Will Liverpool FC ever be back??

pmy.murphy

Upon general analysis of Fenway Sports Groups first two years in charge of Liverpool and the current state of the club. Also I might throw in the recent failure of Liverpool to add to the squad in the transfer window mainly due to FSG refusing to back Rodgers, current league position and now the revelations of Jen Chang threatening a fan. Liverpool really are a club in crisis. There is no doubt Brendan Rodgers is the right man in charge but he cant do it on his own and needs to be bcked and the questions I now want to ask is..........Are Fenway Sports Group the people to bring the glory days back to anfield??? Will Rodgers be backed in January?? Realistically who might Liverpool sign??? We all want big names but that is no longer a possibility

Blatter

Other clubs have been in very bad/worse states in recent years and have come back, see Borussia Dortmund and Juventus as two of the more recent ones, so no, it's not impossible for them to come back somewhat in the coming years. Even Barca were getting knocked out of the Europa league by Celtic and finishing mid table not too long ago.

More difficult to achieve in the Premier League though as the competition is much more fierce in comparison to the other leagues. Three superpowers in United, Chelsea and City plus Arsenal aren't a million miles behind, and then Spurs who have been growing steadily for a number of years now.

pmy.murphy

Blatter wrote: »

Other clubs have been in very bad/worse states in recent years and have come back, see Borussia Dortmund and Juventus as two of the more recent ones, so no, it's not impossible for them to come back somewhat in the coming years. Even Barca were getting knocked out of the Europa league by Celtic and finishing mid table not too long ago.

More difficult to achieve in the Premier League though as the competition is much more fierce in comparison to the other leagues. Three superpowers in United, Chelsea and City plus Arsenal aren't a million miles behind, and then Spurs who have been growing steadily for a number of years now.

Its hard to know but I feel the longer Liverpool stay out of the top 4, the harder it will be for them to get back there especially with Newcastle and Everton getting stronger and to attract the best players as even now it is seen as a step down to sign for Liverpool(ie. Demba Ba who lets face it is a deal thats not going to happen as he wont swap newcastle for a midtable team.

Leiva

I like " Are Liverpool and FSG done." better

NukaCola

Oh bother

IvySlayer

Liverpool need to stick with a manager first of all.

Washington Irving

Leiva wrote: »

I like " Are Liverpool and FSG done." better

Yeah, but that's a bannable offence now so we need alternative titles

ShamoBuc

SaulGoode9 wrote: »

Yeah, but that's a bannable offence now so we need alternative titles

Or we could not start starting stupid threads like this...just a thought.

LuckyLloyd

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Upon general analysis of Fenway Sports Groups first two years in charge of Liverpool and the current state of the club. Also I might throw in the recent failure of Liverpool to add to the squad in the transfer window mainly due to FSG refusing to back Rodgers, current league position and now the revelations of Jen Chang threatening a fan. Liverpool really are a club in crisis. There is no doubt Brendan Rodgers is the right man in charge but he cant do it on his own and needs to be bcked and the questions I now want to ask is..........Are Fenway Sports Group the people to bring the glory days back to anfield??? Will Rodgers be backed in January?? Realistically who might Liverpool sign??? We all want big names but that is no longer a possibility

There are buckets and buckets of doubts. He has done nothing of such consequence in the game. He is inexperienced and facing a challenge far tougher than anything he has been tasked with before.

Paully D

Without question.

First they need to hire a manager with a proven track record and not a bluffer. Then they need to completely rebuild the squad, but a club like Liverpool will always attract good enough managers and players, it's just appointing/signing the right ones which has been a problem for them recently.

Blatter

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Its hard to know but I feel the longer Liverpool stay out of the top 4, the harder it will be for them to get back there especially with Newcastle and Everton getting stronger and to attract the best players as even now it is seen as a step down to sign for Liverpool(ie. Demba Ba who lets face it is a deal thats not going to happen as he wont swap newcastle for a midtable team.

Everton are punching above their weight now but that won't last forever. Their financial difficulties are just too severe too not drag them down a level or two sometime (unless a change of owner which sees the debt wiped out)

Newcastle could go onto better things. They're on a good run at the moment, but I'd like to see them gradually improve for a while longer before I consider them future Champions League material.

Liverpool are currently in a poor position on the field compared to the above two, but off the field is a different story and that is hugely important when predicting future success. Their revenue (and future prospects) far outweighs that of Newcastle and Everton, and the odds are that it will tell in the coming years, imo of course.

Washington Irving

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Or we could not start starting stupid threads like this...just a thought.

That's definitely the preferred option but, unfortunately, I can't that happening

quarryman

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Or we could not start starting stupid threads like this...just a thought.

Ah snide remarks from Liverpool fans to disrupt the thread.

It's a valid topic, regardless of whether you agree with it.

There's no doubt the club are on a downward spiral and have been for a while. Poor management on the pitch and off. Dreadful PR (the Suarez/Evra incident one example). Awful player transfers. A declining support base. Players entering the end of their careers without replacements. Overly optimistic expectations of fans based on success 30 years ago. Other clubs have caught up and passed out Liverpool leaving them struggling to qualify for the Europa league. Regardless of what Liverpool fans want to believe they have been heading for mid-table mediocrity for a while and any turnaround seems a long way away.

As a Leeds supporter I should know about it. Every season I wonder will we ever get back into the premiership. The sensible part of me knows not to hold my breath.

Red Crow

Back to what exactly? late 70's/early 80's? Finishing 2nd in 2009?

Super-Rush

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Will Liverpool FC ever be back??
.....

Not for a long long time.

....Are Fenway Sports Group the people to bring the glory days back to anfield???

No.

Will Rodgers be backed in January??

No.

Realistically who might Liverpool sign???

Gary fcuking Hooper.

I'd expect a top 5 finish this year followed by a title challenge next year and more than likely taking it by the slimist of margins.

Next year is our year.

klose

Eli Manning wrote: »

Back to what exactly? late 70's/early 80's? Finishing 2nd in 2009?

Probably the rafa days I'm guessing he's referring too, barring his last season :pac:


We need stability I.e a manager for a few seasons, lets start now with Rodgers. I always laugh at the people saying well be fighting to stay up and will be in a relegation battle :rolleyes:

Washington Irving

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd expect a top 5 finish this year followed by a title challenge next year and more than likely taking it by the slimist of margins.

Next year is our year.

cloptrop knows what he's talking about. Next year is our year.

Phoenix Park

quarryman wrote: »

Ah snide remarks from Liverpool fans to disrupt the thread.

It's a valid topic, regardless of whether you agree with it.

There's no doubt the club are on a downward spiral and have been for a while. Poor management on the pitch and off. Dreadful PR (the Suarez/Evra incident one example). Awful player transfers. A declining support base. Players entering the end of their careers without replacements. Overly optimistic expectations of fans based on success 30 years ago. Other clubs have caught up and passed out Liverpool leaving them struggling to qualify for the Europa league. Regardless of what Liverpool fans want to believe they have been heading for mid-table mediocrity for a while and any turnaround seems a long way away.

As a Leeds supporter I should know about it. Every season I wonder will we ever get back into the premiership. The sensible part of me knows not to hold my breath.

Declining support base- wha?? There's still loads of us i assure you.

Players entering the end of their contracts without replacments? Like who, Carra?? As a club we have done quite well compared to many as regards losing players on a Bosman if thats what you mean. Agger and Suarez recently tied down to new deals with more to follow. The big names we have sold in recent years (Alonso, Torres, Mascherano) all wanted out in the end, and we got good-to-excellent money for all.

Overly optimictic expectations? 95% of us don't expect top 4 this season.

Prick!

Leiva wrote: »

I like " Are Liverpool and FSG done." better

Liverpool and FSG were done long ago, this is asking if they're gonna be back.

quarryman

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Declining support base- wha?? There's still loads of us i assure you.

Players entering the end of their contracts without replacments? Like who, Carra?? As a club we have done quite well compared to many as regards losing players on a Bosman if thats what you mean. Agger and Suarez recently tied down to new deals with more to follow. The big names we have sold in recent years (Alonso, Torres, Mascherano) all wanted out in the end, and we got good-to-excellent money for all.

Overly optimictic expectations? 95% of us don't expect top 4 this season.

I'm sure there are plenty of Liverpool fans but man city, united and Chelsea are gaining foreign support due to their success on the pitch.



Gerrard, reina?

Bounty Hunter

Prick! wrote: »

Liverpool and FSG were done long ago, this is asking if they're gonna be back.

surely if something is done, it's finished and therefore cannot come back. The thread is asking if Liverpool will ever be back (to their former status) though and this is very much so possible. The concern that this thread could degenerate into a similar one to what we have seen before is a genuine one although constant references to it on thread wont exactly help the matter and be sure the mods will have a close eye on such a thread and if it does slip wont hesitate in acting especially considering the recent ruling on certain threads (focus id guess is on the thread title but it's more than that).

As pointed out though this question could similarly be leveled at a club like leads for example though and it could def be considerd a concern for fans of a club like Liverpool as these days it is even harder to keep pace with the elite in world football / Premiership football due to financial concerns among other reasons.

If I was a betting man i'd say Liverpool will be back (what exactly that means in full could be another big long discussion), but there is no quick fix in these situations and expectations, not just of the clubs own fans, are always higher than they should be given the very same things that mean people like me see a return to past glories for such a club, fan base, infrastructure, history etc

Prick!

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

surely if something is done, it's finished and therefore cannot come back. The thread is asking if Liverpool will ever be back (to their former status) though and this is very much so possible. The concern that this thread could degenerate into a similar one to what we have seen before is a genuine one although constant references to it on thread wont exactly help the matter and be sure the mods will have a close eye on such a thread and if it does slip wont hesitate in acting especially considering the recent ruling on certain threads (focus id guess is on the thread title but it's more than that).

As pointed out though this question could similarly be leveled at a club like leads for example though and it could def be considerd a concern for fans of a club like Liverpool as these days it is even harder to keep pace with the elite in world football / Premiership football due to financial concerns among other reasons.

If I was a betting man i'd say Liverpool will be back (what exactly that means in full could be another big long discussion), but there is no quick fix in these situations and expectations, not just of the clubs own fans, are always higher than they should be given the very same things that mean people like me see a return to past glories for such a club, fan base, infrastructure, history etc

Good post, but it was Leiva who tried to make this seem like a "Are fsg etc done?" thread. I'm saying to him, that Liverpool are done and that the two topics are unrelated. (coming back and are they done).

I'm sure they'll be back some day. Someone tycoon will surely take over in the future.

Also when I say they are done it means they have dropped from the level they were once seen at.

Melion

Did United fans think they'd ever be back when they went 26 years without a title? Arsenal fans during the early 90's? Chelsea fans...ever? There are so many things that could happen in football, it would take a monumental effort from someone to get Liverpool to win the league title. Rafa had us there and if he was backed in the summer of 2009 then we would have been champions in May 2010, no doubt in my mind.

At the moment we are as far away from a title as I can ever remember and that's down to how the club was run from 07-10, managers like Hodgson and Dalglish signing absolute rubbish on ridiculous wages who can't be sold which is directly affecting the money available to BR. He is bringing through a serious group of kids and if Sterling, Suso, Shelvey, Robinson et al continue to improve alongside Suarez, Lucas, Agger, Allen, Johnson then I really feel that he is the man who will deliver that title. It won't happen this season, or next season but IMO it will happen.

We are playing the best football any Liverpool team has since the second half of 08/09 when we were blowing away teams like Real Madrid and United. I think if we had performed a bit better than we did in the summer and got a clinical goal poacher then we would have a lot more points on the board. I expect that to be rectified in January.

Cantona's Collars

They've taken to threatening fans now.This is worth a read even if it's a bit long.

http://duncanjenkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/such-little-thing-makes-such-big.html

Alienating fans isn't the right way to go about things.Expect a few articles about this in the press.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

They've taken to threatening fans now.This is worth a read even if it's a bit long.

http://duncanjenkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/such-little-thing-makes-such-big.html

welcome to yesterday

Cantona's Collars

rarnes1 wrote: »

welcome to yesterday

So it's not Friday 13th? phew!!

zerks

zerks wrote: »

So it's not Friday 13th? phew!!

Ireland were beaten by Germany 1-6.

Cantona's Collars

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ireland were beaten by Germany 1-6.

Knew I shouldn't have went to the pub yesterday evening:p

Back on topic,if FSG don't provide funding for transfers Liverpool will languish in midtable for a long time as the clubs ahead of them pull away.Pretty poor form the way they treated Rogers in the Summer window by informing him at the last minute that the transfer kitty included money for wages.After the squandering of roughly £100 million on mediocrity by Dalglish the purse strings are very tight at the club now.Quality costs money plus top players don't want to be at a midtable club.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

Knew I shouldn't have went to the pub yesterday evening:p

Back on topic,if FSG don't provide funding for transfers Liverpool will languish in midtable for a long time as the clubs ahead of them pull away.Pretty poor form the way they treated Rogers in the Summer window by informing him at the last minute that the transfer kitty included money for wages.After the squandering of roughly £100 million on mediocrity by Dalglish the purse strings are very tight at the club now.Quality costs money plus top players don't want to be at a midtable club.

Stick up a few links for that.

Dempsey

Super-Rush wrote: »

Gary fcuking Hooper.

Dont worry ye cant afford him

Cantona's Collars

rarnes1 wrote: »

Stick up a few links for that.

It was discussed at length in the Liverpool forum at the time,I'm pretty sure you even commented on it.Fans were very unhappy about the situation especially when it only arose after Carroll went on loan.

Here's one & there's more,I'll let you do the searching. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2196945/Brendan-Rodgers-angry-Liverpools-failure-sign-transfer-targets.html

zerks

zerks wrote: »

It was discussed at length in the Liverpool forum at the time,I'm pretty sure you even commented on it.Fans were very unhappy about the situation especially when it only arose after Carroll went on loan.

Here's one & there's more,I'll let you do the searching. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2196945/Brendan-Rodgers-angry-Liverpools-failure-sign-transfer-targets.html

Links without quotes are pretty worthless.

Links without quotes from the Daily Fail are even worse.

It's all hear say what happened really. I'm not saying that Rodgers wasn't given promises that were not kept, but there's certainly more to it than tabloid rags and journo's reported.

G.K.

I remember that idea (Of Rodgers not being told it included wages) being discussed off the back of a Ben Smith tweet, I think.

G.K.

G.K. wrote: »

I remember that idea (Of Rodgers not being told it included wages) being discussed off the back of a Ben Smith tweet, I think.

Well the same Ben Smith said that it was Rodgers and not the owners that made the offer of Henderson and £3m for Dempsey iirc.

I don't pay heed to any of those journos on twitter though tbh.

The summer debacle was the fault of owners and manager most likely.

monkey9

Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world. Of course they'll be back (by being back i'm assuming that means winning the league title considering they've won everything else since last winning the league title)

amiable

zerks wrote: »

They've taken to threatening fans now.This is worth a read even if it's a bit long.

http://duncanjenkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/such-little-thing-makes-such-big.html

Alienating fans isn't the right way to go about things.Expect a few articles about this in the press.

It's from an anonymous blogger who was lying for months. It must be true

Hulk Hands

I can't see it happening in the short to medium term as long as the couple of sugardaddy owners (City, Chelsea) are still in place. In their current situations, they will always have the funds to outspend Liverpool, leaving it hard for Liverpool to make up the ground. United are a well run machine with high revenue, and Spurs are also on an upward curve. Of course, youth talent could be a help. But bar a couple of excellent talents, the rest look like a continuation of the current mediocre quality at the club. It's hard to see how they will bridge the gap on the top clubs, regardless of how well Rodgers does. Of course, a billionaire buyer and Liverpool suddenly become a very attractive proposition

amiable

amiable wrote: »

It's from an anonymous blogger who was lying for months. It must be true

He posted it like it was some big exclusive too

Duck Soup

Any team can rise to the top - look at Blackburn - but the key thing is simply money. 20 years ago, the manager alone could have made the difference (I'm thinking of Brian Clough in particular) but these days the top Premiership/Bundesliga/Serie A/La Liga clubs can vacuum up the best of talent from around the globe.

Liverpool can come back. They can do it under Brendan Rogers. They can't do it with Fenway. Effectively, there needs to be a pot running into a couple of hundred million to build up the necessary squad and a continuing massive spend on wages. If you don't have that, aim for the FA Cup and the Europa League.

~Rebel~

Ugh, this thread hurts my soul a bit.

In answer to the question in the title, more than likely, yes.
Football goes in cycles. Might take 5 years, might take 10, or more. But an existing worldwide brand is invaluable, and means there's always a decent chance.

Trying to base something like this on recent history is utterly pointless, especially considering the topsy turvy nature of those years. Only a few years ago, 4 points off the league title. Then strife with incredible debt, which has now been resolved so the club is well on it's way towards being both self-sustaining and indeed, profitable. Considering the coming increase of revenue from new television deals, and the boost that FFP could provide (if the powers that be stick to their guns), LFC would actually be looking in pretty good shape in the long term - and thats what matters here - the long term.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ugh, this thread hurts my soul a bit.

In answer to the question in the title, more than likely, yes.
Football goes in cycles. Might take 5 years, might take 10, or more. But an existing worldwide brand is invaluable, and means there's always a decent chance.

Trying to base something like this on recent history is utterly pointless, especially considering the topsy turvy nature of those years. Only a few years ago, 4 points off the league title. Then strife with incredible debt, which has now been resolved so the club is well on it's way towards being both self-sustaining and indeed, profitable. Considering the coming increase of revenue from new television deals, and the boost that FFP could provide (if the powers that be stick to their guns), LFC would actually be looking in pretty good shape in the long term - and thats what matters here - the long term.

This isn't a thread for sensible posts I'm afraid.

Will I Amnt

Ah Liverpool.......remember them.

Point immediately proven!

aramush

Last season, with the money Liverpool spent, they should have pushed on and qualified for the Champions League.. But the truth is, last season has damaged the club even more and set them back further.

Easily known FSG aren't willing to release big money after the return on Downing, Carroll and Henderson. A combined total of £75 million English pounds. I know we got £50 Million for Torres and you can argue where the rest of the funds came from but lads.. £75 Million, in the space of 18 months two of them can't get into the team and the other is on loan.

Rayne Wooney

monkey9 wrote: »

Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world.Of course they'll be back (by being back i'm assuming that means winning the league title considering they've won everything else since last winning the league title)

Were.

You can't seriously say they are still one of the biggest. I think it will take 3+ years for Liverpool to start challenging for the title again, if Rogers is given time and money.

Pride Fighter

Saying this as a non-Liverpool fan.

Liverpool have won 13 major and minor trophies since they last won the league.

It was not long ago they made 2 CL finals in 3 season.

So have they ever really left??

LuckyLloyd

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Saying this as a non-Liverpool fan.

Liverpool have won 13 major and minor trophies since they last won the league.

It was not long ago they made 2 CL finals in 3 season.

So have they ever really left??

2009 to now is the worst spell of that length since the last league title, but we were very competitive from 1999 - 2009. That 7th, 6th, 8th, a trophy, a final, and a European Semi - Final is seen as such a disastrous period (and rightly so) for the club is a testament to its size and significance.

darced

This post has been deleted.

token101

Melion wrote: »

Did United fans think they'd ever be back when they went 26 years without a title? Arsenal fans during the early 90's? Chelsea fans...ever? There are so many things that could happen in football, it would take a monumental effort from someone to get Liverpool to win the league title. Rafa had us there and if he was backed in the summer of 2009 then we would have been champions in May 2010, no doubt in my mind.

If Rafa was backed? He spent 17 million on Johnson and close enough to the same on Aquilani. How much more was necessary? Rafa got plenty of backing, he just spent it badly most of the time.

~Rebel~

token101 wrote: »

If Rafa was backed? He spent 17 million on Johnson and close enough to the same on Aquilani. How much more was necessary? Rafa got plenty of backing, he just spent it badly most of the time.

Wasn't as simple as that. Johnson obviously wasn't worth 17 million, but Pompy owed us close to 11 million for Crouch - money which obviously wasn't going to ever get paid (nobody Pompy owed ever got paid after they went into administration), so a deal was struck - pool sign him for a real figure of 6 million and Pompy strike off the debt they owed us. They were never going to be able to pay anyway, but anything that 'on paper' reduced their debt was a good thing.

On our side, we had an asset which we could claim as being 17 million - which counts as a positive for the club (as club which at the time was doing everything it could to raise it's 'paper-value).

Somewhat similar deal with Aquilani, in that the debt they owed us for Riise was wiped off against it.

So in essence, no he wasn't backed sufficiently - he was strictly limited in the clubs he was allowed to buy from. That was a time when actual backing, on the targets he wanted, could have saved the club fortunes in the long run.

I would rather Rafa's judgement in the transfer market over anyone else we've had over the last 15 - 20 years. Especially when you factor in some of the players he really wanted at decent prices, but wasn't allowed to buy, who have since multiplied hugely in value (Villa before Valencia, Aguero before Atleti, Dani Alves long before Barca, Falcao before porto) - Maddening.