Who else is there? Who to replace Trap if he went tomorrow?

professore

Dotsey wrote: »

Managers see different things in players, I do agree that McCarthy Wilson and Coleman in particular have deserved a better chance to impress and more recently McClean has come into this bracket.

I do believe if Trap wasn't in his 70's then most of this circus wouldn't be around him, it's ageism at it's best. Having 9 members of your team the same over a 2.5 year period isn't unusual giving our limited pool of players playing at the top level, Given Dunne Keane Doyle Duff Whelan and O'Shea are head and shoulders above what is behind them during that period. We were performing well enough over that 2/3 year period for all them players to keep their places and the likes of McCarthy, McClean, Coleman were too young to break into the first XI. I see that Gibson and Hoolahan have been mentioned, if Hoolahan had've come up against Ozil Reus Schweinsteiger etc the other night it would have been more than 6.

The fact of the matter is at this moment we have a good clutch of youngsters available but none of them look to be at the level of Keane, Dunne, Duff, Given were capable of producing over their careers and I'd even put a certain Mr Ireland into that bracket.

The best thing about the other nights results is that it only comes into effect if we draw level on points with Germany, our place in the play offs will be won and lost against Sweden and Austria. Hopefully Ward and O'Dea done enough the other night for them not to play again. This Germany team are phenomenal and are very unlucky not to be current World and Euro champions so the important thing now is to get behind the players and hopefully we beat a difficult Faroes team and take 6 points from our opening two away games in this group. Trap's record in the previous two campaigns means he deserves the chance to at least see out this campaign, and if we're well out of contention at an early stage then we could change and experiment but I think we've a good chance against a poor Austrian and an aging Sweden team.

German results so far:
Austria 0 - 1 Germany
Ireland 1 - 6 Germany

By your reasoning, Austria are nearly as good as Germany and should comfortably beat us, ditto Sweden. In fact the Faroes should get a result against us at home. I agree with this analysis, IF TRAP STAYS IN CHARGE !!!!

With the right management we can field a team that can run the Germans close on a good day, and not lose more than 2-0 on a very bad day.

Oat23

The national manager of Ireland is massively overpaid. F**k off with the Redknapp and whoever else talk, the guy should not be paid more than €600k a year which brings us in line with the likes of Scotland, Norway and Denmark. That is still 4 times more than Slaven Bilic earns with Croatia.

The Irish NT manager should not be earning more than the managers of Spain, Portugal and France. Those teams and national organisations are light years ahead of us.

Use the left over €1.9m in savings per year to pay off some debt and invest in youth infrastructure, also give the LOI back its prize fund.

Ardent

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Thats why my vote would be Brian Kerr because I feel he got a raw deal the first time round.

Unfortunately he would get a raw deal again if he was ever re-appointed. Fans of the Irish national football team have unrealisitic expectations.

Neeson

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

This is what really irks me.

First, this view of Germany of inevitable victors regardless of who was managing/playing is complete and utter rubbish. I can draw on matches from as recent as the Euros -
- V Denmark where Denmark were denied an obvious penalty to go 2-1 ahead in the final 10 minutes, having matched Germany for most of the game.

You can't be comparing Denmark to Ireland either. They'd beat them off the field more often than not. I'd say the team is in decline, it happens to all teams. Not that I like Trap either.

SirDelboy18

Neeson wrote: »

You can't be comparing Denmark to Ireland either. They'd beat them off the field more often than not. I'd say the team is in decline, it happens to all teams. Not that I like Trap either.

How would they? Denmark and Ireland are extremely comparable in terms of personnel - if we were to pick the right players.

ebbsy

Brian Kerr was a very poor manager of Ireland - could'nt get us to the playoffs even for 2006 ( did we even finish behind Israel ?). I remember the Switzerland game at home, one of the most gutless performances ever. No direction from the sideline whatsoever. Switzerland sitting high up the pitch and us unable to break them down and solve the puzzle.

Neeson

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

How would they? Denmark and Ireland are extremely comparable in terms of personnel - if we were to pick the right players.

I'd say they've better footballing brains than the Ireland squad.

gosplan

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

How would they? Denmark and Ireland are extremely comparable in terms of personnel - if we were to pick the right players.

But you're picking the most successful team that you could make a comparison with. Why not compare us to Scotland or Wales?

SantryRed

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Brian McDermott is the best option without question in my view and to be perfectly honest I am shocked that he has only been mentioned once in this entire thread.

He has a wealth of experience, especially with younger players which is so important and has already declared his ambition to manage Ireland too - although he would probably only take the post next summer at the earliest.

He has managed to guide Reading into the top flight and has only spent an extremely small amount in transfer fees this summer - especially compared to the other promoted clubs.

He has Reading playing an attractive brand of football and he was responsible for re-igniting the career of Shane Long which had heavily stagnated under Brendan Rodgers. He has a great relationship with his players and has been one of the most impressive managers of the last 2 years.

For me, he is the only choice.

As if he would leave Reading :pac:

SantryRed

ebbsy wrote: »

Brian Kerr was a very poor manager of Ireland - could'nt get us to the playoffs even for 2006 ( did we even finish behind Israel ?). I remember the Switzerland game at home, one of the most gutless performances ever. No direction from the sideline whatsoever. Switzerland sitting high up the pitch and us unable to break them down and solve the puzzle.

What differences is there between Kerr and Trappatoni except a bit of luck? Go on, I'm intrigued.

The Little Fella

Going with the expectation of getting something off Germany the other night was being very very optimistic though the manner of the performance overall was shocking.

However, what i would be looking for is something more realistic, ok we're not going to beat the big guns out there but we should be able to show that teams that are much worse than us i.e. the kazaks, armenians and the faroes coming up, that they are vastly inferior to us while also being tough to beat at home against the better teams.

We may have a fairly **** team at the moment but there are a lot more ****ter teams than us.

The_Kew_Tour

Thing is if Trap picked best team on paper we would not look too bad.

What you would not do for Mark Kinsella or Matt Holland type players now when they were in shadow of Keane.

ironbluedun

Trap won't step down, that would be the honourable thing to do.

If anyone thinks Roy Keane should be next, well trap please stay.

FlawedGenius

People naming McDermott as a possible candidate, has he got any Irish roots apart from the name??? What makes people think he would leave his job in the premiership to manage us?

applehunter

FlawedGenius wrote: »

People naming McDermott as a possible candidate, has he got any Irish roots apart from the name??? What makes people think he would leave his job in the premiership to manage us?

I heard him interviewed on Newstalk before the start of Premier League season and he named the Ireland job as the "ultimate"

His parents are Irish. His father is a Sligo Rovers fan.

Hannibal

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

We have good, mostly young, capable players who have constantly been ignored by this disgrace of a manager - Ciaran Clark, Darron Gibson, Marc Wilson, James McClean, Anthony Pilkington, Wes Hoolahan, Seamus Coleman, Alex Pearce, Joey O'Brien, Shane Long, (and up until very recently) James McCarthy. These players are better than the likes of Stephen Ward, Darren O'Dea, Sean St Ledger, Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Paul Green, Simon Cox - Not only are the players Trap is ignoring better, they are significantly better.

He has destroyed team morale to an extent that it has become a regularity to see somebody either withdrawing or speaking out - alienating some of the best players we have. The treatment he has given to the likes of Darron Gibson, Shane Long, Steven Reid is inexcusable. And that is without even considering the fact that he probably doesn't know some of the others exist.

When Liam Brady was questioned on Trap's knowledge of the existence of Hoolahan the other night, his response was that the two of them had "seen him a few years ago". Kind of sums it up really.

We do have modern day answers to Dunne, Duff and Keane. If only we had the manager in place capable of giving them a chance.

Trap Out - McDermott In.

Whelan, Andrews and St Ledger were in our first XI on merit for a number of years and proved themselves highly reliable and done nothing to lose their jersey.

Alex Pearce has only recently declared for Ireland, Hoolahan and Pilkington ain't good enough and have struggled so far this season for Norwich. Joey O'Brien and Steven Reid are stop-start due to injury problems hence why Reid retired two years ago. Gibson has an excellent shot but little else in truth.

Duff, Dunne, Keane, Given were all top class playing for good clubs.. none of our up and coming players are in this situation. Look at our teams from 20 or so years ago and you see players throughout the squad with experience of winning and competing for major trophies.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Thing is if Trap picked best team on paper we would not look too bad.

What you would not do for Mark Kinsella or Matt Holland type players now when they were in shadow of Keane.

Kinsella and Holland were both seasoned performers in the Premier League and were both club captains pretty much the same as Carsley. This quality and depth isn't there at the minute

jpjc05

applehunter wrote: »

I heard him interviewed on Newstalk before the start of Premier League season and he named the Ireland job as the "ultimate"

His parents are Irish. His father is a Sligo Rovers fan.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0520/321709-brian-mcdermott-reveals-republic-ambition/

Might be a bit soon for McDermott, though he's obviously very passionate about managing us one day.

SantryRed

jpjc05 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0520/321709-brian-mcdermott-reveals-republic-ambition/

Might be a bit soon for McDermott, though he's obviously very passionate about managing us one day.

Sure let him do both jobs at once. He'd still be doing more than Trappatoni.

aramush

You can say all you want, but our group for qualifying for the Euro's was one of the easiest we ever had. And to top it off, we got the easiest draw by a mile in the playoff's.

Even the campaign before, we had a group including declining Italian and Bulgarian teams and a French team in turmoil in the playoff's which came to fruition during that World Cup. Italy didn't qualify from their group.

Sure, he got us organised, but anything was better than Stan. I'm confident any manager with a half decent management brain would have got us to the Euros.

With the group we got in the Euro finals and in this World Cup qualifiers, we are being exposed for what we truly are, average.

SantryRed

aramush wrote: »

You can say all you want, but our group for qualifying for the Euro's was one of the easiest we ever had. And to top it off, we got the easiest draw by a mile in the playoff's.

Even the campaign before, we had a group including declining Italian and Bulgarian teams and a French team in turmoil in the playoff's which came to fruition during that World Cup. Italy didn't qualify from their group.

Sure, he got us organised, but anything was better than Stan. I'm confident any manager with a half decent management brain would have got us to the Euros.

With the group we got in the Euro finals and in this World Cup qualifiers, we are being exposed for what we truly are, average.

He hasn't got us organised, never has.

Chancer3001

what? we're probably one of the better organised teams out there.

Oat23

applehunter wrote: »

I heard him interviewed on Newstalk before the start of Premier League season and he named the Ireland job as the "ultimate"

His parents are Irish. His father is a Sligo Rovers fan.

Ireland? He can come manage us after Baraclough leaves to take over from Fergie.

Chancer3001

people clamouring for the inclusion of Hoolahan is the exact same as people calling for Andy Reid to start every game some years back.

Trap is a good judge of players usually.

Got it right there. And with steven "gone downhill" Ireland. and keeping faith with Andrews. And giving St LEdger the nod when his club form didnt really make him deserve it.

noodler

Chancer3001 wrote: »

people clamouring for the inclusion of Hoolahan is the exact same as people calling for Andy Reid to start every game some years back.

Trap is a good judge of players usually.

Andy Reid was playing very well when Trap was ignoring him.

The fact he has since fallen somewhat from footballing graces on the club stage does not mean he "got it right".

Reid should have been in the squad on merit at the time (as he was for the first two games Vs Georgia and Montenagro). It was clearly a disciplinary issue.

Fr Tod Umptious

Oatesy23 wrote: »

The national manager of Ireland is massively overpaid. F**k off with the Redknapp and whoever else talk, the guy should not be paid more than €600k a year which brings us in line with the likes of Scotland, Norway and Denmark. That is still 4 times more than Slaven Bilic earns with Croatia.

The Irish NT manager should not be earning more than the managers of Spain, Portugal and France. Those teams and national organisations are light years ahead of us.

Use the left over €1.9m in savings per year to pay off some debt and invest in youth infrastructure, also give the LOI back its prize fund.

The fact that he is so overpaid is a hangover from the sacking of Kerr back in 2005.

Delaney never wanted Kerr in the first place in 2002/2003 so when he had the opurtunity to throw him under the bus after the very poor WC 2006 QF campaign he did, and promised us a 'world class manager'

What we got was Stan and after a year or so a lot of egg on the FAI's face.

So when Stan was sacked they eventually had to go out and got that 'world class manager', and a tycoon to pay half the price, and it was a big price as we are now seeing

So when Trap goes they seriously have to get back to basic s when it comes to paying managers

applehunter

Chancer3001 wrote: »

people clamouring for the inclusion of Hoolahan is the exact same as people calling for Andy Reid to start every game some years back.

Trap is a good judge of players usually.

Wes Hoolahan has 1 cap.

Paul Green has 12 caps.

Pro. F

Chancer3001 wrote: »

what? we're probably one of the better organised teams out there.

No we are not. Anybody with the slightest clue about how a team are supposed to position themselves defensively can see that we are not well organised and never have been under Trap.

The back four always stay extremely deep. The midfield sometimes pushes up, sometimes drops off, as if they have no idea where their teammates are behind them. And they leave huge gaps between themselves across the pitch. The front two often chase around the opposition back four instead of linking up with the midfield. It's an absolute mess and always has been.

KELTICKNIGHTT

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

People here have no problem that we lost, it was the manner of the defeat, that with the shocking performances and results in our last 4 previous game. If we lose a game all well and good, but when we get hammered, look unorganised and without passion.

That's why people are unhappy. Also with the managers unwillingness to bring in different players or try different players, when what his normally done has stopped being effective

but we still need a leader on the field as well as off the field and we need players to account for there performance , time to vet better players , which trap is guilty of ,

KELTICKNIGHTT

professore wrote: »

So you're one of these people who support someone for past glories, regardless of how poor they are now?

Trap has been incredibly lucky to qualify for the Euros, Estonia in the playoff FFS. His luck has run out now though, awful display in the Euros, but stuck with the same formation and players. Kazakhstan played us off the field, and only by bringing on Long, a player who should have started, did we get out of jail.

His policy of selecting second string older players ahead of younger premiership players, and playing people out of position speaks for itself. He has to go. My dad has a theory that he actually wants to be sacked, and I think he might be right. Many of his selections have been downright bizarre.

Anyway on topic, I'd have Brian Kerr back.

brian kerr, your kidding

grenache

Dotsey wrote: »

Whelan, Andrews and St Ledger were in our first XI on merit for a number of years and proved themselves highly reliable and done nothing to lose their jersey.

Alex Pearce has only recently declared for Ireland, Hoolahan and Pilkington ain't good enough and have struggled so far this season for Norwich. Joey O'Brien and Steven Reid are stop-start due to injury problems hence why Reid retired two years ago. Gibson has an excellent shot but little else in truth.

Duff, Dunne, Keane, Given were all top class playing for good clubs.. none of our up and coming players are in this situation. Look at our teams from 20 or so years ago and you see players throughout the squad with experience of winning and competing for major trophies.


Kinsella and Holland were both seasoned performers in the Premier League and were both club captains pretty much the same as Carsley. This quality and depth isn't there at the minute

Jesus wept.

You think a man who does nothing but give the ball away is in the team "on merit".

Hoolahan and Pilkington not good enough? We've never seen them in the team FFS!

What a ridiculous statement.

KELTICKNIGHTT

trap will be there unless FAI have the funds to pay him off, no one see that happening unless someone with the funds steps up to the plate

Mr.Nice Guy

I see some comments to the effect that the team have never been organised under Trap and that we have always been defensively poor under him.

I wish to reject this claim as utterly false.

Prior to the game against Croatia at the Euros we had a run where we only conceded 3 goals in 14 games and kept 11 clean sheets. Of course the revisionists want to make out we have always had problems at the back which is not the case

In fact, when Ireland did concede it was never by more than one goal. This is the run in its totality:

24 May 2011 Republic of Ireland 5 – 0 Northern Ireland
29 May 2011 Republic of Ireland 1 – 0 Scotland
4 June 2011 Macedonia 0 – 2 Republic of Ireland
7 June 2011 Italy 0 – 2 Republic of Ireland (Liège, Belgium)
10 August 2011 Republic of Ireland 0 – 0 Croatia
2 September 2011 Republic of Ireland 0 – 0 Slovakia
6 September 2011 Russia 0 – 0 Republic of Ireland
7 October 2011 Andorra 0 – 2 Republic of Ireland
11 October 2011 Republic of Ireland 2 – 1 Armenia
11 November 2011 Estonia 0 – 4 Republic of Ireland
15 November 2011 Republic of Ireland 1 – 1 Estonia
29 February 2012 Republic of Ireland 1 – 1 Czech Republic
26 May 2012 Republic of Ireland 1 – 0 Bosnia and Herzegovina
4 June 2012 Hungary 0 – 0 Republic of Ireland

It is worth repeating once more that this glowing defensive record was brought to an end against four of the top ten ranked sides in the world: Croatia, Spain, Italy and Germany. It should further be noted that when the players were not guilty of the defensive errors exploited at the Euros, they managed clean sheets against two of these teams in the run above, those being Croatia and Italy.

If some people choose to reject this record on the grounds that it worked then but not now, I would point to the fact that we played Serbia in a friendly in August - without Richard Dunne by far our best defender - and managed a clean sheet. Dunne was also badly missed in the hammering to Germany (as was his normal partner St. Ledger, and Whelan who would have almost certainly featured if fit).

If people choose to reject this record on the grounds Trap has merely been 'lucky', I would point to the famous phrase: 'Success is a matter of luck. Ask any failure.'

kitakyushu

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I see some comments to the effect that the team have never been organised under Trap and that we have always been defensively poor under him.

I wish to reject this claim as utterly false.

Those results prove nothing except that if you put 6 guys around Pavel Nobody in the box he'll probably **** his pants and fluff his shot or if you give Joe Bloggski room to shoot from 20 yards he'll probably miss. However if you try the same on David Silva or Tony Kroos they'll kill you every time. It's defensive gambling of the worst kind.

If you want to see stats that actually mean something check Ireland's results from about 1987 to about 1990. Back then they were keeping similarly keeping clean sheet after clean sheet. Difference was when it came time to step up and play the big boys they actually kept doing it rather than suddenly getting found out and letting in 15 goals in four tough games.

All that series of clean sheets for Trap does is mask over the cracks. A team pulls of 15-30 shots on you in a game (as I recall was a fair reflection of most of those 2011 games?) and we laugh it off because we get a clean sheet. It makes a lie of what actually happened and just delays the inevitable hidings that eventually came.

Mr.Nice Guy

kitakyushu wrote: »

Those results prove nothing except that if you put 6 guys around Pavel Nobody in the box he'll probably **** his pants and fluff his shot or if you give Joe Bloggski room to shoot from 20 yards he'll probably miss. However if you try the same on David Silva or Tony Kroos they'll kill you every time. It's defensive gambling of the worst kind.

If you want to see stats that actually mean something check Ireland's results from about 1987 to about 1990. Back then they were keeping similarly keeping clean sheet after clean sheet. Difference was when it came time to step up and play the big boys they actually kept doing it rather than suddenly getting found out and letting in 15 goals in four tough games.

All that series of clean sheets for Trap does is mask over the cracks. A team pulls of 15-30 shots on you in a game (as I recall was a fair reflection of most of those 2011 games?) and we laugh it off because we get a clean sheet. It makes a lie of what actually happened and just delays the inevitable hidings that eventually came.

So you're saying the system doesn't work against Spain or Germany - two of the greatest sides in the last twenty years. Fair enough as we won't be playing them most of the time. We'll be playing the - what do you call them - Pavel Nobody sides. These sides you will find make up most of our immediate competition ranking-wise. There's no defensive gambling involved. The results I highlighted prove it has worked, except for top sides that have the artistry to exploit it. As we have no players of that ilk - unless one thinks Hoolahan is the next Reus - best to turn to a system that can thwart sides who have these players.

Your comment about sides from 87-90 is very daft by the way. That was perhaps the golden generation of Irish players. If we had players like Brady, Whelan and McGrath we would give a better account of ourselves against the likes of Spain and Germany (though we'd still lose I reckon as those sides are exceptional).

I think people like yourself are being unrealistic in what you expect from this country in the football world.

Rekop dog

kitakyushu wrote: »

Those results prove nothing except that if you put 6 guys around Pavel Nobody in the box he'll probably **** his pants and fluff his shot or if you give Joe Bloggski room to shoot from 20 yards he'll probably miss. However if you try the same on David Silva or Tony Kroos they'll kill you every time. It's defensive gambling of the worst kind.

If you want to see stats that actually mean something check Ireland's results from about 1987 to about 1990. Back then they were keeping similarly keeping clean sheet after clean sheet. Difference was when it came time to step up and play the big boys they actually kept doing it rather than suddenly getting found out and letting in 15 goals in four tough games.

All that series of clean sheets for Trap does is mask over the cracks. A team pulls of 15-30 shots on you in a game (as I recall was a fair reflection of most of those 2011 games?) and we laugh it off because we get a clean sheet. It makes a lie of what actually happened and just delays the inevitable hidings that eventually came.

I think you'll find the difference was we had McGrath and O Leary and a pretty good goal keeper, genuinely think people are a little dim making these comparisons like the strength is in any way similar.

briany

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

brian kerr, your kidding

It would be truly depressing if Brian Kerr's name was brought to the table in any seriousness, not that I think he'd take it anyway if he's got any pride. Even if he was offered it and he did take it, you wouldn't be getting a man much different than the one jettisoned in 2005. He'd maybe know how to get 11 men behind the ball a bit better and have great contacts for a custom made chair or fresh fish but that's about it. He'd do far more good if he were actually given a position in the FAI to oversee and administrate the grassroots side of the game.

kitakyushu

Rekop dog wrote: »

I think you'll find the difference was we had McGrath and O Leary and a pretty good goal keeper, genuinely think people are a little dim making these comparisons like the strength is in any way similar.

That's not the point. The point is that a genuinely good defense will prove themselves across the spectrum of opposition, not just handle minnows because of playing a certain way but then get destroyed by quality by virtue of playing that same way. I think you sound a little dim for not seeing the difference.

Besides, the fact you mentioned McGrath and O'Leary in response to my 87-90 point shows you don't even know what you're talking about anyway. I think you'll find O'Leary was absent and/or a squad player for that period and McGrath was playing in midfield.

Xavi6

Harry Redknapp? Roy Keane?

I take back everything I've said, Trap IN.

SantryRed

briany wrote: »

It would be truly depressing if Brian Kerr's name was brought to the table in any seriousness, not that I think he'd take it anyway if he's got any pride. Even if he was offered it and he did take it, you wouldn't be getting a man much different than the one jettisoned in 2005. He'd maybe know how to get 11 men behind the ball a bit better and have great contacts for a custom made chair or fresh fish but that's about it. He'd do far more good if he were actually given a position in the FAI to oversee and administrate the grassroots side of the game.

I'm sorry but this is bollocks. Trappatoni does the exact same thing and gets 11 men behind the ball?

kitakyushu

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

So you're saying the system doesn't work against Spain or Germany - two of the greatest sides in the last twenty years. Fair enough as we won't be playing them most of the time. We'll be playing the - what do you call them - Pavel Nobody sides. These sides you will find make up most of our immediate competition ranking-wise. There's no defensive gambling involved. The results I highlighted prove it has worked, except for top sides that have the artistry to exploit it. As we have no players of that ilk - unless one thinks Hoolahan is the next Reus - best to turn to a system that can thwart sides who have these players.

So you're ok with scraping 1-0s and 0-0s against teams we should be doing so against anyway and getting destroyed (not just losing, destroyed) anytime we meet a big team? That's basically the limit of your ambition or belief in what we can do atm? Fair enough then. I think you're wrong tho.

Your comment about sides from 87-90 is very daft by the way. That was perhaps the golden generation of Irish players. If we had players like Brady, Whelan and McGrath we would give a better account of ourselves against the likes of Spain and Germany (though we'd still lose I reckon as those sides are exceptional).

Like that other guy you're missing the point. My point is no one should be impressed by you rattling off a list of 2011 clean sheets in friendlies and vs weak opposition when the team can't even come close to replicating it against the top teams.

I think people like yourself are being unrealistic in what you expect from this country in the football world.

You don't even know what I expect. I've been writing since June that I didn't even expect us to get second place in this group. I've also written that I had little doubt we'd lose on Friday. My expectations are low enough. I draw the line however at letting in 6 goals at home to anyone.

By comparison I think people like you are being unrealistic to think it's ok to turn in a performance like v Kazakhstan or to lose 6-1 at home, just because the manager got us to a previous finals in the most unimpressive of manners. I genuinely wonder how bad it has to get and how more games we have to lose before even you change your tune.

Carcharodon

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I see some comments to the effect that the team have never been organised under Trap and that we have always been defensively poor under him.

I wish to reject this claim as utterly false.

Prior to the game against Croatia at the Euros we had a run where we only conceded 3 goals in 14 games and kept 11 clean sheets. Of course the revisionists want to make out we have always had problems at the back which is not the case

In fact, when Ireland did concede it was never by more than one goal. This is the run in its totality:



It is worth repeating once more that this glowing defensive record was brought to an end against four of the top ten ranked sides in the world: Croatia, Spain, Italy and Germany. It should further be noted that when the players were not guilty of the defensive errors exploited at the Euros, they managed clean sheets against two of these teams in the run above, those being Croatia and Italy.

If some people choose to reject this record on the grounds that it worked then but not now, I would point to the fact that we played Serbia in a friendly in August - without Richard Dunne by far our best defender - and managed a clean sheet. Dunne was also badly missed in the hammering to Germany (as was his normal partner St. Ledger, and Whelan who would have almost certainly featured if fit).

If people choose to reject this record on the grounds Trap has merely been 'lucky', I would point to the famous phrase: 'Success is a matter of luck. Ask any failure.'

So what is your solution ? Just accept it for what it is ? Do you not feel a new manager might stop the rot at least because it is glaringly obvious to anyone with half a football brain that Trap has pretty much lost the faith of the team and fans.

I wasn't too happy spending a fortune to travel half way around the world to watch the muck we produced at the Euros and it is only getting worse.

Apanachi

I'd love to see Martin O'Neill getting/taking the job

SteelyDanJalapeno

To those going on about Andy Reid, he's a quality footballer,

this from last week :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78kjjaCoEOI

kevthegaff

a team of Westwood
Coleman----O Shea----Clark

---

Wilson-
McGeady----Macarthy--Meyler----McClean-

---

Gibson

---

-- Long--

Subs Walters, Doyle, Kelly, Ledger, Fahey

thats a good team and would do pretty well with any half decent manager, i think people are underrating our players a little

GLaDOS

Regarding the defensive run, a lot of those games were friendlies. Thought it was a bit much at the time going on about such a great run in non-competitive games.

Better view would be to look at our qualifying group and playoff, where we kept 6/12 clean sheets and conceded 8 goals. Still pretty decent, but nothing amazing. Obviously we've shown since that against better opposition we're pretty shaky in defence.

Handsome Bob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

John Aldgridge might be a good shout. He would be cheap, was an ok manager at Tranmere and would get them playing with passion.

Probably all we could afford after paying off Trap and Tardelli.

With Trigger McAteer as his assistant coach.

carlop

Nobody suggesting Aldridge is actually being serious, are they?

He'd be just behind a Dunphy/Delaney/Keane trident for me.

Fr Tod Umptious

gosplan wrote: »

Because of his record in qualifying campaigns. He's now in his third qualifying campaign and that's his second match lost in the qualifying group stage.

Obviously whether or not there's any point in qualifying is up for debate but if you go by his record then one of two things will happen.

1: We'll finish third having lost to Sweden or if they mess up we'll get to a play off and lose that when drawn against someone better than us.

2: We'll get an easy draw in the play off, arrive at the world cup, narrowly beat the Saudi Arabia type team in our group and get shown up against the Mexico and Spain ones.



I agree with your points but it's important to note that our performances under Trap have always been atrocious. Nonetheless we've always manged to get three points where we should be getting three points, and this has moved Ireland forwards in the ranking, something his predecessors couldn't manage since 2002.

If it's this vrs the average Irish managerial performance over the last two decades, then I take this. Secure ranking, give Trap a chance - all his records show he'll have us in the mix towards the end, and then change at a natural time in the WC/Euros cycle.


Also, I think pointing to the last five games doesn't give a fair reflection. Southampton lost the first four game this season by a cumulative score of 14-4 or something. do we take into account that they played Arsenal, City and Utd or do we just sack the manager?

All that said, I think it's clear we'll never do well against a top level team but Trap still has a chance in this group depending on how well Sweden do.

But the way we have played so far in this group and in the three games in Poland what makes you think that we can do anything v Sweden or Austria.?

It's all well and good to talk about the guys record but the here and now is that we have been hammered at home by Germany, and got away with day light robbery against 147th ranked Kazakhstan, I'll say that again 'got away with day light robbery against 147th ranked Kazakhstan'

There is nothing happing in this set-up that gives me any confidence they can beat decent teams like Sweden and Austria, and to be fair I would not be one bit suprised if we failed to win tomorrow.

So now is the time to make the change and get someone new in, trying new players, formations etc.

I would not mind seeing McCarthy back, failing that I'd give Curblishey a go.

Fr Tod Umptious

carlop wrote: »

Nobody suggesting Aldridge is actually being serious, are they?

He'd be just behind a Dunphy/Delaney/Keane trident for me.

Exactly, this theory that the likes of Aldridge can inspire passion in the team because they played during the Charlton years is just BS, it's going to take more that a pep talk to sort this out.

Laois_Man

After tomorrow, we haven't got a competitive game again until late March. The FAI would be likely to do their usual trick on saving wages and leave the position vacant for 3 or 4 months if Trapp goes next week. So it's about who will be available come next February or so!

Martin O'Neill - Sunderland are having a disappointing season so far. If it gets worse, he could become available and would probably be the best option for us if he did!

Curbishley, Coyle, Mick McCarthy, McDermott (if he was sacked by Reading) and Strachan - possibly.

Alex McLeish - a former Rangers manager is a definite no go. Even if he was a good manager! Same goes for Souness

Kerr, Kinnear, Fenlon, Aldridge, Dalglish, O'Leary or Tardelli...All no...definately no!

Hughton - undecided. I'm in 2 minds about him!

Somebody said Joe Royle - I like that idea! (WTF does it matter how long ago he managed). But there's no chance he'd be considered!

Harry Redknapp! NO! He'll shaft us as soon as a half interesting Premier League job gets put under his nose! He wouldn't be a good international manager anyway!

We need someone who knows and respects obscure players in SPL, EPL and English championship. So the likes of Co Adriaanse. Rafa Benitez, Dick Advocate or Bert Van Marjwick are out!

I take it nobody would actually suggest Pep Guardiola in a serious way! Anyone suggesting David Moyes is stupid! There probably isn't any manager who would leave a Premier League club to manager Ireland. Possibly not even a top half Championship club even!

Roy Keane - I thought apparent player revolt was the problem we are trying to solve here rather than the problem we're trying to create or exacerbate!