How do you judge an alcoholic?

Wattle

Mate of mine is an alcoholic. He drinks every single day and is beginning to look like a lush (blotchy red skin, tired eyes). In fact in the last five years I don't think I've seen him without a drink in his hand. Do I judge him? No not really I'd like to help but watching him destroy himself on a daily basis is hard to take. You can talk to an alcoholic till your blue in the mouth but the decision to quit always has to come from the person themselves.

MagicMarker

minidazzler wrote: »

I'll only see someone as an alcoholic if their drinking has a negative effect on their lives or the lives of those they are supposed to care for. If a man is a good father but likes to down a few beers every evening and not act the prick about it but get up for work the next morning, he is NOT, despite what those cnuts in AA will tell you, an alcoholic.

Well no, that's not at all true.

I agree that having a few beers every night doesn't mean you're an alcoholic, but if you can't go a night without having a few beers, regardless of how good a father or employee you are, you ARE an alcoholic.

Chuck Stone

MagicMarker wrote: »

if you can't go a night without having a few beers, regardless of how good a father or employee you are, you ARE an alcoholic.

Says who?

3rdDegree

Stinicker wrote: »

I look down upon them, they are wasters with a drug addiction, Alcohol is a drug, yet people treat it as if it was something different. I hate how everything in Ireland revolves around alcohol especially the social life aspect of it.

I personally don't drink and they whole concept of going out to pay for overpriced drink and making a fool of ones self is pityfull, it really is an ignominy that people do this every weekend often men who feel they must be a borderline alcoholic to just speak to a woman.

So basically alcoholics are wasters in my view and should be treated with contempt and not pity. Everybody has choices in life and being an alcoholic is just the result of bad choice making.

What of the alcoholic doesn't drink anymore?

By the way, your post kind of turned me on. I'm not sure what that makes me, but I doubt it's something good.

MagicMarker

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Says who?

Says the English language. An alcoholic is a person suffering from alcoholism, alcoholism is an addiction/dependency on alcohol. If you can't go through a day without having a beer then you have a dependency on alcohol, ergo you are suffering from alcoholism and are an alcoholic.

tayto lover

An alcoholic can go for weeks and months without a drink but when they succumb they then hit it hard until they go off it again. You do not have to drink every day or week to be an alcoholic.

HeyThereDeliah

Stinicker wrote: »

I look down upon them, they are wasters with a drug addiction, Alcohol is a drug, yet people treat it as if it was something different. I hate how everything in Ireland revolves around alcohol especially the social life aspect of it.

I personally don't drink and they whole concept of going out to pay for overpriced drink and making a fool of ones self is pityfull, it really is an ignominy that people do this every weekend often men who feel they must be a borderline alcoholic to just speak to a woman.

So basically alcoholics are wasters in my view and should be treated with contempt and not pity. Everybody has choices in life and being an alcoholic is just the result of bad choice making.

Don't ever volunteer for the Samaritans.

What about people who are addicted to drugs, food, cigarettes ? Any sympathy for these?
Not all alcoholics are drinking from a paper bag in the park, some you might be amazed to hear work for a living but have a few drinks every night.
Not all alcoholics get pissed daily they might have a few drinks but not necessarily get blind drunk.

There are all sorts of alcoholics some who hide it very well, this could be the woman who goes to mass everyday, goes to bingo friday night but secretly drinks at home.

3rdDegree

MagicMarker wrote: »

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Says who?

Says the English language. An alcoholic is a person suffering from alcoholism, alcoholism is an addiction/dependency on alcohol. If you can't go through a day without having a beer then you have a dependency on alcohol, ergo you are suffering from alcoholism and are an alcoholic.

Correct, except not necessarily a day. I know a guy who goes on a 3 to 4 day bender a few times a year. He drinks very seldom, but he's still an alcho.

It's hard to define it, isn't it? But I think addiction is probably the key.

kraggy

J Mysterio wrote: »

Thinly veiled i'm an alcoholic thread.

It never was, and never will be funny.

Scanlas The 2nd

So you are an alcoholic if you need or are dependent on it.

What of a person needs alcohol to chat up the opposite sex? They clearly depend in it so by the above definition they are alcoholics.

Chuck Stone

MagicMarker wrote: »

If you can't go through a day without having a beer then you have a dependency on alcohol.

Can you point me to a reputable source for this claim?

Cedrus

I disagree with the label 'Alcoholic'. As somebody has already said in this thread it is a pseudo scientific appelation, but, if it helps someone to adopt this name and go to meetings with people who will help them out of a hole, Fair Play to them and all of their supporters.

However, I think that a lot more people have drinking problems than will ever go to AA and say the "my name is ...." There is a fear of going over to the dark side that will prevent many people from ever admitting publicly the fact that they often know themselves for years.

I prefer to think of 'problem drinking' as this is a more step by step progression. If someone in your life has a problem with your drinking you MUST deal with it.

Can't get up for work? Cut down or cut it out.
Partner/Parents/Children/Friends are unhappy with your drinking? Cut down or cut it out.
Can't remember how you got to bed? cut down or cut it out.

Don't worry about the stigma , get your life back on track.

Dozen Wicked Words

Alcoholics, and people who drink alcohol to excess generally, no matter how you judge them, are a burden on the health service.

Few facts here:
http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/


Deaths from complications related to alcohol are particularly nasty.

I was in a rehab in Texas years back. One of the patients was a policeman, who came in with wet brain syndrome. He was wheeled in from the hospital on a stretcher. Days later he was wheeled from his room to take meds and eat with the rest of us. He drooled, he couldnt put a sentence togther. I had never even heard of it till I saw this man.

Story was his partner had been shot dead some time before, and this man turned to the drink. He almost ended up a vegetable.
Glad to say though, by the time I left he was on the mend.

Images of him will stay with me a long time

Nettle

Jake1 wrote: »

I was in a rehab in Texas years back. One of the patients was a policeman, who came in with wet brain syndrome. He was wheeled in from the hospital on a stretcher. Days later he was wheeled from his room to take meds and eat with the rest of us. He drooled, he couldnt put a sentence togther. I had never even heard of it till I saw this man.

Story was his partner had been shot dead some time before, and this man turned to the drink. He almost ended up a vegetable.
Glad to say though, by the time I left he was on the mend.

Images of him will stay with me a long time

I have met somebody with this condition, its more commonly known as weirnick korsafic syndrome, exceptionally sad for the individual and their families! It's also on the increase in Ireland

Nettle

Nettle wrote: »

I have met somebody with this condition, its more commonly known as weirnick korsafic syndrome, exceptionally sad for the individual and their families! It's also on the increase in Ireland

Its horrific to see someone brought to their knees like that isnt it?

I did not know it was on the increase, but Im not surprised .

Nettle

Jake1 wrote: »

Nettle wrote: »

I have met somebody with this condition, its more commonly known as weirnick korsafic syndrome, exceptionally sad for the individual and their families! It's also on the increase in Ireland

Its horrific to see someone brought to their knees like that isnt it?

I did not know it was on the increase, but Im not surprised .

Yep sure is, it's premature dementia, it is cause by malnutrition and excess alcohol, kinda makes you wonder how alcohol can still be so easily available!

token101

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can you point me to a reputable source for this claim?

To be fair, if you can't get through the day it means you're dependant on alcohol really. That's alcoholism surely? It's not the same as having a beer or two every day. It's when you need it you're in trouble. That's my opinion anyway.

Chuck Stone

token101 wrote: »

To be fair, if you can't get through the day it means you're dependant on alcohol really. That's alcoholism surely? It's not the same as having a beer or two every day. It's when you need it you're in trouble. That's my opinion anyway.

A lot of people can't get past an hour awake without a cup of tea or coffee.

Are they tea-aholics coffee-aholics?

whirlpool

maiden wrote: »

Tell that to all the kids I have fostered! Im not sure they would agree

An (of course) entirely understandable (what I assume to be an expression of your) opinion, but biased and therefore unfair.

whirlpool

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A lot of people can't get past an hour awake without a cup of tea or coffee.

Are they tea-aholics coffee-aholics?

Yes :-/ Precisely.

whirlpool

dooferoaks wrote: »

Alcoholics, and people who drink alcohol to excess generally, no matter how you judge them, are a burden on the health service.

Few facts here:
http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/


Deaths from complications related to alcohol are particularly nasty.

Everyone who uses the health service is a burden on the health service. What's your point exactly?

whirlpool

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So you are an alcoholic if you need or are dependent on it.

What of a person needs alcohol to chat up the opposite sex? They clearly depend in it so by the above definition they are alcoholics.

No. There is a difference between being dependent on something to simply get you through the day, and being dependent on something to chat up a girl at the bar.

whirlpool

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can you point me to a reputable source for this claim?

What? It's not a "claim." The first half of the sentence equals the second half of the sentence. Unable to go without something = depending on something.

cometogether

I pity them to be honest, what a waste of your life. I only hope that they can get cured of it, if you abuse alcohol too much then there's no turning back the damage it does to your body.

Chuck Stone

whirlpool wrote: »

Unable to go without something = depending on something.

But they're not unable to. If you remove tea/coffee from a tea/coffee dependent person they're going to get over it.

cometogether

Chuck Stone wrote: »

But they're not unable to. If you remove tea/coffee from a tea/coffee dependent person they're going to get over it.

But by that logic nobody can ever be addicted to anything?

Chuck Stone

cometogether wrote: »

But by that logic nobody can ever be addicted to anything?

Ultimately addiction is a choice. The substance does not make you take it.

JustAThought

Well - unless it's an addictive substance!
Luke meth or something - supposed to be instantly addictive. Scarey.

3rdDegree

Chuck Stone wrote: »

whirlpool wrote: »

[COLOR="Red"]Unable [/COLOR]to go without something = depending on something.

But they're not unable to. If you remove tea/coffee from a tea/coffee dependent person they're going to get over it.

Same with alcohol. If you remove it from a dependent person, they will also get over it. But only after withdrawal. So what exactly is your point?

Stereomaniac

If they get over it, then they should be able to have it reintroduced. I am a recovering alcoholic.

3rdDegree

Chuck Stone wrote: »

cometogether wrote: »

But by that logic nobody can ever be addicted to anything?

Ultimately addiction is a choice. The substance does not make you take it.

TAKING a substance is a choice, you're correct. And I guess in a sense, you could say becoming addicted is a choice since you choose to continue to take the substance until you are addicted. But I do not think that the actual change in your body or chemistry which makes you addicted is a choice. That part is involuntary.

Stereomaniac

Yeah, but I don't think anyone ever sets out to become addicted. I for one, didn't. I just have a very addictive personality, with everything I do. So eventually, you just have to learn what it's alright to be addicted to and what to stay away from.

Allyall

In Good 'ole USA Alcoholics are told it's a Disease.

According to Mitch Hedberg, it's the only Disease you can get yelled at for having.

Stereomaniac

It is a disease. I was in treatment and I learned that. It's the only disease in the world that will convince you you don't have it.

Dozen Wicked Words

whirlpool wrote: »

Everyone who uses the health service is a burden on the health service. What's your point exactly?

Same way as people who can't moderate their eating or who smoke, or any other lifestyle choice which affects health, not making a judgement, just stating a fact. If you can't see the point there, not a lot I can say that will help you. Exactly or not.

3rdDegree

I personally do not believe it is a disease, no more than I believe that smoking or heroin addiction is a disease. I believe that alcoholism is simply an addiction. But others will disagree very strongly with this.

bradknowell

maiden wrote: »

Tell that to all the kids I have fostered! Im not sure they would agree

Good "thanks" post .


Some people are functioning alcoholics and others are not.
My uncle is a functioning alcoholic now because he lost everything over the years. Don't know how the man is still alive

bradknowell

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ultimately addiction is a choice. The substance does not make you take it.

Try inject heroin once so

3rdDegree

bradknowell wrote: »

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ultimately addiction is a choice. The substance does not make you take it.

Try inject heroin once so

But Chuck's point is that you would be "trying it". The heroin would not be "making" you take it. Semantics, I know. Addiction itself is not a choice. Starting to take the drug is.

mickrock

Only the person himself/herself can say whether or not he/she is addicted.

If a man continues to drink against his better judgement, he is addicted.

Addiction is a state of ambivalence, where the person wants to carry on drinking as much as they like, yet also feels they should quit/cut back because of the negative consequences. If there's no conflict in the person's mind, there's no addiction.

Luxie

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

With pity, it's an awful condition, you have to remember that there's often a contributory factor which leads to alcoholism. Think about it, zero self esteem self hatred, hoping to die soon. It takes over, the alcohol consumes everything and it's your only friend. It's easy to scoff at it if you don't fully understand the grip alcohol has on sufferers.

The hoping to die soon is what did for my mother. She got her wish four and a half months ago.

Chuck Stone

bradknowell wrote: »

Try inject heroin once so

I choose not to.

nagirrac

Sparklygirl wrote: »

I think in some cases it is a case of genetics, some people are predisposed to alcoholism. I have a family member who is an alcoholic, I still drink alcohol but I am careful about how much and how often. I think it would be easy to fall into the trap of drinking wine each night as I know lots of people who do this. I think people think it is ok because it is wine as opposed to beer/spirits. I think it is a slippery slope.

It is hard not to judge an alcoholic, I used to get very annoyed at a friend of mine who is. I have to remind myself that it is an addiction and that if circumstances were different it could be me.

Nothing wrong with a glass of wine per night, its binge drinking that does the harm as you correctly point out but theres a difference between one or two drinks a night and having 10 in one night.

Scanlas The 2nd

whirlpool wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So you are an alcoholic if you need or are dependent on it.

What of a person needs alcohol to chat up the opposite sex? They clearly depend in it so by the above definition they are alcoholics.

No. There is a difference between being dependent on something to simply get you through the day, and being dependent on something to chat up a girl at the bar.

Meeting the opposite sex is an important fundamental part of life, if you need drugs to get through it one might call that a dependency.

Extinction

maiden wrote: »

It wasnt intended to be a smart comment, everyone is entitled to their pain, but if a child is abused or neglected because of it then its a whole different ball game imo

I live with these kids in the here and now, not in the what ifs!

IMO no child is abused because of alcoholism, any person who is abusive to a child is a violent person.Alcoholism doesn't make a person violent and in that situation I pity the children who have had violence in their lives.

Neglect is a different thing, an alcoholic is unable in most cases to look after themselves let alone children, the illness infects your brain to the point where your every waking moment and often your dreams are consumed with the thought of securing your next drink, the compulsion to drink when you are an alcoholic is so strong that it over rides every thought process in your mind and neglecting yourself and others around you is inevitable.

Although an alcoholic can be violent so can somebody who is not an alcoholic, as I already said alcoholism doesn't make a person violent. Alcoholism has many symptoms but being violent or being a waster are not symptoms, they are symptoms of something else worse than alcoholism.

In answer to the OP's question, I don't judge an alcoholic because I am one. I haven't drank in a long time but I am still an alcoholic, I can only have sympathy for someone who still in the grips of alcoholism. I do however judge harshly anyone who drinks and becomes violent as a result of their own stupidity, these people have a problem with excessive drinking, they don't have a problem with alcoholism.

scamalert

Depends if the person who is addicted is aggressive,and basically a scum then yes i hate these scavengers and wish them the worst.But theres a type of people who are total alcoholics and addicts but manage to keep their jobs or at least unction in manner that doesnt interfere with others life,and for those people i feel sorry,but most people keep a blind eye on them instead.

cometogether

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I choose not to.

Yeah but I'm not sure you can really compare alcohol and heroin in that sense, only a tiny chunk of the population take heroin, but at the same time only a tiny proportion of the (adult) population drink alcohol. The fact that alcohol is so socially acceptable and condoned in this country means that most alcoholics will have drank at first due to the fact that its the norm and societal pressures, whereas a heroin user actually has to go outside of the law and seek it out.

mattjack

maiden wrote: »

It wasnt intended to be a smart comment, everyone is entitled to their pain, but if a child is abused or neglected because of it then its a whole different ball game imo

I live with these kids in the here and now, not in the what ifs!

I'm just wondering Maiden , how much of the child's history are you told about before you foster ?

I know there are different categories of foster care .. four or five I think.

I know from my own employment about 30 to 40 % of kids in foster care are from a family background of addiction, but generally attempts are made to put kids into family foster care first i.e. another relative takes the children.

I think the figure in foster care in Ireland is about 6000,between 1800 and 2400 from addiction problem families.

J Mysterio

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

Thinly veiled i'm an alcoholic thread.

You're the reason that a thread was created to get 'thinly veiled' banned.

No, that predated my comment.