward
McGeady, Whelan, Andrews, Duff
Keane, Doyle

Those line-ups demonstrate Traps steadfast refusal to introduce, or even contemplate introducing, the likes of Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Gibson, or even Hoolahan, Pilkington and Clark into the first XI reckoning, or indeed squad reckoning.

We all know that we can't match Germany, Spain or Italy for natural ability, but our managers failure to maximise his available resources, and develop the promising talent at his disposal is, frankly, a disgrace.

His squads for serious fixtures are disgustingly predictable, and his team selections follow that pattern. Coleman, Wilson and McCarthy in particular should be, at least, established squad members at this stage, but Trap wasted squad places and playing minutes on the likes of McShane, Green and Keogh instead. Indefensible.

I'm sure that players and managers fall out regularly, but Trap holds a grudge like no other. He has had rows/miscommunications with McClean, Gibson, Foley, Long, McCarthy, Wilson, Hunt. We don't have an unlimited pool of players so these issues are a real problem, and Trap never seems to make a move to mend these issues.

Managers see different things in players, I do agree that McCarthy Wilson and Coleman in particular have deserved a better chance to impress and more recently McClean has come into this bracket.

I do believe if Trap wasn't in his 70's then most of this circus wouldn't be around him, it's ageism at it's best. Having 9 members of your team the same over a 2.5 year period isn't unusual giving our limited pool of players playing at the top level, Given Dunne Keane Doyle Duff Whelan and O'Shea are head and shoulders above what is behind them during that period. We were performing well enough over that 2/3 year period for all them players to keep their places and the likes of McCarthy, McClean, Coleman were too young to break into the first XI. I see that Gibson and Hoolahan have been mentioned, if Hoolahan had've come up against Ozil Reus Schweinsteiger etc the other night it would have been more than 6.

The fact of the matter is at this moment we have a good clutch of youngsters available but none of them look to be at the level of Keane, Dunne, Duff, Given were capable of producing over their careers and I'd even put a certain Mr Ireland into that bracket.

The best thing about the other nights results is that it only comes into effect if we draw level on points with Germany, our place in the play offs will be won and lost against Sweden and Austria. Hopefully Ward and O'Dea done enough the other night for them not to play again. This Germany team are phenomenal and are very unlucky not to be current World and Euro champions so the important thing now is to get behind the players and hopefully we beat a difficult Faroes team and take 6 points from our opening two away games in this group. Trap's record in the previous two campaigns means he deserves the chance to at least see out this campaign, and if we're well out of contention at an early stage then we could change and experiment but I think we've a good chance against a poor Austrian and an aging Sweden team.

SirDelboy18

Brian McDermott is the best option without question in my view and to be perfectly honest I am shocked that he has only been mentioned once in this entire thread.

He has a wealth of experience, especially with younger players which is so important and has already declared his ambition to manage Ireland too - although he would probably only take the post next summer at the earliest.

He has managed to guide Reading into the top flight and has only spent an extremely small amount in transfer fees this summer - especially compared to the other promoted clubs.

He has Reading playing an attractive brand of football and he was responsible for re-igniting the career of Shane Long which had heavily stagnated under Brendan Rodgers. He has a great relationship with his players and has been one of the most impressive managers of the last 2 years.

For me, he is the only choice.

SirDelboy18

Dotsey wrote: »

Managers see different things in players, I do agree that McCarthy Wilson and Coleman in particular have deserved a better chance to impress and more recently McClean has come into this bracket.

I do believe if Trap wasn't in his 70's then most of this circus wouldn't be around him, it's ageism at it's best. Having 9 members of your team the same over a 2.5 year period isn't unusual giving our limited pool of players playing at the top level, Given Dunne Keane Doyle Duff Whelan and O'Shea are head and shoulders above what is behind them during that period. We were performing well enough over that 2/3 year period for all them players to keep their places and the likes of McCarthy, McClean, Coleman were too young to break into the first XI. I see that Gibson and Hoolahan have been mentioned, if Hoolahan had've come up against Ozil Reus Schweinsteiger etc the other night it would have been more than 6.

The fact of the matter is at this moment we have a good clutch of youngsters available but none of them look to be at the level of Keane, Dunne, Duff, Given were capable of producing over their careers and I'd even put a certain Mr Ireland into that bracket.

The best thing about the other nights results is that it only comes into effect if we draw level on points with Germany, our place in the play offs will be won and lost against Sweden and Austria. Hopefully Ward and O'Dea done enough the other night for them not to play again. This Germany team are phenomenal and are very unlucky not to be current World and Euro champions so the important thing now is to get behind the players and hopefully we beat a difficult Faroes team and take 6 points from our opening two away games in this group. Trap's record in the previous two campaigns means he deserves the chance to at least see out this campaign, and if we're well out of contention at an early stage then we could change and experiment but I think we've a good chance against a poor Austrian and an aging Sweden team.

This is what really irks me.

First, this view of Germany of inevitable victors regardless of who was managing/playing is complete and utter rubbish. I can draw on matches from as recent as the Euros -
- V Denmark where Denmark were denied an obvious penalty to go 2-1 ahead in the final 10 minutes, having matched Germany for most of the game.

Had we set up correctly, selecting our best players, with a competent manager and some belief that has typified Irish teams of the past then we could undoubtedly have gotten at least a draw from this fixture. Steve Staunton managed to hold Germany to a home draw in his campaign - in the qualifying campaign which followed Germany losing to Italy in the semi finals of a major tournament.

We have good, mostly young, capable players who have constantly been ignored by this disgrace of a manager - Ciaran Clark, Darron Gibson, Marc Wilson, James McClean, Anthony Pilkington, Wes Hoolahan, Seamus Coleman, Alex Pearce, Joey O'Brien, Shane Long, (and up until very recently) James McCarthy. These players are better than the likes of Stephen Ward, Darren O'Dea, Sean St Ledger, Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Paul Green, Simon Cox - Not only are the players Trap is ignoring better, they are significantly better.

He has destroyed team morale to an extent that it has become a regularity to see somebody either withdrawing or speaking out - alienating some of the best players we have. The treatment he has given to the likes of Darron Gibson, Shane Long, Steven Reid is inexcusable. And that is without even considering the fact that he probably doesn't know some of the others exist.

When Liam Brady was questioned on Trap's knowledge of the existence of Hoolahan the other night, his response was that the two of them had "seen him a few years ago". Kind of sums it up really.

We do have modern day answers to Dunne, Duff and Keane. If only we had the manager in place capable of giving them a chance.

Trap Out - McDermott In.

professore

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I thought the English were bad wanting Redknapp instead of Capello and here are Irish fans calling for the same. Couldn't make it up.

We are a poor lot. That is the unpleasant fact. There is a reason why Schweinsteiger and Xavi and other top players when asked to talk about Ireland's threat make reference to Trap - BECAUSE WE HAVE NO WORLD CLASS PLAYERS THAT THEY FEAR.

We have about the same quality as Scotland and Wales and have managed to punch above their weight due to our manager. When this media campaign led by the tabloid rags is successful the majority will rue the day they hounded a superbly qualified man out of the job.

So you're one of these people who support someone for past glories, regardless of how poor they are now?

Trap has been incredibly lucky to qualify for the Euros, Estonia in the playoff FFS. His luck has run out now though, awful display in the Euros, but stuck with the same formation and players. Kazakhstan played us off the field, and only by bringing on Long, a player who should have started, did we get out of jail.

His policy of selecting second string older players ahead of younger premiership players, and playing people out of position speaks for itself. He has to go. My dad has a theory that he actually wants to be sacked, and I think he might be right. Many of his selections have been downright bizarre.

Anyway on topic, I'd have Brian Kerr back.

gosplan

professore wrote: »

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I thought the English were bad wanting Redknapp instead of Capello and here are Irish fans calling for the same. Couldn't make it up.

We are a poor lot. That is the unpleasant fact. There is a reason why Schweinsteiger and Xavi and other top players when asked to talk about Ireland's threat make reference to Trap - BECAUSE WE HAVE NO WORLD CLASS PLAYERS THAT THEY FEAR.

We have about the same quality as Scotland and Wales and have managed to punch above their weight due to our manager. When this media campaign led by the tabloid rags is successful the majority will rue the day they hounded a superbly qualified man out of the job.

So you're one of these people who support someone for past glories, regardless of how poor they are now?

Trap has been incredibly lucky to qualify for the Euros, Estonia in the playoff FFS. His luck has run out now though, awful display in the Euros, but stuck with the same formation and players. Kazakhstan played us off the field, and only by bringing on Long, a player who should have started, did we get out of jail.

His policy of selecting second string older players ahead of younger premiership players, and playing people out of position speaks for itself. He has to go. My dad has a theory that he actually wants to be sacked, and I think he might be right. Many of his selections have been downright bizarre.

Anyway on topic, I'd have Brian Kerr back.

I'd love to see Kerr offered the job just so he could tell the FAI and the media to go fcuk themselves.